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So... will there be a Final Boss?


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#51
Auralius Carolus

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Only cutscene then really.. whats the ****ing point in them doing this. .


PR management melded with non-dislosed internal interest. Due to the pathetic state of journalism these days, EA/Bio will get a superficial pat on the back for acting like good sports. Aside from that, when you consider resource cost compared to amendment vs. interest, you end up a relative waste in resources- theoretically.

In other words, the amendment, (extended cut), does not resolve the prodominant issue, (nature of the ending based on cohesion and logic), and will likely suffer deminishing returns given loss of interest between now and summer, on top of an already limited base. The overall impact vs. resource use will likely result in a zero-sum, (i.e., negative), return for this production alone, (keeping some fans is the goal, not initial profit). That suggests that they have something down the line, somehow, that relates to them keeping the ending as it is.

#52
Valk72

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There is already a final boss, and his name is... MARAUDER SHIELD!!

#53
Auralius Carolus

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sirisaacx wrote...

cuzsal wrote...

My thread got locked cause this one was already up i guess so im gona copy paste what I had there

Please add a final boss fight, the final battle in Mass
Effect 2 was just so dam amazing, that I could not wait to see what the final
fight in ME3 would be. But then I got Marauder
Shields then God/Star Child did all of the talking then I saw Space Magic :/ Image IPB
 For the love of Shepard what happened
to Harbinger, was he killed did he eat some bad Human DNA and have a stomach
Ach so was unable to fight in ME3? Was He that reaper that  was shooting a laser at me right before
Marauder Shields or do all Reapers have eyes like that I don't know never heard
anything from him

 Image IPB

he did soooo much talking in ME 2


Image IPB



...Are you serious? The stupid terminator human reaper? That was without a doubt the stupidest part of Mass Effect 2, and it shows what a terrible idea sticking a boss in just to have a boss is.


No, Harbinger is thought to be the first Reaper and is noted for being larger than the others and with glowing "eyes". He was the voice coming through the Controller General "Assuming Direct Control... This hurts you Shepard".

#54
sirisaacx

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Diablos2525 wrote...

The art book that came with my collector's edition indicated that the Illusive Man would have been the final boss in a more reaperized form. The art shows this form, it then goes on to say that the idea was scrapped because it felt too "videogamey." The only problem is THIS IS a video game. I think they did this because so many people complained about the human reaper robot, I don't think it was an amazing boss but that's only because it had no tension built up with the player, whereas Saren did and the Illusive man most certainly did.


By "videogamey", they meant that video games of today often shoehorn in excuses to have boss fights. This is a videogame, yes, but it doesn't have to follow ALL conventions of videogames, because they're not all good conventions. For instance, pretty much every game used to have "game over" screens where you'd have to restart a level a la super mario bros. Nowadays, most games use checkpoints so that you rarely have to do more than a few minutes of gameplay over again. Games are evolving, and boss fights just for the sake of boss fights are on the way out.

What, exactly, would having a bossfight ADD to the narrative of the game?

#55
sirisaacx

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

cuzsal wrote...

My thread got locked cause this one was already up i guess so im gona copy paste what I had there

Please add a final boss fight, the final battle in Mass
Effect 2 was just so dam amazing, that I could not wait to see what the final
fight in ME3 would be. But then I got Marauder
Shields then God/Star Child did all of the talking then I saw Space Magic :/ Image IPB
 For the love of Shepard what happened
to Harbinger, was he killed did he eat some bad Human DNA and have a stomach
Ach so was unable to fight in ME3? Was He that reaper that  was shooting a laser at me right before
Marauder Shields or do all Reapers have eyes like that I don't know never heard
anything from him

 Image IPB

he did soooo much talking in ME 2


Image IPB



...Are you serious? The stupid terminator human reaper? That was without a doubt the stupidest part of Mass Effect 2, and it shows what a terrible idea sticking a boss in just to have a boss is.


No, Harbinger is thought to be the first Reaper and is noted for being larger than the others and with glowing "eyes". He was the voice coming through the Controller General "Assuming Direct Control... This hurts you Shepard".


Nooo I meant the bossfight in ME2 that the poster was referencing. They said it was an amazing bossfight, but I thought it detracted way more than it added.

#56
chris fenton

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Sawtooth357 wrote...

This one respectfully believes that a final boss would make this offering appear far too much like a videogame. It instead hopes for several terabytes of hardcore Geth on Quarian pornographic material.


:?:unsure::sick:

#57
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Last Bosses are so cliche, I'd rather have a battle of the wits than a bloody shootout. Planescape: Torment and Fallout are games that handle 'last bosses' perfectly. Besides, boss fights are always dissapointing... well most of the time.

#58
Laurencio

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dafangirl wrote...

Depends on how you view a final boss? One that the player fights or could it be simply a cinematic fight.

There's some audio files out there where Joker brings in the Normandy and takes out Harbinger. I believe this would have been a great addition to the end sequence of events. Harbinger, after all, is purportedly the leader. Makes complete sense, then, from a strategic war standpoint, to take out the leader, which could defeat, if not seriously diminish, the opposing side's confidence.

I'm hoping that not only the audio files but some "cutting floor" type graphics exist and maybe this might be possible in the Extended Cut DLC.


If Harbringer falls another will take his place, that's the nature of the reapers. They don't stop to reap because Harbringer dies, their entire purpose is to reap.

#59
TekFanX

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I would have loved an end-boss.

Not because any game needs one, but because I really loved the bosses in the first two ME-games.

Saren was great. I saw how he tried to stop Sovereign by taking his own life, only to be entirely consumed and warped by the evil that had a hold of him.
He turned from a Spectre into a monster.
I felt trapped in this small room, being attacked by this abomination, while the creator of it was basically a tower-wall away, oblitering an entire fleet.

In the second game you fight through the base of your enemies. You know it's a suicide-mission.
I admit, I didn't know what to think, when I saw a three-eyed terminator hanging around there, but when that thing suddenly climbed up the pit and stared down at the squad of three people, it made me shiver.
Basically in a pit with something, that could have smashed my Shepard with one "hand".

In ME3, I had horde-mode.
Basically the same enemies I fought for the rest of the game.
But the only feeling I got of some kind right before it all ended, was when my Shepard began to go into cover next to the console instead of activating the missiles.
I agree, that a reaper-TIM would have been awkward.
But having a rematch with a Reaper, especially Harbinger, aboard the Citadel...I really like that thought.
It doesn't have to be the conclusion for the problem of the Reapers, but Harbinger landing on the Citadel saying "I will direct this personally..."...sigh.

#60
nitefyre410

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Only cutscene then really.. whats the ****ing point in them doing this. .


PR management melded with non-dislosed internal interest. Due to the pathetic state of journalism these days, EA/Bio will get a superficial pat on the back for acting like good sports. Aside from that, when you consider resource cost compared to amendment vs. interest, you end up a relative waste in resources- theoretically.

In other words, the amendment, (extended cut), does not resolve the prodominant issue, (nature of the ending based on cohesion and logic), and will likely suffer deminishing returns given loss of interest between now and summer, on top of an already limited base. The overall impact vs. resource use will likely result in a zero-sum, (i.e., negative), return for this production alone, (keeping some fans is the goal, not initial profit). That suggests that they have something down the line, somehow, that relates to them keeping the ending as it is.

 

Something done the line huh... IE another Mass Effect game that I and alot of people won't be buying at all or buying used.  I give it 5 years tops before Bioware disband and shut down by EA.  

You know now I'm starting to understand why companies like Nintendo and  Square Enix are still around.  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 07 avril 2012 - 02:01 .


#61
J-Sheridan

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Fighting Harbringer directly would be stupid and the run up was handled properly to give the scale of what taking one head on is going to achieve.

Make GodChild Harbringer trying to break Shepard and suddenly the whole situation becomes a mental battle between Harbringer and Shepard. The outcome of which could expanded with cutscenes and some dialogue from Harbringer alone.

#62
Auralius Carolus

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sirisaacx wrote...

Nooo I meant the bossfight in ME2 that the poster was referencing. They said it was an amazing bossfight, but I thought it detracted way more than it added.


Ah. Yeah, I had mixed emotions on that "artistically", but the fight was weak. If you kept the pressure up right, it didn't really do anything more that roar at you. When it did, the question came down to "How the heck did this platform just absorb it's laser??".

I did like the idea of melding the genetics into a mechanical form though.

#63
MattFini

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We need a Harbinger boss fight to end the game.

HARBINGER!

#64
soull2

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I loved talking TIM to death as opposed to fighting an end boss I just wish it had been a little harder and that they had at least shown Harby being killed by the fleet or something.

#65
Auralius Carolus

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J-Sheridan wrote...

Fighting Harbringer directly would be stupid and the run up was handled properly to give the scale of what taking one head on is going to achieve.

Make GodChild Harbringer trying to break Shepard and suddenly the whole situation becomes a mental battle between Harbringer and Shepard. The outcome of which could expanded with cutscenes and some dialogue from Harbringer alone.


This is what it should have been. Even the dead Reaper in ME2 was controlling the minds of the living. That the Reapers would attempt to control Shepard's emotions makes sense given their pre-established malicious nature. But now I guess they're supposed to be "Bad guys with good intentions."

#66
sirisaacx

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

Nooo I meant the bossfight in ME2 that the poster was referencing. They said it was an amazing bossfight, but I thought it detracted way more than it added.


Ah. Yeah, I had mixed emotions on that "artistically", but the fight was weak. If you kept the pressure up right, it didn't really do anything more that roar at you. When it did, the question came down to "How the heck did this platform just absorb it's laser??".

I did like the idea of melding the genetics into a mechanical form though.


Yeah. But did it have to be a BOSS FIGHT? That's what I'm asking. I think it would have been a much stronger sequence if it was some sort of larvae type creature. Much more scary, albeit very stationary and un-boss-like. That was one of their original concepts, but it was likely changed to be more boss-friendly.

Having it be a boss battle didn't help the story there and I don't think adding a boss will do anything for ME3 either. Boss battles should forward the story, just like every other part of the narrative. It shouldn't be a random sidetrack for the sake of it. TIM was a man of words not actions, and his final scene reinforced that.

#67
Valo_Soren

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I fail to see why a game needs an end boss fight to be a good game. Works for Fable II just fine.

#68
Kadi

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Laurencio wrote...

dafangirl wrote...

Depends on how you view a final boss? One that the player fights or could it be simply a cinematic fight.

There's some audio files out there where Joker brings in the Normandy and takes out Harbinger. I believe this would have been a great addition to the end sequence of events. Harbinger, after all, is purportedly the leader. Makes complete sense, then, from a strategic war standpoint, to take out the leader, which could defeat, if not seriously diminish, the opposing side's confidence.

I'm hoping that not only the audio files but some "cutting floor" type graphics exist and maybe this might be possible in the Extended Cut DLC.


If Harbringer falls another will take his place, that's the nature of the reapers. They don't stop to reap because Harbringer dies, their entire purpose is to reap.


Says who? Reapers is just a name Given by the current Cycle right?

Soverign was just a Vanguard for their return.
Harbinger was the Vanguard of our destruction, im not sure where people read he was the first reaper, ive not see that, but he was deffinatley the right choice for a final battle with Shepard. if not fo rthe fact SHepard has stood in the way of the reapers twice, and survived. disproving their god complexxed supiriority. plus  see latter part of  ME 2 + ME 2 Arrival, to see how personal it was becomming between them. atleast i thought so =)

#69
Kamuchi

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

His name was Marauder Shields.

 

NEVER FORGET!  

is :kissing:

#70
Ansa2791

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Hy0ga wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

I believe Bioware said they were not adding any gameplay, only cut scenes


Yep. No boss, dialog wheel, etc...just good old power point.

lol:O, that power point better be good

#71
El Capt Mexico

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On the arguments against having a final boss because it would feel forced in like the previous games, I understand it. Although I am not completely against the Human Reaper at the end of ME2, but there is an argument that it wasn't executed properly. But allow me to explain why the Sovereign Saren at the end of ME1 worked.

Ever since the beginning of the game you knew the face of the enemy, Saren a rogue Turian who is up to no good. You were butting heads and just one step behind Saren the whole time. So there was little surprise when you had to fight him at the end, even with Sovereigns revelations you knew Saren was going down. With ME2, the Collectors were the only face you knew to be the bad guys running the show, with the exception of a Harbinger controlled Collector. The Human Reaper was revealed in the final minutes of the game so there wasn’t this built up tension between you and this random Reaper. IF instead the final sequence of ME2 went like this:

You destroy the support tubes feeding into the Reaper, it falls and your squad begins the task of setting the place to blow up or irradiate. The Collector General shows up with a Praetorian-esque upgrade. Before you can set the final sequence to blow up the Collector Base, EDI needs to hack its defenses triggering a “hold the fort” final battle with the Collector General. (**If EDI finished the hack before you defeat the Collector General, one of your squad sacrifices themselves to keep the Collector General at bay. If you defeat the Collector General before the hack is complete you breathe a sigh of relief.**) After the base is set blow, you take one of the floating platforms to the nearest exit but as that happens the human Reaper comes to life through Harbingers intervention with a last ditch effort to take Shepard down with him. So as you are running for the exit to reach the Normandy you are being chased by that Human Reaper that is tearing through the base in an effort to kill you. Then after that you make that final jump onto the Normandy and scram.

I know that writing this is unnecessary because the ending sequence of ME2 is set in stone. But what if? Something like that,(at least for me) would have been slightly more memorable and made more sense. But would it have made more sense to you? And would something like this be an acceptable final boss/sequence for the game?

#72
El Capt Mexico

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Final bosses have been a staple on RPG’s forever, FF had Chaos, Dragon Warrior had the Dragon Lord, Chrono Trigger had Lavos, and Grandia had Evil Gaia. So excuse me if when I play a game that claims to be an RPG I would assume that there would be a final boss to put all my skills I’ve learned to the test.

I can see the arguments against not having a crow bared final boss just for the sake of having one. But I don’t think that because times have changed and most final bosses are disappointing that Bioware shouldn’t have at least given it a shot. I mean Bioware has had amazing ideas and a great art department that’s created a universe of creatures, would it hurt the games integrity so much to have a final boss? I don’t think it would.

#73
El Capt Mexico

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In the case of having a final boss and how it would fit into the final sequences of ME3, Allow me to reference my favorite RPG, Chrono Trigger. The final boss was Lavos. First you fought the large outer shell that unleashed devastation across the world and is able to call upon the forces of across time to attack you. Putting the skills you learned in previous battles to the test. Defeating it is revealed that the creature was still alive. Going head first your crew goes into the shell and finds that Lavos body has been harvesting the essence of all life on earth since it arrived. It looks alien, it’s a torso that opens up to shoot lasers, arms that attack and keep the head protected. Only after destroying the arms is the head left vulnerable. Then after defeating that a strange creature is revealed with two floating orbs on each side. Lavos says nothing, yet your characters know that this is the final push but Lavos has a trick up its sleeve. Boss conventions say that the hulking Lavos creature in the center is the one to target yet after you kill it, the two floating orbs remain with one named the “Lavos Core” reviving the fallen creature and is much harder to kill than the rest. After figuring out the true heart of Lavos is one of the orbs, you take down its defenses and kill it. Time flashes before your eyes, you go back to your time period, there’s a festival, and your friends go back to the time period they are from.

Something similar could have been done with ME3. As Khayness mentioned, there could have been a huge ground battle. You lead your crew through the battlefield with reinforcements of the allies you’ve made while dodging attacks from Harbinger. Putting all those combat and leadership skills you learned to the test. After much struggle, you need help from the Normandy and the fleet engaged in the space battle to do any real damage, you did after all take out the Anti-Air cannons the Reapers had. So one of your squadmates and says, “Glad I brought this,” and throws you the targeting laser you used on Rannoch. So the Normandy succeeds in punching a hole in Harbinger, he falls but Shepard feeling this connection to Harbinger knowing it isn’t over yet. Boldly wanting to settle the score between them he takes his squad into Harbinger running into obstacles but reaching the core and destroying it. Then behind the core is Harbingers true form, something old, the size of a Geth Colossus, very machine like but with a sense of something organic. “Finally, we meet face to face Shepard.” After some dialog you realize that you have take him down, and in a similar way to Chrono Trigger you may focus your attention to the big center creature when there are these small floating devices that attack you and repair the center. (**And just for fun, you find out that the true catalyst is the “Heart of Harbinger” which is one of the floating devices.**) After you figure that out and defeat Harbinger’s true form (beaten and bloody) you make your way to the Crucible, attach “The Heart of Harbinger” to the control console and decide to either control or destroy the Reapers after talking with The Illusive Man. So how would this work out for a Final Boss? Good? Bad? Somewhere in between? Marauder Shield makes more sense?

In the end I think the merits of having a Final Boss far outweigh a decision to not have one because it’s too video gamey or cliché. And fighting with words comes nothing close to when your character says you failed to an enemy with a bullet instead.

#74
MutantFergus

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avatar2396 wrote...

they originally had you fighting the illusive man kind of like saren in me1 but the scrapped the idea thinking the boss fight was too cliche or something like that. It was in the art book i got with the game where they had a picture of IM as reaper controlled


I have never understood why they didn't want a boss battle at the climax of the story.  I mean, it's the climax of the story, cliche or not.  BW reasoning seems to be that resolution to the story is cliche too.  These kids today, too cool for school.  Very 'Kafka-esque'  (always wanted to say that) - a lot of confusing nothing happening at the end with no resolution.  Very art  house.  Our final "boss" is Marauder Shields (bless him)...  (As an aside, I found Marauder Shields to be quite challenging on insanity with no powers and a shakey trigger hand.  Some hits didn't seem to register on insanity even what cleary looked to be a head shot.  I don't know if they ramped down the accuracy for insanity or I was just hallucinating. On following playthroughs I kept it at insanity till Marauder Shields then just cut it back to casual, couldn't wait to meet Douche ex Machina.)

#75
readysetpanic

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They really should have had some kind of epic boss fight with Harbinger. Not so much a "final boss" stuck right at the end of the game before the ending movie sequences, but a balls to the wall penultimate battle before you go back to the Citadel and face The Illusive Man.
That'd be the perfect time for it to happen actually, after all Harbinger is right there in London already.

Firstly, it'd let you settle a score with the **** which is beyond long due.
Secondly, after it's over you wouldn't need to have an awkward scene of him just up and leaving, cause he'd be dead.
Thirdly, it would have given and excuse for Joker and Normandy to come back down to earth to help in the fight. And then Shep could have commanded his crew to get out of dodge for some reason/contrivance and then go up the beam, have your battle of wits with The Illusive Man, and so on.