292 réponses à ce sujet

[Diablos2525]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

What is the point of a game if you reduce gameplay more and more to the point it becomes just a movie?

For me I enjoy hand-eye coordination and it is a good part of a game to increase the enjoyability. Without the game aspect Mass Effect would never have been heard of. The game does not sport as much as its first version as far as game play and you want to take more "Play" out of the game?

Not having a boss fight doesn't mean no confrontation, nor does it even mean no gameplay. The problem I have with traditional boss fights is they typically require some sort of mechanic to make the boss seem particularly powerful compared to other people, and often some sort of gimmick. In some cases it works fine, but in other cases it doesn't.

For people like me, we consider making decisions outside of combat to also be interesting. One more obvious aspect of this is the conversation system. Realizing that I have made decisions and discoveries earlier in a game like Fallout 1, and then using those discoveries when talking with the final boss to prove that his solution is flawed is relatively unique and more interesting than just trading turns shooting at each other.

Heck there is already and option to bypass playing the game. If this is the direction of future games I am done with all games as they have ceased to be games. I play games to face challenges of mostly hand-eye coardination, but love a good story and chose those games over ones without.

I am pretty decent at shooter games that require hand eye coordination, but I also like games that challenge me more mentally than physically. Some games I play the combat is completely automated by the game and my input is determining the strategies of what types of attacks to use, the positioning of my units, and things like that. It's just a different experience.

I wouldn't worry about games that require good hand-eye coordination going away any time soon though.

Having played Shadow of the Colossus and Ico I can say it really swings either way, you can tell a story and have bosses which further that storytelling experience, or you can not have bosses at all and still retain gameplay and a storytelling experience. Both amazing games, but I do prefer shadow of the colossus a little bit more, something about fighting unique and epic bosses just get's me every time. Maybe it's because one of my favorite RPGS was Final Fantasy VII, it was my favorite game before it became cool to be a ff7 fanboy. I got that game close to release and poured hours into it, and their was a huge build up to the confrontation with Sephiroth...ah the nostalgia.

[Evenjelith]

I was expecting a full circle approach with Harbinger 'Assuming Control' of TIM as Sovereign did Saren for the final confrontation. Given that's not an option anymore I hope they DON'T add a boss and the Extended Cut looks something like this:

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Evenjelith, 14 avril 2012 - 12:02 .

[Silasqtx]

NOT having a so called "final boss" is anti-climatic. Picture how we got to the end: progressive waves of enemies, a random beam of death, marauder shields, baffling conversation and then "pick a color".

So much for awesomeness. The last part of the game sucked big time, it really needs a "final boss" just to keep us on edge.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Ehhh, who would be the final boss anyway? TIM? Yeah he simply cannnot stand to Shepard. Have Harbinger Assume Direct Control? I'm not sure that's possible; in both cases where Reapers directly took over bodies (Saren, the Collectors) it was their implants, their very upgrades. TIM didn't install things that allowed the old cuttlefish gang to take over him, I think. Not to mention that would make the Saren 2.0 comments go full circle; I believe TIM shouldn't go down in a boss fight, it's not like Saren, he was never that type of enemy. Furthermore, Saren himself was a Specter, an elite soldier. The Collectors were designed as shock troops from the get-go. Timmy is just a human with a good number of implants, I don't think that even Harby possessing him would make him a match for a fully-powered Shepard. Oh, and while we're at it, that's right, by that point Shepard is limping and barely capable of fighting (Synthesis ending olympic sprint notwhistanding). That would make for a fitting and fun boss fight /sarcasm.

Who else? Harbinger possessing the final Banshee or Brute and making a super-powered version as you fight for the missiles? Rewrite the game so that he doesn't lazor stuff but places a powerful guardian at the beam instead? I see no way to really have a final boss without rewritting the ending, really. Not that this would be a bad thing, mind you, but in Bioware's word it's not gonna happen.

And finally, I don't see an absolute need for a final boss with the arch-nemesis. If you can make it work in story, sure. But right now Shepard's nemesis is a kilometers-long spaceship. Unless we are given control of the Destiny Ascention and assorted ships, pretty much nothing can make this fight anything like doable.

[nullobject]

Will there be a final boss?

I hope not.

Some of the best story based games of recent years were marred by tacked-on final bossfights-for-the-sake-of-bossfights. Bioshock, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Mass Effect 2.

Not having combat in the final showdown with TIM was one of the few things the ME3 ending got right.

Modifié par nullobject, 14 avril 2012 - 01:32 .

[pharsti]

Dont think its needed, theres much worse things that they should work on regarding the end.

[BrowncoatN7]

I hope it's nothing like Yu Yevon, the final boss in Final Fantasy X. It's probably the most pathetic final boss ever. I want a chance to taunt Harbinger back personally, but there are lots of issues about the ending that I care about more.

[Keltikone]

Wow, the forum is utterly infested with Alan Schumacher. The boy utterly deserves a raise for the effort hes putting in.

No sarcasm, he's really doing a great job humanising the company and on his own time. I really wish he'd infect some of the ME guys with his enthusiasm.

[Pewter77]

I find that boss fights end up being very... hmm can't think of a better word than cliche. But that doesn't even accurately describe it. Boss fights always end up you fighting an enemy and like Allan said earlier in this thread that it ends up with a gimmick of some sort. I find that Boss battles are something of an old era of video games or better suited for a different game type. Non-story based games, having a boss seems like something you have to do to create challenge. Although you could say that it is a video game and there should be a bit of challenge to the game for those that want it, I wouldn't necessarily say that it has to be a huge challenge to the game. Its more about... the experience of the game. The experience of the environment, the characters, the story, the lifeblood of the universe.

The Boss battle would be a confrontation in a story based game and not necessarily shoot these bulbs off his head etc. Like the confrontation with TIM.

Edit: Wanted to add that in a book the ultimate goal would to be experience what the writer wants you not to win the reading game per say if that makes sense. Games have moved in a different direction from completely skilled based games to meaningful media that expounds on the world and human nature and I for one think thats awesome.

Modifié par Pewter77, 14 avril 2012 - 02:07 .

[MrNose]

I'm good with no final boss. I would have liked to see Harbinger possess a dude one last time though.

[TreguardD]

I can understand that, but there's a lot of us who wish to demonstrate Righteous Fury on Harbinger's True Form. If you didn't get the Golden Ending of ME2, he's responsible for the one thing no Shepard could forgive. He directly killed members of your crew, possibly even non-combatant members of your crew.

There's a broken bird on the citadel that a lot of us want to assure that nobody well ever go in a tube like that, ever again.

[JosieFrances]

Personally im not really a fan of boss fights I like to just fight enemies that we have. Thats the one thing that annoyed me about Deus Ex, the boss fights.

Great game otherwise though!

[PoisonMushroom]

I don't really care about facing a final boss in game. Some sort of confrontation with Harbinger would be good though.

[Eudaemonium]

lament.ballad wrote...

I hope it's nothing like Yu Yevon, the final boss in Final Fantasy X. It's probably the most pathetic final boss ever. I want a chance to taunt Harbinger back personally, but there are lots of issues about the ending that I care about more.

Yu Yevon wasn't *really* the final boss anymore than that final dual between Sephiroth and Cloud in FF7 was the 'final boss', it was essentially a scripted story battle. The real final boss in FFX was Braska's Final Aeon, which was pretty hard if you hadn't level-built at all (albeit not as relatively hard as Seymour Flux or as cheap as Yunalesca).

[Salfin]

TIM was the final boss, it was just done through dialogue.

I admit they could have made it more difficult of a confrontation, and more then simply a Rengade/Paragon test. But I know I did enjoy it. And there are multiple outcomes to the fight if you will. You can also die if you screw up too badly.

Honestly I liked it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Having played Shadow of the Colossus and Ico I can say it really swings either way, you can tell a story and have bosses which further that storytelling experience, or you can not have bosses at all and still retain gameplay and a storytelling experience. Both amazing games, but I do prefer shadow of the colossus a little bit more, something about fighting unique and epic bosses just get's me every time. Maybe it's because one of my favorite RPGS was Final Fantasy VII, it was my favorite game before it became cool to be a ff7 fanboy. I got that game close to release and poured hours into it, and their was a huge build up to the confrontation with Sephiroth...ah the nostalgia.

Games like Shadow of the Colossus and Ico utilize the big fights as a vehicle to progress the story.  Each one is uniquely created to be a part of the game's core experience.  The game's story focused around the encounters, so it makes sense to make the encounters really well thought out and varied.

I'm not saying "all boss fights are bad" but I don't think they're vital for a game to be a game.  It's just another vehicle a game designer can explore to provide an experience for the gamer.  Not every game is going to benefit from having a large dependency on a rules heavy, skill-based mechanics system either.  I like that sort of stuff in some games, and in other games I don't.

[Zhuinden]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

But Allan, in FONV you did fight a boss at the end, more or less... at least in most endings.

And I loved that I didn't actually have to fight him

Depending on how you built your character, there are ways to completely skip the boss fight.  I was able to use my Speech skill IIRC.

I wouldn't mind if there was the option not to fight the boss.
But I would wish there was the option to fight him.
Kinda like Chrono Trigger, when you're to fight Magus, for example.
You can say whether you want to fight him or not - and that game isn't even about choices!

...though honestly, I'd prefer it even more if there actually was a boss in ME3. I mean, the only real boss is Kai Leng. A massive amount of critters, like 4 Brutes, aren't exactly a "boss fight". On Tuchanka, I killed them all off, and it wasn't too hard either.

[El Capt Mexico]

I decide to take a week off anything Mass Effect to work on my own creative projects and I see this post come back alive. I'm in the middle of reading everyone's posts and I'd like to thank you all for taking interest in this topic.

Oh! And a thank you to Allan Schumacher for taking time to reply to the posts addressing him.

Modifié par El Capt Mexico, 16 avril 2012 - 12:05 .