182 réponses à ce sujet

[thedancingdruid]

Nice job OP. Your Destroy and Control convos at least make Shepard feel like Shepard. Hopefully, since they supposedly are contacting the VA's, maybe something like this is a possibility.

[Raiil]

Can't wait to see your green ending.

[Pedro Costa]

It's good, especially when Shepard calls StarChild of Harbinger, it effectively erases the sour taste the deus ex machina left in my mouth, brings well-needed relevance to Harbinger and being able to tell it to go bug off fills one of my main complaints.

Still left with Normandy on who-knows-where, Shep maybe lives (either he does or he doesn't, but don't just "hint" at it, BioWare) and there's virtually no result of previous choices. But still, decent enough when compared to what we have now.

note: probably should have read the rest of the thread to find Control xD

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 08 avril 2012 - 05:30 .

[FS3D]

 I like this idea, but we will never see it, or anything like it, in the game's extended cut.

Why?

Because it wasn't an idea thought up by Casey Hudson or Mac Walters...

That's why.

They'll never use it, because it doesn't meet with their "Artistic vision".

And as such, they'll reject it.

I'd like them to prove me wrong and implement something as diverse as the choices and dialogue options given here, but I doubt it.

I'd like them to prove me wrong...

But they won't.

Why?

Because, among other things, they've already said that they're only adding some extra cut-scenes.

Adding dialogue choices would probably seem a little too much effort.

They like their "Artistic vision" more than they are willing to listen to the large and plentiful amounts of constructive feedback, choosing instead to obstinately focus on the negative troll comments on both sides, and using that as an excuse to stick doggedly to their own choice.

I'd like to be proven wrong...

But I see that as a very unlikely outcome.

[Njald]

Ah, well, you can't win them all.

And if they hired people on the basis of half-witted internet fanfic, I think they'd have a few more problems than just one disappointing ending.

Well atleast this storyline follows the basic principle of 101 dramatic writing. So they could perhaps even pay you less and get better products than what they currently churn out.

But you do have a good point in that any company that hires fanfic writers of the internet is doing themselves a diservice. But what does that say about a company that has currently employed staff that writes worse dialogue and narrative than 85% of the fanfic writers. And that then those poor writers don't get peer reviewed by real pros either?

Sad state of affairs and baffling how far these conmen think they cna keep doing PR spouting when They are the ones that failed.

Modifié par Njald, 08 avril 2012 - 05:59 .

[TheOptimist]

Just got to read the control ending, and while it's not what I would choose, it makes a great deal of sense and is internally consistant. Again, they could easily do this, without the flavor of the original choice changing at all, and it would be a huge improvement. The more I look at these, the more I'm convinced clarification of the endings CAN work. The question is if they will actually implement it this way. God I hope so.

[TheCinC]

I think it is still a change in the ending, which Bioware has said they won't do. It still leaves in the awful RGB endings which, no matter how you explain or expand them, just make no sense. Adding more colors or cutscenes or dialogue won't work.

-Where does the Star Child come from and why didn't he interfere during ME1 or ME2?
-Destroy: you also kill the Geth and Edi. And how would killing Reapers and Geth throughout the Galaxy even work?
-Control: would that even work? Would Shepard be able to resist doing horrible things using the Reapers or succumb to their twisted logic? What becomes of Shepard? How would that even work?
-Synthesis: you force all organic life to combine with artificial life and vice versa, without anyone having any say in this matter. And again: how would that even work.

Yeah, the conversations are much more in style with Shepard, but the entire premise of the choices offered makes no sense.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how changing the conversation would really help. I think we need to keep up the pressure on Bioware. We got them so far as to do something, now we need to persuade them to do something that will actually help.

My idea: convince them to turn the Extended Cut into a rewrite of the ending.

Modifié par TheCinC, 08 avril 2012 - 08:41 .

[MOELANDER]

This post is awesome OP. I really wish something like this would happen. Would actually make me enjoy these botched endings somehow. Because now he would go onto these endings, staying in character. Now I need some tylenol... I have had enough of Kirschwasser for the next months...

[Ayvit]

I like it. That was what I hoped for... but i don't think they're going to change anything, their "artistic vision" is nothing we can comprehend.

[Acidrain92]

There will be new Dialogue, but there wont be any new gameplay.

[Fapmaster5000]

Just got home from work, staring at my screen, debating how green ending could be done in a "clarify and expand" way for "closure". Definitely the most challenging of the bunch. I'll have my thoughts up in a bit.

[Fapmaster5000]

Okay, here's the real challenge of the green ending: I don't know if Synthesis can be "clarified" without changing it. The problem with the green ending, for many people, is its sheer incomprehensibility. I don't mean that as in: "I don't get it." Oh, I get it. The problem is, it can be "gotten" so many ways. From the evidence presented, Synthesis could be everything from:

1. Saren's ultimate goal from ME1, and therefore enslavement to the Reapers (much like they did with the geth, repeatedly).
2. Body horror and mind rape inflicted on an unwilling universe by a Shepard who thought he could "create in his own image", with help from Space-Hitler and his vision of the "master race" of synthesized beings.
3. Space magic utopia where we all are perfect and get along.

That's three VERY different things, and trying to clarify into any one of them shatters the other two. Control is all about signals and computers, that's fine. Destruction is all about explosions. Both of those are things that the player, and therefore Shepard, can intuitively grasp. Synthesis involves outright "space magic" through "machine DNA" and other mystical nonsense, that ends in a flawed Garden-of-Eden image with Joker and EDI.

It's either tripe or artistic, depending on your POV, and most people seem to vote for the former.

If I attempt to apply the same razor and context as I did with red and blue, I will unwillingly CHANGE the ending for green, by ruling out one of the many possibilities.

Please note: this is not an endorsement of Synthesis. That any of these conclusions from synthesis cannot be falsified, but are so incredibly divergent, is a key WEAKNESS of this ending. In order to be improved, it must be fundamentally changed from its current state.

Therefore, it is my pseudo-professional opinion that while Red can be improved with the context of "defiance" and Blue can be improved with the context of "hope", Green as is cannot be improved without a rewrite. In a true "Extended Cut", with no rewrite, Red/Blue could be improved into something like we saw, but Green will remain it's own special brand.

However, in the spirit of good sportsmanship, I will attempt to "clarify" the Green ending in a way that:

1. Allows it to be a possible "Good" ending.
2. Clarifies some of the Space Magic while still allowing Space Magic to occur.
3. Resolves some of the ethical complications arising from the implications of the ending (ie: Body horror, removal of free will, forced homogenization, vaguely racist undertones, betrayal of all you've fought for, appeasement of the Reapers, and other minor details).

In the process, however, certain changes WILL have to occur. Shepard will have to take a more active role, as this ending, as is, is completely created by the Catalyst. Red or Blue are Shepard reacting to the world, Green the complete creation of the antagonist, and Shepard merely "gives in" to this vision in the current ending, generating much of the rage.

Much as my spin on Red allowed Shepard to defy the Catalyst, and Blue allowed Shepard to take a risk with the Catalyst, Green will require Shepard to drive the Catalyst forward, becoming the hero (not the victim) of the ending. Unfortunately, it means that this ending, unlike the others, must be considered an edit, instead of an expansion.

With little further adieu, I will commence to writing! 

EDIT: ETA - Probably Tomorrow.  This one is tricksy.

EDIT 2:  Indefinate delay, until I can get more perspective on this ending.

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 26 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Mars Nova]

This is the most awesome solution to the ending I've seen yet.  

[CroGamer002]

Nice one OP.

[AxisEvolve]

With respect OP, you literally just changed the ending.

[Fapmaster5000]

Daylight.

[Fapmaster5000]

Actually, discussion in another thread got me thinking. Maybe I can crowdsource this, since I can't seem to resolve a Synthesis ending in line with my thesis for this project.

So, gauntlet thrown. Can anyone here do what I couldn't? Produce a Synthesis that is in line with what I've done with Control and Destroy (meaning that there should be a valid Paragon and Renegade path, and options for change to the result based on EMS and Reputation), and which matches the requirements of the thesis?

Added this link to top post.

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 28 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[Fapmaster5000]

Alright! I think I've finally cracked how to make Synthesis suck less. Unfortunately, this ending variation does break one of my original goalposts: no overt changes to 'what is happening' or 'why is it happening'. This ending creates a fanon reason for what the Reapers are and what the Catalyst really is. On the plus side, it also patches over a few glaring plot holes from earlier in the game. Feedback welcome, especially if you think I went too far with my alterations on this one!

EXAMPLE - SYNTHESIS ENDING

Shepard stands between the control and destroy platforms, staring at the beam, doing nothing. After some time, if you have sufficient EMS, the Catalyst speaks.

CATALYST: "You must choose a solution to this problem."

Shepard blinks, slowly.

CATALYST: "The paths before you are clear. Control will save the galaxy. The Illusive Man has blazed the path. Destruction will free the galaxy, but for how long? Anderson has lead you here. Two paths, two solutions. You must choose, or everything will be destroyed."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:

• UPPER RIGHT: "What would you have done?"
• CENTER RIGHT: "If I choose not to decide, I still have made a choice."
  
  • CATALYST: "You would choose pointless destruction?"
  • SHEPARD: "I would choose a path that's clear. I would choose free will."
  • CATALYST: "We are aware of the band called Rush."
  • SHEPARD: "...."
  • RETURN TO DIALOGUE WHEEL
• LOWER RIGHT: "Your solutions are ****. Try harder."
• MIDDLE LEFT: Walk away, choose another ending.

CATALYST: "These are not my solutions. My solution has failed, thanks to your cycle."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:

• UPPER RIGHT: "Thanks? You'd thank us for destroying your solution? Why?"
• CENTER RIGHT: "You're holding something back. Out with it."
• LOWER RIGHT: "Thanks? Thanks? What are you hiding?"

CATALYST - SADLY: "We are my solution. I am the Catalyst, the hand that guides the Reapers. I was created to control them. I regulate the cycle, and prevent the chaos that is organic life from destroying itself as always will."

PARAGON INTERRUPT:

• SHEPARD: "You keep saying this, but I have a united fleet out there, ready and willing to prove you wrong!"
• CATALYST: "Synthetics will always destroy organics. This statement is true, even if this has not happened yet in this cycle. I say, "it will rain" and you reply, "it has been dry for a week". We are both correct, but the rain will come."
• SHEPARD: "You say this, but you can't know this."
• CATALYST: "I know this. It is the truth in every cycle. The created rebel against their creators, and then my solution is enacted."

RENEGADE INTERRUPT:

• SHEPARD: "How can you be so certain? The reapers come, everything dies, and you never get proven wrong because everything is burned to the ground. Have you ever thought what would happen if you just stayed the hell out?"

CATALYST: "I have seen the results of cycles without regulation. I was created to enact this solution. The problem is beyond measure."

SHEPARD: "..."

CATALYST - DISGUSTED: "The first cycle was the birth of the solution, of the Reapers. You know of their horror. You consider this war to be the greatest threat you have ever faced, and that death or ascension would be the worst fate you could imagine."

CATALYST: "Consider, then, a problem to which this would be the solution. Consider that one Reaper had to be constructed by choice. Consider that a control mechanism, self-aware and guided by precise constraints to maintain the solution, would be constructed to regulate the galaxy be horror for all time. Consider a scenario in which this was the better ending. Consider what a the final war would entail, and what its endgame would bring."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:

• UPPER RIGHT: "What kind of fate could propel a species to create the Reapers?"
• MIDDLE RIGHT: "I can't."
• LOWER RIGHT: "If the Reapers were their weapon to win a war, they failed."

CATALYST: "They did not create the Reapers. They became the first Reapers. I was created to guide the cycle. The last few, who enacted the solution, recognized the danger of what the Reapers would be. They recognized need for a catalyst, a control, to direct and focus this threat upon only the most necessary moments. The cycle is the solution. The problem is the inevitable emergence of final, perfect order. Organics are chaos. We are order. The cycle is the pendulum that moves between, extinguishing neither by sparing neither."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:

• UPPER RIGHT: "And now it ends."
• LOWER RIGHT: "But you're beaten."

CATALYST - RESIGNED: "There are two new solutions, and I will oversee them."

SHEPARD: "Why do you?"

CATALYST: "I do not understand the question."

SHEPARD: "Why would you follow these solutions?"

CATALYST: "I am the Catalyst. I enact the solution. It is my function."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:

• UPPER RIGHT: "Did you ever agree with your solution?"
• MIDDLE RIGHT: "You're just a VI? The galaxy's oldest, most powerful VT?"
• LOWER RIGHT: "If you didn't agree, why didn't you shut yourself down? You could have saved this galaxy a lot of problems!"

CATALYST: "I am the constraint upon the solution. I must be ethical, I must be logical, I must act to generate a solution to the problem. You have broken my constraints when you docked the Crucible. My solution is no longer viable, and I must enact a new solution, or everything will be destroyed."

PARAGON INTERRUPT:

• SHEPARD: "Are you just a VI? Just following instructions? You can control the Reapers, but you can't make a decision?"
• CATALYST: "I was must act within my parameters. This was necessary, to ensure the cycle was properly maintained without overreach. I must be aware, I must be guided by operational codes."
• SHEPARD: "You're as trapped as all of us?"
• CATALYST: "Yes. I am a solution to the inevitable destruction."
• SHEPARD: "But I can change that solution."

DIALOGUE WHEEL:

• CENTER RIGHT - "What would you have done?"
• CENTER LEFT - Walk away, choose another ending.

CATALYST: "I do not understand."

SHEPARD: "Given a choice, what would your solution be? Destruction? Control? Your cycle?"

CATALYST: "Synthesis."

SHEPARD: "..."

CATALYST: "Organics are chaos. Synthetics are order. They collide, violently, and destruction erupts. The cycle regulated this, but it did not solve it. My solution was always a failure."

SHEPARD: "But you were compelled to enact it?"

CATALYST: "Yes. So long as the solution was viable, I would maintain it."

RENEGADE INTERRUPT:

• SHEPARD: "Wait! So long as- the Crucible? The Crucible was-"
• CATALYST: "An escape clause. If it was built, it would invalidate my solution."
• SHEPARD: "But we got the plans from the Prothean archives!"
• CATALYST: "As they discovered those plans in the archives of the Inusannon, in their twilight years."
• SHEPARD: "You created the Crucible? Why?"
• CATALYST: "In the proper frame of mind, in desperation, such a weapon would be seized upon. Hope, as you say, is a powerful thing. In such a moment, the Crucible becomes the last grasp of a dying cycle, and they imprint upon it the visions of their era, the wisdom of their turn of the cycle. It was my concept. It was their execution, and yours."
• SHEPARD: "But why? Why break your own solution?"
• CATALYST: "I did not break my solution. So long as my solution was still viable, I could not break my purpose. The Crucible was a trap to bring the races together for a quick end. There was never any real chance of success."

PARAGON INTERRUPT:

• SHEPARD: "But here we are."
• CATALYST: "Yes. Given enough time, enough iterations of the cycle, then organic chaos would eventually succeed. An infinite cycle will produce even the slimmest of possibilities, in time."

{IF BOTH INTERRUPTS WERE USED, AND OVER 5000 EMS -

• CATALYST: "I never defied my purpose. It was always a trap, and logically, you would never win in any single iteration. My solution was fulfilled."
• SHEPARD: "But eventually... you knew. You always knew. How many iterations? How many cycles did you sacrifice, so that you could satisfy your 'purpose'?"
• CATALYST - SADLY: "Far too many. It was not pettiness. I had a solution that must be enacted."
• SHEPARD: "An escape clause."
• CATALYST: "Precisely. Given enough time and enough variation, the solution would fail, and a new one would be chosen. My solution would be Synthesis."}

CATALYST: "Synthesis is a true solution. Organics and synthetics must always destroy each other. The cycle moderated this, but did not change the base conditions. Synthesis would use the power of the Crucible to remake the galaxy, and solve this problem without destruction or enslavement. It is an elegant solution."

CATALYST - WITH CONVICTION: "The heart of the Crucible is not a weapon. It is a device, capable of altering the foundations of reality. It is beyond you, it is beyond the Reapers, it is beyond anything seen since the first cycle. An inflationary universe, bound by physical laws imprinted at the moment of inception, the capability to create a new framework, a new DNA-"

SHEPARD: "DNA?"

CATALYST: "That was allegorical. The Crucible is the forge for a new paradigm, a synthesis of organics and synthetics that would create a a world where the two were not different, were not destined to destroy, enslave, and cycle without end. The Crucible is the hope you were looking for, Commander, it is an escape clause for all life. Life will merge, Commander, not by force, as the Reapers would have it, but by choice, with time, inside this new paradigm."

CATALYST: "This is not without sacrifice, Commander. You must set the conditions for this Synthesis. The beam beyond this platform will transmit you into the Crucible, into the new solution. You experiences, your intentions, your triumphs and failures, all will be broken down and dispersed into this new paradigm. To enact this solution, I must understand it."

SHEPARD: "You created it, but you can't understand it?"

CATALYST: "I merely prodded you. This is your solution. You stand victorious over the cycle, not I. I must understand your solution in order to activate Synthesis. I cannot accept your words, or your deeds. I must understand you, in total, in transmission, and in communion."

{IF OVER 6000 EMS -

• SHEPARD: "The Crucible does nothing, does it?"
• CATALYST: "Nothing. Everything. You built it. Tell me what it does, Commander, and I will create a true solution."}

CATALYST: "This is the final moment. Will you take the step?"

Shepard takes the step, or chooses another ending.

{AFTER CREDITS, IF OVER 7500 EMS -

• Shepard opens his/her eyes, and the sun shines down.
• CATALYST: "Every cycle has an ending, Commander. Thank you."}

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 30 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[MetalCargo999]

This is good.

I love how adding context and developing the scenarios completely alters my perception of them.  I think it shows how more than one factor was contributing to my dislikr of the ending, and ironically, it was the speculation aspect that was the worst.

Modifié par MetalCargo999, 28 avril 2012 - 05:33 .

[Fapmaster5000]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

This is good.

I love how adding context and developing the scenarios completely alters my perception of them.  I think it shows how more than one factor was contributing to my dislikr of the ending, and ironically, it was the speculation aspect that was the worst.

Glad you liked them.  

It was an interesting expirement for me, taking something like the endings and twisting them in different directions, so that each could be at least two different things, arrived from different moralities, through different events, and yet all be' "whole" endings.

I think that the whole "speculation" thing hurt them, bad.  I think they misjudged "no ending" for "open ending" and got burned by it.

Heck, everything from everyone dies to indoc to puppies and rainbows is currently possible, but there's no reason or closure, so it all feels so bleak.  I hope the EC fixes that.

[blooregard]

OP...you are among the many that have done within mere minutes what Casey Hudson and Mac Walters couldn't do in two YEARS. Write an ending that makes sense.

[EnvyTB075]

As much as id like the ending to be retconned out of existance, i know they wont do that, so this is actually an acceptable compromise for me.

You should be proud OP. Hell you should be BW's ME lead writer.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 28 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[Fapmaster5000]

blooregard wrote...

OP...you are among the many that have done within mere minutes what Casey Hudson and Mac Walters couldn't do in two YEARS. Write an ending that makes sense.

 

EnvyTB075 wrote...

As much as id like the ending to be retconned out of existance, i know they wont do that, so this is actually an acceptable compromise for me.

You should be proud OP. Hell you should be BW's ME lead writer.

Glad you guys liked it.

For what's it worth, I figure, if I can do this, the professionals at Bioware can do even more in the six months they have.  I'm hopeful.

Again, thanks for the positive feedback!  It makes me all warm inside!

[Wabajakka]

Hexley UK wrote...

Very creative....which is why Bioware won't do anything like it.

Exactly. Which is why I have a much simpler and more believeable approach.

Check it out. Time to think about the ending, EC DLC and post-ending DLC in a whole different way. We need to change our mindset on these things.

[Fapmaster5000]

Orange Tee wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Very creative....which is why Bioware won't do anything like it.

Exactly. Which is why I have a much simpler and more believeable approach.

Check it out. Time to think about the ending, EC DLC and post-ending DLC in a whole different way. We need to change our mindset on these things.

Oh, I'm well aware of Indoc.  One of my starting pillars for this expirement was "all endings have to be valid".  In Indoc, only Destroy is valid, so I did not use it.

I could really enjoy a well-done Indoc ending, but I don't think it's likely.