291 réponses à ce sujet

[Endersoldier]

sushismygen wrote...

Reaper511 wrote...

I'd like to see Indoctrination. It was a great initial idea, and the groundwork is very much there (otherwise there'd be no Indoc Theory camp). Why not run with it?

It'd actually close alot of the holes (pretty much all of them) and give you a "clean slate" to place whatever final moments you want in there... heroic sacrifice, pro-human renegadey choice (I dunno), or even some miraculous "Shepard lives" moment... then cut to epilogue scenes showing the outcome for surviving squadmates/important characters, how the genophage decision impacted the galaxy, how the geth/quarian outcome impacted the galaxy, and (if alive) Shep+LI living out their days.


For bonus points: Renegade interrupt headbutt on Starchild.

This ^^ :happy:

Haha, that would actually be pretty funny, perhaps Bioware could include it as a neat easter egg that can be done on a second playthrough?  That alone would convince many to play it again. 


On a more serious note, as many have already mentioned elsewhere I think Bioware should modify the Starchild dialogue to include more clarity.  And for me personally, I think they could totally nail the Star Child if he only gives you the synthesis and control ending choices on first notice: in order to get the option to end the cycle forever, the number of war assets and galactic readiness could come into play and allow you to completely trump the nosy ****er, allowing him to concede and give you destroy as a possibility, where the Geth do not die.  If you did not do enough or make the right choices by the time you get to that point, you would still have the ability to question him, but at the same time you cannot fully convince him to get you that ending as a possibility.

Modifié par Endersoldier, 07 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[Chakuura]

Ultimately I want star child removed by either Indoctrination Theory or ANYTING. I can see that won't happen though so at this point I just want...

1. More dialogue choices with the kid, even if it ultimately comes down to the same bad decisions I want to be able to question it, rather than just swallow what he says no questions asked. it's just too out of character for Shepard for me to overlook.

2. I want to know how in the hell my squad was with me one minute and then on the Normandy the next, and I really don't want it to just be something along the lines of "oh more time passed than you thought between being hit with the beam and the explosions".

3. Either no Mass Relay explosions, or a very well explained reason we could rebuild them like Jessica Merizan said. I would hate to see "Oh hey guys there are plans for the Mass Relays in this dead Reaper!!".

3. If we can reunite with our squads as has been indicated a few times, how is it possible? That planet isn't in the Sol system and with no mass relays how do we get there?

4. An explanation as to why Shepard lives in the destroy ending despite 'being half robot by now!" even though the kid said they would likely die. BONUS POINTS: No Geth/EDI wipeout.

5. Short term effects of all my choices like Dragon Age: Origins provided. Including what happened to everyone on the citadel, and my ME2 squadmates and other characters,

Thats all I have right now.

[ZombieDrummer]

- Please remove the starchild. It ran contrary to some of the main themes of the games and came out of nowhere. Introducing such a character in the last minute will always leave more questions (where did it come from; why can't it interfere directly; why are there limits to its power, etc., etc.) than answers. You can use a Prothean VI or Harbinger instead. We've seen them before, they are part of the lore and are much more relatable than a metaphysical godlike entity.

- Keep the same ending choices, but with more clarity and closure - cutscenes and dialogue.

- If you have the time/resources you can also improve the final battle with more chatter from the war-assets. Example: you arrive at forward post X; military salarian/human engineers need to clear the path forward with controlled demolitions. In the meantime, you have some spare time and can read some information about the deployment of the allied forces on a nearby terminal and/or listen to radio chatter...

[CJMissen]

you want criticisms, feedback and suggestions? okay, have it.

Outright denial of the potential of changing them or adding alternatives, this needs to be rethought, heavily.

it isn't just the lack of closure or clarity, its the railroaded manner that leads to it as well, THIS MEANS STAR-CHILD, this means, ACCEPTANCE OF CIRCULAR KNOWLEDGE, this means LACK OF ABILITY TO DEFY what is seen by many fans, and has been set up to be the god of the Reapers. The whole setup is IMMERSION BREAKING at a fundamental level, and that is BEFORE we get to see what happens next. Its a huge disconnect, something has gone wrong HERE, not just after, it STARTED with the CATALYST, so START THERE.

THIS WHOLE SERIES, has been about defying the odds. not to mention, defying those who say 'it is inevitable' or 'you are incapable'. only to be slapped down by this mocking child with the phrase 'no, you can't'. the whole setup engenders us to distrust this being at any level.

NOT ALLOWING us to defy this being, is akin to having the 'collectors base' dilmna all over again, or the 'save the council or not' choice all over again, but having no real second option, and its not about seeing the impacts of the choices you are planning to provide, its part of it, but it is NOT the whole thing.

It is Railroaded, we can TELL. there are those who would rather wait 10 minutes for the reapers to DESTROY the Crucible rather than take ANY of the options you give... SOMETHING HAS GONE WRONG.

The fundumental keystones of each ending, are still relegated to series breaking similarity, marooning normandy (its set up by the way ALSO makes no sense at all, and does not fit with ANY of the characters or their situations. Normandy + Joker is fighting with Sword fleet, not picking up buddies and running... buddies are part of pitched ground war, you can't just snatch them off the ground that easily or quickly much less expect them to come WILLINGLY), technological darkage (in relation to transportation technology) + soulshattering seperation and outright DENIAL of closure, begs to question what I've seen said that this new ending content will grant "even more" closure for hardcore fans... do you not realise there was none to begin with? it was DENIED.

Superficial changes are highly unlikely to be able to address this, the same, railroaded choices of A.B.C are still going to be there unless you do something about it, OPTIONS OF DEFIANCE SHOULD BE ON YOUR MINDS AT THIS POINT.

The rationale behind it as a stand alone product, which has been vetted by the devs I may add, contains an illogical argument that the game itself thematically disproves and begs questioning.

If you need at this point to clarify and justify this situation, you REALLY should ask yourselves whether or not you made a good call to begin with.

Artistic integrity is all well and good and I truly do respect it... but part in parcel with the artistic integrity you have invested and placed into this game was the idea and theme of player choice and independance to choose their own paths. taking that away, you have not only betrayed your fans, but you have betrayed your OWN artistic integrity and vision. Your own SITE gives hail to the idea that people are able to craft their own story, narrative, adventure, and control the way things unfold, the outcomes and such.

My advice, as total and harsh as it is? Bite the bullet. go all out on this. people would rather PAY for an entirely new ending, or an alternative, rather than be given freely something that does not deliver what they expect to do the series conclusion justice. I myself WOULD NOT remove the current content, I would however provide at the least, alternatives to it.

stonewalling, evasiveness, unwillingness to go the full distance (IE: not changing, no alternatives) will NOT win you back your fans, that have until this point, remained loyal. you want to be seen as listening? well... listen.

Clarifying what is already seen to be a mistake, YES... A MISTAKE, does not FIX said mistake. HARD YARDS, and depth, content, quality and truly LISTENING to what people are saying will do it. Deliver what was built up pre-release, LOOK at your statements, realise your product backflipped on them.

FIX IT.

I DO NOT CARE that it has been said that these things are impossible, you asked for feedback and THIS is what I give you, now you can either LISTEN to it, and many others who are saying close to the same thing, I'd advise you do so, or you can disregard it. either way, if you don't pull this off right... it shows a certain amount of... true colour, the proof is in the pudding and at this point, with the amount of feedback you have gotten, if you really listened to it, you would not have an excuse to go wrong.

As it stands, I reserve my judgement, I have not seen for myself what you will do... yet I do not count myself amongst those with a limited imagination, and as such I give you the feedback of severe skepticism that sticking to what is flawed to begin with rather than be open to change or additions, IS NOT THE RIGHT CHOICE.

Make of this what you will. I do not intend offense, and if that is what I achieve, I sincerely apologise.

Modifié par CJMissen, 07 avril 2012 - 02:39 .

[Alyka]

My suggestion is that the writers need to explain their ending.

I don't buy games that I already know most of whats going to happen in them.
So why would I want a DLC that just plays out what I already know?

I like a surprise.Especially one that is clear and makes sense.

[AlanC9]

Chakuura wrote...
3. If we can reunite with our squads as has been indicated a few times, how is it possible? That planet isn't in the Sol system and with no mass relays how do we get there?
.

Though ordinary FTL travel, maybe?

[Prism]

-I'd personally want to see more of the war assets going at work and see how they count by being there or not being there.
-Clear up all the nonsense happening on the Citadel (good luck with that btw).
-Diversify the endings by a heck of a lot more than colors, and show long term consequences (even wall of texts would do).
-And most importantly, closure regarding the characters.

The time for speculation over.

Modifié par Prismvg, 07 avril 2012 - 08:01 .

[AlanC9]

CJMissen wrote...
the fundumental keystones of each ending, are still relegated to series breaking similarity, marooning normandy, technological darkage + soulshattering seperation 

How do you figure that? It's not like people are going to forget how mass effect drives or anything else works.

[ConnyB]

I would really like to see the following:
- An option to defy the star child (paragon / renegade)
- The possibilty of leaving the mass effect relays intact (or at least only damaged but repairable - and without wiping out each star system with a relay in it, as would happen according to Arrival DLC).
- The possibility for Shepard to survive (without having to commit genocide) and having the chance for a future together with his/her LI
- A good explanation for why Shepard's entire team would abandon him/her?! Would like to see Shepard reunited with the team.
- An epilogue about what happens regarding all the choices you made during the game re genocide, geth / quarians etc.
Thank you Bioware for making it free but it needs to be something good or it won't be worth doing... Mass Effect is an amazing series of games and it deserves a better ending!

[Kris69]

If Shep survives( possibly without killing an entire specie) I want him to reunite with his LI.

Modifié par Kris69, 07 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[Sweawm]

One question: where the hell did Harbinger go? Why did he abandon the final battle? Why?

[Darth Wolfenbarg]

 Reframe the 3 ending options, since they're obviously going to keep them. The endings were framed in a weird way, here's how I think they should be addressed.

Worst Ending - Synthesis: This option is a compromise. In order to save every individual in the galaxy, you willingly submit to the Reapers infusing every sentient in the galaxy with tech but allowing them to keep their sentience. This is essentially what Saren was fighting for in the first game, it doesn't make sense for that to be the option only allowed to those with the highest level of preparedness.

Middle Ground - Control: Your fleet isn't enough, so you have to take the same road the Illusive Man wanted despite opposing him for the entire game. Shepard is sacrificed and the Reapers are pacified... they might come back, or they might not. At the very least, this cycle is delayed.

Best Ending - Destroy: Remove that caveat that the Geth have to die and give the players the satisfaction of accomplishing the one goal of the entire series. The maximum level of preparedness gives them the ability to do what they set out to do in the first place. This would also validate letting Shepard surviving as the best ending with the highest possible EMS.

I kind of doubt that Bioware would do even this much though, because making synthesis the worst ending would trample on the toes of whoever thought that was a good idea, and to this point they've wanted to protect their artistic intention.

[CJMissen]

AlanC9 wrote...

CJMissen wrote...
the fundumental keystones of each ending, are still relegated to series breaking similarity, marooning normandy, technological darkage + soulshattering seperation 

How do you figure that? It's not like people are going to forget how mass effect drives or anything else works.

Its not so much a total tech dark age but it is certainly getting close to a darkage for the technology we used to get from one side of the galaxy to the other.

We understand the theory yes, but the issue is... heh, just go talk to Liara's father in ME2, people think the idea of rebuilding mass relays/building new ones is an absurdity, they haven't prepared enough to actually impliment such technology on the same scale themselves. and considering all their reference material just blew up?

how long would it take you and a team of even few hundred thousand of the best and brightest to recreate a mass driver, much less get from point A to point B to set up another one to catch you?

the implication in the setup is that it would take more than a few generations to happen.

Prediction is as much the same in the final epilogue with Buzz, '"soon" my sweet'. how ever many generations after the game's conclusion that 'THE SHEPARD" was immortalised in folklore plus a few minutes or more generations. how 'soon' is soon?

[Mersey]

if StarChild absolutely have to be in the game, at least give a fourth option to tell him: NO!

Shepard wouldn't buy his stupid 'solution'. My Shepard would toss him off the Citadel and order the fleets to an all out attack on the Reapers...one big final push (which means a lot of epic space battle cut-scenes).

And your War Assets and the races you have gathered will decide the outcome of that battle.

Show us the Destiny Ascension in battle taking down a Reaper (or getting blown up), show Geth aiding the Quarians, show the Normandy side by side with the Turians...all gathered races, aiding eachother. Working together. Wasn't that what ME3 kept telling us, "we have to work together".

Sidenote: when the fleets report in...show all fleets actually doing it, not just a small cutscene of the Quarians and then Joker confirming all fleets reporting. Show actually all fleets who report in with a small cutscene. Various important ppl from each race should do this, like Victus for the Turians, Kirrahe for STG, Raan for the quarians and so on...and why not the Asari Councelor for the DA, would set the tone if even she is involved in the battle. This also gives good confirmation of what races you have managed to gather.

And I simply must have a scene with the Volus Bombing Fleet.

And for the love of Harbinger, have Shepard call her mother...plzzzz.

[AlanC9]

CJMissen wrote...
Its not so much a total tech dark age but it is certainly getting close to a darkage for the technology we used to get from one side of the galaxy to the other.

Right. Suddenly the galaxy is much bigger.

And  I imagine it would take generations to build new relays. Human generations, that is. Wrex and Liara would probably live to see it.

Only... so what? No galaxy-spanning government anymore, yep; even with QECs I don't think the Citadel government would work any more. If by "dark age" you just mean that Citadel governent is gone the way Roman government was gone in Europe's dark ages, OK. But this simply doesn't mean anything beyond that.

[Mad...White...Ham]

LET SHEPARD REUNITE WITH HIS SQUADMATES

[graciegrace]

Why bother posting anything? It's not like they legitimately care, they're just saying it to get people off their backs

[Nepp]

Have Marauder Shields, kill shepard, then go to the silly AI Child, give said child the finger, then proceed to destroy the AI's core, which apparently controls the reapers, hence saving the galaxy.

Shepard is forgotten, and Marauder Shields is the hero.

I'd say that's win win.

[Ronin1325]

Let's remember that Bioware said "No new endings". Now that may change with continued fan pressure, we'll have to see, but assuming it doesn't- I *dare* Bioware to 'clarify' how Shep survived the destruct ending. THAT would be a neat trick. If he's still on the ruins of the Citadel, he's not going to be alive much longer, and if he's back in London, how exactly did he survive the fall? Whatever transport beam got him up there doesn't exist for the trip down.

I would also like them to 'clarify' where the collapsing Wards on the Citadel are going to go. They are clearly breaking off the Presidium. Canon also says that the material the wards are made of is too tough for the fleet's weapons to damage, so they can't break them up. Logic suggest at this point they have nowhere to go but down to Earth, pretty much destroying whatever's left.

[MDT1]

 I'd like a reasonable explanation how Prothean scientists could enter the Citadel and plant manipulations into it unnoticed for 50k years.

And I stress reasonable, not something like "normal downtime", "now regular communication", "very long vacation".
No, I realy need an explantion that would have made sense to implement in the first place.

Modifié par MDT1, 07 avril 2012 - 08:43 .

[Ronin1325]

MDT1 wrote...

 I'd like a reasonable explanation how Prothean scientists could enter the Citadel and plant manipulations into it unnoticed for 50k years.

And I stress reasonable, not something like "normal downtime", "now regular communication", "very long vacation".
No, I realy need an explantion that would have made sense to implement in the first place.

OOh, excellent point MDT1. Forgot about that. Yes, why exactly did the Catalyst allow those annoying Protheans to dink around the Citadel, sabotaging his precious Keepers for however long it took them? 

[Darth Wolfenbarg]

MDT1 wrote...

 I'd like a reasonable explanation how Prothean scientists could enter the Citadel and plant manipulations into it unnoticed for 50k years.

And I stress reasonable, not something like "normal downtime", "now regular communication", "very long vacation".
No, I realy need an explantion that would have made sense to implement in the first place.

They didn't. The signal never went to the Citadel, it went to the Keepers. The Protheans never understood the Citadel, there's no way they could modify it, so they altered the Keepers so they wouldn't respond to the signal. That's why Saren gets pissed off and shoots one at one point.

[Ronin1325]

Darth Wolfenbarg wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

 I'd like a reasonable explanation how Prothean scientists could enter the Citadel and plant manipulations into it unnoticed for 50k years.

And I stress reasonable, not something like "normal downtime", "now regular communication", "very long vacation".
No, I realy need an explantion that would have made sense to implement in the first place.

They didn't. The signal never went to the Citadel, it went to the Keepers. The Protheans never understood the Citadel, there's no way they could modify it, so they altered the Keepers so they wouldn't respond to the signal. That's why Saren gets pissed off and shoots one at one point.

Not sure I'm understanding you here. The VI on Ilos is clear that a bunch of Prothean scientists were on the citadel mucking about with the Keepers. How did the Catalyst not know this was going on? 

[Ieldra]

Just coming back. Surprising my thread actually got replies. Good.

I'd like to add some speculation about what and what is not set in stone, starting with the moment when Shepard is carried up on the platform:

(1) The starchild scene will stay. There's zero chance of it going away, so suggestions based on that will achieve nothing. We can hope for added dialogue options that don't make Shepard accepts its claims at face value, but the entity itself will stay.

(2) The three options for the final choice will stay. For those who want a fourth option - unfortunately, it kind of exists. You can wait and walk back to the platform. The result is "Critical mission failure: The Crucible has been destroyed"

Everything else is up for grabs in form of re-interpretation by added scenes. I don't think they'll go back on the relay network being non-functional after the end, but it's quite possible there will be new scenes which hint at rebuilding or repairing them in a reasonably short time for certain options taken and certain EMS ratings. The Normandy scene will stay but there might be scenes that hint the Normandy isn't lost, again for certain options taken because it achieves little to say the Normandy isn't lost if Earth is destroyed.

As for added suggestions, I think the ME3 team could do worse than let themselves be inspired by the Siduri's Unofficial Epilogues, especially the 4000+ EMS versions. Unfortunately some of the variants there create more plot holes, but the ME3 teams should be sensitive to such after the reaction to the ME3 endings.

My suggestions list would include:

(1) Added dialogue options for the Catalyst where it explains its reasoning better.
(2) A less nonsensical explanation of the Synthesis
(3) Epilogue scenes or slides about the places affected by your decisions. If places from ME1 and ME2 could be included that would be great!
(4) If Shepard lives, a scene where they reunite with their LIs
(5) A scene explaining why Joker hightailed it out of there and why the two squad members you took with you are on board.
(6) A scene explaining that the relay system remains either functional or only slightly damaged in the Control ending.
(7) A fix to the flashback so that it always shows your current LI, instead of just Liara or the VS.
(8) A Change to the ending cutscenes around Earth to make their differences more noticeable. As it is, meticulous analysis is required to see some of the differences.

Maybe more to come. Need to think. What I explicitly do NOT want is too detailed epilogues for the characters. I think if it's not a foregone conclusion, what our favorite characters do after the war, if they survived, should be left to our imagination. For instance, I'd like to see a (silent) scene with Tali talking with other quarian admirals on a liveship, but I don't want to know if she starts a 20-year trek back to Rannoch immediately or stays in the Sol system for a while. I like the ending to be open to stories written by the fans, we just need some common ground as a foundation.

One more thing:
Don't expect all plot holes to be explained. All stories have plot holes. Most of the time, we fill them with our own imagination or don't care about them because they're not important enough and we're otherwise emotionally satisfied. Things of this kind are "Why did Harbinger leave". It doesn't need to be explained. Perhaps there was some reason it thought Shepard was dead. It doesn't matter, really. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 avril 2012 - 08:57 .