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Threading the Needle: Now With Synthesis


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#1
Fapmaster5000

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There's a Thesis Statement for what I'm about to attempt here.  If you'd like to take a look at it, here's the link: http://social.biowar...8797/3#11155788 .  

TL;DR for the link: This is a little game I'm going to play: Can the ending be extended, clarified, and granted closure in a way that doesn't really change them, but totally changes them?  I think so, and I managed to create three endings that are the "same" but different, as well as being different meanings based on Paragon, Renegade, and EMS score, plus choices made.

Now, on with the show!


EXAMPLE: DESTRUCTION:

Shepard staggers towards the red ending, raising his sidearm to fire.

CATALYST: "If you do this, you will destroy everything you've fought for."

Shepard fires a shot into the propane tank thing.

CATALYST:  "There is a better way.  You do not need to throw everything away.  Synthesis/Control can still save this cycle."

RENEGADE INTERRUPT:
  • SHEPARD: "I didn't come here to stop the Reapers.  I came here to kill them."  Shepard fires again..
{IF GETH ARE ALIVE - CATALYST:  If you do this, you will destroy the geth.  Would you consign a species to death?}

CATALYST:  "Your ship is controlled by a synthetic lifeform.  It fights with you.  You would destroy it as well."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:
  • UPPER RIGHT - "She.  She fights with me  {IF GETH ARE ALIVE - "and so do the geth"}.  They chose to fight; they chose to risk everything, rather than consent to your control <shows blue ending> {IF OVER 3000 EMS - "rather than consent to your vision"<shows green ending>}.  EDI is my friend 
     {IF GETH ARE ALIVE - "and the geth are my allies"} and their/her sacrifice will be honored."
  • NEUTRAL - "I don't believe you."
  • LOWER RIGHT - "They knew the risks.  You can't scare me off with fears, kid.  Not now, not ever.  Today you die."
  • MIDDLE LEFT: Walk away, choose another ending.

CATALYST - WORRIED: "You will die, Shepard.  This is not an escape.  The cycle will continue."[/list]

DIALOGUE WHEEL:
  • {IF UNITED GETH AND QUARIAN - UPPER LEFT: "No."  Shepard, defiant, levels his gun at the Catalyst.  "You're wrong.  We united the geth and the Quarians.  They're fighting, right out there, together, against you!  Against your blinded "solution"."}
  • {IF UNITED GETH AND QUARIAN - LOWER LEFT: "I've got a couple million synthetics and organics right outside, with a couple thousand megatons of counter-argument aimed right at your "solution", kid."}
  • UPPER RIGHT: "This is your doing, your creation.  You can't damn every possible future because of a prediction!"
  • NEUTRAL: "Maybe.  My orders stand.  Today, your cycle ends."
  • LOWER RIGHT: "And I really don't care why you're doing this, or what you're trying to prove.  Kill or be killed, and I think this cycle's just about over."
  • MIDDLE LEFT: Walk away, choose another ending.
CATALYST - DESPERATE: "Shepard, we are the solution to the chaos of the galaxy.  Without the cycle, and without a solution, the end is inevitable.  We have watched, we have waited, and we have learned.  This galaxy's history is a litany of atrocities, one piled upon another.  The Krogan were uplifted to fight the Rachni, then decimated with the genophage.  This is just one one enormity of many.  With each year, with each decade, your capacity for horror escalates.  Without control, the chaos and barbarity will continue.  {IF OVER 3000 EMS - "Without synthesis, there can be no salvation."}  This would be no victory, Shepard."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:
  • {IF CURED GENOPHAGE AND GAINED SALARIAN SUPPORT AND SAVED THE RACHNI - UPPER LEFT: Shepard shakes his head, disgusted.  "I understand you, Catalyst.  I didn't before, but now I do.  You point out every atrocity, every tragedy, and level it as evidence in need of your judgment.  The Rachni Wars, the Krogan Rebellion, they were horrendous.  But look out there, Catalyst.  Those are united fleets, Krogan and Turian and Salarian and Asari {IF BATARIAN SUPPORT - "and Batarian"} and human.  They stand, united, against you!  And do you see that out there <Shepard points>?  That's a Rachni ship.  You turned the Rachni into a weapon, through Sovereign's control.  You turned them into a plague, let them loose on the galaxy, and yet here they stand, free, and united with the Victory fleet.  You've already lost. }
  • {IF DID NOT CURE GENOPHAGE AND KEPT KROGAN SUPPORT -  LOWER LEFT: War is hell, sure.  But we survive.  Always have, always will.  You're just another loser in a long chain. <Shepard spits blood on the floor.>}
  • UPPER RIGHT: "You assume the cycle will never change.  You assume that organics are nothing but chaos.  You assume far too much.  We adapt, that's what we do.  We adapted to fight you, we will adapt to survive another day.  You threw away hope, and created this monstousity.  We throw that away, and choose hope instead."
  • NEUTRAL: "In another day, perhaps.  Maybe we'll learn from this, maybe we'll get a little smarter, maybe we'll get a little more tolerant.  Maybe not.  What I do know is, we're fighting and dieing, here, together, to stop you, and I will not betray that sacrifice.  Save your arguments, Catalyst.  I'm not listening."
  • LOWER RIGHT: "You'd be dead.  We'd survive.  Seems like a pretty solid victory to me."
  • MIDDLE LEFT: Walk away, choose another ending.
Shepard strides towards the control unit, firing his pistol.  Behind him, the Catalyst begins to panic, it's ranting growing more "reaper-like" by the moment.

CATALYST: "You cannot do this!  Without a solution, without the cycle, chaos will consume everything.  Order must be applied!  We are that order!  We are your salvation through destruction!  Shepard, you would destroy everything!  You must not!  You can not!  Shepard!  We beg you, stop!"


{IF PURE RENEGADE PLAYTHROUGH - RENEGADE INTERRUPT:
  • Shepard stops shooting, and grins wickedly. SHEPARD: "You know what, kid?  You had me.  I was bleeding, dying, pointlessly, right below our feet.  You'd won.  Everything was in your favor.  And yet, you brought me up here, showed me this, and I had to wonder, "Why?"  Why give me this chance, why take this risk?  I figured it out.  You didn't want to beat me.  You wanted to break me, didn't you, Harbinger?  You wanted me to crawl down your tunnels and beg you to beat me.  You wanted the pleasure."
  • CATALYST - PURE PANIC: "Shepard!  Don't-"
  • SHEPARD: "I didn't know machines could feel pleasure."  Shepard raises gun, smiling broadly.  "Apparently, you can feel fear, too.  And to think, that once, we feared you."
  •  Catalyst makes reaper-screech/wail, Shepard fires one last time.}
{IF PURE PARAGON PLAYTHROUGH - PARAGON INTERRUPT:
  • Shepard stops shooting, and lowers gun slightly, looking suddenly at peace.  SHEPARD: "I don't believe you."
  • CATALYST - DESPERATE: "We have foreseen-"
  • SHEPARD: "Everything you've said is a lie.  You said organics were nothing but chaos, but we've organized a defense.  You said organics and synthetics must destroy each other, but we've united against you.  The Rachni were your tool, corrupted by you to attack us.  The geth were your pawns, twisted against us.  Saren was your victim, thinking he could Synthesize a solution.  The Illusive Man was your plaything, gambling he could control your evil.  Every proof you have is a lie.  Every example an illusion.  You are the problem.  You are the fault.  I reject your solutions!  I reject your assumptions!"  Shepard raises his weapon, defiant.  The Catalyst recoils slightly, eyes widening.  "I reject you, and I deny you and your lies!"
  • CATALYST: "There can be-"
  • SHEPARD: "I say they live!  I say they all live!"
  • CATALYST: "Another solution can be-"
  • SHEPARD: "Here's my 'solution', Catalyst!  Turn it off!!"
  • CATALYST - CONFUSED: "I don't understand-"
  • SHEPARD: "No, you don't!  Turn it off! Turn them all off!" Shepard points to the Reaper fleet.  "They're your solution, right?  Well, if your solution is so vital, then turn them off, right now, or you lose everything!"
  • CATALYST: "I cannot-"
  • SHEPARD:  "No, you will not.  There's a difference.  We all have a choice."
  • CATALYST: "Shepard!  There is a compromise-"SHEPARD: "Not with you.  Not today.  Not ever.  Here's my solution.Shepard fires one last time.}

CUE ENDING EXPLOSION - RED.  CUE *HOPEFULLY EXPANDED* FINALE CUTSCENES AND NEW EPILOGUES.

END EXAMPLE.

Now, that's simplistic, only covers one ending, and was written on the fly.  However, it keeps the ending, while, I think, making the meaning quite a bit richer, giving us more choice, and letting us tell starbaby to shove it.  A similiar ending (different tone) could be done for Control, fleshing it out.  Not so sure about Green Space Magic, but that's my personal bias creeping in, since I *despise* green ending in principle and in execution.

And if you're wondering why Paragon talks so much more than Renegade, well, I always felt RenegadeShep let bullets doing the talk for them.

So, whad'ya'think?



EDIT: Added "Extended Ending Example: Control" later in thread. That one was a little more difficult, but I think I got it to work.

EDIT: Added "Extended Ending Example: Synthesis" later in thread. This one took me a LOT longer, and wasn't quite as clean, but I do believe I established a version of Synthesis that I can live with. This one required the most retcon and alteration, so I don't think it quite qualifies as "extended" so much as "fanon", but, hey, let me know what you think!

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 28 avril 2012 - 04:53 .


#2
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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NO! IT CAN'T BE LIKE THAT! WE HAVE TO RAGE--FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You're not going to convince the lunatic fringe that this DLC could work with the current ending we have. I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.

Modifié par BringBackNihlus, 07 avril 2012 - 01:57 .


#3
Hexley UK

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Very creative....which is why Bioware won't do anything like it.

#4
lillitheris

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BringBackNihlus wrote...

NO! IT CAN'T BE LIKE THAT! WE HAVE TO RAGE--FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You're not going to convince the lunatic fringe that this DLC could work with the current ending we have. I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.


Well, um, the OP's scenario is not just a ‘clarification’ – it is adding functionally different endings. Incidentally, I think this is what BioWare is doing under the guise of ‘clarification’, but, yeah, actual clarification wouldn't be sufficient.

#5
Fapmaster5000

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lillitheris wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

NO! IT CAN'T BE LIKE THAT! WE HAVE TO RAGE--FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You're not going to convince the lunatic fringe that this DLC could work with the current ending we have. I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.


Well, um, the OP's scenario is not just a ‘clarification’ – it is adding functionally different endings. Incidentally, I think this is what BioWare is doing under the guise of ‘clarification’, but, yeah, actual clarification wouldn't be sufficient.

Well, not really.  The same "things" happened.  You got blowed up, you went to the citadel, fought TIM, got pulled up the elevator, had trippy time with Starkid, and then got to pick three colors and watch the light show.  The same things happened, but with a few (not that many) extra bits, the meanings all got swapped around and "clarified" to be something else tonally.

#6
warrior256

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BringBackNihlus wrote...

NO! IT CAN'T BE LIKE THAT! WE HAVE TO RAGE--FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You're not going to convince the lunatic fringe that this DLC could work with the current ending we have. I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.


Uh... I'm part of this so called "lunatic fringe" who do not like the DLC. Just because you are happy with what you have been offered doesn't mean that every single person has to agree with you. I think many people who dislike the expanded ending dlc are being quite reasonable about it. There are many valid arguements on our side so I would advise you to do some research into our views before calling us lunatics.

#7
Fapmaster5000

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warrior256 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

NO! IT CAN'T BE LIKE THAT! WE HAVE TO RAGE--FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You're not going to convince the lunatic fringe that this DLC could work with the current ending we have. I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.


Uh... I'm part of this so called "lunatic fringe" who do not like the DLC. Just because you are happy with what you have been offered doesn't mean that every single person has to agree with you. I think many people who dislike the expanded ending dlc are being quite reasonable about it. There are many valid arguements on our side so I would advise you to do some research into our views before calling us lunatics.

I don't think he was mocking you/us/them.  I think he was just giving some light hazing (I hope).  

Now, if it's just an extra couple minutes of crap and people starving, then, yeah, that will be suck.  However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt (I mean, the other 95% was awesome, and trolling IS NOT a business model), and say that something like *this*, which I could accept, would still be "clarification and closure" instead of "rewrite", since no plot got changed.  The tone did.

#8
Irishkev

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Sadly they said no dialouge just or gameplay will be added just cutscences so I don't think we can expect anything like that

#9
warrior256

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Fapmaster5000 wrote...

warrior256 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

NO! IT CAN'T BE LIKE THAT! WE HAVE TO RAGE--FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You're not going to convince the lunatic fringe that this DLC could work with the current ending we have. I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.


Uh... I'm part of this so called "lunatic fringe" who do not like the DLC. Just because you are happy with what you have been offered doesn't mean that every single person has to agree with you. I think many people who dislike the expanded ending dlc are being quite reasonable about it. There are many valid arguements on our side so I would advise you to do some research into our views before calling us lunatics.

I don't think he was mocking you/us/them.  I think he was just giving some light hazing (I hope).  

Now, if it's just an extra couple minutes of crap and people starving, then, yeah, that will be suck.  However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt (I mean, the other 95% was awesome, and trolling IS NOT a business model), and say that something like *this*, which I could accept, would still be "clarification and closure" instead of "rewrite", since no plot got changed.  The tone did.

Alright, i'll be honest and admit that I think your way is the best way to handle the clarification dlc (if it is indeed just a few extra scenes near the end and nothing more). I'd love for any chance to basically go against the StarChilds wishes and this would make that possible! Image IPB Only downside is that it keeps the Normandy crashing and all that but like you said, hopefully the cutscenes will at least be expanded so that it does not leave such a bitter taste in our mouths.

Modifié par warrior256, 07 avril 2012 - 02:22 .


#10
Fapmaster5000

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Irishkev wrote...

Sadly they said no dialouge just or gameplay will be added just cutscences so I don't think we can expect anything like that

I'd imagine any voice work would be later this spring/early summer in any event.  And yeah, low chance of anything with gameplay... but hey, if we give constructive ideas, maybe they'll be more apt to run with something like this.

#11
TransientNomad

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That would be superior to what we got. Well written indeed. But still doesn't do much for those against the "starchild," relays blowing up, or several plotholes, but still would have been superior to what we got. I have been going from disgust and cynicism to cautious hope about this whole thing. One thing I have learned however is you can't trust Bioware.

#12
Fapmaster5000

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warrior256 wrote...

Alright, i'll be honest and admit that I think your way is the best way to handle the clarification dlc (if it is indeed just a few extra scenes near the end and nothing more). I'd love for any chance to basically go against the StarChilds wishes and this would make that possible! Image IPB

Yay!

And, yeah, a large part of this was, "Man, I really wanted to tell that little bastard to go shove it.  Too bad none of the endings- wait a minute, from a funny angle, destruction kind of does look like a giant middle finger to the Catalyst, especially if we assume he's a lying jerk."  Then I got the idea for this thread, and a "we all win" scenario.

Bioware keeps the ending they had envisioned.  I, and many other fans, get to give Starbrat the finger and feel victorious, even at great cost.

#13
Wolven_Soul

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I'm sorry, but any ending involving the star child still sucks.

#14
Fapmaster5000

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Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Irishkev wrote...

Sadly they said no dialouge just or gameplay will be added just cutscences so I don't think we can expect anything like that

I'd imagine any voice work would be later this spring/early summer in any event.  And yeah, low chance of anything with gameplay... but hey, if we give constructive ideas, maybe they'll be more apt to run with something like this.

You can't trust ANY organization.  Organizations are functions, not people.

You can trust people, however, and while there's been some burnt bridges, I'll tentatively accept free stuff as a good faith effort, at least long enough to check out said free stuff!

#15
shepskisaac

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BringBackNihlus wrote...

I never thought we needed a complete rewrite for them to salvage the ending.

Agree. The current ending can be largely redeemed. Waiting to see how EC turns out.

#16
Fapmaster5000

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Wolven_Soul wrote...

I'm sorry, but any ending involving the star child still sucks.

Well, I can't stand him, either, but he's part of the ending.  So, how can he still suck, be part of the ending, and not make the ending suck?  By being able to call him out on sucking, in character. 

#17
Ashilana

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Sorry, there will be no new endings.  Shep will still collaborate with the genocidal maniac.

#18
Wolven_Soul

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Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Wolven_Soul wrote...

I'm sorry, but any ending involving the star child still sucks.

Well, I can't stand him, either, but he's part of the ending.  So, how can he still suck, be part of the ending, and not make the ending suck?  By being able to call him out on sucking, in character. 


I understand, and to a point I agree with you, and I honestly think that the scenarios that you laid out are pretty darned good.  It is just for me the existance of the little ghost brat just....I can't get past it.  I wish I could, I really do, I just can't.  It was really bad, lazy writing.

#19
warrior256

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Ashilana wrote...

Sorry, there will be no new endings.  Shep will still collaborate with the genocidal maniac.

Well I still wouldn't like it, but this sort of rewrite would make choosing destruction much more tolerable. It turns from just being one of the StarChilds options into you essentially rebelling against him. Ending still plays but the motivation for you picking this ending is different.

Actually, the more I read through this, the better it sounds.

#20
Deemz

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Irishkev wrote...

Sadly they said no dialouge just or gameplay will be added just cutscences so I don't think we can expect anything like that


I thought they just said no new gameplay. I know they are going to contact the voice actors.

#21
KingKhan03

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Hexley UK wrote...

Very creative....which is why Bioware won't do anything like it.


LOL!!!

#22
ErikModi

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Fapmaster5000 wrote...

[*]So, whad'ya'think?

[*]Damn stuipid bullet points.  But brilliant, sir, absolutely brilliant.

#23
MPSai

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Hexley UK wrote...

Very creative....which is why Bioware won't do anything like it.



#24
Valk72

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That would be actually acceptable, but like someone already wrote:

Hexley UK wrote...

Very creative....which is why Bioware won't do anything like it.



#25
cutegigi

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nah...its good, but wont happen......