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Does anyone else feel sorry for Casey Hudson?


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#226
hard-case

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Veggiesofmanycolors wrote...

He and Bioware have worked so hard to appease angry fans with the ending.  He even went so far as to make the clarification DLC free but now everyone is being so mean to him.  It must feel so terrible to have your fans turn their backs on you even though you try so hard to win back their support.


I don't hold any ill will towards the man, indeed I respect his many accomplishments, but I don't feel much sympathy at all.

In the end, both Mr. Hudson and Mr. Walters are receiving EXACTLY what they desired. They specifically intended for there to be "lots of speculation from everyone", and they received it in spades. Having done no focus testing, and if Final Hours is to be believed even cutting out most of the writing staff from the development of the ending (not to mention the faux pas of leaving the ending to the last minute), it's not as if either of them are unfamiliar with the often tumultuous relationship between game developers and gaming fans in general, nor with Mass Effect fans in particular. If they lacked the foresight to consider the unintended consequences of their conscious decisions, that's their failing and being the seasoned writers/developers they are, they certainly are experienced enough to have been able to predict the possibity of how people are currently reacting.

"He" even went so far as to make the clarification DLC free? Any proof on that? Since we're swapping suppositions here, I'd bet a chunk of change that decision was made in the PR / Marketing departments. Mostly for reasons that have been hashed over in the dozens of threads since the announcement. 

I'd actually argue that the fans have not realistically heard anything, much less anything substantive, from anyone on the development team whatsoever. When you look at the messages (I hesitate to call them conversations, as that implies a state of duplex communications), the fans have for all intents and purposes really only heard from the PR department. Which is the further reason I don't feel sorry for Mr. Hudson, and why I disagree with the assertion of  "try so hard to win back their support". If they really were trying that hard, then they wouldn't have immediately punted everything over to PR and ran silent/deep. They'd have been at least somewhat engaged in the process. If they really were trying that hard, then the BioWare PR department wouldn't still be calling the shots at this point in the game.  Nor would they have dropped the "No ending/ending DLC discussion at PAX" hammer at nearly the last minute.

To be blunt.....they intentionally set in motion the events that led to the current mess, and are more than experienced enough to have been able to predict it. Not sure why that deserves sympathy. If you get bitten by a dog, you won't garner much sympathy when that event started with "well, I did kick him in the nose"...

Since we're still swapping suppositions, I'm honestly left with the impression that they hold more than a small amount of contempt for the fans who have issue with the ending, maybe even stoked a bit by the embers of ill will regarding the script leak brouhaha late last year. Which, to be perfectly honest, they have every right to feel that way. I just wish (and if this were two years or more ago I would have expected) that they could at least be open and honest about it, instead of hiding behind their PR department or tired claims of "artistic integrity".

#227
Delta_S

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No, and I don't see any reason why I should.

#228
Gemini1179

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Veggiesofmanycolors wrote...

He and Bioware have worked so hard to appease angry fans with the ending.  He even went so far as to make the clarification DLC free but now everyone is being so mean to him.  It must feel so terrible to have your fans turn their backs on you even though you try so hard to win back their support.


I do feel sorry for Casey Hudson but not because you think I SHOULD feel sorry for him. Tacking a 'free' label on what is going to amount to extra cut scenes is not absolution.

I feel sorry for Casey Hudson because he and Mac Walters CLEARLY panicked in the final months of ME3's development. They went from wildly diverging endings to "I know, lots of speculation from everyone!". It was lazy and they were burnt out. That's it. But they still released an unfinished game. Because they HAD to. This is why I feel bad for Casey Hudson. So much as Mr. Gamble might be a producer, Hudson is still the driving force behind Mass Effect and he is the one in between the fan community and the higher-ups at BioWare/EA.

Personally? I think they game should be completely re-done from the time you reach Earth. It just feels "DA2 Act 3" rushed and with an amazing amount of lost potential.

Do I care about the non-sensical plot holes? Sure. Do I hate the idea that the Mass Relays get destroyed and from the information we have in game, it seems like most advanced life in the galaxy will be devastated? Yes. Do I hate the idea that NO MATTER WHAT I DID, I can't have a re-uniting ending with my LI? Yes. (No, I don't think there ONLY should be happy endings.)

BUT, when I discussed why I disliked the ending with a friend of mine after we both finished the game, I said my depression stemmed mostly from the fact that it was not PERSONALIZED to my Shepard's life. I wanted to see cutscenes of Jack being the leader my Shep thought she could be, I wanted to see the Krogan charging in to save a Turian platoon, I wanted to see the Rachni Queen decimating some Brutes, I wanted to see a Quarian draging a damaged Geth from the fighting BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I HAD WORKED FOR FOR 3 GAMES.

If this new Extended Cut business will add personality to the endings so that cutscenes reflect your Shepard's impact on the universe of Mass Effect, then for me, despite the literary... foolishness of it all, it will retain some replayability.

So, I guess, all there is is to wait and see. I'm wondering if they are going to do nothing but release free DLC until the Extended Cut DLC is ready because they figure that no one would be buying it anyway and they want people primed for paid DLC and a nice healthy dose of "we have already given you so much for free" to back it all up.

#229
nicksmi56

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I would if he didn't lie. I'm not even trying to offend him. That's exactly what he did :/

#230
shrimprahmen

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well he said things would be in game and they didnt end up that way...probobly should have not said anything at all. the ravenous gaming community nit picks everything. he should have known better. but i imagine he knew there would be some flak. either way he and all the team there created somthing that pulled at the heart stings of a fickle community..hate them or love them....they made this fantasy universe possible for that i say thank you....even though i am fickle..and hate the ending...i get it..but i dont like it.

#231
Fenderbaum

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Turniproot or Busomjack or whatever your calling yourself these days...vegetablebanana's...whatever...

He lied. Plain and simple. And if there's one thing I hate more than anything, it's people who lie.

So, no.

#232
Peranor

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hard-case wrote...


I don't hold any ill will towards the man, indeed I respect his many accomplishments, but I don't feel much sympathy at all.

In the end, both Mr. Hudson and Mr. Walters are receiving EXACTLY what they desired. They specifically intended for there to be "lots of speculation from everyone", and they received it in spades. Having done no focus testing, and if Final Hours is to be believed even cutting out most of the writing staff from the development of the ending (not to mention the faux pas of leaving the ending to the last minute), it's not as if either of them are unfamiliar with the often tumultuous relationship between game developers and gaming fans in general, nor with Mass Effect fans in particular. If they lacked the foresight to consider the unintended consequences of their conscious decisions, that's their failing and being the seasoned writers/developers they are, they certainly are experienced enough to have been able to predict the possibity of how people are currently reacting.

"He" even went so far as to make the clarification DLC free? Any proof on that? Since we're swapping suppositions here, I'd bet a chunk of change that decision was made in the PR / Marketing departments. Mostly for reasons that have been hashed over in the dozens of threads since the announcement. 

I'd actually argue that the fans have not realistically heard anything, much less anything substantive, from anyone on the development team whatsoever. When you look at the messages (I hesitate to call them conversations, as that implies a state of duplex communications), the fans have for all intents and purposes really only heard from the PR department. Which is the further reason I don't feel sorry for Mr. Hudson, and why I disagree with the assertion of  "try so hard to win back their support". If they really were trying that hard, then they wouldn't have immediately punted everything over to PR and ran silent/deep. They'd have been at least somewhat engaged in the process. If they really were trying that hard, then the BioWare PR department wouldn't still be calling the shots at this point in the game.  Nor would they have dropped the "No ending/ending DLC discussion at PAX" hammer at nearly the last minute.

To be blunt.....they intentionally set in motion the events that led to the current mess, and are more than experienced enough to have been able to predict it. Not sure why that deserves sympathy. If you get bitten by a dog, you won't garner much sympathy when that event started with "well, I did kick him in the nose"...

Since we're still swapping suppositions, I'm honestly left with the impression that they hold more than a small amount of contempt for the fans who have issue with the ending, maybe even stoked a bit by the embers of ill will regarding the script leak brouhaha late last year. Which, to be perfectly honest, they have every right to feel that way. I just wish (and if this were two years or more ago I would have expected) that they could at least be open and honest about it, instead of hiding behind their PR department or tired claims of "artistic integrity".


Well put hard-case. Well put.

#233
Guest_Opsrbest_*

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As Project Director it's Casey's job to ensure the viability of the story as a collection across all three games as well as each individual game as well as to ensure the cohesiveness of the game play.

His job is not easy. So yes I do feel sorry for him.

#234
BDelacroix

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Deventh wrote...

Oh they worked so hard to lie to the fans.
Remember: "There won't be any A,B or C endings" "You will get closure." Yeah right.


That one and the screen shot of the red, green, blue filenames are going to be hard to put down.

#235
Ratham

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Hell no.

Too many lies, huge ego.

I'm not believing anything he says in the future.

Modifié par Ratham, 06 avril 2012 - 05:19 .


#236
zennyrpg

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Personally, yes. It sucks being insulted all the time, even if it was your own doing.

However, sympathy is not part of the capitalist society we all live in. I am not holding the line because I want to make him feel bad (I don't). I want to affect change.

However [again] if you tell people "we are listening" and then say "we are doing what we decided is best but doesn't reflect what the majority of you wanted but we are not going to explain 1) why we made this decision 2) why it is best for everyone 3) why we did listen but this and this wasn't feasible 4) why we thought this was a good idea in the first place 5) blah blah blah" then maybe you weren't listening. We [the gamers] are stakeholders in this product, we deserve to be part of the discussion. Our only recourse is to vote with our wallets.

#237
Avy DiSartori

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Nitblade wrote...

Not one bit.
because of this
http://www.gamesthir...s-casey-hudson/

I do feel sorry for the writing team that gave us a 98% exceptional game

I do feel sorry for all the devs that busted their asses to give us a polished game that got bumrushed be EA

I do feel sorry for the fans that have to wade through the great wall of PR spinned BS about the "Artistic Integrity" and the lies enumerated previously by many others

I do feel sorry for both the DR's that created Bioware, must be hard seeing your baby crashing & burning like it is now and trying to defend the indefensible from some sense of loyalty

I feel sorry for the fans because we might have just lost the greatest RPG maker in the whole gaming community


Just read the text you linked and... man, I'm shocked.. if that's true, its such a shame..  and it's so sad as well. You know, this game was supposed to be the best game in history.. and it had all the potential to be.. 

#238
Revelo

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I feel sorry for anyone at Bioware who put effort into the game and knows they messed up and want to do something proper about it. But can't because the higher ups are too concerned about "artistic integrity" and money to listen to anyone.

#239
Beans253

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I definitely do, especially after reading The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3. Do I think he and the team made a mistake? Yes. But for a guy who's spent nearly the last decade on this project, I feel bad that it blew up in his face in the very end.

#240
antony.daley

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I started to lose respect for Bioware as a developer when Dragon Age 2 came out and completely destroyed EVERYTHING DA:O set in place (Proven by sales figures alone). More so for me because they use 1 map, 1 house and 1 cave system and reused it for every single mission. But despite the fact they reused dungeons in the ME series I fully enjoyed the games...

The reason I now have no respect for Casey Hudson as an individual games developer was because he said and it has been quoted many many times. (Paraphrased) " There will be no chose ending A B or C and the story will get closure " - When the game came out we got exactly the opposite - We got Ending A B or C with ZERO closure.

I don't feel sorry for him, not in the slightest his "artistic integrity" ruined the entire series for me - I only post because I invested hours and money into the cannon and games and now have no desire to replay.

#241
CrazyRah

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IsaacShep wrote...

Yes. He is the prime reason people love this series. Yet he makes one mistake and suddenly people are demanding his head. There wouldn't be ME most of what fans love it for without him.


One mistake?

Is that having the endings in the game or outright lying to the fans several times?

I personally got no sympathy for people that lie to me and Casey is no different

#242
EliteOp-11

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Nah

#243
wesr

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I feel bad for all the people who his decisions push towards unemployment when EA gets tired of all this and gets rid of bioware but there's no sympathy for someone who lies and cheats people out of their money.

Modifié par wesr, 06 avril 2012 - 05:27 .


#244
Vexia2070

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..............

#245
antony.daley

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Bioware are safe - there AAA games are just too good - even with the whole farsicle endings they still make a tonne of money. Down side this game wont become one of the greats - It will be forgotten like DA2.

#246
Asepsis

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A part of me feels bad for anyone who receives this much hate, I personally don't want to attack the guy, but he did out right LIE in many of his interviews:
____

“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability tobuild the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry abouteventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc iscoming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lotmore different. At this point we’re taking into account so manydecisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of thatstuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,where you can say how many endings there are or whether you gotending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication andvariety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a playerdecide what your story is.” 
- Casey Hudson

http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2 

So yeah, with all that said, I don't feel sorry for him. He didn't have to lie the way he did in interviews, and neither did the rest of the people who lead us to believe our choices mattered.



Modifié par Asepsis, 06 avril 2012 - 05:31 .


#247
Fulgrim88

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antony.daley wrote...

Bioware are safe - there AAA games are just too good - even with the whole farsicle endings they still make a tonne of money. Down side this game wont become one of the greats - It will be forgotten like DA2.

Pretty much.

Although I can still see certain people at Bioware sitting in an elderly home in a couple decades, patting themselves on the back and reading IGN reviews:P

#248
nhsknudsen

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One word: Hubris

#249
Jackal7713

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Veggiesofmanycolors wrote...

He and Bioware have worked so hard to appease angry fans with the ending.  He even went so far as to make the clarification DLC free but now everyone is being so mean to him.  It must feel so terrible to have your fans turn their backs on you even though you try so hard to win back their support.


The announcement of the extended cut was on of the most insulting PR statements I have ever read. That along with the lies would make anyone in their right mind tell Mr. Hudson to go f*** himself.

#250
Noatz

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A little, in that one mistep is causing complete amnesia of everything else he has been involved in, but he hasn't helped himself with awkwardly worded doublespeak and point blank unwillingness to admit error.

Maybe some of this is down to corporate puppeteering, but ultimately when someone in the industry wants to level with their fans they can and do.