282 réponses à ce sujet

[Pottumuusi]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Anyway, what would you guys think would be the impact on technological development if a race were to develop in a system with two garden worlds?

Hell, we live in such a system. Mars has most definitely had liquid water, a thicker atmosphere and a magnetic field of it's own at some point in history. It just kind of died before we came along.

[MstrJedi Kyle]

The best proof of a more intelligent species existing in space is that they have not made contact with humanity.

[NovaM4]

Pottumuusi. You have very nice theories and explanations about the Galaxy. What is your job?

Btw. Humans will maybe try to insert the Greenhouse Effect to Mars to make it a garden world.
And they have also found a new particle that travels faster than light. (i don't know aht that is called)

[Pottumuusi]

NovaM4 wrote...

Pottumuusi. You have very nice theories and explanations about the Galaxy. What is your job?

Btw. Humans will maybe try to insert the Greenhouse Effect to Mars to make it a garden world.
And they have also found a new particle that travels faster than light. (i don't know aht that is called)

I'm a high school student(or what is roughly equivalent to high school here in Finland.)


You're probably talking about the neutrinos at CERN/Gran Sasso.

Yeah, they seemed to be travelling at superluminal speeds, but recently they found out that one of their cables was loose and it produced an error of 60 nanoseconds or some such. There are some other potential measurement problems they have that could still make them go faster than light, but all the other neutrinos that are observed in nature go at their expected speeds, so that seems highly unlikely.

[NovaM4]

Pottumuusi wrote...

NovaM4 wrote...

Pottumuusi. You have very nice theories and explanations about the Galaxy. What is your job?

Btw. Humans will maybe try to insert the Greenhouse Effect to Mars to make it a garden world.
And they have also found a new particle that travels faster than light. (i don't know aht that is called)

I'm a high school student(or what is roughly equivalent to high school here in Finland.)


You're probably talking about the neutrinos at CERN/Gran Sasso.

Yeah, they seemed to be travelling at superluminal speeds, but recently they found out that one of their cables was loose and it produced an error of 60 nanoseconds or some such. There are some other potential measurement problems they have that could still make them go faster than light, but all the other neutrinos that are observed in nature go at their expected speeds, so that seems highly unlikely.

yeah they had that problem but i tought that was with another particle. Nevermind then.
Do you think it is possible to travel a little faster then light? Because at the moment. You can't travel faster than light. But can you travel as fast as light or a little slower?

[Pottumuusi]

NovaM4 wrote...

yeah they had that problem but i tought that was with another particle. Nevermind then.
Do you think it is possible to travel a little faster then light? Because at the moment. You can't travel faster than light. But can you travel as fast as light or a little slower?

Well, the problem is that we have mass, and things with mass can't travel at the speed of light.
Things with mass can however travel close to speed of light. Neutrinos, for example, were long thought to be massless because they travel so close to the speed of light.
Their mass is actually not well known, it's very small but non-zero, the reason for this is that there are different kinds or 'flavors' of neutrinos and they can oscillate between them, and only particles with mass can concievably do so.
So, things with mass can actually get arbitrarily close to the speed of light, but it takes a pretty ridiculous amount of energy to do so.

In short, massive particles travel at  < C and massless particles travel at C .

[GorrilaKing]

If you meant Tachyons, the jury's still out on that one.
Direct FTL would be next to impossible due to what we know (it would take limitless energy to accelerate matter to that point) but in time we might find ways to cheat and get around this limitation.
I am a firm believer in the existance of intelligent life. Despite Fermi's Paradox(to which I am inlcined to respond with "the absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence"), it is statistically impossible for life not to exist somewhere out there. And since intelligence is a great tool for survival, I am fairly certain some other species has evolved that far.
While I am not as pessimistic as Hawking and assume they would be hostile to us, I do think there would be a lot of mistrust between us and them.

On another note...I firmly believe the reason people so desperately want to believe in aliens coming down to save us is because we, as a race, have lost faith in ourselves. We have become so jaded we no longer believe we can solve our problems on our own. Pity, really

[Prosarian]

Perhaps there is intelligent life, but they just haven't gotten over the hurdle of FTL travel. From a cost-benefit point of view, the only reason they'd have to make contact with us would be if they were planning to strip Earth of her resources. Or something.

[NovaM4]

Pottumuusi wrote...

NovaM4 wrote...

yeah they had that problem but i tought that was with another particle. Nevermind then.
Do you think it is possible to travel a little faster then light? Because at the moment. You can't travel faster than light. But can you travel as fast as light or a little slower?

Well, the problem is that we have mass, and things with mass can't travel at the speed of light.
Things with mass can however travel close to speed of light. Neutrinos, for example, were long thought to be massless because they travel so close to the speed of light.
Their mass is actually not well known, it's very small but non-zero, the reason for this is that there are different kinds or 'flavors' of neutrinos and they can oscillate between them, and only particles with mass can concievably do so.
So, things with mass can actually get arbitrarily close to the speed of light, but it takes a pretty ridiculous amount of energy to do so.

In short, massive particles travel at  < C and massless particles travel at C .

Ah i see. But there may be another idea. but they need a negative energy/element. Something like element zero. And the idea is a Warp drive. The laws of physics say this maybe can be right. But the best option right now is wormholes. If they are here. But we can build one ourselves. But they can dissapear. That means we are stuck at the end of the Wormhole. So then we need Negative energy again.. IF it exists..

[GorrilaKing]

Prosarian wrote...

Perhaps there is intelligent life, but they just haven't gotten over the hurdle of FTL travel. From a cost-benefit point of view, the only reason they'd have to make contact with us would be if they were planning to strip Earth of her resources. Or something.

But people have done great things for other reasons as well. I know, in our materialistic, profit-centered society the idea is utterly alien to most but it has happened.

Modifié par GorrilaKing, 07 avril 2012 - 10:15 .

[DJBare]

DarthKilby wrote...

The best proof of a more intelligent species existing in space is that they have not made contact with humanity.

Yep, that's about right.

But I note a lot of people saying "more intelligent" and I've never quite understood why, the most likely scenario is that intelligent life is on level par with us, therefore they are as stuck as we are until they\\we can develope something like FTL, and it's unlikely we would detect radio transmissions since any we recieve would need to have been sent probably 1000s of years ago long before radio was invented, in case you did not quite get that last bit, I already mentioned the most advanced civilization would be on level par with us.

Modifié par DJBare, 07 avril 2012 - 10:16 .

[SandMan2012]

G Kevin wrote...

MaskofSkin wrote...

The sooner we discover life, the sooner we stop referring to ourselves by country, religion and political ideology and start referring to ourselves as Earthlings, the better off we will be,

Exactly. The technology to spaceflight is not far off, it is underfunded. We will travel faster than the speed of light, I promise everyone that. There is nothing that humanity has accomplished without time and effort.

The real question is HOW will we travel at FTL speeds, seeing as based off of everything we have seen, studied, etc, Einstein is still right in that nothing can go faster than light.  That is of course only considering the object to be the thing moving.  If we were find a way to "move space" as well then FTL travel is possible.  However without some rediculous break through we are a long LONG ways off from that tech.  Currently Anti-matter engines are being researched for the manned mission to MARS which would be a tremendous improvement.  

Bottom line, we have a long way to go yet.

[wicked_being]

Read all nine pages, very good posts. It kind of made me sad how FTL or real exploration won't be happening in our lifetime. I think it's possible, but not in our lifetime.

[Leem_0001]

Haven't we only recently discovered some planets that may be inhabitable for us. Sure I saw a news report about that in the last couple of weeks.

Regardless, I think this galaxy alone is so vast then there will be other life out there. Whether is has ventured to earth - different matter entirely lol.

[Leem_0001]

wicked_being wrote...

Read all nine pages, very good posts. It kind of made me sad how FTL or real exploration won't be happening in our lifetime. I think it's possible, but not in our lifetime.

I hear you, kind of bums me out when I think about this stuff and know I won't be around to see some of the truely astonishing things we will discover.

[GorrilaKing]

wicked_being wrote...

Read all nine pages, very good posts. It kind of made me sad how FTL or real exploration won't be happening in our lifetime. I think it's possible, but not in our lifetime.

And that's the real sad part about it. It's what always leaves me a bit sad when a good sf movie is ending.
Is it unreasonable to want to see the wonders of space, no matter how dangerous or hostile they might be?

[Pottumuusi]

SandMan2012 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

MaskofSkin wrote...

The sooner we discover life, the sooner we stop referring to ourselves by country, religion and political ideology and start referring to ourselves as Earthlings, the better off we will be,

Exactly. The technology to spaceflight is not far off, it is underfunded. We will travel faster than the speed of light, I promise everyone that. There is nothing that humanity has accomplished without time and effort.

The real question is HOW will we travel at FTL speeds, seeing as based off of everything we have seen, studied, etc, Einstein is still right in that nothing can go faster than light.  That is of course only considering the object to be the thing moving.  If we were find a way to "move space" as well then FTL travel is possible.  However without some rediculous break through we are a long LONG ways off from that tech.  Currently Anti-matter engines are being researched for the manned mission to MARS which would be a tremendous improvement.  

Bottom line, we have a long way to go yet.

We don't need anything as silly as antimatter engines to go to Mars.
The only real problems with a manned mission are the health risks for the astronauts, technology wise we could up and go there at the drop of a hat.

[Trishot]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.

Not a pleasant thought.

Stephen Hawkings, is a briliant man. But I don't think it is reasonable to assume hostility in every alien species.
There are ofcourse a lot of arguments for this idea. Arguments I cannot easily debunk, if it all. However, call me naïve but I don't think they are all hostile. Plus, I don't believe he thinks they are all hostile either, he does say we should be wary and makes the comparrison of us taking a pig (or any kind of animal) to the slaughter house.


But yea, I like Drake's Equation

[DJBare]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Stephen Hawking said that alien life exists and is hostile.
Not a pleasant thought.

Hawkin read the history of the white man and the Americas, he has every reason to be nervous.
What the hell am I talking about?, quite simply, if there were an alien race advanced enough to travel between stars, they would view us as primitive savages.

Modifié par DJBare, 07 avril 2012 - 10:26 .

[NovaM4]

Pottumuusi wrote...

SandMan2012 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

MaskofSkin wrote...

The sooner we discover life, the sooner we stop referring to ourselves by country, religion and political ideology and start referring to ourselves as Earthlings, the better off we will be,

Exactly. The technology to spaceflight is not far off, it is underfunded. We will travel faster than the speed of light, I promise everyone that. There is nothing that humanity has accomplished without time and effort.

The real question is HOW will we travel at FTL speeds, seeing as based off of everything we have seen, studied, etc, Einstein is still right in that nothing can go faster than light.  That is of course only considering the object to be the thing moving.  If we were find a way to "move space" as well then FTL travel is possible.  However without some rediculous break through we are a long LONG ways off from that tech.  Currently Anti-matter engines are being researched for the manned mission to MARS which would be a tremendous improvement.  

Bottom line, we have a long way to go yet.

We don't need anything as silly as antimatter engines to go to Mars.
The only real problems with a manned mission are the health risks for the astronauts, technology wise we could up and go there at the drop of a hat.

If they need people to go to Mars. I will Volunteer. I swear that by everything i got.

[vertigo72]

I believe there can be some form of life we cannot even imagine. Consider this:

• Ticks can survive in vacuum under high energy electron bombardment
• There are fungis that can "eat" gamma radiation
• There are animals that can live without oxygen

And all those are normal carbon-based life forms, like us. 

Modifié par vertigo72, 07 avril 2012 - 10:32 .

[Pottumuusi]

NovaM4 wrote...

If they need people to go to Mars. I will Volunteer. I swear that by everything i got.

Being the first person to set foot on another planet would be pretty much the most awesome thing ever.

[Merwanor]

Not only is it very likley that there are some kind of alien lifeforms on different planets throughout our galaxy. but then you also have to remember that there are billions of galaxies in the universe, the chance that in one of these galaxies there is a planet with inteligent life is extreamly high. Universe is just to big to deny the existens of alien lifeforms.

[NovaM4]

Pottumuusi wrote...

NovaM4 wrote...

If they need people to go to Mars. I will Volunteer. I swear that by everything i got.

Being the first person to set foot on another planet would be pretty much the most awesome thing ever.

Yeah that's why. And also because im very interrested in all this. For so far. I have read this whole topic. and checked on it every minute. 

And when i am a billionaire. I will donate some of it to NASA or another space company or a science team. Or i will Go to space with a rocket and stay in a space hotel for a few days

[Fulgrim88]

vertigo72 wrote...

I believe there can be some form of life we cannot even imagine. Consider this:

• Ticks can survive in vacuum under high energy electron bombardment
• There are fungis that can "eat" gamma radiation
• There are animals that can live without oxygen

And all those are normal carbon-based life forms, like us. 

Yup, interesting point.

However, those are very small organisms living under very adverse conditions.
It's not unreasonable to assume that intelligent life needs a lot of "good" conditions in order to thrive. The whole system is simply way too complex, thus fragile.

However, "life" can exist pretty much anywhere.  Personally, I'm pretty fond of these guys.