282 réponses à ce sujet

[G Kevin]

MystaisPC wrote...

Yeah, we're screwed 

Maybe.

I believe that the key to moving forward is to stimulate these concepts to the youth of every nation. There should never be a demand for scientists or engineers, rather there should an abundance of them.

What the world needs is hope and dreams. They never said it was going to be easy but we can't ignore it.

"Per Aspera Ad Astra." - Through hardships to the stars.

[StarGateGod]

Sesshaku wrote...

warrior256 wrote...

I'll be honest. I'm a bit of a skeptic about alien life. At the very least, I don't believe there are advanced alien civilizations out there that have visited Earth before. I'm not saying that there are no aliens, I just don't think there is some sort of galatic government out there that rules over all known species in the galaxy.

I would like for some sort of galatic civilization to exist like in Mass Effect, but I just really doubt it.

Agree, the Universe it's just to big for that kind of interaction. And we have no solid theory that could actually make us to believe that it's possible to travel so easily like in Mass Effect. In fact quite the opposite.

Chances are that Human Space Conquest will be a mix of 2001 Space Odissey and The Forever War.
Or even like Mass Effect BEFORE the discovering of the protheans and the mass relays.

 In real world i think that humanity will:

1º: Start to discover Planets that COULD have life (the search has already started and bringed some results).
2º: Eventually we will find life in Europe or perhaps fossils of bacterias on Mars (that once had water).
3º: If we have lucky, one day projects like the one at SETI will discover a signal that after serious analysis would be confirmed as "extraterrestial origin". Then we wouls spend probably a lot of time figuring out what the hell says and answer something that will take hundreds of years to arrive, and hundreds of years to come back as a new answer. For example, let's say the Aliens live 100 lightyears away. That would mean we would have to wait at least 200 years for getting an answer to what we send.

does seti use light raves or radio waves

[Canned Bullets]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

Well, we'll need FTL technology to colonize other planets in 400 years because we're expected to run out of resources completely by 2432. Hopefully by then we would have had sufficient space defenses like a powerful Navy.

[BeDotWe]

Too bad we are limited by certain constants. But who knows, maybe we can achieve superluminal tranmission of information and matter by entering different dimensions...

[G Kevin]

StarGateGod wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

warrior256 wrote...

I'll be honest. I'm a bit of a skeptic about alien life. At the very least, I don't believe there are advanced alien civilizations out there that have visited Earth before. I'm not saying that there are no aliens, I just don't think there is some sort of galatic government out there that rules over all known species in the galaxy.

I would like for some sort of galatic civilization to exist like in Mass Effect, but I just really doubt it.

Agree, the Universe it's just to big for that kind of interaction. And we have no solid theory that could actually make us to believe that it's possible to travel so easily like in Mass Effect. In fact quite the opposite.

Chances are that Human Space Conquest will be a mix of 2001 Space Odissey and The Forever War.
Or even like Mass Effect BEFORE the discovering of the protheans and the mass relays.

 In real world i think that humanity will:

1º: Start to discover Planets that COULD have life (the search has already started and bringed some results).
2º: Eventually we will find life in Europe or perhaps fossils of bacterias on Mars (that once had water).
3º: If we have lucky, one day projects like the one at SETI will discover a signal that after serious analysis would be confirmed as "extraterrestial origin". Then we wouls spend probably a lot of time figuring out what the hell says and answer something that will take hundreds of years to arrive, and hundreds of years to come back as a new answer. For example, let's say the Aliens live 100 lightyears away. That would mean we would have to wait at least 200 years for getting an answer to what we send.

does seti use light raves or radio waves

SETI uses radio telescopes such as the one in the Arecibo Observatory.

Modifié par G Kevin, 06 avril 2012 - 07:57 .

[Daennikus]

pistolols wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

lol just in the first 45 seconds he makes a condescending comment about "1 or 2 witness's". 

Within a year after Carl Sagan died, a giant triangle thing was seen hovering over Phoenix arizona by thousands of people, including then governor of the state. 

Sagan was a smart guy but he was mistaken.

Thank you.

I would say that he wasn't presented with the entire truth, and his cartesian mind held him back. I come from a family of biologists and mathematicians, so I know what it feels like to be told that one thing is possible, because otherwise it would be wrong.

Intellectual boundaries are the plague of our civilisations. Whether we blind ourselves with religious dogma or willingly shield our beliefs with old preconcepts... It's how we manage to adjust to the hugeness of the universe, how mind-blowingly lucky we are to be what we are. What's even more baffling is that we refuse to acknowledge how alien we are ourselves, compared to the rest of all life on Earth. 

[Leozilla]

Zix13 wrote...

It's likely, but the existence of intelligent alien life is far less likely.

it may be far less likely but one precent out of 100 billion is still a billion.

[Pottumuusi]

Daennikus wrote...

pistolols wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

lol just in the first 45 seconds he makes a condescending comment about "1 or 2 witness's". 

Within a year after Carl Sagan died, a giant triangle thing was seen hovering over Phoenix arizona by thousands of people, including then governor of the state. 

Sagan was a smart guy but he was mistaken.

Thank you.

I would say that he wasn't presented with the entire truth, and his cartesian mind held him back. I come from a family of biologists and mathematicians, so I know what it feels like to be told that one thing is possible, because otherwise it would be wrong.

Intellectual boundaries are the plague of our civilisations. Whether we blind ourselves with religious dogma or willingly shield our beliefs with old preconcepts... It's how we manage to adjust to the hugeness of the universe, how mind-blowingly lucky we are to be what we are. What's even more baffling is that we refuse to acknowledge how alien we are ourselves, compared to the rest of all life on Earth. 

What truth?

There is no truth about aliens visiting earth, no matter how many people see vague lights in the sky, not before a goddamn saucer lands itself on the front lawn of the white house.

[stabbykitteh]

Canned Bullets wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

Well, we'll need FTL technology to colonize other planets in 400 years because we're expected to run out of resources completely by 2432. Hopefully by then we would have had sufficient space defenses like a powerful Navy.

More likely that we will develop large ships that can sustain several generations of humans. Much like the Quarian liveships. The technology to do so already exists, and the research is being done. If the moon does in fact hold large amounts of water the low gravity would allow us to build vessels large enough and launch them from there.


The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us. - Bill Waterston

Modifié par Flummox, 06 avril 2012 - 08:07 .

[Leozilla]

NovaM4 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

What would you do if you find intelligent life for the first time??
kill it?
Noo ofc not!

well if they are hostile it's kill or be killed and just not one person but our entire spieces, I hope when we find them it's like Mass Effect, rather than Halo

[Sesshaku]

pistolols wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

I agree with the OP, chances that we are alone on this vast universe are small.

However, when speaking of UFO and that kind of bs. I must say i disagree completly. I think that there's no reason or evidence to believe we have ever been visited by aliens, and im pretty sure that its more likely to have a conversation over the centuries that actually seing them.

Carl Sagan pretty much explained the problems with UFO and Real Science.

lol just in the first 45 seconds he makes a condescending comment about "1 or 2 witness's". 

Within a year after Carl Sagan died, a giant triangle thing was seen hovering over Phoenix arizona by thousands of people, including then governor of the state. 

Sagan was a smart guy but he was mistaken.

He was human and a scientist on the XX century, every message that's 20 years old its outdated.

However, he was not mistaken.

He was telling "look guys, i really want humanity to find aliens, but all i know about the cosmos and all the research i made about these UFO's showed me that it's not likely to be real"


The Triangle thing on the sky doesn't have to be aliens ships.

First of all:

- No matter how advanced the civilization is, travelling through space it's not a simple task. The distances are HUUUUUUGEEEE. The dangers are incredible high. There's no way a ship that small could travel all the way here at speed light. But let's assume its a robot and that has some magic engines that allow them to have so much energy/fuel to do that awesome moves.

There have been many MANY scientist studing all these reports and not even one concluded that they were aliens. In fact, most of them found evidence that it was either a scam or a already known phenomenon.

Also, most of the UFO supporters believe that the US goverment knows all about this and they're not willing to tell anyone.

Well, with all due respect, USA it's not the only country in the world. And i have no reason to believe that something as big as this could have avoided REAL leaks for more than 1 century. I mean, we have wikileaks about corruption and espionage but not even one scientist that rebels against the system and give humanity answers?.

C'mon, there a LOT of dedicated people trying to find life on other planets. They're far more intelligent on the fields of astronomy, physics, and exobiology that anyone of us. Give those guys some credit when they say: "UFOS have not any real support on evidence". 

Finally, about those "eyewitnesses"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xag3oOzvU68

Modifié par Sesshaku, 06 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[I am KROGAN]

There has to be something out there, the universe is just too big.

Saw this the other day and it gives a good... perspective I guess would be the word, on how freaking big the universe actually is. 

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING OUT THERE!

[Pottumuusi]

I am KROGAN wrote...

There has to be something out there, the universe is just too big.

Saw this the other day and it gives a good... perspective I guess would be the word, on how freaking big the universe actually is. 

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING OUT THERE!

http://en.wikipedia....ltra-Deep_Field

[stabbykitteh]

Pottumuusi wrote...

I am KROGAN wrote...

There has to be something out there, the universe is just too big.

Saw this the other day and it gives a good... perspective I guess would be the word, on how freaking big the universe actually is. 

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING OUT THERE!

http://en.wikipedia....ltra-Deep_Field

Mindblowing isn't it? That Hubble was such a waste of money

[inko1nsiderate]

Ugh... so clear that people on here don't really know the history of 20th century Physics. The transition to quantum mechanics was the last, big, paradigm shift. But it doesn't 'throw out' Newton's laws, it just refines their level of applicability.

FTL travel might be possible, and is in fact possible in certain solutions to General Relativity. The problem is that:

a) To make wormholes stable you need negative energy density. This requires exotic particles. Only theories I am aware of that have these are certain String Theory models. But there are technical aspects about wormholes... like the fact that the idea of 'creating them' doesn't... make... sense.  As far as I am aware, they should just be natural features of universal structure.  It is hard to see how you could dynamically create and destroy them without having some sort of FTL magic to begin with.

The amount of mass it takes to create so-called 'warp drive' metrics of spacetime is ... insane. You'd pretty much have to collapse Jupiter into a tiny volume to get any noticeable effect.

At this point, people say 'that is only our current understanding!'. Yes, but herein lies the problem: experimental constraints on current physics are so good. To get new behavior that we don't know about, you need new physics. But the new physics has to interact with the old physics at some scale, right? That is how we found Quantum: eventually Newton's laws stopped giving results that agreed with experiment. Think of it this way: hardly anything that happens at the electroweak symmetry breaking scale has any relevance when you build a solid state drive, and it has only a few noticeable effects at 'low energy' and mostly only nuclear decay. The higher energy scale you probe, the more important electroweak theory gets. But these are at energies that are pretty high, hence why we call particle physics 'High Energy physics'. This energy scale is only on the few hundreds of GeV, around the mass of the Z boson, yet the energy scale the LHC is probing is on the order of several TeV. Yet we haven't found anything that isn't explained by the Standard Model. Not only that, but we have astrophysical constraints, cosmological constraints, rare decay constraints, etc etc.

If you are going to find new physics, it has to be made consistent with these constraints, otherwise your theory is no good as it doesn't agree with experiment. These constraints are so good, that this is even really hard to do for theories that aren't particularly exotic. Supersymmetry isn't exotic, as it doesn't allow new FTL, yet even SUSY has pretty strong constraints on it.

And that being said, the only way you could get FTL travel without the impractical to make warp drive (impractical based on the sheer amount of mass it requires), is in a theory that breaks Lorentz Invariance. Problem is, our current observations need it pretty strongly, so that in the very least puts constraints on how strongly this Lorentz Invariance can be broken. With some experiments with gamma rays in space, we don't see any evidence for this down to a certain scale, such a small scale that the idea is heavily constrained.

People just don't get how physics works. I am sure in 100 years we will have crazy technology, but the kind of paradigm shift that people are talking about in threads like this is... just not really grounded historically. Sure, it might qualitatively look the same, but you really need to look at the technical details.

I can't think of an idea that has been experimentally backed and widely believed and then thrown out in pretty much the entire history of physics, let alone in 20th century physics. For FTL to be possible, we'd have to basically say 'all past experiments were wrong'. That hasn't really happened. I don't see why anyone should expect that this must happen, particularly not if they want to ground their ideas in the history of physics.

/end rant

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 06 avril 2012 - 08:14 .

[SealKudos]

To think we are the only intelligent life in the Galaxy seems, well, arrogant. We were very lucky. Who's to say no other civilization was? Actually, what if it wasn't even luck?

Hell, who's to say some other ancient civilization didn't finish off the already dying dinosaurs and plow the way for our civilization?

Stupid conspiracy theory, I know, but the fact of the matter is, we just do not know. People collect facts and gather them and make these educated guesses, yes, but we still don't know. We are not advanced - far from it. We are animals; I'd go so far as to say an evolutionary mistake. If there is a far advanced culture out there, maybe even keeping an eye on us, who could say it wasn't so?

Like I said, to assume we're the smartest or the luckiest is arrogant, and perhaps more than a little ignorant.

[Canned Bullets]

Flummox wrote...

Canned Bullets wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

Well, we'll need FTL technology to colonize other planets in 400 years because we're expected to run out of resources completely by 2432. Hopefully by then we would have had sufficient space defenses like a powerful Navy.

More likely that we will develop large ships that can sustain several generations of humans. Much like the Quarian liveships. The technology to do so already exists, and the research is being done. If the moon does in fact hold large amounts of water the low gravity would allow us to build vessels large enough and launch them from there.


The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us. - Bill Waterston

I still like the idea of developing FTL travel to colonize planets. I don't know what it's called but it's possible for a subatomic particle to stay in place while the area around it is traveling faster than light. It would be cool if that could be incorporated on a space ship.

[Sesshaku]

Flummox wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

I am KROGAN wrote...

There has to be something out there, the universe is just too big.

Saw this the other day and it gives a good... perspective I guess would be the word, on how freaking big the universe actually is. 

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING OUT THERE!

http://en.wikipedia....ltra-Deep_Field

Mindblowing isn't it? That Hubble was such a waste of money

Yeah, too bad they didn't cancelled James Webb Telescope :whistle:.

[Pottumuusi]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

FTL travel might be possible, and is in fact possible in certain solutions to General Relativity. The problem is that:

a) To make wormholes stable you need negative energy density. This requires exotic particles. Only theories I am aware of that have these are certain String Theory models. But there are technical aspects about wormholes... like the fact that the idea of 'creating them' doesn't... make... sense.

The amount of mass it takes to create so-called 'warp drive' metrics of spacetime is ... insane. You'd pretty much have to collapse Jupiter into a tiny volume to get any noticeable effect.

I feel obligated to point out that in these sort of 'warp drives' you wouldn't actually be travelling FTL locally.

[inko1nsiderate]

Pottumuusi wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

FTL travel might be possible, and is in fact possible in certain solutions to General Relativity. The problem is that:

a) To make wormholes stable you need negative energy density. This requires exotic particles. Only theories I am aware of that have these are certain String Theory models. But there are technical aspects about wormholes... like the fact that the idea of 'creating them' doesn't... make... sense.

The amount of mass it takes to create so-called 'warp drive' metrics of spacetime is ... insane. You'd pretty much have to collapse Jupiter into a tiny volume to get any noticeable effect.

I feel obligated to point out that in these sort of 'warp drives' you wouldn't actually be travelling FTL locally.

Yes, so of course there are technical problems with that, right?  If I remember correctly, there are issues at the boundary in these geometries with the local and global motion.

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 06 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[G Kevin]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Ugh... so clear that people on here don't really know the history of 20th century Physics. The transition to quantum mechanics was the last, big, paradigm shift. But it doesn't 'throw out' Newton's laws, it just refines their level of applicability.

FTL travel might be possible, and is in fact possible in certain solutions to General Relativity. The problem is that:

a) To make wormholes stable you need negative energy density. This requires exotic particles. Only theories I am aware of that have these are certain String Theory models. But there are technical aspects about wormholes... like the fact that the idea of 'creating them' doesn't... make... sense.  As far as I am aware, they should just be natural features of universal structure.  It is hard to see how you could dynamically create and destroy them without having some sort of FTL magic to begin with.

The amount of mass it takes to create so-called 'warp drive' metrics of spacetime is ... insane. You'd pretty much have to collapse Jupiter into a tiny volume to get any noticeable effect.

At this point, people say 'that is only our current understanding!'. Yes, but herein lies the problem: experimental constraints on current physics are so good. To get new behavior that we don't know about, you need new physics. But the new physics has to interact with the old physics at some scale, right? That is how we found Quantum: eventually Newton's laws stopped giving results that agreed with experiment. Think of it this way: hardly anything that happens at the electroweak symmetry breaking scale has any relevance when you build a solid state drive, and it has very small effects. The higher energy scale you probe, the more important electroweak theory gets. But these are at energies that are pretty high, hence why we call particle physics 'High Energy physics'. This energy scale is only on the few hundreds of GeV, around the mass of the Z boson, yet the energy scale the LHC is probing is on the order of several TeV. Yet we haven't found anything that isn't explained by the Standard Model. Not only that, but we have astrophysical constraints, cosmological constraints, rare decay constraints, etc etc.

If you are going to find new physics, it has to be made consistent with these constraints, otherwise your theory is no good as it doesn't agree with experiment. These constraints are so good, that this is even really hard to do for theories that aren't particularly exotic. Supersymmetry isn't exotic, as it doesn't allow new FTL, yet even SUSY has pretty strong constraints on it.

And that being said, the only way you could get FTL travel without the impractical to make warp drive (impractical based on the sheer amount of mass it requires), is in a theory that breaks Lorentz Invariance. Problem is, our current observations need it pretty strongly, so that in the very least puts constraints on how strongly this Lorentz Invariance can be broken. With some experiments with gamma rays in space, we don't see any evidence for this down to a certain scale, such a small scale that the idea is heavily constrained.

People just don't get how physics works. I am sure in 100 years we will have crazy technology, but the kind of paradigm shift that people are talking about in threads like this is... just not really grounded historically. Sure, it might qualitatively look the same, but you really need to look at the technical details.

I can't think of an idea that has been experimentally backed and widely believed and then thrown out in pretty much the entire history of physics, let alone in 20th century physics. For FTL to be possible, we'd have to basically say 'all past experiments were wrong'. That hasn't really happened. I don't see why anyone should expect that this must happen, particularly not if they want to ground their ideas in the history of physics.

/end rant

Some new concept is probably out there, undiscovered that will "update" our understanding of physics.

Plus if FTL travel does through out past experiments, you can always make exceptions until further understanding explains it. It seems impossible now with what we know but it could also be tied with a physical concept that we have not discovered yet. in time, we will find something.

[BatmanPWNS]

I'll laugh the day we find an alien specie that still has slavery, walks around naked and eat each other.
Wonder how humans would react?

[inko1nsiderate]

G Kevin wrote...

Some new concept is probably out there, undiscovered that will "update" our understanding of physics.

Plus if FTL travel does through out past experiments, you can always make exceptions until further understanding explains it. It seems impossible now with what we know but it could also be tied with a physical concept that we have not discovered yet. in time, we will find something.

...I get the idea you didn't read what I wrote.

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 06 avril 2012 - 08:19 .

[StarGateGod]

G Kevin wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

warrior256 wrote...

I'll be honest. I'm a bit of a skeptic about alien life. At the very least, I don't believe there are advanced alien civilizations out there that have visited Earth before. I'm not saying that there are no aliens, I just don't think there is some sort of galatic government out there that rules over all known species in the galaxy.

I would like for some sort of galatic civilization to exist like in Mass Effect, but I just really doubt it.

Agree, the Universe it's just to big for that kind of interaction. And we have no solid theory that could actually make us to believe that it's possible to travel so easily like in Mass Effect. In fact quite the opposite.

Chances are that Human Space Conquest will be a mix of 2001 Space Odissey and The Forever War.
Or even like Mass Effect BEFORE the discovering of the protheans and the mass relays.

 In real world i think that humanity will:

1º: Start to discover Planets that COULD have life (the search has already started and bringed some results).
2º: Eventually we will find life in Europe or perhaps fossils of bacterias on Mars (that once had water).
3º: If we have lucky, one day projects like the one at SETI will discover a signal that after serious analysis would be confirmed as "extraterrestial origin". Then we wouls spend probably a lot of time figuring out what the hell says and answer something that will take hundreds of years to arrive, and hundreds of years to come back as a new answer. For example, let's say the Aliens live 100 lightyears away. That would mean we would have to wait at least 200 years for getting an answer to what we send.

does seti use light raves or radio waves

SETI uses radio telescopes such as the one in the Arecibo Observatory.

that what i though, so then 100light uyears away would take thouasands of years each way

[Pottumuusi]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I'll laugh the day we find an alien specie that still has slavery, walks around naked and eat each other.
Wonder how humans would react?

Probably scoff at their barbarism, since we've never done anything like that.