322 réponses à ce sujet

[DevilBeast]

AlanC9 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Exactly. Look at the reaction yesterday. Most people in the retake movement had one thing to say:

We don't need the endings clarifified. That's an insulting implication that we are too stupid to understand the endings. We want NEW ENDINGS.

I never quite understood what, specifically, an acceptable new ending or endings would have been. Did Retake have some sort of positive vision that I just missed? (I get what the "happy ending" crowd wanted, but I thought Retake wasn't supposed to be that.)

Yes, it´s strange. I remember seeing, in the beginning, many who said they wanted "clarification" and a proper epilogue. Now, it seems to be a complete rewrite, which honoestly would never happen no matter how much money you keep in your wallet..

[freshtoothpaste]

And many people are now talking about voting with their wallets and all, which in honesty is in my opinion the only way to actually hold any sort of line and make any difference.

Great point.

Bye.

[Justin2k]

DevilBeast wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Exactly. Look at the reaction yesterday. Most people in the retake movement had one thing to say:

We don't need the endings clarifified. That's an insulting implication that we are too stupid to understand the endings. We want NEW ENDINGS.

I never quite understood what, specifically, an acceptable new ending or endings would have been. Did Retake have some sort of positive vision that I just missed? (I get what the "happy ending" crowd wanted, but I thought Retake wasn't supposed to be that.)

Yes, it´s strange. I remember seeing, in the beginning, many who said they wanted "clarification" and a proper epilogue. Now, it seems to be a complete rewrite, which honoestly would never happen no matter how much money you keep in your wallet..

I distinctly remember a thread of about 20 pages about wanting closure for characters.  Bioware promised that yesterday.

Many people do seem to be happy with the announcement made.  Its normal that retake would like to pretend there are still 60k upset fans, but in general i think a large amount of that are waiting to see the DLC before screaming.

In general I personally think that more people were upset they didn't see what happened to Tali/Garrus etc than they were that there were plot holes, although i may be wrong.

[Chrillze]

Justin2k wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Exactly. Look at the reaction yesterday. Most people in the retake movement had one thing to say:

We don't need the endings clarifified. That's an insulting implication that we are too stupid to understand the endings. We want NEW ENDINGS.

I never quite understood what, specifically, an acceptable new ending or endings would have been. Did Retake have some sort of positive vision that I just missed? (I get what the "happy ending" crowd wanted, but I thought Retake wasn't supposed to be that.)

Yes, it´s strange. I remember seeing, in the beginning, many who said they wanted "clarification" and a proper epilogue. Now, it seems to be a complete rewrite, which honoestly would never happen no matter how much money you keep in your wallet..

I distinctly remember a thread of about 20 pages about wanting closure for characters.  Bioware promised that yesterday.

Many people do seem to be happy with the announcement made.  Its normal that retake would like to pretend there are still 60k upset fans, but in general i think a large amount of that are waiting to see the DLC before screaming.

In general I personally think that more people were upset they didn't see what happened to Tali/Garrus etc than they were that there were plot holes, although i may be wrong.

This is sooooo true

[Hyrist]

DevilBeast wrote...

Hmmm... Yes, you do have a point. I wonder though, if those who are now "satisfied" from the Retake movement are in the same boat as me?? That we didn´t demand a complete rewrite only a clarification??

Extended Cut should (and will in most cases) be judged on its own merits when it is releaced. Yes, it will satasfy more customers (perhaps even me) and lower the numbers of "ReTake"

But that's mainly because everyone has different standards to begin with, different desires on what they want fixed with the ending.

The question from me that stands is - why are multiple endings off the table? I am not opposed to having artistic endings but the concept of just appealing to one niche ending falls flat on its face in this sort of medium - which can usually thrive under the banner of multiple endings (and it is a banner that BioWare did wave for this game.)

[BeefoTheBold]

DevilBeast wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Exactly. Look at the reaction yesterday. Most people in the retake movement had one thing to say:

We don't need the endings clarifified. That's an insulting implication that we are too stupid to understand the endings. We want NEW ENDINGS.

I never quite understood what, specifically, an acceptable new ending or endings would have been. Did Retake have some sort of positive vision that I just missed? (I get what the "happy ending" crowd wanted, but I thought Retake wasn't supposed to be that.)

Yes, it´s strange. I remember seeing, in the beginning, many who said they wanted "clarification" and a proper epilogue. Now, it seems to be a complete rewrite, which honoestly would never happen no matter how much money you keep in your wallet..

Not hard to answer the question. Endings that deliver what was originally promised to us.

1. Endings where our choices throughout all three games MATTER. Right now, that is not the case. Things like the Rachni are completely disgarded. Save the council or let the die, who cares? Etc. Full paragon? Full renegade? Irrelevant.

2. A VARIETY of endings that actually look and play out differently. Not simply three differen colors of explosions and everything else identical.

3. The ability to have at least one ending that is achieved that isn't depressing as all hell with all the alien races stranded over a devastated Earth incapable of supporting them

4. Endings that make sense and are lore/canon consistent. Star child is not.

5. Endings that don't wrench control away from Shepard. 14 lines of dialog before Shep decides to accept the A-B-C- choices ahead of him instead of arguing with star child?

The endings are so bad that no amount of "clarifying" will make them good. They just are poorly written and make no sense. They're depressing and obviously mailed in by the amount of cutscenes that play out identically regardless of choice.

[BeefoTheBold]

Justin2k wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Exactly. Look at the reaction yesterday. Most people in the retake movement had one thing to say:

We don't need the endings clarifified. That's an insulting implication that we are too stupid to understand the endings. We want NEW ENDINGS.

I never quite understood what, specifically, an acceptable new ending or endings would have been. Did Retake have some sort of positive vision that I just missed? (I get what the "happy ending" crowd wanted, but I thought Retake wasn't supposed to be that.)

Yes, it´s strange. I remember seeing, in the beginning, many who said they wanted "clarification" and a proper epilogue. Now, it seems to be a complete rewrite, which honoestly would never happen no matter how much money you keep in your wallet..

I distinctly remember a thread of about 20 pages about wanting closure for characters.  Bioware promised that yesterday.

Many people do seem to be happy with the announcement made.  Its normal that retake would like to pretend there are still 60k upset fans, but in general i think a large amount of that are waiting to see the DLC before screaming.

In general I personally think that more people were upset they didn't see what happened to Tali/Garrus etc than they were that there were plot holes, although i may be wrong.

You do realize you're talking out of your *** right?

"Many people do seem to be happy with the announcement made"
"Its normal that retake would like to pretend tehre are still 60K upset fans, but in general I think..."

etc.

Your wanting the things you're stating as fact to be true does not make them so.

[Corbinus]

I am curious what others think about ending\\DLC

[ShinsFortress]

Hope that Bioware will remember what made them great in the first place.

"Probability of success? Slight." - Nordom.

[Well]

KingJason13 wrote...

...I'm still here because 14 year relationships are hard to get over, overnight...

Then you remember the Dev Corner.This is so much milder than that use to be.

[Justin2k]

Hyrist wrote...

The question from me that stands is - why are multiple endings off the table? I am not opposed to having artistic endings but the concept of just appealing to one niche ending falls flat on its face in this sort of medium - which can usually thrive under the banner of multiple endings (and it is a banner that BioWare did wave for this game.)

Not to disregard other points you have made but I do have one theory on that. 

One of the most disappointing things about me for ME3, and far more disappointing than the ending, was that I found

- Hostile Geth
- Udina as Councillor
- The Collector Base intact in cerberus hands
- a Turian, Asari and Salarian councillor
- Genophage cured
- Destiny Ascension in battle

I had reprogrammed the geth.  I had chosen Anderson as councillor.  I had destroyed the base, let the council die, destroyed the genophage data and the destiny asencion was wiped out.

Bioware were too optimistic with the amount of choices they gave in Mass Effect series.  While they gave reasons for this stuff happening, it was flimsy.  In ME1 letting the council die gives you the impression earth would take over the citadel.  It really doesnt work out that way.  There were far too many different variables for them to create a consistent game.

If there is to be a ME4 which seems to be rumored, it would be far easier to continue if ME3 ends the same way regardless for most players.

[Justin2k]

slyguy200 wrote...

 

Justin's banner is well deserved because to many of shepards fan's are glad about his death, i do not think that he is a true fan.

Shepard doesn't die lol.  You obviously didn't understand the ending.

[DevilBeast]

Oldbones2 wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

I think this clarifying DLC is a way to entice Retakers to buy future DLC (Omega, Map packs and such).

While some people think admitting they made a mistake is a weakness, I have always held that it is one of the bravest and most classy things a person can do.

And punishing other departments like the DA team, because of what the ME team did is classy too??

Dragon Age 2 was hardly a gem in my eyes.

And as I said before.  ME 3's ending sadened me, but it only convinced me that I need to be more careful about my purchases and never pre order again.

Then came the Bioware's response to their fans.

That made me made.  That made it personal.

If other branches have to be punished for Ray M.'s and other Bioware execs. actions then so be it.

Actually, I quite enjoyed DA2. But i´m not really a Dragon Age fan and as such I don´t think my opinon count as much in that department.

Still, the whole "punish all for the actions of few" does not seem very wise IMO.
But hey, you do whatever you want with your money. Personally, I buy a game if I think it´s a great game, no matter which company made it.

[Vaktathi]

Justin2k wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

 

Justin's banner is well deserved because to many of shepards fan's are glad about his death, i do not think that he is a true fan.

Shepard doesn't die lol.  You obviously didn't understand the ending.

The "well you just didn't understand it" defense is laughable.

Shepard usually dies. In at least one, Shepard very much does die and there's no question about it, in another, Shepard dies unless you have a high EMS and you see a half second inhale. In the last one, in might be a big more debateable but the Starchild still says you die.

Modifié par Vaktathi, 06 avril 2012 - 07:02 .

[AkiKishi]

[quote]Vaktathi wrote...
Shepard doesn't die lol.  You obviously didn't understand the ending.[/quote]The "well you just didn't understand it" defense is laughable.

Shepard usually dies. In at least one, Shepard very much does die and there's no question about it, in another, Shepard dies unless you have a high EMS and you see a half second inhale. In the last one, in might be a big more debateable but the Starchild still says you die.
[/quote]

Destroy should kill you much like pulling life support. Of course with all the plot holes floating around the ending anything could happen. But Shepard should either be killed on the spot, or die soon after because of circumstances.

[Farbautisonn]

Justin2k wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

 

Justin's banner is well deserved because to many of shepards fan's are glad about his death, i do not think that he is a true fan.

Shepard doesn't die lol.  You obviously didn't understand the ending.

/facedesk.

[Il Divo]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...
Shepard doesn't die lol.  You obviously didn't understand the ending.

The "well you just didn't understand it" defense is laughable.

Shepard usually dies. In at least one, Shepard very much does die and there's no question about it, in another, Shepard dies unless you have a high EMS and you see a half second inhale. In the last one, in might be a big more debateable but the Starchild still says you die.

Destroy should kill you much like pulling life support. Of course with all the plot holes floating around the ending anything could happen. But Shepard should either be killed on the spot, or die soon after because of circumstances.

Please save yourself the trouble.

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 avril 2012 - 07:14 .

[Peranor]

Im here because im... intrigued... I want to see how this ends. I want to follow what happens. Im curious how BioWare handles this. I've lost the interst in the game a long time ago. But not in the debacle surrounding it.

And also there is all the golden comedy that the ending fiasco has spawned!
The forum is filled with woderful videos and pictures. Never have i laughed so much at something has tragic as this

Modifié par anorling, 06 avril 2012 - 07:17 .

[Hyrist]

Justin2k wrote...

Hyrist wrote...

The question from me that stands is - why are multiple endings off the table? I am not opposed to having artistic endings but the concept of just appealing to one niche ending falls flat on its face in this sort of medium - which can usually thrive under the banner of multiple endings (and it is a banner that BioWare did wave for this game.)

Not to disregard other points you have made but I do have one theory on that. 

One of the most disappointing things about me for ME3, and far more disappointing than the ending, was that I found

- Hostile Geth
- Udina as Councillor
- The Collector Base intact in cerberus hands
- a Turian, Asari and Salarian councillor
- Genophage cured
- Destiny Ascension in battle

I had reprogrammed the geth.  I had chosen Anderson as councillor.  I had destroyed the base, let the council die, destroyed the genophage data and the destiny asencion was wiped out.

Bioware were too optimistic with the amount of choices they gave in Mass Effect series.  While they gave reasons for this stuff happening, it was flimsy.  In ME1 letting the council die gives you the impression earth would take over the citadel.  It really doesnt work out that way.  There were far too many different variables for them to create a consistent game.

If there is to be a ME4 which seems to be rumored, it would be far easier to continue if ME3 ends the same way regardless for most players.

Ok, I can see that aspect, but again, there can always be on cannonial ending that is declared. It might cause some upsetting ,but the degree is far less because people get to express their own 'personal story', and, given BioWare has the ability to moot out specific things thanks to time lapse. 

You might consiter it a cop-out, but in hindsight, chosing to lose the Destiny Ascention did net you a stronger Alliance fleet, and puting Anderson on the council did get your Specter Status restored (which allowed for a slightly different ME2 story.) Recognizing these choices did make your story more personal.

Now let me clarify further. What I'm looking for in DLC endings can be consitered something similar to the Paradox Endings in FFXIII, in which they're not canon to the 'true' ending, but it gives Headcanon players their own sence of closeure. They can even be Cannonial endings that result in similar, but unique outcomes.

For example: instead of using the Crucible conventionally, it becomes like a chain-lightning cannon that leaps from reaper to reaper, destorying all the ones in the Sol System and crippeling the reapers. The reapers, in responce, begin dismanteling the relays in an attempt to defend themselves. But eventually have to flee back into dark space, leaving the Relay Network crippeled, but not completely down.

Or a more cosmetic alternant ending, where it's Harbringer, and not god-child, explaining the Crucible to you and making an attempt to stop you from using it via similar means as Soverign-Saren. 

There are possiblities of addressing specific parts of the complaints without really harming the overall artistic ideal. It just seems as if BioWare does not want to explore these options.

[Vaktathi]

I'd have been pretty ok with shepard dying, I expected it, just not in the silly way it was done. Had shepard hit the console after Hackett telling him/her that the crucible wasn't firing and died from their injuries after that, sending out a surge of energy that brought the Reapers' kinetic barriers went down and the allied fleets could tear them apart (even the original normandy managed a clean through and through shot on Soveriegn once the barriers were down) and then glorious victory and a bittersweer epilogue, I'd have been fine with that.

Modifié par Vaktathi, 06 avril 2012 - 07:17 .

[Oldbones2]

Justin2k wrote...

Hyrist wrote...

The question from me that stands is - why are multiple endings off the table? I am not opposed to having artistic endings but the concept of just appealing to one niche ending falls flat on its face in this sort of medium - which can usually thrive under the banner of multiple endings (and it is a banner that BioWare did wave for this game.)

Not to disregard other points you have made but I do have one theory on that. 

One of the most disappointing things about me for ME3, and far more disappointing than the ending, was that I found

- Hostile Geth
- Udina as Councillor
- The Collector Base intact in cerberus hands
- a Turian, Asari and Salarian councillor
- Genophage cured
- Destiny Ascension in battle

I had reprogrammed the geth.  I had chosen Anderson as councillor.  I had destroyed the base, let the council die, destroyed the genophage data and the destiny asencion was wiped out.

Bioware were too optimistic with the amount of choices they gave in Mass Effect series.  While they gave reasons for this stuff happening, it was flimsy.  In ME1 letting the council die gives you the impression earth would take over the citadel.  It really doesnt work out that way.  There were far too many different variables for them to create a consistent game.

If there is to be a ME4 which seems to be rumored, it would be far easier to continue if ME3 ends the same way regardless for most players.

Yeah, hurr-fricken-ray Bioware gave us cookie cutter endings (like they promised they wouldn't) so they could sell us another game in two years.

That's not at all giving us a giant middle finger.


And the thing is even if the ending sucked I would have still bought ME 4 because I understand making a mistake and a just one month ago I bought Bioware product on brand alone.

[DevilBeast]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...
Exactly. Look at the reaction yesterday. Most people in the retake movement had one thing to say:

We don't need the endings clarifified. That's an insulting implication that we are too stupid to understand the endings. We want NEW ENDINGS.

I never quite understood what, specifically, an acceptable new ending or endings would have been. Did Retake have some sort of positive vision that I just missed? (I get what the "happy ending" crowd wanted, but I thought Retake wasn't supposed to be that.)

Yes, it´s strange. I remember seeing, in the beginning, many who said they wanted "clarification" and a proper epilogue. Now, it seems to be a complete rewrite, which honoestly would never happen no matter how much money you keep in your wallet..

Not hard to answer the question. Endings that deliver what was originally promised to us.

1. Endings where our choices throughout all three games MATTER. Right now, that is not the case. Things like the Rachni are completely disgarded. Save the council or let the die, who cares? Etc. Full paragon? Full renegade? Irrelevant.

2. A VARIETY of endings that actually look and play out differently. Not simply three differen colors of explosions and everything else identical.

3. The ability to have at least one ending that is achieved that isn't depressing as all hell with all the alien races stranded over a devastated Earth incapable of supporting them

4. Endings that make sense and are lore/canon consistent. Star child is not.

5. Endings that don't wrench control away from Shepard. 14 lines of dialog before Shep decides to accept the A-B-C- choices ahead of him instead of arguing with star child?

The endings are so bad that no amount of "clarifying" will make them good. They just are poorly written and make no sense. They're depressing and obviously mailed in by the amount of cutscenes that play out identically regardless of choice.

Actually, after thinking about the nature of the endings over and over I think I might be able to understand them now. I probably wouldn´t have chosen that kind of ending if it was me who wrote the story, but I can accept them; the starchild, his argument (and Javik´s. Notice how similar his argument regarding the whole synthetics vs. organics is to starchild´s) and the whole order vs. chaos dilemma. And I also think I undertsand what is actually happening to the people who are just to make new reapers. I don´t actually think they die. 

Anyway, I won´t bore you with my understanding of the ending. Suffice to say I look forward to this (somewhat dreaded) DLC and I hope it will provide a proper epilogue since that is still what bothers me the most. 
I mean, it´s Mass Effect not Mulholland Drive.

But again; this is just my personal opinon, just as you have yours