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"I'm sorry, Legion" - Why you should kill the geth at Rannoch (if you picked Destroy)


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#1
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Note: This only applies if you, like most, pick the Destroy ending. If you, for some reason, actually prefer one of the other two, this thread is not directed to you.

Anyway, what with Bioware saying the current endings will not be changed, this means that when we fired at that tube and destroyed the Reapers, we also killed all the geth. Now, since the geth are going to die anyway, it stands to reason that it is better to kill them on Rannoch rather than recruit them only for them to be wiped out by red space magic. Here is why:

1. Legion's death is more meaningful. If you decide not to upload the code, Legion attacks Shepard, beats him up, and then gets a knife in the back from Tali. Here, Legion dies fighting for the geth's right to survive; he ultimately fails, but we see his struggle and empathize with him. His death still has weight. However, if you let him upload the code, then he dies upgrading his race that is only going to be killed in the end anyway. He basically sacrifices himself for no reason; his death in this way is pointless.

2. It fits with the ending more. Yes, I hate the endings as much as the rest of you, but we're stuck with them, so we have to make the most of what we've got. Anyway, if Shepard kills the geth, then his later decision to destroy all synthetics makes more sense and has some precedence, as opposed to coming out of nowhere. It makes more sense to make that choice when you haven't made a speech to Gerrel about how the geth deserve to live.

3. It doesn't have any other ill effects. Even if you wipe out the geth, Tali still ultimately tells Legion he has a soul and mourns his death, so her character development is still achieved. Also, the War Assets the geth provide are not enough to get the breathe ending without multiplayer and not necessary to get it with. Lastly, there are no future interactions with geth later in the game that you miss out on by destroying them.

4. Your decision is properly recognized in-game. If you destroy the geth on Rannoch, it is acknowledged. EDI is upset with you and you actually see the geth fleet getting destroyed. Tali even apologizes to Legion. If you destroy the geth in the ending, it happens off-screen; you don't see it, and it lacks any real impact. You don't get the feeling like you've actually wiped out a race that way; you're told and not shown. Nobody mourns the lost geth, or says anything about their demise beyond the one line from Starchild telling you they'll die.

5. It's a more fitting death. Much as they don't fully deserve it, there's a certain poetry towards the quarians destroying the geth. The creators destroying the created, revenge for all the people killed by them in the Morning War, finally reconquering their homeworld after their 300-year exile. If the geth die in the ending, it's by red space magic; it feels nonsensical and silly. We don't feel like it fits them at all, and it feels (and is) contrived.

6. It's morally right. Either way, the destruction of the geth is not a positive thing; however, if it must be done, it's better to do so before they receive upgrades from the Reaper code and attain true intelligence. Wiping out a race is never a good thing, but better it be done when they are at a lower state. The geth deserve to live more after they all gain intelligence, and thus if they are to die it should be done before this occurs.

So there it is. I don't like having to kill all the geth either, but if it has to be done, then ultimately, the story benefits from it happening sooner rather than later.

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 07 avril 2012 - 03:17 .


#2
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Bump for those fast-moving forums.

#3
Dridengx

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Legion doesn't die for their right to survive, he dies for their right to be fully AI.

Legion sure gets mad if you don't allow him to upload the reaper code, he even tries to kill you over it. interesting huh? once organics stand in their way, they would even kill their loyal friends.

Modifié par Dridengx, 07 avril 2012 - 02:13 .


#4
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The quarians and geth should just **** already. All of that sexual tension, after three centuries, is just starting to boil over.

#5
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Dridengx wrote...

Legion sure gets mad if you don't allow him to upload the reaper code, he even tries to kill you over it. interesting huh? once organics stand in their way, they would even kill their loyal friends.

Well, Wrex ultimately does the same thing if you don't help his race.

#6
Dridengx

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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Legion sure gets mad if you don't allow him to upload the reaper code, he even tries to kill you over it. interesting huh? once organics stand in their way, they would even kill their loyal friends.

Well, Wrex ultimately does the same thing if you don't help his race.


The difference is Wrex is fighting to save the extinction of his race. legion is fighting for freedom

Modifié par Dridengx, 07 avril 2012 - 02:14 .


#7
ticklefist

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Posted Image

#8
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I was more annoyed at Legion's jarring character change

Shepard-Commander, we reject the old machine's gifts. We will make our own future

Mass Effect 3

Shepard-Commander, WE WANT TO USE REAPER CODE! NOW!

#9
ticklefist

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Sparatus wrote...

The quarians and geth should just **** already. All of that sexual tension, after three centuries, is just starting to boil over.


www.youtube.com/watch

#10
Laurencio

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I strongly agree with the last point, which was my reasoning behind my final decision.

#11
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Dridengx wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Legion sure gets mad if you don't allow him to upload the reaper code, he even tries to kill you over it. interesting huh? once organics stand in their way, they would even kill their loyal friends.

Well, Wrex ultimately does the same thing if you don't help his race.


The difference is Wrex is fighting to save the extinction of his race. legion is fighting for freedom

Well, if you don't upload the code, the geth die, so it amounts to the same thing.

#12
J-Sheridan

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False.

The Geth were helping the Quarians to live in their suits or w/e. If you dont get them to live together then the Quarians get screwed more.

Additionally: Synthetics were the only ones affected by the Space Magic. Since the Geth uploaded themselves into some Quarians suits... either all Quarians in the galaxy are now going to die OR the Geth that are in those suits WILL survive and only need to be uploaded back into a suitable platform.

Result: Geth survived or both the Quarians AND Geth have been wiped out including anyone who has implants and the like.

#13
Shallyah

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I agree.

The Geth aren't true sentient beings before the code is uploaded, so by then it's not morally incorrect to kill them. Or it's as morally incorrect as smashing your smarthphone against a rock.

I'd love the Geth to survive, but if it can't be, it's best that their destruction at least means something and proves the point that the creators can actually destroy the created that rebel against them. It will give some food for thought to the godchild and his doomfilled ideas.



There is one thing, though. I don't know if the Red ending destroys the Geth as a whole, or only their synthetic "units". As far as I understand, the Geth are much like software, if they get destroyed by the red ending then you should expect all computers in the galaxy to get automatically formatted and all your DVDs become blank?

Modifié par Shallyah, 07 avril 2012 - 02:22 .


#14
D58

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For me it doesnt matter how intelligent they are still robots and always will be so it wasnt a hard choice,the game trys to guilt trip you into saving them only to make you lose tali,but as much as they did and tryed to make them seem like people they are not

#15
Apollo-XL5

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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Note: This only applies if you, like most, pick the Destroy ending. If you, for some reason, actually prefer one of the other two, this thread is not directed to you.

Anyway, what with Bioware saying the current endings will not be changed, this means that when we fired at that tube and destroyed the Reapers, we also killed all the geth. Now, since the geth are going to die anyway, it stands to reason that it is better to kill them on Rannoch rather than recruit them only for them to be wiped out by red space magic. Here is why:

1. Legion's death is more meaningful. If you decide not to upload the code, Legion attacks Shepard, beats him up, and then gets a knife in the back from Tali. Here, Legion dies fighting for the geth's right to survive; he ultimately fails, but we see his struggle and empathize with him. His death still has weight. However, if you let him upload the code, then he dies upgrading his race that is only going to be killed in the end anyway. He basically sacrifices himself for no reason; his death in this way is pointless.

2. It fits with the ending more. Yes, I hate the endings as much as the rest of you, but we're stuck with them, so we have to make the most of what we've got. Anyway, if Shepard kills the geth, then his later decision to destroy all synthetics makes more sense and has some precedence, as opposed to coming out of nowhere. It makes more sense to make that choice when you haven't made a speech to Gerrel about how the geth deserve to live.

3. It doesn't have any other ill effects. Even if you wipe out the geth, Tali still ultimately tells Legion he has a soul and mourns his death, so her character development is still achieved. Also, the War Assets the geth provide are not enough to get the breathe ending without multiplayer and not necessary to get it with. Lastly, there are no future interactions with geth later in the game that you miss out on by destroying them.

4. Your decision is properly recognized in-game. If you destroy the geth on Rannoch, it is acknowledged. EDI is upset with you and you actually see the geth fleet getting destroyed. Tali even apologizes to Legion. If you destroy the geth in the ending, it happens off-screen; you don't see it, and it lacks any real impact. You don't get the feeling like you've actually wiped out a race that way; you're told and not shown. Nobody mourns the lost geth, or says anything about their demise beyond the one line from Starchild telling you they'll die.

5. It's a more fitting death. Much as they don't fully deserve it, there's a certain poetry towards the quarians destroying the geth. The creators destroying the created, revenge for all the people killed by them in the Morning War, finally reconquering their homeworld after their 300-year exile. If the geth die in the ending, it's by red space magic; it feels nonsensical and silly. We don't feel like it fits them at all, and it feels (and is) contrived.

6. It's morally right. Either way, the destruction of the geth is not a positive thing; however, if it must be done, it's better to do so before they receive upgrades from the Reaper code and attain true intelligence. Wiping out a race is never a good thing, but better it be done when they are at a lower state. The geth deserve to live more after they all gain intelligence, and thus if they are to die it should be done before this occurs.

So there it is. I don't like having to kill all the geth either, but if it has to be done, then ultimately, the story benefits from it happening sooner rather than later.

So i take it your happy with EDI dying too, since she too is synthetic life.
This is why i think the whole sequence on the citadel is a indoc dream by the reapers, trying to make shep see their way by making the destroy option seem like the most harmful thing you could do to your allies in order to defeat the reapers.

#16
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Ironically, the geth probably wouldn't have died in the destroy ending if they hadn't let fear compromise who they were. Since, you know, the destroy magic only targets Reaper tech.

Or they dance it all away. Which would be pretty awesome.

Modifié par Sparatus, 07 avril 2012 - 02:25 .


#17
Mr. Big Pimpin

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J-Sheridan wrote...

False.

The Geth were helping the Quarians to live in their suits or w/e. If you dont get them to live together then the Quarians get screwed more.

Additionally: Synthetics were the only ones affected by the Space Magic. Since the Geth uploaded themselves into some Quarians suits... either all Quarians in the galaxy are now going to die OR the Geth that are in those suits WILL survive and only need to be uploaded back into a suitable platform.

Result: Geth survived or both the Quarians AND Geth have been wiped out including anyone who has implants and the like.

Hmm, interesting speculation. That fits in with the confusion of how exactly the Crucible distinguishes between synthetics and regular tech, which is never really explained. I would have thought that any suit-dwelling geth would also die, but you could be correct. Perhaps the clarification DLC will shed some light on this.

#18
Vixy

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Honestly I chose to upload the code. Tali and the Quarians died and it was horrible, but I didn't feel right stabbing Legion in the back like that.

#19
Sal86

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Dridengx wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Legion sure gets mad if you don't allow him to upload the reaper code, he even tries to kill you over it. interesting huh? once organics stand in their way, they would even kill their loyal friends.

Well, Wrex ultimately does the same thing if you don't help his race.


The difference is Wrex is fighting to save the extinction of his race. legion is fighting for freedom


Right, because organics have never been known to kill for freedom....

#20
lillitheris

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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Note: This only applies if you, like most, pick the Destroy ending. If you, for some reason, actually prefer one of the other two, this thread is not directed to you.

Anyway, what with Bioware saying the current endings will not be changed, this means that when we fired at that tube and destroyed the Reapers, we also killed all the geth. Now, since the geth are going to die anyway, it stands to reason that it is better to kill them on Rannoch rather than recruit them only for them to be wiped out by red space magic.


No, it doesn't, since you don't yet know what'll happen! Good metagaming arguments, though.

#21
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Apollo-XL5 wrote...

So i take it your happy with EDI dying too, since she too is synthetic life.

I'm not happy with EDI dying, but it's necessary if the Reapers are to be destroyed.

#22
comrade gando

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I'd never side with the geth because of..ahem.. won't go there.

#23
Apollo-XL5

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Well if what mr big pimpin believes is true then we should never have had the choice to save both races and then see the positives of that relationship blossom before the end.

I for one will always choose to save both, as both have a right to live.

#24
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Sparatus wrote...

I was more annoyed at Legion's jarring character change

Shepard-Commander, we reject the old machine's gifts. We will make our own future

Mass Effect 3

Shepard-Commander, WE WANT TO USE REAPER CODE! NOW!



Indeed. This is a good example at the ******-poor writing of Mass Effect 3 in general. People b*tch and moan about the endings, but the entire ME3 plot was mediocre to say the least. BioWare truly dissapointed me. First DA2 and now ME3... I think BioWare lost their touch and I think it's partly/mostly EA's fault.

#25
The Divine Avenger

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J-Sheridan wrote...

False.

The Geth were helping the Quarians to live in their suits or w/e. If you dont get them to live together then the Quarians get screwed more.

Additionally: Synthetics were the only ones affected by the Space Magic. Since the Geth uploaded themselves into some Quarians suits... either all Quarians in the galaxy are now going to die OR the Geth that are in those suits WILL survive and only need to be uploaded back into a suitable platform.

Result: Geth survived or both the Quarians AND Geth have been wiped out including anyone who has implants and the like.


how do you work that out when it is stated that ALL AI's will be destroyed so it doesn't matter if they've uploaded themselfs to the quarians suits or not. If the space magic can effect EDI thenit will effect the geth regardless of there current location.