242 réponses à ce sujet

[babies8mydingo]

It was very lazy, and disrespectful to Tali fans (although I'm not one myself). They should have either kept it a mystery (leave it to the player's imagination) or put real effort into making something really good - which is frankly how they should've handled the Reapers as well.

It's far from the worst problem with the game (the ending, lack of a proper quest journal system, incredibly buggy multiplayer all come ahead for me), but it does illustrate the corner cutting that went on, which the excuses listed by the op only make worse.

[mrcanada]

arthurhallam wrote...

YAWN. no one cares. the photo was fine & suited her character.

so what if it was a "stock image" - they still have to find it.

now, if you don't like it, go do something else with your life.

Hilarious and in no way, shape or form did the photo image suit Tali's face reveal.  Not even close.

[LordJeyl]

Well, if I tasked someone to create a Quarian's face from scratch and this is what he handed me, I would say "Good start, but the fingers are off, the hair is too much and why would she give you a photo of just herself? Does she have an "I LOVE ME!" photo album just lying around?"

I would NEVER sign off on this image as in-game content.

Modifié par LordJeyl, 07 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[Jedifan421]

Kolotosa wrote...

I don't really care that they went this route personally, since I'll probably never see it in any of my games, but the thing that I find kind of strange and/or disappointing is that it basically implies that even after 2 other games, countless hours of writing, sketching, finding the voice, building her character from the ground up...even Bioware didn't have as clue what Tali looked like under the hood until they found some stock image they thought was hot. And I think that's why it comes across as a lazy hack job.

This. Thank you. You'd have figured they'd have planned out what the Quarians look like under the masks. Nope.

[Scalpels]

Mademon wrote...

Ah. I have not read the books ... but would be surprized if Quarian physiology was elaborated upon and it was not more widely discussed from them.

Was this codex with the collector's edition of ME?

Mass Effect: Ascension has several chapters that take place on the floatilla. (Specifically the Idenna, I think...). During these chapters they talk about quarian life/culture and answer some basic biology questions like "how do you use the restroom in a suit."

Before the floatilla chapters, one of the characters comes across a naked tortured quarian. There is a pretty good (if revolting) description of the torture done to the poor guy's face.

As a bonus, Kahlee sanders (from Grissom Academy) is a big part of the book.

[FS3D]

kaztas wrote...

so Tali can go without a suit onto another world even though her race has been forced to live in suits even on thier own ships, except birthing rooms (still lots of risks) and....be..completely healthy?

1: Rannoch is her homeworld. It's where the Quarians came from, so it makes sense that their own world would be more suited to their physiology. The Codex does specify that their immune systems were weak to begin with because they exist in symbiosis with the existing life forms.

If any world is likely to be less harmful an environment, it's Rannoch.

2: The only person in close proximity to her on Rannoch was Shepard. Actual infections will not transfer between the two because of the reverse chirality of the two species... They are incompatible. It's more likely to be an allergic reaction, and assuming she was a LI in a given playthrough, she has adapted to his physiology already.

Again, this is implied, rather than explicitly stated, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

--Edited for grammatical errors.

Modifié par FS3D, 07 avril 2012 - 12:06 .

[kaztas]

I honestly think they didn't plan on revealing her at all. but a few devs wanted to and were given the ok with a last second add, probably thinking, "She died we have to give the fans something."

[goose2989]

Mademon wrote...

goose2989 wrote...

Well thanks for reading it anyways, buddy. I almost loved the way Tali turned out

I tried to phrase myself so as not to come across as dismissive, but I definitely chose the wrong words. You did an amazing job with that photo.
I honestly did not mean to offend.

Ha no I wasn't being sarcastic. I didn't make that photo. I was stating how the photo in-game was almost perfect. I really liked her overall design

Don't worry buddy we're fine

[Ashilana]

It was added at the last minute. It was yet another oversight they refuse to admit.

They will not budge. When the PR decision is made to not apologize is made, they have no choice but to lie forever after...any admission of wrong doing now would reveal how they have only continued to lie.

[Tony208]

arthurhallam wrote...

YAWN. no one cares. the photo was fine & suited her character.

so what if it was a "stock image" - they still have to find it.

now, if you don't like it, go do something else with your life.

the amount of lol in this post

[kaztas]

FS3D wrote...

kaztas wrote...

so Tali can go without a suit onto another world even though her race has been forced to live in suits even on thier own ships, except birthing rooms (still lots of risks) and....be..completely healthy?

1: Rannoch is her homeworld. It's where the Quarians came from, so it makes sense that their own world would be more suited to their physiology. The Codex does specify that their immune systems were weak to begin with because they exist in symbiosis with the existing life forms.

If any world is likely to be less harmful an environment, it's Rannoch.

2: The only person in close proximity to her on Rannoch was Shepard. Actual infections will not transfer between the two because of the reverse chirality of the two species... They are incompatible. It's more likely to be an allergic reaction, and assuming she was a LI in a given playthrough, she has already adapted to his physiology already.

Again, this is implied, rather than explicitly stated, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I thought I remembered Tali or a codex saying that because they have been gone so long, even Rannoch wasn't safe, hence the reason the Geth were integreating themselves into the Quarians suits to help build antibodies to live on Rannoch..

also..when did Tali have the time O.o  heh. There, fighting, won, gone to fight some more....(forgivable oversight to say sometime before they left )

[Kalyppso]

Scalpels wrote...
Mass Effect: Ascension has several chapters that take place on the floatilla. (Specifically the Idenna, I think...). During these chapters they talk about quarian life/culture and answer some basic biology questions like "how do you use the restroom in a suit."

Before the floatilla chapters, one of the characters comes across a naked tortured quarian. There is a pretty good (if revolting) description of the torture done to the poor guy's face.

As a bonus, Kahlee sanders (from Grissom Academy) is a big part of the book.

=) Cool.

I may yet concede to reading it. I was extremely interested in the Mass Effect Universe before I completed ME3 - though I'm sure this sounds unlikely as then, why would I not have read the books as they were released? I don't have a good answer for that. Other material was on my bedside table. But even from just those sentences I assume you liked Ascension?

I've come off topic from the Tali's face discussion. I will be sure to brush up on my subject matter ... and wish there was more to work from. Perhaps seeds on Rannoch behaves as sand or bacteria on Earth? ... Unless you have an answer for this too? I mean to be curious, not condescending.

[Scalpels]

More fan art. I love how expressive this artist makes her.

[Jedifan421]

Tony208 wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

YAWN. no one cares. the photo was fine & suited her character.

so what if it was a "stock image" - they still have to find it.

now, if you don't like it, go do something else with your life.

the amount of lol in this post

Just ignore him.

[TheBishop_82]

I just want to know why they didn't use Ash Sroka, the voice actress. She's pretty without being 'perfect' and, to me, looks like she/Tali sounds.

[FS3D]

kaztas wrote...

FS3D wrote...

kaztas wrote...

so Tali can go without a suit onto another world even though her race has been forced to live in suits even on thier own ships, except birthing rooms (still lots of risks) and....be..completely healthy?

1: Rannoch is her homeworld. It's where the Quarians came from, so it makes sense that their own world would be more suited to their physiology. The Codex does specify that their immune systems were weak to begin with because they exist in symbiosis with the existing life forms.

If any world is likely to be less harmful an environment, it's Rannoch.

2: The only person in close proximity to her on Rannoch was Shepard. Actual infections will not transfer between the two because of the reverse chirality of the two species... They are incompatible. It's more likely to be an allergic reaction, and assuming she was a LI in a given playthrough, she has already adapted to his physiology already.

Again, this is implied, rather than explicitly stated, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I thought I remembered Tali or a codex saying that because they have been gone so long, even Rannoch wasn't safe, hence the reason the Geth were integreating themselves into the Quarians suits to help build antibodies to live on Rannoch..

Probably true, though I haven't read the codex in a while. Still... It has to be safer than any other place in the galaxy, barring a clean-room environment.

also..when did Tali have the time O.o  heh. There, fighting, won, gone to fight some more....(forgivable oversight to say sometime before they left )

That's a good question. Exposure to simply removing her face mask on the surface would not be as great as doing a full-body suit removal a-la manShep love scene, but then it's never explained when she had that photo taken.

Lots of speculation for everyone (yes I know, it's getting old now)

[SiriusXI]

Jedifan421 wrote...

"Why did we choose to show Tali's face at all, and two, why was it the way it looked?"

1.) Because everyone wondered, "and we wanted to do it in a tasteful way that didn't throw it into the game engine." (Important because of what is said next).

2.) We often use source material, source art, for MANY things withing the game (Of course, reusing of other pieces of art, like concept art, makes sense.) -- wanted it to be photorealistic, high fidelity, correct color  (Okay sounds good.) -- as close to a picture as possible (Okay.) Pored through thousands of images to combine extisting image and artistic vision (We get it, you're artists. No true artist that isn't coming off as pretentious would keep throwing these terms around.) to create Tali's face.

Calling for Samara cosplayers in room to stand up -- the woman in the back is the actual Samara face model, here cosplaying. (Almost like it was planned.)

"great example of how a real face" can make a good image. Liara also face model, Shepard (dude), Miranda (This is where the contradiction and bull occur.)

"We really felt that Tali deserved that same treatment - we wanted her to be based on a real person, because that relationship is important to players" (Wow.)

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, I'm speechless.

Actually, not quite.

So basically what I'm getting at is that BioWare wanted Tali's face to "be photorealistic, high fidelity, correct color", ''in  a tasteful way that didn't throw it into the game engine" but then call for the Samara face model cosplaying as Samara to stand up and acknowledges a "great example of how a real face" can make a good image.

Then they acknowledge that "Liara is also a face model, Shepard (dude), Miranda", all clear examples of faces that were handled in the game engine.

So why didn't they just model someone for her face from BioWare such as, maybe, THE VOICE ACTRESS or A MODEL THEY CAN ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY TAKE A PICTURE OF IN REAL LIFE AND SCAN INTO THE GAME ENGINE INSTEAD OF USING A STOCK PHOTO FROM GETTY IMAGES?

The answer: EA forced them to cut corners. Saying you had thousands of images to pick from, source art including, but you went with a stock photo from Getty Images and then having the audacity to say "we really felt that Tali deserved that same treatment" as Shepard or Miranda or Liara or Samara, when she obivously didn't get that, takes guts, I'll give them that.

Were all the photos you used for modeling the faces in-game stock photos too? Nope.
All those faces were ones that, you know, GOT IMPLEMENTED INTO THE GAME ENGINE AND CODEX PICTURES TOO! So they were consistent and were full of detail and took time. Apparently though, for Tali, putting her face in the game engine is just stupid and would feel "thrown in." Oh the irony.

Also, lazy Photoshopping such as NOT EVEN GETTING HER FINGERS RIGHT and basically drawing lines and whiting the eyes just assuming "Herp, derp. Three fingers, three fingers, lines here, white eyes, that totally matches" is basically the same as the detail put into Liara, Shepard, Miranda and Samara is INSULTING.

Out of all the bull from BioWare at the panel, this was...just...too much. I feel sorry if you picked Tali as your love interest and got that photo for your reward. Just another reason why Mass Effect 3 felt rushed and unfinished.

You know... reading these words form Bioware... I think I get now how Sheldon feels when talking to Penny.

[Jedifan421]

Scalpels wrote...

More fan art. I love how expressive this artist makes her.

If this had been the basis for her face, and it had been modeled and rendered in game, almost no one would be complaining. Fan art like this is awesome.

[kaztas]

Sparatus wrote...

She was in a decontamination chamber with a Rannoch theme for a background.

Continuity preserved.

Space Magic would have been an acceptable answer as well.

[kaztas]

"We minimally photo-shopped a Getty image for a largely beloved character."

Artistic integrity upheld!!

Modifié par kaztas, 07 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[Scalpels]

Mademon wrote...

I may yet concede to reading it. I was extremely interested in the Mass Effect Universe before I completed ME3 - though I'm sure this sounds unlikely as then, why would I not have read the books as they were released? I don't have a good answer for that. Other material was on my bedside table. But even from just those sentences I assume you liked Ascension?

I liked all the books from Drew Karpyshyn. He clearly knows the universe's lore and the hard science underpinning it. He doesn't make the characters "pop" the way the games do which can be off-putting to some people.

Mademon wrote...

I've come off topic from the Tali's face discussion. I will be sure to brush up on my subject matter ... and wish there was more to work from. Perhaps seeds on Rannoch behaves as sand or bacteria on Earth? ... Unless you have an answer for this too? I mean to be curious, not condescending.

I wish there was more to work from too, but we can speculate (a bad word these days) on how it would work. We know Rannoch has no insects (great place to picnic), has a more orange sun and is more arid than earth. That is about it.

I see plants on Rannoch relying on wind borne pollen to mix genes and wind or fruit as a method of distributing seeds. But it is a wide universe and we don't need to limit ourselves to terrestrial examples.

[Jedifan421]

kaztas wrote...

"We minimally photo-shopped a Getty image for a largely beloved character."

Artistic integrity upheld!!

"Without the fans, we are artists with no audience." Paraphrasing the final quote of the day. It takes balls, I'll give them that to be so pretentious as to keep throwing out the whole "We're artists!" shtick.

[Scalpels]

TheBishop_82 wrote...

I just want to know why they didn't use Ash Sroka, the voice actress. She's pretty without being 'perfect' and, to me, looks like she/Tali sounds.

When the Talimancers were disappointed that there was no reveal in Tali's romance in ME2 we wondered the same thing. One Talimancer actually photoshopped Mrs.Sorka's face into Tali's mask.  I would have linked it, but I have long since lost that image.

[DocJill]

Nice to know "artistic integrity" now includes Photoshopping a picture off of the internet for one of the most anticipated moments of the game.