335 réponses à ce sujet

[Babyberry]

I wish Bioware would put this to rest. I'm not exactly sold on the IT ONLY because I believe it's in the game because they had to cut the finale due to implementing issues (from the Final Hours App).

With that said, I am curious and frustrated that Bioware isn't coming out and stating a clear "yes, this was intended. Get excited about DLC!" or "all that was from our attempts to implement it, but the theory was not intentional. The endings are what they are with no indoctrination intended." Why aren't they? I hate to make assumptions, but I feel they aren't making a direct statement because it does leave them an out for a totally new ending if fans are still upset when the extended ending comes out this summer.

So at this point, who knows what Bioware is intending. I'm personally sick of speculating. Can we have answers instead?

Modifié par Babyberry, 07 avril 2012 - 01:50 .

[Armdin]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Armdin wrote...

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Armdin wrote...

don of all dons wrote...

Look at what BioWare/EA has done to us!
They've turned brother against brother, friend against friend, fan against fan

This is truly a dark time for videogaming * says a prayer for all my Brothers and sisters in the struggle*

But seriously I believe in IT and I haven't had all of the whole of the theory pointed out (As you can tell I haven't been posting here long) but I'll peruse these boards to check them out.
Regardless I guess it's easier for me to believe that BioWare wrote a great story than that it all suddenly fell apart at the end.

For me, I'm completely prepared to accept they botched the ending. When my other "series favourites" consist of Silent Hill (botched by foreigners), Resident Evil (botched by it's own team), Sonic (see ResEvil), and World of Warcraft (botched by fans), it makes it almost painless to accept the ending as terrible. However, as with Silent Hill and Resident Evil, headcanon and relentless belief that the next one can be better see's me through the crap. I'm determind to do the same with Mass Effect. IT helps with that process

Resident Evil has pretty much become total crap anymore (both the movies and the games). In defense of the movies though at least they still have zombies.

For me, Milla Jovavich(spelling?) is the only thing that saves the films. I say that, yet I haven't seen any past Apocalypse. All I know is she looks awesome in the trailers ;D

I agree with you on that also did you think that Jill in Apocalypse was annoying? Didn't seem at all like the character from the games to me.

The way I saw it, the film characters are entirely different characters sharing the game name. Film-Jill is not Game-Jill.

[Calibrations Expert]

I only feel sorry for people like myself who fear the ending will never ever be repaired.

[xxskyshadowxx]

CavScout wrote...

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

I am actually sorry for Bioware because they wasted this opportunity.

^This.

The fact that fans of the game could come up with a better ending shortly after playing the game, than the actual writers could create on their very best day after 2 years of development is one of the most epically sad things I've seen lately. Gotta feel sad for Bioware.

IT is not better....

I don't actually support the IT theory as a true ending...but it is better than the RGB Genocide ending in my opinion. At least unlike the current ending, it's original.

[Osiris273]

ryuasiu wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...


I would not call it faith. 

The guy who started the IT thread would disagree.

Then they are idiots for trying to tell me I have to have faith in an IDEA. Which it sill is to me, just an idea.

From Dogma:
Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the **** that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it. 
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good? 
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier... 

You called them idiots for trying to fix the ending, good job man, good job.

Modifié par Osiris273, 07 avril 2012 - 01:57 .

[Untold]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

my hopes for it ended bewtween today and yesterday. They shot it down. It must be seen.
I was 99 percent, full steam ahead. but they did not give it to us. Im trying to bury it and let it go with dignity, dont want it dragged out anymore like uncle Bernie. bury, mourn, move on.

Well, they actually haven't confirmed or denied anything really. If you can wrap your head around the PR speak (not easy I know) they have essentially said they aren't changing the endings, they're just adding additional content for clarification. Now this could simply be an extended version of what we got or maybe they are being crafty. They could very easily make the IT an reality while leaving the ending in tact. It would be part of it.

And I only say that because on the PAX East panel they once again refused to comment on it and said they wouldn't before the cut is released.

What does that mean? Maybe nothing at all. But we'll see what they have in store. Either way this will either turn out to be infamous or brilliant.

Modifié par Untold, 07 avril 2012 - 01:50 .

[Aramiss Ducati]

I look forward to reading a fanfic's that flesh out the indoc theory.

[AxholeRose]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

CavScout wrote...

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

I am actually sorry for Bioware because they wasted this opportunity.

^This.

The fact that fans of the game could come up with a better ending shortly after playing the game, than the actual writers could create on their very best day after 2 years of development is one of the most epically sad things I've seen lately. Gotta feel sad for Bioware.

IT is not better....

I don't actually support the IT theory as a true ending...but it is better than the RGB Genocide ending in my opinion. At least unlike the current ending, it's original.

And it would be very BioWare-like.  Reminded me of the Imoen twist in BG2.

[kleindropper]

Armdin wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

So help me out here; does the anti-IT crowd like the current ending? Or have you just accepted it as the $80 turd sandwich that it is and moved on with no hope for a correction?

From what I see, none of the above. They've not accepted it and are determind to send it back, and are only getting angrier each time they in turn send it back.

I just don't see how they can wipe away Casper the Friendly Reaper (which needs to happen to correct the ending) without something drastic like IT, unless they do a complete do-over and pretend it never happened (something they've already said they won't do).

[Armdin]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

CavScout wrote...

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

I am actually sorry for Bioware because they wasted this opportunity.

^This.

The fact that fans of the game could come up with a better ending shortly after playing the game, than the actual writers could create on their very best day after 2 years of development is one of the most epically sad things I've seen lately. Gotta feel sad for Bioware.

IT is not better....

I don't actually support the IT theory as a true ending...but it is better than the RGB Genocide ending in my opinion. At least unlike the current ending, it's original.

I could be missing something, but of the whole ending's problem RGB wasn't even on my list of complaints. I don't know about ME1 (only got the PS3 and a wheezy laptop that can barely handle Solitare), but ME2's ending consisted of Blow up the base/Keep the base. Getting RGB should, I feel, have been expected.

[Anwarddyn]

I personally never understood why the IT crowd and the Retakers were so mutually exclusive. Even if you believe the Indoctrination Theory none of your ME1 and ME2 choices mattered. Not a single one. Even if I believed the IT I would still feel duped by multiple ending promises that weren't delivered.

Modifié par Anwarddyn, 07 avril 2012 - 01:53 .

[Vexia2070]

AxholeRose wrote...

Indoc Theorists are people willing to give BioWare the benefit of doubt until they themselves make a confirming statement.

IT theorists are bigger fans of the game than you will ever be.

Agreed, they at least tried to do better. Unlike the makers of the M3

[RADIUMEYEZ]

GBGriffin wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

So help me out here; does the anti-IT crowd like the current ending? Or have you just accepted it as the $80 turd sandwich that it is and moved on with no hope for a correction?

I don't like the ending, and I don't like the IT. 

As for correction, they've given us all we're going to get at the moment, so why wouldn't I accept it over buying into a fantasy?

What about your fantasy of having me sing to you on your birthday?

[RADIUMEYEZ]

Osiris273 wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...


I would not call it faith. 

The guy who started the IT thread would disagree.

Then they are idiots for trying to tell me I have to have faith in an IDEA. Which it sill is to me, just an idea.

From Dogma:
Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the **** that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it. 
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good? 
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier... 

You called them idiots for trying to fix the ending, Todd job man, good job.

+100000000

[Armdin]

kleindropper wrote...

Armdin wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

So help me out here; does the anti-IT crowd like the current ending? Or have you just accepted it as the $80 turd sandwich that it is and moved on with no hope for a correction?

From what I see, none of the above. They've not accepted it and are determind to send it back, and are only getting angrier each time they in turn send it back.

I just don't see how they can wipe away Casper the Friendly Reaper (which needs to happen to correct the ending) without something drastic like IT, unless they do a complete do-over and pretend it never happened (something they've already said they won't do).

I don't see how either. I'd actually be interested in hearing it, but I get scared by Anti-IT fans. Largely because they seem to be more insulting than most IT-fans.

[GBGriffin]

I feel duped about the choices, but I think that a rushed product and "artistic integrity" explains it better than a fan-made theory that they could have easily confirmed or supported by now. The IT only came into existence to make sense of the plotholes; it was never discussed to this level of detail prior to ME3.

If they explain the plotholes, then I can accept it for what it is and move on. From what it sounds like, the Extended Cut will actually address my primary concern with the ending, although nothing is certain. If that's the case, so be it. To me, they've made their intentions clear and what they plan on doing about it, and it seems to distance itself from IT rather than support it.

[omntt]

AxholeRose wrote...

Indoc Theorists are people willing to give BioWare the benefit of doubt until they themselves make a confirming statement.

IT theorists are bigger fans of the game than you will ever be.

They'll probably be the saddest too if IT is not in the DLC.

[nullobject]

kleindropper wrote...

So help me out here; does the anti-IT crowd like the current ending? Or have you just accepted it as the $80 turd sandwich that it is and moved on with no hope for a correction?

As the OP I can answer a little.

I think the endings are awful, and pretty much irredeemable without total removal of the Godchild.

Bioware aren't going to do that, so the story is irreversably screwed.

Read about Individuation Theory in my sig if you want to know my guess at how it came to be so bad.

[VyseN1]

I really appreciate the passion put into the Indoctrination Theory. It is very compelling. Even though I respectfully disagree with it.

I just don't believe that EA/Bioware would let this PR nightmare continue if they had this ace up their sleeves this whole time.

Modifié par VyseN1, 07 avril 2012 - 01:58 .

[Osiris273]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Osiris273 wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...


I would not call it faith. 

The guy who started the IT thread would disagree.

Then they are idiots for trying to tell me I have to have faith in an IDEA. Which it sill is to me, just an idea.

From Dogma:
Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the **** that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it. 
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good? 
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier... 

You called them idiots for trying to fix the ending, good job man, good job.

+100000000

I have mistyped "good", sorry.

[Armdin]

Anwarddyn wrote...

I personally never understood why the IT crowd and the Retakers were so mutually exclusive. Even if you believe the Indoctrination Theory none of your ME1 and ME2 choices mattered. Not a single one. Even if I believed the IT I would still feel duped by multiple ending promises that weren't delivered.

This is my biggest complaint on the whole series.
I'm hoping this DLC in summer will go into that, maybe with something like, if you chose Destroy and your EMS was high enough (like, 6000+) then EDI and the Geth survive just as Shepard does, and variations of the epilogue depending on what you chose.

If I could get that, I'd be a happy bunny. If not, Mass Effect gets added to my Silent Hill and Resident Evil collection.

[RADIUMEYEZ]

GBGriffin wrote...

I feel duped about the choices, but I think that a rushed product and "artistic integrity" explains it better than a fan-made theory that they could have easily confirmed or supported by now. The IT only came into existence to make sense of the plotholes; it was never discussed to this level of detail prior to ME3.

If they explain the plotholes, then I can accept it for what it is and move on. From what it sounds like, the Extended Cut will actually address my primary concern with the ending, although nothing is certain. If that's the case, so be it. To me, they've made their intentions clear and what they plan on doing about it, and it seems to distance itself from IT rather than support it.

Okay that's all good but now comes the real question. Them discussing/believing/thinking/ or for that matter promoting Indoctrination Theory affects you in no way unless it were to end up being true which I am not saying it is but you don't know what Bioware's plans are in anyway. So anyway though my point is why do you care? Why do you constantly argue with them? Are you mad about something one of them said? Do you wish you had thought up the idea first? Are you just bored?

[RADIUMEYEZ]

Osiris273 wrote...

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Osiris273 wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...


I would not call it faith. 

The guy who started the IT thread would disagree.

Then they are idiots for trying to tell me I have to have faith in an IDEA. Which it sill is to me, just an idea.

From Dogma:
Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the **** that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it. 
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good? 
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier... 

You called them idiots for trying to fix the ending, good job man, good job.

+100000000

I have mistyped "good", sorry.

Oh no problem I just corrected it in my head.

[AxholeRose]

GBGriffin wrote...

I feel duped about the choices, but I think that a rushed product and "artistic integrity" explains it better than a fan-made theory that they could have easily confirmed or supported by now. The IT only came into existence to make sense of the plotholes; it was never discussed to this level of detail prior to ME3.

If they explain the plotholes, then I can accept it for what it is and move on. From what it sounds like, the Extended Cut will actually address my primary concern with the ending, although nothing is certain. If that's the case, so be it. To me, they've made their intentions clear and what they plan on doing about it, and it seems to distance itself from IT rather than support it.

This is the sober, depressing view of it.  Godchild is not going to be removed.  But the funny thing is that, if all they do is add some cutscenes for 'closure', ie Extended Ending, then the Indoc Theory can still live on.  ME4.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Indoc Theorists are people willing to give BioWare the benefit of doubt until they themselves make a confirming statement.

IT theorists are bigger fans of the game than you will ever be.

If by ''bigger fans'', you mean ''less able to see reality, and trusting Bioware to be far, far more clever than they are'', then I guess that's true. Ain't the ''True Fan'' fallacy fun to use?

Also, enough with the ''benefit of the doubt''. IT was bunk from the start. The desperate fan-****** of a group of people who cannot fathom Bioware really wrote an ending this abusively bad. Even if it WAS true, it still solves absolutely nothing, so it holds no value whatsoever.

I wish people would just face it. We will get an epilogue and some additionnal cinematic, that's it. The ending will not be rewritten, the very same events will happen, it just will (maybe) make a bit more sense and add some closure. StarChild stays. Relays blowing stays. Earth holocaust on anything but Control stays. Galactic dark age (the dev's words, not mine) stays. Normandy crash stays. Maybe the DLC will soften the blow a bit. Maybe it will just end up being more of the same. But it will not solve anything or blw our collective minds, that we can be certain about.