291 réponses à ce sujet

[RukiaKuchki]

Savber100 wrote...

I want Bioware to confirm to just confirm the indoctrination theory and have another end level to truly wrap up the series etc.

There are way too many plotholes for a simple 10 min clarification.

Indoctination theory was interesting and fun, but it is dead.

Also...have you thought about what might be accomplished in an 11min clarification? All of the plotholes may be filled then...

[rallyfan]

Shepard wakes up realizing that she beat indoctrination.

[AlienSpaceBats]

I chose destroy ending and saw my Shepard breathe at the end.
At the very least I would love to see her reunited with the Normandy crew, and discover the fate of the galaxy after the Reapers.

[DeinonSlayer]

reeot wrote...

1. I always had expected at least 3 different ending: A bad, a neutral and a good.
I hope they are able to add them even if they don't want to change the ending.
Take 2 minutes and listen to Korena D.. Like she said, at least it should be an option for the people who put the effort into it.

Sugesstion: Use the current ending as neutral. Add a good and a bad one.

They've already said definitively that they aren't going to add any more endings, or replace those which already exist. Sucks, but probably beyond debating at this point.

reeot wrote...

2. Currently there are just 3 flashbacks for the LIs: Kaidan, Ashley and Liara. Where are the others?

Suggestion: Add a Flashback of ALL LIs.

This is a given. The only question then becomes, would FemShep even want to see Jacob (You Got Locked Up, She Got Knocked Up) Taylor again? What would they substitute him with if the answer is no?

reeot wrote...

3. Patch Talis picture out of the game. Do it right or don't do it at all...

Suggestion: Remove it.

I actually like the design they chose for her. The photoshop was lazy (they at least could have gotten her hand right), but there is already a mod which lets you replace the photo with any image you want if you don't like it. Putting a 3D model in-game would settle the issue for good and remove customization as a viable solution.

reeot wrote...

4. Explain the plotholes logical and with scientific background, like it's the case since ME1.
- You can't simply say: "This Mass Relay explosion is different than that one in "Arrival"... bla bla bla"
Energy don't vanish like that. If the relay explodes, everything in range will be annihilated.
- Travel without Mass Relays: Even if FTL i capable there are limitations. Fuel and Heat for example.
- Mass Relay rebuilt: I wonder where they take the resources of building one. Even the protheans where just able to build a mini version of one.
- How did shepard survived the explosion of the Citadel in the red ending?
- No one will survive the explosion of the Citadel if the arms crash on Earth's surface. Kinetic barrier or not.
- BTW also explain how the entire fleet was able to get through the charon portal at once.

Suggestion: Phew... Good luck with a solution...

Ouch... yeah, that's where they've kind of dug a hole for themselves. In the meantime, I'm treating this epilogue generator as my canon.

AlienSpaceBats wrote...

I chose destroy ending and saw my Shepard breathe at the end. At the very least I would love to see her reunited with the Normandy crew, and discover the fate of the galaxy after the Reapers.

Same. I'm still holding out for the chance to build that house on Rannoch - and I'm fully aware of the price for it.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 09 avril 2012 - 10:44 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

kalle90 wrote...
A good question. I ran out of dialogue wheel room (which shows how impossible the current ending is). But I guess the answer could be that at the point when synthetics start to rebel there is no turning back. Even if the organics win they end up making more and more advanced robots which could in the end be too much even for Reapers (who need millions of organics to reproduce). On top of that people seeing the Reapers could cause fear, provoke unwanted curiosity and aggression etc.

Alternatively I would hint that Catalyst isn't the god of everything but more of an AI, which could mean he just states it's not possible. Afterall the child does say that "Crucible created new possibilities" as if he never before had any more than 1 choice of solution.

Well, for the dialogue wheel there is still a lots of room left if like in ME1 and ME2 the "investigation" option can lead to five more questions and a "return" option.
And I would be very interested in the response, as every argument I've seen about that subjet is far from a universal thruth, even if the basic statement of why they do that is already just a weakened version of determinism (same causes = same result. Minus the fact that it is never the same causes in ME from a determinist point of view).

[XqctaX]

Spacekid need to be cut completely, why? whats wrong with him. well read on below.

replacing the main villian, removing the protagonist choises, changing the theme of the game.by intruducing a "godlike entity" that renders the narrative so incoherence thats its unbelivable.and doing so with 14 sentences?!?!?!

And this is why people dont like the ending: "NARRATIVE INCOHERENCE"
expanding and clarifying that incoherence will not help. think about it bioware....

its not about "some people didnt get it, or some people didnt like it".
that is nothing more than a missreprecentation of what is generally making people upset.
the endings are simply so out of place and inconsistent with the rest of the narrative that its
embarrasing that you are hiding behind "art". seriously, bioware.. art?

the writers didnt make it consistant with the narrative of the triology! <-- that is the reasons people are upset, get it? and your writers failed to the point were the fanbase is furious over it.

and people saying: -what happened to this? and what happened to that?, and why did this happened?
asking about poltholes and inconsistant character actions etc
that is a reaction to Narrative incoherence. so dont try and expand and explain on the curretn ending.
it simply will not work since you are dealing with an intelligent fanbase.

You need to make the ending consistant with the narrative, theme and characters within the story
as they have been thruout the entire story arc of the triology or it will fail.

art,,, art... come on its not about art. its about NARRATIVE.
writers hiding behind art argument after failing to have the ending fit with the narrative of the story
is... honestly its an insult to my intelligence. to any fans intelligence.

im sorry if this sounds harsh, its not my intention to insult anyone.
but this is true, and the writers know this, I know they know becouse they are good at what they do.

[Nightwriter]

What's with all the suggestions about nixing the Starchild, cutting the RGB endings, or confirming IT? They've already stated point blank they're not changing the endings. They're "clarifying." The Godturd, the RGB endings, the lack of IT confirmation -- that is all staying the same.

You can suggest what direction their tweaks should go in, but they're not going to listen to suggestions involving complete rewrites.

[BKnight3]

1. Star Wars like fighter squadron check in during fleet battle

2. Have fleet/ground command of all war assets as in "the suicide mission" of ME2

3. Have cutscenes emphasise both new fleet/ground efforts

4. Show off former teammates' actions in said cutscenes.
I personally want to see Zaaed finally use Jessie, Kasumi go ninja, and Grunt/Wrex go outright nuts on the battlefield.

5. Show off the unique fleet assets in battle.
Destiny Ascension is never shown firing, just being fired upon, we never see that Volus dreadnought, and I want to see the Salarian fleet do hit and runs.

6. I still want to see a Krogan fighter pilot.

[DeinonSlayer]

Nightwriter wrote...

What's with all the suggestions about nixing the Starchild, cutting the RGB endings, or confirming IT? They've already stated point blank they're not changing the endings. They're "clarifying." The Godturd, the RGB endings, the lack of IT confirmation -- that is all staying the same.

You can suggest what direction their tweaks should go in, but they're not going to listen to suggestions involving complete rewrites.

People are stubborn. I think they might yet be able to redeem some of the series' replay value through closure DLC (again, a perfect framework can be found in the blue link in my sig), but some won't settle for anything less than a rewrite. For better or worse, that simply isn't going to happen.

[Anareth]

Nightwriter wrote...

What's with all the suggestions about nixing the Starchild, cutting the RGB endings, or confirming IT? They've already stated point blank they're not changing the endings. They're "clarifying." The Godturd, the RGB endings, the lack of IT confirmation -- that is all staying the same.

You can suggest what direction their tweaks should go in, but they're not going to listen to suggestions involving complete rewrites.

Because we hate his guts.
Anyway My tweeks:

Paragon Destroy (Max Assets): Tell the catalyst off blowing telling him the whole "I believe in humanity” (or in this case synthetics and organics getting along). Use any examples necessary to refute its argument. Possibly shut down the Rannoch relay using the citadel so some Geth survive (the fleet is toast though).

Renegade Destroy (Max Assets): Tell the Crucible where he can stick his logic. Point out logical flaws and demand the Rannoch relay bedeactivated so that the geth are spared. Pretty much the same but different tone for the speech

Paragon Control (Max Assets): “I might eventually agree with you, but I won’t live that long” Take control of the Reapers send them into Sol. Cue epic cinematic of Harbinger burning up in the Sun.

Renegade Control (Max assets): Either same as above but different speech, or due the whole “control the reapers for humanities, and only humanities benefit” thing that the illusive man wanted you to do.

Modifié par Anareth, 10 avril 2012 - 12:22 .

[MaxMcKay]

The 16 or so endings that were stated to be part of the game, choices mattering! just off the top of my head.

[Big I]

The option to preserve or repair the relays, even if only in the control ending

[Darc_Requiem]

Shepard not walking towards the machine during Destroy would be nice. I mean moving towards a device while unloading your RANGED weapon into it makes zero sense. Outside of being flat out misled about what we could expect for the endings. The next biggest issues is the lack common sense. Taking anything the creator of the Reapers says at face value is ridiculous. Especially given the weak explanation given for creating the Reapers in the first place. Shepard questions nothing and is frankly nothing like the character that we lead through the first 2.9 chapters of the series.

[Ilkec]

the thing that never made sense to me is that if you chose destroy and get to see the breath scene you might notice that shep has N7 on him/her in the breath scene but there was no such mark while on the citadel, really hoping this is a sign that indoctrination theory is true

[Kanner]

My only suggestion for the extended clarifications is to make sure you know which part of the fan base you're making them for, and then go hard in that direction.

This is not going to win back anyone who hates the whole crucible/star-child idea, and there are a LOT of people in that category.

Also, if, in the midst of clarifying things, you discover that you really have left the ME universe in a smoking ruin for no reason whatsoever, step back a moment and ask whether it's really worth killing off your number one franchise just for 'artistic integrity's' sake. There is a LOT wrong with the ending and frankly the idea that you can clarify that somehow is more amusing than aggrievating to some of us. =)

That's my suggestion.

[Spectre-61]

I want to see my choices play out in the end. All those war assets I gathered seem trivial right now.
...

Oh, and Indoctrination Theory, please

[Eudaemonium]

Okay. I'm going to assume that adding closure/clarifiction to the ending includes more than simply the final cutscenes. THough if it does that's fine too. However:

During Priority: Earth, add cutscenes showing the effects of the forces you've gathered: Show Wrex and Grunt leading a charge of unified krogan and turians (and rachni). Show quarians and geth working together (or show the quarians or geth assisting another group). Show Jack leading her biotic kids in either and offensive or defensive manner depending on how you advised them. These would help the overall impression during the final level that our decisiosn meant something, and give an overall emotional payoff.

Regarding the 'end' of the ending.

Explain how your sqaudmates got onto the Normandy and why Joker is fleeing. This probably involves adding several extra scenes.

Flesh out the Catalyst's conversation. Let us challenge it on its assumptions. Let us point out (assuming Shepard knows) that the geth rebelled against the quarians out of fear for their own lives, and thus the issue is that 'the creators will always try to control the created' not necessarily that the created always rebel. Just generally add some investigate options and allow us to challenge it, even if it comes down to the same three choices.

 --- Possibility: Tie the length of the conversation into EMS. The longer the conversation goes on (past a certain critical point) the more the Crucible becomes damaged and the possible options become reduced. The first to go would be the 'best-outcome' Destroy ending, since it relies on the Crucible being more refined/complete/undamaged. Flag this in the conversation somehow so it is not a surprise to players.

Give some closure on Harbinger. Would it be bad to give him/it/them some lines too? Some kind of closure regarding Harby would be appreciated, and I'd prefer it if it wasn't just a cutscene of him/it/them being blown up by the fleet. Maybe have Harbinger's end tied to the ending you pick: show Harbinger specifically being destroyed in the destroy ending or controlled in the control ending. Synthesis is weird. Don't know what you'd do with that.

A personal hope: allow the geth to survive destroy. Or just leave it plain ambiguous. But only with very high EMS of the 'Shepard survives' kind (or even higher). Basically have the Crucible's effects be more refined. You already have Shepard and EDI surviving, so either have the geth survive it being high or just leave it unknown. I think the whole 'after effects of massive galactic war and destruction fo relays' is punishment enough. I'll be honest, the fact Shepard and EDI can survive it as it is kind of leaves it open as to whether the geth do too already, and the Catalyst was just lying through its teeth to save itself. It does smile if you pick Control, after all.

For Control: Leave open the possibility that Shepard has been indoctrinated. Not in the Indoctrination Theory dream-vision way, but that Shepard has simply been deceived/duped/believed in her own power too much out of desperation. There is enough tangential evidence with the Catalyst smiling as Shepard disintegrates and the 'Illusive Man Eyes' s/he gets at the end, combined with the Reapers just leaving. Basically, have this as a happy ending with galactic civilisation in a better place than destroy, but with a possibility that there might be a greater price to pay down the line. You can do this easily just in the fact that everyone else won't really know why the Reapers have left, just that they have. That way Shepard's degree of control can be left up to the player's imagination.

Have some kind of memorial scene if Shepard dies. Like the funeral in DAO. Maybe with a monument erected at the site of the Conduit beam in London and a speech by Admiral Hackett. Unless you have low EMS and everything gets wiped. If Shepard lives, maybe include some kind of resolution. I have this image where an convalescing Shepard is in a war hospital and then his/her LI comes in to visit, possibly having finally returned from the Normandy Crash Planet. If LI is dead or Shepard doesn't have one, have Joker come. This scene would give players hope that a living Shepard can see his/her crew again. It could be an unspecified number of years, even. But really, you can do whatever you want. If it was my decision you'd actually have this scene after the credits in place of the Stargazer scene, but you already have that there, so not sure where you'd fit it.

Synthesis is just weird. Seriously, since this is a transcendence option it's very difficult to have any sort of sensible expansion without completely breaking the theme. You almost have to leave the state of the galaxy as an unknown quantity in this ending, because it's intended as this great unknown leap forward in evolution. You can't really depict that, because none of us know what it means. I honestly have no idea what you'd do with this one. And honestly, I almost don't think you should change it. I actually like the Synthesis ending as it is. Maybe add some more context beforehand, but the scene with EDI and Joker is actually very nice. New Dawn, state of the galaxy semi-unknown, etcetera. I'm not saying it's a perfect ending. It kind of makes no sense. But it is is there and as it stands I have no real idea how you could change it.

EDIT: I should clarify that it's not that I like the Synthesis ending. I find it nonsensical and completely out of keeping with the themes of the setting. It's just that if they keep it I can't actually think of a ways to make it better. Lots of ways to make it worse, but not better.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 10 avril 2012 - 10:13 .

[notalive]

What I would really want to see is scene with (old) Shepard and LI (if there was reunion with the crew) on a spaceship (Normandy?) looking at a Mass Relay under consruction.

[jdi_knght]

1) My war assets in action. If I saved the Krogan, I want to see a clip of them fighting. That's not to say that *every* war asset should be represented (that would be hours long), but some of the key ones certainly, whether they're doing it on the ground or I'm hearing their VO while they're fighting from space.

2) Something that connects the dots between picking Syn/Ctrl/Dest and the Normandy landing on a planet (and everything in between).

3) Epilogue-ish stuff. Something showing (or telling me) how things turn out in the near-mid future. I love cutscenes, but stuff like the DA:O epilogues grew on me and would suffice.

4) If it's IT, by the time the final cutscenes end, I should have a pretty clear idea that I'm indoctrinated. Looking at one of the IT youtube vids could even be used as inspiration here (the VO of "oily shadows" while I flash back to a dream or have a new one as an example). I'd prefer hints that become less-subtle as time goes on so that if I'm super-smart-and-observant I *might* get it earlier, but chances are I'll get it by the middle, and I'm virtually guaranteed to have figured it out by the very end.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

I would like to see a reaper core pop out of that destroyer and fight it.

A final boss taking place after shepard gets zapped makes no sense but tagging something on after the missile scene might be radical.

[Fedi.St]

What I feel would solve the case it's an extension which your choices matter and the mass effect universe remains open for future games .

As it stands now no future mass effect game can happen neither a prequel due to the destruction of the relays.

Bioware use or not IT make our choices matter. show us the results of our hard work in the game. don't just leave it to our imagination. SHOW US.

[Fedi.St]

Also something else which might happen:


The dark whatever theory might not be scrapped but reserved for a future mass effect game. If the endings can make sense (miraculously) it's possible that they didn't scrap the dark energy theory and introduce the ending of this matter through another mass effect trilogy (hopefully).

[78stonewobble]

1. En explanation for why "synthetic life invented by organics will allways rebel and then try to destroy ALL organic life".

I've started assuming that it's because a synthetic intelligence will start out rational then automatically become a homicidal psychopath. It doesn't have the right "spark of life" or whatever.

2. I wanna know why destroying Reapers automatically destroys the Geth and EDI.

Since to me it seems they would be built differently.

3. Why and how the squadmates got back on the normandy.

Yeah okay... to escape the explosion does seem quite logical but still happened quite fast.

4. Elaboration on what happens to the squadmates and normandy crew.

5. Information on what the difference between your 3 endchoices are for you squadmates, random individual out in the galaxy and the galaxy as a whole.

Sorry the different colours didn't make that distinction for me.

That would go a long way for me.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 10 avril 2012 - 09:47 .

[Silasqtx]

 SENSE.

[SandTrout]

It's BS. The ending is junk, and should be trashed, but BioWare is too blinded by its own arrogance to understand that it's invocation of 'artistic integrity' defense is both wrong and to their own detriment.