201 réponses à ce sujet

[SpiffsGhost]

I want to start by saying that I don't think anyone is wrong for choosing whichever ending they chose (my favorite color is blue, but sadly it's the only ending I will never choose...luckily I'm not missing much). I'll briefly run through why I didn't choose the others first, but the core of why I chose synthesis is that it essentially saves the most people, and is logically the best solution to the cycle of order and chaos. You can stop reading now if you're already filling in the quick post with a flame.

With Control, the issue of organics and synthetics still exists and will inevitably lead to the destruction of one or the other, or possibly an eventual synthesis. It is also likely that Sheperd will lose his/her humanity/morality over time being beamed up into the Reaper ether. You've just introduced a bias into the system, and depending on your choices as a human, you may see that certain species get advantages (i.e. you bombard species X from orbit because you want to protect species Y, that's an unnatural bias). Sheploo may be a legendary soldier, but he is not perfect, and I honestly don't think anyone could handle being in control of such power over the millenia.

Destroy is nice, but after talking with the catalyst I found it narrow-minded. You've been fighting to destroy this threat, but you only understand it as a threat because the Reapers are trying to effectively erase you from the galaxy (that's understandable, can't blame you there!). But what we learn, and what has been hinted at throughout the series, is that the Reapers are a part of something much larger than we are. The Reapers are not the threat to our existence...WE are! You're probably telling yourself right now that I'm indoctrinated, but leaving organics to our own devices will inevitably lead to the cycle running unchecked, and there will never be peace. Not to mention that you effectively wipe the Geth (a lifeform you may or may not care about) from the galaxy, and crush Joker's wet dream. Because of this, you are effectively holding a bias towards organics, which you may have (and honestly that's okay! You're organic!)

Synthesis allows Sheperd's sacrifice to actually mean something, and leave an imprint on every race that he/she cares about. It effectively saves every race in the galaxy (including the Reapers, which are now a part of the galactic community). It provides a clean slate with the Citadel and Mass Relays gone, but it doesn't mean EPIC FAIL. With the synthesis comes a new way of thinking, and a release of everything that holds organics and synthetics back. It eliminates all biases towards any race and allows for the galaxy to maintain diversity, but at the same time become a cohesive unit. The universe is full of galaxies, and who's to say we won't eventually make our way to one of them? Synthesis looks beyond our small view of our individuality within the confines of a galaxy we still don't fully understand. It looks to forward progress, pushing away the struggles that keeps life from accelerating at exponential potential (war, hunger, species bias, etc.). The Geth want to feel organic so badly, and organics don't want to die or want a better way of life so they fill themselves with synthetic material (nanomachines!). It makes sense to let everyone get what they want. Ultimately it is the "everybody wins" scenario, and if you think Sheperd wouldn't have to give up everything (his/her life) to get that scenario then you've missed the unfathomable scale of this war.

My decision, of course, is not necessarily the right one. But for the reasons above, it is the right choice for me. You are more than welcome to disagree. That's why I love this game.

- Spiff

[Aurica]

Zoedoll wrote...

Because I was so confused and disorientated by the sudden appearance of a deus ex machina that I stumbled forwards into the light and didn't realise I had to go in a different direction to actually destroy the Reapers

This... :\\

[Shock n Awe]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...
 only  valid reason I can see for choosing Synthesis is that you completely believe what the Starchild is saying, 

I chose synth, and yes i did believe everything he told me. 

Why?

Because your are forced to take him at his word. In that the game made a huge error. 

If the star child can lie, then why would i believe him when he says shooting this red thing would kill all the reapers and himself. Why would it tell me how to kill it. Why could it not be lying about destroy, and be trying to get you to blow up the power conduit on the right that feeds power to the console on the left, which is where you could make your actual choices from. 

See, to engage the scene at all you have to assume the catalyst is telling the truth, there in lies the true problem with the ending. 

Okay, maybe when I use words like 'believe what the Catalyst is saying', I don't mean to say I think it's lying. I suppose it would be more clear to say "do you agree with the Starchild's assertion that synthetic life will certainly wipe out all organic life in the galaxy". 

It is not a question of whether i believe it though. I know that sounds strange but hear me out. 

In my personal experience in the game, everything that happens says the catalyst is wrong. EDI, peace with the quarians and the geth. Overlord. However my view is based on personal experience of my cycle. The catalyst, the entire reaper system was created for a reason, and based on their experience over hundreds of cycles since that reason was to them solid.  If in their experience 999 out of 1000 machine races tried to wipe out their masters then my accomplishments dont mean jack, because the geth turn out to be in the catalysts experience an exception to the rule which does not break the necessity for the rule and which may have happened before. 

The crucible was created for the sole purpose of offering an alternate set of solutions to the organics of a cycle to the problem the reapers were created to solve. Two of those choices do not destroy the reapers. This shows that the problem the reapers were meant to fix was considered a valid one, even by those who thought up the crucible.

Destroy is a short term solution. It does not solve the problem.

Control is not a solution. It simply passes the task of dealing with the problem directly into the player characters hands. It is now your responsibility to use the reapers to prevent synthetic life wiping out organic life. You may decide to wipe out synthetic life whereever it appears. You may decide to shepard the new machines created by a civilisation to a place of safety , you may choose to do anything, but you will still have to do it. And you wont be able to do it without bloodshed.

Synth as presented removes the distinction between organic and synthetic life. It removes the grounds for prejudice that allows organics who create synthetics to declare.. This is not a person. This thing has no soul. This thing has no rights. Will there still be war, and hate and death in the galaxy, yes. There is just one less reason for it. 

Until the new organic-synthetic hybrids create new, pure synthetics who destroy them.

[tractrpl]

My main problem is that it seems to work by magic though.

Exactly right. However, ALL the endings, including the destroy ending, work a little like magic. The power of the crucible doesn't seem enough to truly kill them, and if it does, how does it NOT destroy all life on earth, if not in the whole galaxy? How does it kill ONLY synthetic life without killing or badly irradiating organic life as well? How does it kill synthetic life without destroying all spaceships and tools that organics by now depend on for survival? It sounds like a "destroy all life in the galaxy" option or as close as you can get to one. Controlling the reapers sounds more realistic, but if each "is a nation, independent", then how can you really control them? Do you just disconnect the intelligence from it's bodily functions, like indoctrination or husks do? And how do you prevent them from eventually regaining some control over themselves like Fai Dan, Saren, and The Illusive Man eventually did? However, the blue ending is most plausible, so that's what I chose.

[Berty213]

1.25 , this is why I chose Synthesis, I got confused. Anyway I'm off to bed, so if anyone has a reply for me I will get back to you in the morning, goodnight all

Modifié par Berty213, 07 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[BurningArmor]

I played all three endings.

I considered the Control ending the hardest to stomach.  After all, Shepard has to die to get one, and only one command, for the Reapers to follow.  There is nothing to keep the Reapers from coming back the next day.  Add to that the bit about the Jump Relays are all destroyed, and you can see Organic life can then be destroyed piece meal by Harbinger leading the Reapers back.

The Destroy ending is reasonable, but terrible, in the fact that Shepard has orders in hand to destroy the Reapers at any cost.  Even if it costs Organics their Geth allies and it costs Shepard EDI, the closest thing Shepard has known to a daughter.  It is questionable whether or not Shepard has a serious chance to live in this ending, but Starchild is definitly destroyed.  The Jump Relays still blow up here too.  There is also the probability that future generations of organics will again create AI's.

The Synthesis ending I refer to as the Peacemaker ending.  A lack of trust makes this a tough choice.  Yep, Shepard dies here too for a chance to unify the universe so there will be no more war because of organic / AI differences.  It is not to say that there will not be war.  It just means that there will not be war for the organic / AI differences.  People have accused Shepard of being worse than a mass rapist for doing this bit of evolution.  Maybe, but it should also be considered that people put Shepard on the battlefield to change their future; to stop the Reapers from killing everyone to prevent the Reapers from making more Reapers for the next cycle.  It should also be noted that organics and AI's both keep their general form with mostly internal changes.  Oh yes, the Jump Relays go boom here too.

I think what makes the ME3 end so hard to take is that there is no clear cut victory here.  All choices smack of being only short term and extremely costly.  One is left feeling like Shepard has been told to go to Hell for his efforts.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I have a philosophical issue with overwriting everyone's DNA without their knowledge or permission. Hence it wasn't the "best" ending for me, even if it would ensure peace. I keep remembering a conversation with Mordin about limitations and advancement. And what doesn't make sense to me about it is what purpose does it serve to destroy the mass relays?

So many unanswered questions about synthesis. Since it overwrites the DNA, does it create a state where this is the final state life is in? So does this mean that the children remain as children? Destroying the mass relays keeps the families apart. Or doesn't that matter anymore? So this isn't the best ending at all.

None of the endings are the best. They all suck. The logic of the starchild is flawed indeed.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Because even if you destroy or control the Reapers, your cycle will inevitably bring worse fates on themselves.

I am curious as to how Synthesis addresses Synthesees that create life.

[tractrpl]

A synthesis ending will likely happen, given enough time. The blue ending, and even the red ending, gives you that time, without forcing it on you. I chose the blue ending because you don't have to kill you synthetic friends to do so.

[vurtual3]

I like others apparently chose it because I crawled in a straight line at the end of a mammoth session without really thinking. Re the AI saying synthetics will inevitably wipe out organics,I took that to mean that organics will always try to wipe out synthetics and lose. I thought it wasn't neccesarily right about that but probably believed it due to it's own experiences a very very long time ago when its species nearly wiped out organic life (it's creators) and then set up the reaping system to ensure that organics wouldn't go extinct before they were capable of not living in a perpetual state of war. Humanity (Shep specifically) by leading the first cycle to reach the catalyst(with aid from previous cycles and only cos we got all organics working together) earns the right to break the cycle. Not saying I loved the excecution of it (or the way it felt) and I think it's too vague and has too many inconsistencies but I don't see why so many see it as worse than destroy or control. Shep has been synthetic since the start of ME2 it didn't stop him/her being a person and Edi's clearly portrayed as a person too in 3 . All the endings make my head hurt tbh and at least I can get synthesis without playing bloody mp with seriously relatively under powered characters just to get my ems up 400 points or whatever!

[Asuka Bianchini]

Because I thought it was the teleport beam back to london ... (I'm serious... had no sleep for a while due to playing... and all that nonsense of space jesus made me dizzy)

[Shakaale]

SpiffsGhost wrote...

I want to start by saying that I don't think anyone is wrong for choosing whichever ending they chose (my favorite color is blue, but sadly it's the only ending I will never choose...luckily I'm not missing much). I'll briefly run through why I didn't choose the others first, but the core of why I chose synthesis is that it essentially saves the most people, and is logically the best solution to the cycle of order and chaos. You can stop reading now if you're already filling in the quick post with a flame.

With Control, the issue of organics and synthetics still exists and will inevitably lead to the destruction of one or the other, or possibly an eventual synthesis. It is also likely that Sheperd will lose his/her humanity/morality over time being beamed up into the Reaper ether. You've just introduced a bias into the system, and depending on your choices as a human, you may see that certain species get advantages (i.e. you bombard species X from orbit because you want to protect species Y, that's an unnatural bias). Sheploo may be a legendary soldier, but he is not perfect, and I honestly don't think anyone could handle being in control of such power over the millenia.

Destroy is nice, but after talking with the catalyst I found it narrow-minded. You've been fighting to destroy this threat, but you only understand it as a threat because the Reapers are trying to effectively erase you from the galaxy (that's understandable, can't blame you there!). But what we learn, and what has been hinted at throughout the series, is that the Reapers are a part of something much larger than we are. The Reapers are not the threat to our existence...WE are! You're probably telling yourself right now that I'm indoctrinated, but leaving organics to our own devices will inevitably lead to the cycle running unchecked, and there will never be peace. Not to mention that you effectively wipe the Geth (a lifeform you may or may not care about) from the galaxy, and crush Joker's wet dream. Because of this, you are effectively holding a bias towards organics, which you may have (and honestly that's okay! You're organic!)

Synthesis allows Sheperd's sacrifice to actually mean something, and leave an imprint on every race that he/she cares about. It effectively saves every race in the galaxy (including the Reapers, which are now a part of the galactic community). It provides a clean slate with the Citadel and Mass Relays gone, but it doesn't mean EPIC FAIL. With the synthesis comes a new way of thinking, and a release of everything that holds organics and synthetics back. It eliminates all biases towards any race and allows for the galaxy to maintain diversity, but at the same time become a cohesive unit. The universe is full of galaxies, and who's to say we won't eventually make our way to one of them? Synthesis looks beyond our small view of our individuality within the confines of a galaxy we still don't fully understand. It looks to forward progress, pushing away the struggles that keeps life from accelerating at exponential potential (war, hunger, species bias, etc.). The Geth want to feel organic so badly, and organics don't want to die or want a better way of life so they fill themselves with synthetic material (nanomachines!). It makes sense to let everyone get what they want. Ultimately it is the "everybody wins" scenario, and if you think Sheperd wouldn't have to give up everything (his/her life) to get that scenario then you've missed the unfathomable scale of this war.

My decision, of course, is not necessarily the right one. But for the reasons above, it is the right choice for me. You are more than welcome to disagree. That's why I love this game.

- Spiff

I was going to post a long explanation as to why I see the green ending as the best in regard to long-temr consequences. 
Then I saw you already did

Synthesis, basically, has the most far-reaching consequences.
Shepard's presence here, before the Crucible, is already an end to the SOLUTION that was the Reapers. But only the Green will address the ROOT of the problem.

Something is quite interesting to note : some people believe the red and blue choices are inverted and rely on that to spread the Indoctrination Theory.
I say, they aren't inverted a bit.
First, let me say that, in my country, Paragon is translated as "Conciliant", and Renegade as "Pragmatic".

What is the Red ending? You destroy the reapers. That's what you came for, isn't it? Oh, it will also destroy the Geths, providing you didn't already killed them all. Well, too bad! I'm here to destroy the Reapers, blowing this tube up will destroy them - I'm being Pragmatic, here. It's also "renegade" because you don't really give a damn to what will happen to Synthetics, should they still be alongside you.

Blue ending? Hm. Maybe I shouldn't destroy them. They could help reconstruct all that they have destroyed. Or I just can't bring myself to the idea of killing the Geth. If I control the Reapers, if I decide to join - become, in a way, the new Citadel/Catalyst, a lot of things will be preserved. By the way, this is the sole ending in which the Citadel isn't destroyed ! I'm "conciliant" because everyone gets to live, for now. I'm paragon because I sacrifice myself for the greater good. I'm still a bit short-sighted, but hey, I/we will find a solution in due time to the Cycle, when it will loop back...

Green ending? A both of two worlds, really. So, here, I can adress the root. End the Cycle. I will die, sure. Quite the Paragon. I am also forcing every living things, Organics or Synthetics, into becoming something they probably didn't ask for, or probably don't want to become. I'm making a choice for everyone, here, without their agreement, which is quite renegade.
But everything I did so far will only matter if I do that.

[T-Raks]

Yeah, I'm surprised that not everyone sees that this ending is the reaper ending. You give in to the reapers, because this is exactly, what the reapers are trying to do all the time. It might be that the writers of ME3 disagree, but the reapers are merging organic and synthetic life. They are doing it against the will of all organic life, but my big question for this ending is: how can Shepard get every organic to merge free willingly to merge with synthetics?

He can't. So what will happen? I have no idea, what the writers thought, but my best guess is a new organicsyntheticsuperrace made of Shepard, the reapers and every race the reapers ever harvested that will wipe out everyone else in the galaxy that doesn't want to merge. I mean, organics merging with synthetics because they want is truly the worst idea I have ever heard. And Shepard making that decision for everyone (if possible in Mass Effect space magic) is even worse.

But, it's a good plot line if Shepard fights indoctrination in the scene with the catalyst which I think he does. And I don't mean in the sense, that this plot is not real like the ITheorists would suggest, but just that the catalyst is trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

Modifié par T-Raks, 07 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[T-Raks]

The funny thing to me reading a lot of comments not only in this thread is how many people accidentally chose the wrong ending for their journey because they didn't really know which side represents which ending.

I accidentally went to the blue ending at first, thinking I would destroy the reapers there.

[T-Raks]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I have a philosophical issue with overwriting everyone's DNA without their knowledge or permission. Hence it wasn't the "best" ending for me, even if it would ensure peace. I keep remembering a conversation with Mordin about limitations and advancement. And what doesn't make sense to me about it is what purpose does it serve to destroy the mass relays?

So many unanswered questions about synthesis. Since it overwrites the DNA, does it create a state where this is the final state life is in? So does this mean that the children remain as children? Destroying the mass relays keeps the families apart. Or doesn't that matter anymore? So this isn't the best ending at all.

None of the endings are the best. They all suck. The logic of the starchild is flawed indeed.

How do you overwrite the DNA? With something like radiation? Yeah, that's really the best ending: I transform the galaxy into mutant valley.

[ardensia]

**Er... sorry, had post, got eaten by varren. Will attempt a repost when I've caught up on the last few hours.

Modifié par ardensia, 07 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[Shadow2G]

Because it seemed like the least genocidal option with the best chance of actually working in a WTF situation in which there was nowhere near enough information to make an informed decision. Then, as the credits rolled, I realized that after fighting to preserve diversity in the galaxy and after having seen the geth and quarians enter into a very positive and interesting voluntary symbiosis, I had just forcibly homogenized the galaxy, and had done it with out anyone's consent.

Yeah. That left me feeling like war criminal on an epic scale.

Not fun at all

[Shakaale]

T-Raks wrote...

Yeah, I'm surprised that not everyone sees that this ending is the reaper ending. You give in to the reapers, because this is exactly, what the reapers are trying to do all the time. It might be that the writers of ME3 disagree, but the reapers are merging organic and synthetic life. They are doing it against the will of all organic life, but my big question for this ending is: how can Shepard get every organic to merge free willingly to merge with synthetics?

He can't. So what will happen? I have no idea, what the writers thought, but my best guess is a new organicsyntheticsuperrace made of Shepard, the reapers and every race the reapers ever harvested that will wipe out everyone else in the galaxy that doesn't want to merge. I mean, organics merging with synthetics because they want is truly the worst idea I have ever heard. And Shepard making that decision for everyone (if possible in Mass Effect space magic) is even worse.

But, it's a good plot line if Shepard fights indoctrination in the scene with the catalyst which I think he does. And I don't mean in the sense, that this plot is not real like the ITheorists would suggest, but just that the catalyst is trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

Actually you're missing a small point, which Shepard adress the godchild : "we'd rather keep our own form". The Reapers harvest the DNA, the essence, of the Organic beings. They stocked that in them, they, virtually, turn the races into Reapers. The goal is preservation. ( let's say, shall we, for the sake of argument, that there is no manipulation from the godchild - that's what I believe anyway ).

But Organics do not want to be preserved into those giant squid husks. And that's the main difference between the Reapers' ways and the Green ending : people got to keep their bodies, on the outside. On the inside, it's probably not very different either. Think, if you will, Cylon, in Battlestar Galactica. They are the perfect examples.
As such, the green ending is a way to keep the reaper's goal which was preservation, while changing the mean to reach this goal. While also adressing the root of the problem, which was the neverending cycle of destruction of the Organics fathers by their Synthetics Child ( Geth were an example of that - they were trying to destroy the Quarians who originated them. The fact they were only responding to a threat of exctinction is caduc here ).

You also presume the Organics/Synthetics lifeforms will have a choice. They do not. This is why I consider this ending to be both Paragon and Renegade. You force this modification into every living things. How? By using the Mass Relays power. You know, the big green Bubble. It hits you, bam, you're "reprogrammed". Green things on your skin, green glowing eyes ; blue PCB on the leaves, etc. Everything is now both Organic and Synthetic.
People should not read too far into this . Yeah, it's "magic". I have no problem with that. It's technology that goes beyond the understanding of anyone. And this is often called "magic", actually.

TL:DR : green ending forces the modification on everyone. It's better than being turned into a giand flying robot-squid. It also stop the destruction cycle forever.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Control ending goes against both the unity and diversity themes of the entire storyline...and basically invalidates everything you did in the previous 5 minutes and renders Anderson's death meaningless. Destroy ending goes against both the diversity and unity themes of the entire storyline and renders saving the Geth pointless and meaningless. Syntheis invalidates a chunk of ME1 buuuut at least it only goes against one of the underlying themes. i chose it as the lesser of the three evils...although all endings are terrible and there really is no true "player choice" since all endings are basically the same.

[whitey4444]

Delta_S wrote...

I didn't know you could walk up to the sides of the platform, so I just went straight ahead.

This. I was waiting for the choice to occur, before I realised I'd actually chosen one.

[Slash1667]

GreyGhost1989 wrote...

I didn't choose it, but the appeal seems to be that it is the perfect "solution" to the problem.

Reapers stop reaping, all races come together in unity, no more sickness, synthetics have feelings, etc. etc.

Only problem is that the Relays still blow up.

I seriously feel that the only reason people dislike this ending is because they have had the indoctrination theory beat into their heads so much that they think it is fact.

I didn't like it because I reminded me too much of Saren just like Control reminded me of TIM. I fought against their philosophies for 2 games. Doing either one just didn't sit right with me.

[T-Raks]

Shakaale wrote...


Actually you're missing a small point, which Shepard adress the godchild : "we'd rather keep our own form". The Reapers harvest the DNA, the essence, of the Organic beings. They stocked that in them, they, virtually, turn the races into Reapers. The goal is preservation. ( let's say, shall we, for the sake of argument, that there is no manipulation from the godchild - that's what I believe anyway ).

But Organics do not want to be preserved into those giant squid husks. And that's the main difference between the Reapers' ways and the Green ending : people got to keep their bodies, on the outside. On the inside, it's probably not very different either. Think, if you will, Cylon, in Battlestar Galactica. They are the perfect examples.
As such, the green ending is a way to keep the reaper's goal which was preservation, while changing the mean to reach this goal. While also adressing the root of the problem, which was the neverending cycle of destruction of the Organics fathers by their Synthetics Child ( Geth were an example of that - they were trying to destroy the Quarians who originated them. The fact they were only responding to a threat of exctinction is caduc here ).

You also presume the Organics/Synthetics lifeforms will have a choice. They do not. This is why I consider this ending to be both Paragon and Renegade. You force this modification into every living things. How? By using the Mass Relays power. You know, the big green Bubble. It hits you, bam, you're "reprogrammed". Green things on your skin, green glowing eyes ; blue PCB on the leaves, etc. Everything is now both Organic and Synthetic.
People should not read too far into this . Yeah, it's "magic". I have no problem with that. It's technology that goes beyond the understanding of anyone. And this is often called "magic", actually.

TL:DR : green ending forces the modification on everyone. It's better than being turned into a giand flying robot-squid. It also stop the destruction cycle forever.

I really might have missed how the writers wanted that sythethis end to be, but when Shepard says "we'd rather keep our own form", he/she doesn't mean our outside, but our soul, our free will etc., so to decide to "overwrite" the DNA of every organic is absolutely contrary to Shepard's beliefs.

In the end - one way or the other - synthesis is creating a new kind against the will of every free mind. That's to me the reaper solution. Doesn't matter if you get turned into a Husk, Banshee or whatever comes out of the radiation therapy. And I really don't even get how a DNA change makes a living organic part machine?

[clipped_wolf]

 I like green?  I was attracted to the bright lights?  IDK.

[Slash1667]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Because Synthesis is actually Shepard impregnating every man, woman, and toaster in the galaxy. That's good enough for me.

Ummmm.....you see.....We're talking about Shepard here, not James T. Kirk

(Sorry Pandaman, I just had to go there)

[T-Raks]

And another big question: how become synthetics partly organic due to the force of the crucible?