913 réponses à ce sujet

[Stegoceras]

b2smooth wrote...

Is there any explanation of why the human Reaper looks like a human but all of the other Reapers look the same? This is a question I have had since ME2. When I found the human Reaper I thought it looked like something a Terminator fan came up with.

Believe it is explained that the Human Reaper is the core of the ship, the outsides all look the same, the insides differ.

[b2smooth]

Mixon wrote...

It's sad, but more than month past from ME3 relise. Many angry players are gone now and more are cold now, like me. The terrible ending in past for me, Now I am just cold to a game and don't care of it at all. It's not interesting for me any more. Maybe "new" ending will fix it, but I don't think so... I don't think that BW will remake it like it must be, because simple "clarify" will be not enouth in this situation. Now I am just waiting for May 15...

D3 I assume

[b2smooth]

Stegoceras wrote...

b2smooth wrote...

Is there any explanation of why the human Reaper looks like a human but all of the other Reapers look the same? This is a question I have had since ME2. When I found the human Reaper I thought it looked like something a Terminator fan came up with.

Believe it is explained that the Human Reaper is the core of the ship, the outsides all look the same, the insides differ.

Thanks, I must have missed that.  I have played through each of these games a few times now and each time I notice a few things I hadn't before.

[a.m.p]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...


Yeah lets just hope the other 20,000 cycles never thought of that and the Reapers don't learn from their mistakes.

Well, the other 20000 cycles managed to pass the crucible on for a billion years, right? And some of them tried to build it? And it's plans still ended up in our backyard.
So I don't know about the whole learning from mistakes thing. I sure killed Harninger a lot in ME2 but he just kept coming at me and telling me this is true power.
After the reapers are turned into the starchild's playthings that managed to fail at everything they do except maybe massive killing, it's a bit late to paint them omnipotent and all-powerful space gods that can not be tricked.

There's a difference from tricking someone and doing the exact same thing that the cycle before you did and just hoping they fall for it a second time and haven't set up some precedures to stop people sabotaging the Keepers again.

Okay. Wait them out, apply some brains to the problem and trick them in a different way.
Like figure out a way to blow up the citadel altogether. Or learn how to move it and drop it into a black hole. Get it out of the picture in any way you can.

[The Angry One]

omikron199 wrote...

This please - answer this

http://social.biowar...594/23#11560373

Quantity is main question

The bulk of their force and their leadership is at Sol.
Kill them and the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Also "The protheans" were more spread through the galaxy and far more technically (not using keyboards!!!) and biologically(can read mind by touching) superior than any race in this cycle. But they died. It took several centuries to harvest them but they FAILED.

What makes you think that Shepard's alliance would succeed?

Because. The. Protheans. Had. No. Relays.
If the allies win at Sol, they have the Reaper leadership down + the Citadel back. The Presidium tower can rebuilt after it's cleansed of Space Hitler.

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

Destroyers suck. One cruiser can kill them.

Destroyers can also 1 shot kill anything.

We don't know, but considering 1 species = 1 Reaper, significantly more.

Codex: Reaper variants - capital ships
Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships.


Codex: Harvesting
Victims who cooperate, surrender, or are captured by husks are sorted into camps. It is believed the husks possess receptors that allow them to analyze a victim's DNA through sight, smell, or touch. Victims that meet their standards are herded from the camps into processor ships. Those the husks deem insufficient are either turned into husks themselves or indoctrinated to serve as slave labor. The Reapers use this last option to give their victims false hope -- many captives who would otherwise fight back become docile when they see members of their own kind obey and survive.


The Reapers have high standards for who they turn into Reaper goo. The entire population is simply not used for that.

There's nothing there that says they only make 1 Sovereign class Reaper per cycle, in fact all it shows is it actually takes less humans to make a Sovereign class Reaper than originally thought, as only a percentage of the colonists were harvested into the Human-Reaper.

So, what percentage of humans would you consider reaches that high standards? 5%? 50%? 90%? And, using that percentage and the numbers to make the HR from ME2, how much more humans would you say it takes to make a Sovereign class Reaper?

Codex: Fall of Earth
The capital ships bombarded defense installations and industrial centers, annihilating entire cities with populations in the low millions, including Adelaide, Hamburg, Al Jubail, and Fort Worth.

That doesn't say they blow up low population cities, it just says they destroyed defense installations and industrial centers which annihilated some low population cities in the low millions.

[Clayless]

a.m.p wrote...

Okay. Wait them out, apply some brains to the problem and trick them in a different way.
Like figure out a way to blow up the citadel altogether. Or learn how to move it and drop it into a black hole. Get it out of the picture in any way you can.

So, hide a population for thousands of years that's big enough to rebuild and create a fleet large enough to move the Citadel into a black hole, and hope that they aren't noticed by the Reapers/betrayed when they begin to do this or aren't noticed by the Reapers when they rebuild and begin to move the Citadel.

[The Angry One]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Destroyers can also 1 shot kill anything.

Only with garbage tactics.
That Destroyer that kills the Turian cruiser in the low EMS cutscene takes such a laughably long time to get done (not to mention stupidly latching onto the cruiser) that the other ships had ample time to shoot it's ass off before it fired.
Reapers also tend to miss a lot. Again, proper tactics > Reapers.

There's nothing there that says they only make 1 Sovereign class Reaper per cycle, in fact all it shows is it actually takes less humans to make a Sovereign class Reaper than originally thought, as only a percentage of the colonists were harvested into the Human-Reaper.

Assuming Collectors could afford to be that picky. 

So, what percentage of humans would you consider reaches that high standards? 5%? 50%? 90%? And, using that percentage and the numbers to make the HR from ME2, how much more humans would you say it takes to make a Sovereign class Reaper?

We don't know, the only information we're given is "a lot". The numbers used to make a weak, barely functional sub-sentient embyro that can be killed by assault rifles doesn't mean as much as you think.

That doesn't say they blow up low population cities, it just says they destroyed defense installations and industrial centers which annihilated some low population cities in the low millions.

Which part of "annihilating entire cities" does not follow from what I said?

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 avril 2012 - 12:42 .

[a.m.p]

omikron199 wrote...

This please - answer this

http://social.biowar...594/23#11560373

Quantity is main question

Also "The protheans" were more spread through the galaxy and far more technically (not using keyboards!!!) and biologically(can read mind by touching) superior than any race in this cycle. But they died. It took several centuries to harvest them but they FAILED.

What makes you think that Shepard's alliance would succeed?

The protheans, I'll never stop repeating: It doesn’t matter how good your guns are. If you are stuck somewhere where the enemy can bring infinite reinforcements in and you can’t, you’re dead. If you manage to hold out
for decades/centuries regardless, it means either the enemy is not nearly as strong as we’re told, or that there aren’t that many of them.

The numbers.
Reapers are in London because the battle is in London. And Anderson was born in London.
Reapers are in Vancouver because it's a military target.
"Large amounts" is not a number.
All numbers than anyone ever came up with about reapes are based on assumptions and speculations. You don't get approximations by doing math with assumptions and speculations.
We have solid info on two cycles.
We know that the last cycle they failed to produce a sov-class from the dominating race.
We know that someone had tech good enough to one-hit at least one reaper. That's it.
With that set of data you can claim that there are 1000000 total sov-class reapers or that there are 500. Neither number has solid proof under it, or solid proof against it.

Modifié par a.m.p, 20 avril 2012 - 12:51 .

[Elyiia]

We knew where the Reapers were going to arrive, why didn't they prepare that system with mines etc. Even if we can't do it in Batarian space, we know which direction they'll be taking from there to get to Earth.

[a.m.p]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Okay. Wait them out, apply some brains to the problem and trick them in a different way.
Like figure out a way to blow up the citadel altogether. Or learn how to move it and drop it into a black hole. Get it out of the picture in any way you can.

So, hide a population for thousands of years that's big enough to rebuild and create a fleet large enough to move the Citadel into a black hole, and hope that they aren't noticed by the Reapers/betrayed when they begin to do this or aren't noticed by the Reapers when they rebuild and begin to move the Citadel.

So, we know that the citadel is moved by a fleet dragging it?
Like this?

Just with reapers? That's an interesting mental image.

[omikron199]

The Angry One wrote...
The bulk of their force and their leadership is at Sol.
Kill them and the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Any proof?

Also "The protheans" were more spread through the galaxy and far more technically (not using keyboards!!!) and biologically(can read mind by touching) superior than any race in this cycle. But they died. It took several centuries to harvest them but they FAILED.

What makes you think that Shepard's alliance would succeed?

Because. The. Protheans. Had. No. Relays.
If the allies win at Sol, they have the Reaper leadership down + the Citadel back. The Presidium tower can rebuilt after it's cleansed of Space Hitler.

Also proof for this please.

1. About no relays

2. You started your sentence with "IF" that means you think that shepard's alliance can achieve  victory by taking down reaper command.

Also no proof here

We do not know about reaper chain of command except they have mindless husks and small destroyer ships and big capital ships.

We do not know how do they communicate between each other, how they make their war strategic decisions, we only know that they send controlling signal for husks.

Sorry but you didn't answer logic question again

is 1 ddeath better than trillions?

[The Angry One]

omikron199 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
The bulk of their force and their leadership is at Sol.
Kill them and the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Any proof?

"I control the Reapers. They are my solution."

Also proof for this please.

We're talking about how the ending could allow for a conventional victory. i.e. a rewrite. Why do I need proof?
Just make the Presidium tower the home of Spacebaby's AI core.
Even without a rewrite I think that's where it is. Why would it be anywhere else? The Presidium tower is what the Crucible interfaces with, hence the Catalyst is there.

Shepard: "Hackett, the Crucible's a no go. Order all forces to open fire on the Presidium tower before the Citadel arms close. This is our only chance".

Or something like that.

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 avril 2012 - 12:57 .

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

Only with garbage tactics.
That Destroyer that kills the Turian cruiser in the low EMS cutscene takes such a laughably long time to get done (not to mention stupidly latching onto the cruiser) that the other ships had ample time to shoot it's ass off before it fired.
Reapers also tend to miss a lot. Again, proper tactics > Reapers.

Yeah lets just hope the Reapers miss the massive ships with their lasers.

Assuming Collectors could afford to be that picky.

The Reapers work off of logic, if all humans could make a Sovereign class Reaper then they would just do that, especially in this cycle as things are different. So no, judging from the codex only a percentage of the colonists were harvested. In fact we even see a pile of dead bodies, which shows that the Collectors could afford to be that picky.

We don't know, the only information we're given is "a lot". The numbers used to make a weak, barely functional sub-sentient embyro that can be killed by assault rifles doesn't mean as much as you think.

Actually answer the question already. You can't say the Reapers can be destroyed by conventional means when the game point blank shows they can't, which means you'll need to use evidence to judge. Speculate on the number it takes to make a Reaper using evidence from the game and the numbers you'd think it'd take to make one and then we can discuss if they can be destroyed by conventional means, because until then they can't.

Which part of "annihilating entire cities" does not follow from what I said?

There's a difference between destroying cities with low millions and collateral damage.

[AngryFrozenWater]

fchopin wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Destruction means another genocide - this time the geth.

Destruction does not have to mean the Geth will die, we will have to wait for EC to find out but i am sure some will survive.

Edit: Everything we did in the game and what we accumulated will be the result of what kind of ending we get, i think this is why people are having problems with the endings as most of them seem similar, hopefully Bioware will fix the problem.

I have labelled some variations with #0, #1, #2, #A or #B. The destruction ending seems to be the most destructive (pun intended) variation of them all.

Child #0: You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want.
Child #0: Including the geth.
Child #0: And most of the technology you rely on.
Child #1: You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want.
Child #1: Including the geth.
Child #2: You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want.
Child: Even you are partly synthetic...
Shepard: But the reapers will be destroyed?
Child: Yes, but the peace won't last.
Child: Soon, your children will create synthetics, and the chaos will come back.
Shepard #A: We'll take our chances.
Child #A: Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.
Child #A: The path is open.
Child #A: There is only one way ahead.
Shepard #B: Maybe...
Child #B: ...

Child: Or do you think you can control us?
Shepard: Huh... So the Illusive Man was right after all.
Child: Yes, but he could never have taken control... because we already controlled him.
Shepard: But I can...
Child: You will die. You will control us, but you will lose everything you have.
Shepard: But the reapers will obey me?
Child #A: Yes. Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.
Child #B: Yes.

Child: There is another solution.
Shepard: Yeah?
Child: Synthesis.
Shepard: And that is?
Child: Add you energy to the Crucible's.
Child: Everything you are will be absorbed and then send out.
Child: The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework.
Child: A new DNA.
Shepard: I... don't know.
Child: Why not?
Child: Synthetics are already part of you.
Child: Can you imagine your life without them?
Shepard: And there will be peace?
Child: The cycle will end.
Child: Synthesis is the final solution of life, but we need each other to make it happen.
Child: You have a difficult decision.
Child: Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.

Child: The paths are open.
Child: But you have to choose.

As you can see there are variations. Do they actually differ or where some omitted to reduce the length of the scene because more options became available? To me "wipe out all synthetic life" is pretty clear.

Besides, it is nonsensical when you have already established peace with the geth. And none of the other solutions will make sense in that case either.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 20 avril 2012 - 01:07 .

[Noelemahc]

1. About no relays

The Reapers took the Citadel instantly in the Prothean Cycle. And disabled the relays, effectively land-locking any Protheans wherever they were. This was broken in our cycle because the Protheans from Ilos frelled up the Keepers and Sovereign failed.

2. You started your sentence with "IF" that means you think that shepard's alliance can achieve victory by taking down reaper command.

It's a hypothesis. Has to start with "if". Also, individual Reapers are easily raeped, if you'll pardon the pun, by a coordinated fleet. Kill their high command, they probably don't know jack about guerilla warfare and will, eventually, be hunted down. As I said several times, I'm all for seeing a sequel about hunting Reaper Remnants down if the EC DLC goes down that road.

As for the chain of command, Word of God is indecisive whether Harbinger is simply Biggest Reaper or Head Reaper, but he obviously has pull in the Reaper Hierarchy, so killing him is as good a first step as any.

[Elyiia]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
The Reapers work off of logic, if all humans could make a Sovereign class Reaper then they would just do that, especially in this cycle as things are different. So no, judging from the codex only a percentage of the colonists were harvested. In fact we even see a pile of dead bodies, which shows that the Collectors could afford to be that picky.

No, what that tells us is that certain humans can't be used to make a Capital ship, which is backed up by the laughably incosistant Codex.

[The Angry One]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Yeah lets just hope the Reapers miss the massive ships with their lasers.

Frigates with thanix cannons can dodge lasers all the time. The Normandy does it in ME2.

The Reapers work off of logic, if all humans could make a Sovereign class Reaper then they would just do that, especially in this cycle as things are different. So no, judging from the codex only a percentage of the colonists were harvested. In fact we even see a pile of dead bodies, which shows that the Collectors could afford to be that picky.

Reapers work off logic? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... HAHAHAHAHA.. HAHAH.. AHAHA.

Anyway. There are different levels of picky. And it still means little. The fact is, Reapers are very specific about what they want. Despite appearances to the contrary, not everybody can be Reaper goo, and the Reapers are very slow and methodical about this.

Actually answer the question already. You can't say the Reapers can be destroyed by conventional means when the game point blank shows they can't, which means you'll need to use evidence to judge. Speculate on the number it takes to make a Reaper using evidence from the game and the numbers you'd think it'd take to make one and then we can discuss if they can be destroyed by conventional means, because until then they can't.

What? We SEE them destroyed conventionally in game. We're TOLD proper, effective tactics to use against them. This is not a guess.
We are never told how many it takes to make a Reaper, all we know for sure is how many it takes to make an incomplete embryo. That's it. Anything on top of that is pure guess work.

There's a difference between destroying cities with low millions and collateral damage.

They killed those cities on purpose. It was systematic.

[Stegoceras]

I do wonder if by the odd chance the Reapers were being pushed back (conventional or unconventional) if they would apply a new tactic of ramming themselves into mass relays, that would be fun. Basically a few into the Charon relay would do.

[a.m.p]

Okay, I'm out for a couple hours. Before I go, would like to throw out a question for the "the whole game Hackett tells us we can't" crowd.
Suppose a few lines were added either to the pre-Cronos conversation, or to the one with Anderson when he arrives aboard, that would acknowledge (if EMS was high enough) that there actually is a chance with the armada gathered.
Would a conventional or semi-conventional (blow up starchild - disorient reapers) victory in Sol be acceptable then?

[omikron199]

a.m.p wrote...

The numbers.
Reapers are in London because the battle is in London. And Anderson was born in London.
Reapers are in Vancouver because it's a military target.
"Large amounts" is not a number.
All numbers than anyone ever came up with about reapes are based on assumptions and speculations. You don't get approximations by doing math with assumptions and speculations.
We have solid info on two cycles.
We know that the last cycle they failed to produce a sov-class from the dominating race.
We know that someone had tech good enough to one-hit at least one reaper. That's it.
With that set of data you can claim that there are 1000000 total sov-class reapers or that there are 500. Neither number has solid proof under it, or solid proof against it.

I think you didn't get it. It is mentioned during me 3 that reapers are in all big cities.

I have a proof of ingame scenes showing us citadel ships+ destroyers in 1 city, also I gave you the proof with the videos above.

The reapers are in London because the battle is in London? WTF What kind of logic are you using?

I think you might gotten it wrong

I'll fix this for you

The battle is in London because the Reapers are in London

And they are in every big city http://www.mongabay....ulation_01.html

We also know that Earths population is bigger than now so even if it took (and it did, see proove above) about 5 capital ships on 1 city then there are at least 1675 capital ships just on Earth.

But then reapers arrive to palaven ,thessia, and every othe world/system.

Modifié par omikron199, 20 avril 2012 - 01:15 .

[omikron199]

The Angry One wrote...

omikron199 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
The bulk of their force and their leadership is at Sol.
Kill them and the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Any proof?

"I control the Reapers. They are my solution."

Also proof for this please.

We're talking about how the ending could allow for a conventional victory. i.e. a rewrite. Why do I need proof?
Just make the Presidium tower the home of Spacebaby's AI core.
Even without a rewrite I think that's where it is. Why would it be anywhere else? The Presidium tower is what the Crucible interfaces with, hence the Catalyst is there.

Shepard: "Hackett, the Crucible's a no go. Order all forces to open fire on the Presidium tower before the Citadel arms close. This is our only chance".

Or something like that.

The citadel is only a part of catalyst. Also the part of the citadel is even smaller part of the catalyst.
You do not know if the catalyst even is stored on the citadel.

Maybe he is wirelessly translated from the harbringer or from crucible or from both?

No one knows.

So it is not even the proof of destroying the citadel will kill the command of the reaper forces.
Yet again if you deny any proofs then every your replica is meaningless You just talk .

Answer this already please
is 1 ddeath better than trillions?

Modifié par omikron199, 20 avril 2012 - 01:16 .

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

Reapers work off logic? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... HAHAHAHAHA.. HAHAH.. AHAHA.

Anyway. There are different levels of picky. And it still means little. The fact is, Reapers are very specific about what they want. Despite appearances to the contrary, not everybody can be Reaper goo, and the Reapers are very slow and methodical about this.

Actually answer the question already. You can't say the Reapers can be destroyed by conventional means when the game point blank shows they can't, which means you'll need to use evidence to judge. Speculate on the number it takes to make a Reaper using evidence from the game and the numbers you'd think it'd take to make one and then we can discuss if they can be destroyed by conventional means, because until then they can't.

What? We SEE them destroyed conventionally in game. We're TOLD proper, effective tactics to use against them. This is not a guess.
We are never told how many it takes to make a Reaper, all we know for sure is how many it takes to make an incomplete embryo. That's it. Anything on top of that is pure guess work.

Yes not everyone can be turned into goo, "there are different levels of picky" is something you just picked out of the air, along with "assuming the Collectors could afford to be picky". According to the codex, and the game, only a certain percentage of humans can be processed, and therefore only a certain percentage of the colonists were harvested (we see bodies of humans on the Collector ship which further shows this), which means it takes less humans than we thought to make a Sovereign class Reaper. I never pulled this out the air, I'm using facts from the codex and the game.

Do you want something that's not guesswork? Being straight up told by the leader of the Alliance and the Crucible project that we can't beat the Reapers conventionally and if the Crucible fails the galaxy will fall.

So answer the question already. How much humans would you say it takes to create a Sovereign class Reapers judging from all the evidence we have?

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 20 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[Elyiia]

The Reapers entered the galaxy through the Citadel, instantly decapitating the Protheans' government and disrupting the mass relay network, isolating Prothean systems from one another.

Yeah, we know the Protheans didn't have relay access.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Prothean#Cataclysm

[omikron199]

Answer this already please
is 1 death (Shepard's) better than trillions (military that will die during conventional war)?

Modifié par omikron199, 20 avril 2012 - 01:23 .