282 réponses à ce sujet

[NovaM4]

Cogneter wrote...

While I condemn OP for posting in the wrong forum, I still agree with some/most of his points. When I was younger, I wanted to become a scientist for the same reasons (advancement of human race, including in space), but, when I tried, I ultimately failed (couldn't hold all the physics in my head). Became a programmer instead.

I still greatly respect each and every scientist who advances humanity, because we basically own these guys everything: electricity, phones, computers, insert-your-favourite-device-here. Apparently, not many people realise that and instead they worship "pop-stars" (Justin Bieber anyone?). I'm glad to know there are still people who realise there are serious issues with this world.

As for alien life, I'm more inclined to believe that it either hasn't developed up to the point of galaxy-wide travel (being technologically on a par with humans), or their civilization is yet less advances than humans. There is also the worst-case scenario where FTL travel is physically impossible and every species is stuck in their solar system.

Either way, I believe that, before we make Contact, we are the ones who have to make the first step by colonizing nearby star systems (and we haven't even started colonizing Sol). Until then, we are apparently stuck alone, worshipping Justin Bieber.

I agree with everything you just said.

[Armass81]

For what its worth, I think theyre already here.

[NovaM4]

Armass81 wrote...

For what its worth, I think theyre already here.

Maybe we are aliens that came from Mars because Mars wasn't livable anymore. Or life came from mars with a meteorite. We will never know i think. But i think we were all just bacteria and evolved

[Legendaryred]

I'm more worried about humanity actually making it another 1000 years without bombig ourselves into oblivion.

[NovaM4]

Legendaryred wrote...

I'm more worried about humanity actually making it another 1000 years without bombig ourselves into oblivion.

Yeah me too. What will probably happen.. And no evidence of Humanity is left so nobody knows Humanity ever existed.

[azerSheppard]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

A logical conclusion, intelligence often leads to terrible deeds at some point, with intention or otherwise, and to achieve  a galactic civilization one must be agressive and invasive by nature.

This has been seen througout human history:wizard:

[Pottumuusi]

Armass81 wrote...

For what its worth, I think theyre already here.

Prove it.

[Hexxys]

It's more unlikely that we are alone in the universe. The problem is the distance between systems is so vast that it'd take longer than ****** sapiens have even existed for us to get any sign of it. And that's just in our relatively immediate surroundings in the milky way.

Consider that even the CLOSEST system to us, Alpha Centauri, is well over four light years away from us. Yes, light and radio emissions from the closest possible system to us takes four years to reach us. Next, consider that the milky way is well over 100,000 light years in diameter. Since that is a conservative estimate, it's safe to say that radio waves from the opposite edge of the milky way take a hundred thousand years to reach us. Humans as we know them have existed for MAYBE half of that. Now consider that the closest galaxy to us, the Andromeda galaxy, is 2.6 million light years away from us. Our CLOSEST neighbor galaxy could have been completely eradicated a million years ago and we'd STILL have no idea for another 1.6 millions years. NOW, consider there are hundreds of billions of other galaxies, millions or billions of light years apart.

The furthest *known* objects are 13 billion light years away from us. Earth didn't even EXIST when the light we can detect from these sources was emitted. Hell, the universe ITSELF barely existed at that point(on an astronomical timescale, anyway). And humans have had the technology to detect radio waves-- one of our essential tools for astrology-- for, what, just over a hundred years? Even if we could stabilize worm holes to any point in the universe, we could search for millions of years and never find anything even if there were a thousand other equally advanced civilizations in the universe.

Are we a alone? I highly doubt it. In fact, I'd say it's impossible that we are 100% alone. However, people usually grossly underestimate just how insurmountably huge the universe is.

[Fulgrim88]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but I think one of the biggest issues with alien life is not just the distance in space, but the distance in "time" - e.g. very different stages of development.

As has been stated, It's pretty much a mathematical certainty that there is alien life. However, the chance of intelligent life is drastically smaller. To have that intelligent life being in our direct galactic vicinity is smaller still.

And even then, you have to consider development. Look at the leap that humanity has taken in the last ~500 years alone. Ever since, technology has been raising exponentially. Especially during the last ~100years.
In galactic and evolutional terms, that's NOTHING.

The classical sci-fi Idea of humanity exploring the galaxy and meeting all sorts of roughly technologically equal races holds no water. It's far more likely that they are advanced beyond our comprehension, or that their forebears are just yet starting to climb down whatever tree they used to live on until now.

It's the tragedy of the situation that alien life is at the same time extremely likely, and contact with them so very improbable

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 07 avril 2012 - 08:54 .

[lillitheris]

Arl Raylen wrote...
As stated in the Fermi Paradox, a semi advanced spacefaring society could populate the entire Galaxy with Von Neumann probes over several million years. Since Earth was formed billions of years after the Milky Way was already established, intelligent life should have already colonized the entire galaxy.

So then a few possible conclusions are:

Galactic Civilization arose but became extinct before Humans advanced.

Humans are the first intelligent species and will establish Galactic Civilization.

Humans are alone.

Right, or maybe they just don't see the point of colonizing the entire galaxy if it takes a million years to get someplace, or even sending out mechanical probes for the same reason – and the fear that someone hostile would notice them.

I'd imagine that without FTL, it'd be better to stick to your interstellar neighborhood, make sure it's well-defended and so on, and concentrate resources on researching faster travel.

We could also indeed be among the first civilizations. It's very improbable – but not impossible – that habitable conditions only really started appearing around the same time as Earth.

…

Also, I have to clarify that Hawking didn't say aliens would be hostile. He said that there's almost certainly life out there, but it might be to risky to seek it out or come in contact with it, because there's a very real possibility that it A) would be hostile or could cause problems accidentally.

[mr.surv]

NovaM4 wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

I'm more worried about humanity actually making it another 1000 years without bombig ourselves into oblivion.

Yeah me too. What will probably happen.. And no evidence of Humanity is left so nobody knows Humanity ever existed.

Maybe not bombing ourselves,  but wars are the best way to push technology forward.

Theres one major problem with our planet.

We have different cultures in different place on planet. What are the chances that aliens contact with USA, GB, Europe , than islamic countries?

I mean even if they make contact with humans, there are very little chances that politicians or generals will show it to the whole world.

.... my english suck... i know hope you understand my point of view.

[Hexxys]

It's weird to know that there ARE probably other forms of life out there, who are thinking the same thing about us, but we're completely unable to communicate with or even perceive each other in the least.

Sounds like the end of ME3 actually.

Also, the fermi paradox is based on so many assumptive or downright fallacious pretenses that I don't know how anyone can take it seriously.

Modifié par Hexxys, 07 avril 2012 - 09:02 .

[lillitheris]

Fulgrim88 wrote...
It's the tragedy of the situation that alien life is at the same time extremely likely, and contact with them so very improbable

Well…you have a point, but 1:1000000000 is still a lot when your N is 10000000000000000000000000 No, I didn't count the zeroes.

Also, while the time scales are tight, you're right, there're two things of note:

1. Advancement may not be infinite. That is, let's say we become N times more advanced we currently are – but that's it. It's just a plateau after that; and

2. While the initial time scale is indeed very narrow, especially in case of 1., it's potentially got a looooooooooooong tail.

[Pottumuusi]

mr.surv wrote...

NovaM4 wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

I'm more worried about humanity actually making it another 1000 years without bombig ourselves into oblivion.

Yeah me too. What will probably happen.. And no evidence of Humanity is left so nobody knows Humanity ever existed.

Maybe not bombing ourselves,  but wars are the best way to push technology forward.

Theres one major problem with our planet.

We have different cultures in different place on planet. What are the chances that aliens contact with USA, GB, Europe , than islamic countries?

I mean even if they make contact with humans, there are very little chances that politicians or generals will show it to the whole world.

.... my english suck... i know hope you understand my point of view.

If they're advanced enough to come over here they can probably figure out that it's a better idea to land outside the White House or the UN Headquarters rather than the Kaaba.

[Fulgrim88]

lillitheris wrote...
Also, I have to clarify that Hawking didn't say aliens would be hostile. He said that there's almost certainly life out there, but it might be to risky to seek it out or come in contact with it, because there's a very real possibility that it A) would be hostile or could cause problems accidentally.

The point he was making, is that any alien civilisation advanced enough to notice our attempts at contact, is likely to be more advanced than we are - hence dangerous.

[toolfan9284]

14 hrs...really?! Are the mods asleep? Hey Stan, where you at dawg?

[Fulgrim88]

toolfan9284 wrote...

14 hrs...really?! Are the mods asleep? Hey Stan, where you at dawg?

If I'd be in their shoes right now, I'd be more than happy to have a topic not about ME3 for once.

Seriously, off topic stuff like this is still closer to constructive discussion than anything else at the moment

[Eain]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

He may just aswell be referring to us with that. I'm sure humanity wouldn't be the greatest pal a spacefaring species could run into either.

[Hexxys]

In the time that we've used radio waves as communication, this is the current area that alien species would have to reside in to take notice of it:

zidbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/how-far-in-space-our-radio-broadcasts-reach1.jpg

Modifié par Hexxys, 07 avril 2012 - 09:07 .

[mr.surv]

I doubt that radio broadcast will help us contact with other species.
It's very limited and primitive. We must develop other forms of communicate.

I just wonder why we don't go to Moon nowadays.
Even my washing mashine is more sophisticated than Apollo 11 main computer.

Now when technology is more advanced we could investigate more things on Moon.

Still, we don't have engine tech to reach Mars

[Fulgrim88]

Hexxys wrote...

In the time that we've used radio waves as communication, this is the current area that alien species would have to reside in to take notice of it:

zidbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/how-far-in-space-our-radio-broadcasts-reach1.jpg

Another nice reminder of just how mindboggingly huge the universe is.

Still, we could have it worse. If humanity happens to survive the next thousand years (and Einstein is proven wrong), we might have a chance to find something in our vicinity. We are in one of the more dense parts of our particular galaxy at least. (Pity the poor buggers living in the far left of your picture)

Anyway, what would you guys think would be the impact on technological development if a race were to develop in a system with two garden worlds?

This isn't all that unlikely, actually. However, I don't know if two worlds orbiting their star in almost identical conditions would also increase the likelihood of intelligent life on both (which would certainly make for an even more interesting scenario).

In any case, they'd most likely be locked in almost opposite positions orbiting their star, as to maintain a more or less similiar place in the habitable zone and not disturb the other's . So there'd be no "jumping over" with moonlanding level technology

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 07 avril 2012 - 09:26 .

[Pottumuusi]

I doubt that radio broadcast will help us contact with other species.
It's very limited and primitive. We must develop other forms of communicate.

Such as? Light is as fast as it goes.

I just wonder why we don't go to Moon nowadays.
Even my washing mashine is more sophisticated than Apollo 11 main computer.

Now when technology is more advanced we could investigate more things on Moon.

Because it costs too much money to go there versus the benefits, and we don't actually have to physically go there to do research.

Still, we don't have engine tech to reach Mars

In fact we do. We send remote controlled rovers there all the time. Curiosity is on it's way there right now, it's supposed to land this summer if I recall correctly.

A manned mission will be much more difficult however, but NASA expects to get it done by 2030.

Modifié par Pottumuusi, 07 avril 2012 - 09:31 .

[mr.surv]

Juromaro wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

If I was confined to a chair, unable to use the restroom like a normal person.....I'd think all things were hostile as well.

Still S.Hawking is the person who I admire so much.

Whenever I've got problems with chemistry or biology ( preparing for final exams for medical university ) I just think myself " S.Hawking can't speak, do anything around him  but still he's a amazing with physics, and I can't do simple chemistry problem.... no way! "

His books and theories are very interesting, and written for simple persons who don't understand all physics theories etc.

[killnoob]

i hope they look as hot as Liara