913 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

To that I say - if such an option would be included into the EC, they woudln’t have to deduce the effects on their own. With a little bit of talent and effort all these devastating consequences can be shown in a few cutscenes in a profoundly  tear-jerking bittersweet way so that nobody would ever complain the galaxy got away easy.

Showing things like the Destiny Ascention being destroyed if you save it in ME1 would help.

Perhaps killing some of the better known characters that we've met. Obviously you can't kill Wrex and Eve because that just invalidates your choices regarding the Genophage but there's plenty of other characters that would show the consequences extremely effectively.

Showing the Reapers getting desperate and glassing somewhere like Illium would go a long way as well.

[a.m.p]

This thread is long overdue for a bump. And on my journey through ME1 I bumped into the quest UNC:ExoGeni facility again. It's implied the Thorian has some influence over creepers in another cluster.
That got me thinking.
Standard galactic communication depends on the relays. And the comm buoys are one of the reapers' primary targets. QEC is one alternative but is implied to be awfully expensive, hard to make and what not.

So are there any other potential and more convenient alternative methods of interstellar communication? How did the prothean beacons work for example? Why wasn't anyone concerned with developing viable alternatives with the reapers about to arrive? (Okay, that last one was a rhetorical question).

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

This thread is long overdue for a bump. And on my journey through ME1 I bumped into the quest UNC:ExoGeni facility again. It's implied the Thorian has some influence over creepers in another cluster.
That got me thinking.
Standard galactic communication depends on the relays. And the comm buoys are one of the reapers' primary targets. QEC is one alternative but is implied to be awfully expensive, hard to make and what not.

So are there any other potential and more convenient alternative methods of interstellar communication? How did the prothean beacons work for example? Why wasn't anyone concerned with developing viable alternatives with the reapers about to arrive? (Okay, that last one was a rhetorical question).

I'm imagining Rachni workers in each section acting like little communication bouys.

[PsyrenY]

a.m.p wrote...

So are there any other potential and more convenient alternative methods of interstellar communication?

If you save the queen in ME3, Traynor notes that the Rachni are able to communicate across stars instantaneously and without the relay network, and expresses a rather R&D-esque interest in mimicking that ability through technology. (And you can actually witness this firsthand in ME1 - there are several planets, and even a spot on our own moon, where you can drive the Mako and hear the Rachni song. No, don't ask me how sound travels through space dammit )

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 11 mai 2012 - 12:33 .

[Noelemahc]

It's implied the Thorian has some influence over creepers in another cluster.

Shiala's letter in ME3 pretty much confirms that the Thorian's mind-control-communication whatchamacallit is very nifty, as it counters indoctrination, among other things, and gives all the conceivable benefits of a hivemind. We don't get to learn much about the downsides, although this is used as the main reason why Shiala x Shepard isn't ever happening by many people opposed to freedom of LI-related self-expression =)

QEC is not only expensive, it is also cumbersome. Passing mentions are made how its point-to-point nature requires a switchboard to function as anything other than a can-string-can "telephone", and youmanity's main switchboard was destroyed at/with Arcturus Station. Oopsie.

Prothean beacons were mainly about storing information and letting organics access it at a touch, for all we know, the actual data dissemination could very well have still relied on comm buoys not that different from ours.

there are several planets, and even a spot on our own moon, where you
can drive the Mako and hear the Rachni song. No, don't ask me how sound
travels through space dammit

Dammit, how could I forget this? Easily the most creepy element of ME1's soundscapes.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 11 mai 2012 - 12:46 .

[a.m.p]

Optimystic_X wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

So are there any other potential and more convenient alternative methods of interstellar communication?

If you save the queen in ME3, Traynor notes that the Rachni are able to communicate across stars instantaneously and without the relay network, and expresses a rather R&D-esque interest in mimicking that ability through technology. (And you can actually witness this firsthand in ME1 - there are several planets, and even a spot on our own moon, where you can drive the Mako and hear the Rachni song. No, don't ask me how sound travels through space dammit )

Now that you mention it, I remember. that's what you get when concentrating on the ending

@Noel
About prothean beacons, Vigil said they sent their warning after reapers left and presumably destroyed everything they could find.

Also, where exactly in Infiltrator is that prototype you mentioned? I've found something that looks like a full playthrough on youtube, would like to see for myself.

Modifié par a.m.p, 11 mai 2012 - 02:05 .

[Noelemahc]

Also, where exactly in Infiltrator is that prototype you mentioned? I've found something that looks like a full playthrough on youtube, would like to see for myself.

You buy one for Ezno from the in-game store, absurd as it may be. The only time you see someone who is not him wield it is in the Turian Bonus Chapter (after checkpoint three, I think), one of the Krogan prisoners has one of these, IIRC. Can't confirm specifically, damn thing became less stable as of the latest update =(

Modifié par Noelemahc, 11 mai 2012 - 02:33 .

[a.m.p]

Noelemahc wrote...

Also, where exactly in Infiltrator is that prototype you mentioned? I've found something that looks like a full playthrough on youtube, would like to see for myself.

You buy one for Ezno from the in-game store, absurd as it may be. The only time you see someone who is not him wield it is in the Turian Bonus Chapter (after checkpoint three, I think), one of the Krogan prisoners has one of these, IIRC. Can't confirm specifically, damn thing became less stable as of the latest update =(

I see.

What is it with spin-offs and Cerberus anyway? And while we're at it, one thing that keeps bugging me about Cerberus and spin-offs. I've been repeatedly told that the station is established to be mobile.

Can it go through a relay? Can it FTL between systems in one cluster? In that case I'd really like to take a look at its power source and FTL core.

[Noelemahc]

What is it with spin-offs and Cerberus anyway?

Because Mac Walters is infatuated with making what was originally established as a low-key black ops semi-terrorist organization into a flamboyantly James Bond's S.P.E.C.T..R.E.-like superpower-without-a-nation in space?

B-Sides, Cerberus in ME: Galaxy is more or less consistent with the way it was treated in ME1 - a relative unknown without a PR department (which is apparently very large in size and power in ME3, judging by the fact that Hackett pretty much states it outright in and around the Benning mission), despite having characters that will appear in ME2 in it.

The books are here-and-there. Cerberus operates on Omega on the down-low (at least in the three "real" books), through triple agents and traitors. I mean, one of Kai Leng's contacts is an exiled Quarian, for crying out loud! Come ME3 (and Deception), and they suddenly possess the ability to take it over. WTF?

Now ME: Infiltrator... sorta kinda ME2-grade - not yet a Really Important Superpower, but already very Jamesbondy. The fact that they are incapable of defending themselves from the "one-man-with-a-gun" rule (even if he is helped by a prison break and a geth invasion) just proves that they're not yet at ME3's levels of plot insanity.

I've been repeatedly told that the station is established to be mobile.

Cronos? It's implied in the books, yes, as a silly way to explain the multicoloured star behind TIM (which, come ME3, is still the SAME star), which was actually a cleverly designed Para/Rene meter.

[a.m.p]

Noelemahc wrote...

What is it with spin-offs and Cerberus anyway?

Because Mac Walters is infatuated with making what was originally established as a low-key black ops semi-terrorist organization into a flamboyantly James Bond's S.P.E.C.T..R.E.-like superpower-without-a-nation in space?

Well, I guess this explains where all the resources and industrial power in the galaxy went.
Seriously. The crazy terrorists can go from this to this in three games, but the rest of the galaxy is supposed to be stuck with whatever they have.

Cronos? It's implied in the books, yes, as a silly way to explain the multicoloured star behind TIM (which, come ME3, is still the SAME star), which was actually a cleverly designed Para/Rene meter.

What bugs me is that it is a giant space station that is not in a system with a relay. To be mobile and able to go from one colorful star to another it would have to FTL between stars. Unless I'm very mistaken, that is the only non-reaper-built construct in the galaxy with that kind of capabilities.

[Elyiia]

So I was just starting a new game to see how they introduce the previous choices to new players and I got up to that point where the Capital ship destroys the cruiser. As far as I can tell it is impossible to run fast enough so that the cruiser doesn't take a direct hit and survives, getting destroyed on the second hit. This goes completely against the Codex...

Modifié par Elyiia, 12 mai 2012 - 11:19 .

[a.m.p]

Elyiia wrote...

So I was just starting a new game to see how they introduce the previous choices to new players and I got up to that point where the Capital ship destroys the cruiser. As far as I can tell it is impossible to run fast enough so that the cruiser doesn't take a direct hit and survives, getting destroyed on the second hit. This goes completely against the Codex...

Well, the fact that the cruiser is called a dreadnaught goes completely against the codex too.

They really, really need to hire one guy (preferably with some technical education) who would be responsible for the lore consistency in everything that is part of their franchise. That would have solved so many of the problems.

And about new games with no import, am I right to think that the opening sequence is basically the same as in the demo?

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

So I was just starting a new game to see how they introduce the previous choices to new players and I got up to that point where the Capital ship destroys the cruiser. As far as I can tell it is impossible to run fast enough so that the cruiser doesn't take a direct hit and survives, getting destroyed on the second hit. This goes completely against the Codex...

Well, the fact that the cruiser is called a dreadnaught goes completely against the codex too.

They really, really need to hire one guy (preferably with some technical education) who would be responsible for the lore consistency in everything that is part of their franchise. That would have solved so many of the problems.

And about new games with no import, am I right to think that the opening sequence is basically the same as in the demo?

The opening is the exact same, just you choose between Ash, Kaiden and *multiple* being dead. I was using it as an argument that no one coming into ME3 would see the symptoms of indoctrination.

[a.m.p]

Elyiia wrote...

The opening is the exact same, just you choose between Ash, Kaiden and *multiple* being dead. I was using it as an argument that no one coming into ME3 would see the symptoms of indoctrination.

Symptoms of indoctrination?

Anyway, can somebody tell me where the whole "Kaiden" thing even came from? The guy's name is Kaidan, yet half the forum spells it wrong after five years and three games.

Modifié par a.m.p, 12 mai 2012 - 01:19 .

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The opening is the exact same, just you choose between Ash, Kaiden and *multiple* being dead. I was using it as an argument that no one coming into ME3 would see the symptoms of indoctrination.

Symptoms of indoctrination?

Anyway, can somebody tell me where the whole "Kaiden" thing even came from? The guy's name is Kaidan, yet half the forum spells it wrong after five years and three games.

Too much to go into and I really dislike arguing against IT, because half the time I'm trying to reply to 5 different posters.

Probably because I've left him on Virmire in every one of my run throughs and never used him on my squad so I never bothered to learn how to spell his name.

[Noelemahc]

Anyway, can somebody tell me where the whole "Kaiden" thing even came from? The guy's name is Kaidan, yet half the forum spells it wrong after five years and three games.

Because people hear one whiff of Rafael Sbarge and poof, "Holy crap, it's that whiner from KotOR, gotta hate'im, gotta hate'im!". On a more serious note, it's the same issue with people not wanting to pay attention, like the amount of letters in the names of Isabela (everyone's so intent on doubling the L, it's even OFFICIAL in the Russian version of DA2!) or Merrill (again, the Ls are singled in the Russian release, and, to add insult to injury, she's spelled as Мерриль, as apparently they thought it wasn't feminine enough), or the eternal issue of people confusing the words "rouge" and "rogue" and "rough". IIRC, the relevant trope is called "Rouge Angles of Satin", and with good reason =)

There's a thread out there with people pointing out that the layout of the Starchild chamber has a trick to it much like the Council Chambers from ME1: if looked at from above, it's the Dialogue Wheel.

Depending on interpretation, you either have:

Elevator is Investigate; Control is Top Grey (pro-Paragon), Synthesis is "I Should Go" and Destroy is Bottom Grey (pro-Renegade)

OR

Elevator is "I Should Go", Control is , Synthesis is Investigate/Third Option and finally Destroy is .

Funny things, interpretations, huh?

Modifié par Noelemahc, 12 mai 2012 - 01:36 .

[a.m.p]

Noelemahc wrote...

Anyway, can somebody tell me where the whole "Kaiden" thing even came from? The guy's name is Kaidan, yet half the forum spells it wrong after five years and three games.

Because people hear one whiff of Rafael Sbarge and poof, "Holy crap, it's that whiner from KotOR, gotta hate'im, gotta hate'im!".

Here's an anecdote. I did not figure out it was the same voice actor until hours into ME1. Seriously. It was quiet a revelation when I stopped halfway through some dialogue and thought "Wait a second..."
Talk about not paying attention. (To be clear, I'm that rare kind of person who likes Kaidan and thinks Carth Onasi is a miserable broken little man).

As for russian translations, I try to stay as far away from them as possible. They are painful to experience.

There's a thread out there with people pointing out that the layout of the Starchild chamber has a trick to it much like the Council Chambers from ME1: if looked at from above, it's the Dialogue Wheel.

Depending on interpretation, you either have:

Elevator is Investigate; Control is Top Grey (pro-Paragon), Synthesis is "I Should Go" and Destroy is Bottom Grey (pro-Renegade)

OR

Elevator is "I Should Go", Control is , Synthesis is Investigate/Third Option and finally Destroy is .

Funny things, interpretations, huh?

Yeah, I noticed that too some time back. *must resist making speculations joke*

[Noelemahc]

I did not figure out it was the same voice actor until hours into ME1. Seriously. It was quiet a revelation when I stopped halfway through some dialogue and thought "Wait a second..."

Hah. For me it was halfway through his love scene with my FemShep. Something in the tone of voice made me go "OMG, it's Carth, isn't it? Holy crap, he's even basically the same character, only cooler!" Aaand that was about the time I learned about the console commands to get him back as a same-sex LI, but that's a separate story.

That said, I must be one of a handful of people on the planet Earth to not consider Carth a whiner, but then again, there's a lot of things I do wrong.

As for russian translations, I try to stay as far away from them as possible. They are painful to experience.

Hear, hear. The Russian translation of ME1 nearly prevented me from playing it, right until I realized that, "wait, the voices are still in English. I can maybe switch the subtitle language to English too?" (couldn't, but that's another story too).
EA came a long way since then, stopped outsourcing translations (meaning: no more voiceovers for Russian release, which is for the best -- ME1 had a lot of needless profanity added here and there; DAO was so horrifying, the people involved in it must've been working for food, not money), but the quality still suxxors.

Yeah, I noticed that too some time back.

Really makes you wonder whether they planned it like this or that's just a stupid coinkidink. We may never know.

[Elyiia]

You know what would have been a better ending (This is assuming no crucible at all)? Shepard goes into the conduit in order to find something, he manages to destroy a guardian which causes the Reapers to lose their shields and long range communications but otherwise function normally.
EMS check here, if it's too low you lose and the Reapers win. If it's high enough the fleet destroy the Reapers in the Sol system.

Cut to back on board the Normandy, in a vid chat with Hacket (after all the victory crap) he reveals that Asari, Salarian and Turian territory are all still under heavy Reaper focus and the fleet can only fight on two fronts, leaving one species to get decimated. There's no right or wrong choice here, only a moral one. Perhaps in a perfect play through, requiring a game continued from ME1, you can fight on three fronts saving all three. Perhaps having enough EMS to pass the first check, there's now a second check and if it's not high enough you can only save one species, allowing the other two to be decimated.

Then it finishes properly, with epilogue scenes etc.

That's my opinion anyway.

[CroGamer002]

Convectional victory is NOT possible.

Best case scenario going convectional is Pyrrhic victory for Reapers.

[a.m.p]

Mesina2 wrote...

Convectional victory is NOT possible.

Best case scenario going convectional is Pyrrhic victory for Reapers.

Why? Apart from Hackett saying it's not possible three of four times, why?

[a.m.p]

Elyiia wrote...

You know what would have been a better ending (This is assuming no crucible at all)? Shepard goes into the conduit in order to find something, he manages to destroy a guardian which causes the Reapers to lose their shields and long range communications but otherwise function normally.
EMS check here, if it's too low you lose and the Reapers win. If it's high enough the fleet destroy the Reapers in the Sol system.

Cut to back on board the Normandy, in a vid chat with Hacket (after all the victory crap) he reveals that Asari, Salarian and Turian territory are all still under heavy Reaper focus and the fleet can only fight on two fronts, leaving one species to get decimated. There's no right or wrong choice here, only a moral one. Perhaps in a perfect play through, requiring a game continued from ME1, you can fight on three fronts saving all three. Perhaps having enough EMS to pass the first check, there's now a second check and if it's not high enough you can only save one species, allowing the other two to be decimated.

Then it finishes properly, with epilogue scenes etc.

That's my opinion anyway.

I can't find the thread where I've given an example of how ME3 could have had the exact same plot, including the battle for Earth and getting onto the citadel, just without the crucible.
It revolved around reapers using Cerberus to take the citadel because they couldn't do it themselves, the fleet going to Earth to take it back before they fix the relay control, just part of the fleet making it through the relays in time, Shepard getting onto the citadel to open the relays to let in reinforcements, reinforcements kicking reapers out of Sol and the allied forces getting the functional relay control mechanism (that they couldn't previously fix themselves because breaking is much easier than fixing).

Modifié par a.m.p, 12 mai 2012 - 04:06 .

[CroGamer002]

a.m.p wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Convectional victory is NOT possible.

Best case scenario going convectional is Pyrrhic victory for Reapers.

Why? Apart from Hackett saying it's not possible three of four times, why?

Replay ME1 ending.


Sovereign alone devastated Alliance Fleets and he was also sitting duck.

And only reason why they take him down is because Shepard killed Saren husk avatar that Sovy assumed control over and link was severed why he was still controlling him so put him "shock" that made him go offline, which includes his shields.


And there's an entire legion of Reapers on Earth.

Modifié par Mesina2, 12 mai 2012 - 05:25 .

[a.m.p]

Mesina2 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Convectional victory is NOT possible.

Best case scenario going convectional is Pyrrhic victory for Reapers.

Why? Apart from Hackett saying it's not possible three of four times, why?

Replay ME1 ending.


Sovereign alone devastated Alliance Fleets and he was also sitting duck.

And only reason why they take him down is because Shepard killed Saren husk avatar that Sovy assumed control over and link was severed why he was still controlling him so put him "shock" that made him go offline, which includes his shields.


And there's an entire legion of Reapers on Earth.

Sovereign took part in the battle only after the arms opened. Until then he rammed one cruiser. The rest of the damage was done by the geth fleet, who are now on our side.

Also, the fleet was shooting him with highly ineffective kinetic weapons, that are supposed to be mostly replaced by Thanix cannons by ME3.

As for the entire legion of reapers at Earth, we did some counting on this thread. Based on the cutscenes and common sense, there can not be more than a few hundred sov-class ones at Earth and no more than a few thousand total all around the galaxy for the plot of ME3 make even a little sense.

Whereas we have the forces of the entire galaxy at our disposal. That's why I mentioned Hackett. His dialogue is literally the single thing in the whole trilogy that a conventional victory would directly contradict.
And then there is the various funny lore that can help fighting them more effectively. Starting with actually using the citadel as the relay control hub it is, just against reapers, and down to various nukes and antimatter weapons, FTL projectiles, FTL projectiles with nukes and antimatter warheads on them, cyberwarfare and anything else you might wish.

Modifié par a.m.p, 12 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[a.m.p]

Also, ladies and gentlemen, while being busy thinking about space battles, we forgot about planetary defenses.

Dean_the_Young reminds us.

Here is the most important part:

The simplest answer for 'who needs infantry' would have been 'planetary defense canons defended by ground-based kinetic barriers.' City-scale barriers were raised in the Cerberus Daily News articles, particularly
as a way that kinetic barriers could stop FTL-kamikazes, while planetary ground canons make marginal appearances in ME3 as being effective against organic craft: an ancient Tuchanka canon blows a cutting-edge Cerberus cruiser, while the Rannoch canon was tearing into the Quarian fleet off screen. While not absolute, we're also given that the Reapers don't simply wade through such defenses: the Hanar homeworld gets Reaped, for example, only if the defense systems are shut off.

The rest of the thread is a good list of all the things that could be done with that tech. In a world where it would be allowed to be effective against reapers.

Modifié par a.m.p, 12 mai 2012 - 06:38 .