149 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

chessplayer209 wrote...

Control ending saves those trillions equally effectively - and doesn't requiring sacrificing EDI or Geth allies. Shepard doesn't exactly die either - in a sense he becomes immortal and lives on forever within the Reapers as he controls them.

I went with Control and I'm quite satisfied. Shepard lives on forever within the Reapers, and can control them to prevent them from ever harming those he cares about. No sacrifices (organic or synthetic) required, and Shepard becomes immortalized in the process. In retrospect, I can't think of a better deal.

Immortality is a horrible fate. Also, the idea of a young Navy Officer wielding the entire power of the Reapers would frighten me. Shep could destroy any race he holds a grudge against.

[Sir DeLoria]

I kill the Geth out of principle on Rannoch.

[shodiswe]

Necanor wrote...

chessplayer209 wrote...

Control ending saves those trillions equally effectively - and doesn't requiring sacrificing EDI or Geth allies. Shepard doesn't exactly die either - in a sense he becomes immortal and lives on forever within the Reapers as he controls them.

I went with Control and I'm quite satisfied. Shepard lives on forever within the Reapers, and can control them to prevent them from ever harming those he cares about. No sacrifices (organic or synthetic) required, and Shepard becomes immortalized in the process. In retrospect, I can't think of a better deal.

Immortality is a horrible fate. Also, the idea of a young Navy Officer wielding the entire power of the Reapers would frighten me. Shep could destroy any race he holds a grudge against.

Like the Quarians for trying to kill him/her on that dreadnaught? Sounds like an idea!

[Sir DeLoria]

shodiswe wrote...

Necanor wrote...

chessplayer209 wrote...
Control ending saves those trillions equally effectively - and doesn't requiring sacrificing EDI or Geth allies. Shepard doesn't exactly die either - in a sense he becomes immortal and lives on forever within the Reapers as he controls them.

I went with Control and I'm quite satisfied. Shepard lives on forever within the Reapers, and can control them to prevent them from ever harming those he cares about. No sacrifices (organic or synthetic) required, and Shepard becomes immortalized in the process. In retrospect, I can't think of a better deal.

Immortality is a horrible fate. Also, the idea of a young Navy Officer wielding the entire power of the Reapers would frighten me. Shep could destroy any race he holds a grudge against.

Like the Quarians for trying to kill him/her on that dreadnaught? Sounds like an idea!

By that logic he should've exterminated the Geth immediately for trying to kill him throughout 3 games.

[AlexMBrennan]

Yes, because the ability to do X means he has to do X immediately.

[TheMyron]

I make peace every time because I need what's left of the might of the Geth, and don't murder real people, the Geth were helpful while it lasted, but with the Reapers destroyed, they are know totally expendable.

[KaiserShep]

Necanor wrote...

Immortality is a horrible fate. Also, the idea of a young Navy Officer wielding the entire power of the Reapers would frighten me. Shep could destroy any race he holds a grudge against.

I find the idea of immortality wholly abhorrent, but aside from that, just think of what you can get from the dead reapers. They are comprised of technology that greatly outstrips anything the other races possess. I'd like to think that reverse engineering what you can from their corpses could provide quite a lot of advancements without having to deal with their presence.

[Reorte]

chessplayer209 wrote...

Control ending saves those trillions equally effectively - and doesn't requiring sacrificing EDI or Geth allies. Shepard doesn't exactly die either - in a sense he becomes immortal and lives on forever within the Reapers as he controls them.

I went with Control and I'm quite satisfied. Shepard lives on forever within the Reapers, and can control them to prevent them from ever harming those he cares about. No sacrifices (organic or synthetic) required, and Shepard becomes immortalized in the process. In retrospect, I can't think of a better deal.

Control leaves all the Reapers around with an incredibly questionable promise that you'll be able to coerce them into doing whatever you want. If someone knocked on my door and said "I'm the king of burglars, just sign here and no burglar will ever break into your home even if you leave the doors and windows open all the time" I'd find it more plausible than Control actually working. The Reapers, which just happen to act as if they're in control of themselves, can be directly controlled to behave completely different to the way they've always been? And there just happens to be a machine in that part of the Citadel that can completely accurately scan anything down to the tiniest detail? And some alien hardware built for a different purpose long before humans even existed can accurately emulate a human being? If you believe all of that is likely and what it claims to be then I know this Nigerian gentleman with some money he needs moving who would like your help...

[KaiserShep]

Eh I can see why someone would pick control. It at least makes more sense than synthesis, since it involves Shepard's memories actively playing a role in the future, rather than leaving it up to hokey green voodoo.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 septembre 2013 - 10:30 .

[TheMyron]

My Maleshep has an ancestral bloodline to establish, so destroy is the only option.

[JasonShepard]

Reorte wrote...

Control leaves all the Reapers around with an incredibly questionable promise that you'll be able to coerce them into doing whatever you want.

As opposed to the incredibly questionable promise that they'll all die if you just shoot this tube?

@OP: (I know I'm replying about a year late)
I know that you addressed this to people that chose Destroy. I know that I chose Control, therefore this thread wasn't aimed at me. All that said... I completely agree. If you're going to pick Destroy, from a thematic, plotline standpoint it makes more sense to destroy the Geth on Rannoch.

@chessplayer209: Do you want to play a game of chess? I'm not that bad... Oh, sorry, got distracted by your username there...
If it isn't obvious enough from my sig - I agree with your point about Control saving trillions of lives without the sacrifice of Destroy. That said, Control still carries a weighty risk with regard to the Reapers still existing, and the potential for Shepard to not be the same person in a few hundred years. I prefer that risk to the straight up sacrifice of the geth, but I still like to acknowledge it.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 07 septembre 2013 - 02:21 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Dridengx wrote...

Legion doesn't die for their right to survive, he dies for their right to be fully AI.

Legion sure gets mad if you don't allow him to upload the reaper code, he even tries to kill you over it. interesting huh? once organics stand in their way, they would even kill their loyal friends.

Legion was corrupted by Reaper code before you even found it on the dreadnought.

Its actions contradict everything it stood for in Mass Effect 2.

The Geth never wanted to use Reaper tech/code to achieve their future. They wanted a future of their own making, not one the Reapers could give them. That's why the divided from the Heretics in the first place.

Legion also never waited for a consensus from his people before uploading the code, something he wouldn't even do at the Heretic station.

The Geth's desired future was to end their isolation from each other, bring all programs together and isolate themselves from everyone else. Not to become "true AI" and make nice with organics.

Chris L'Etoile who wrote Legion in ME2 even said, the Geth are not the pinnochio or terminator stereotypes of AI. They're like "If you don't accept us, we'll just go over here and not bother you. But we accept you"

The Reapers perverted Legion and the Geth's future. Killing them on Rannoch or Destroying them in the ending(they do make good cannon fodder) is a mercy.

[eye basher]

Everyone that helped you in the war with the reapers is an asset and the nature of any asset is that is expendeble.if that crappy AI had told me that using destroy would have killed everyone in the galaxy i still would have chosen it the reapers need to die.

[AlanC9]

Reorte wrote...
The Reapers, which just happen to act as if they're in control of themselves, can be directly controlled to behave completely different to the way they've always been?

I suppose this is where we part company. For me the Reapers have always seemed to be following some sort of plan that they didn't understand themselves. Sovereign's ridiculous speech made me think that there were  two possibilities -- either he was trying some sort of intimidation tactic by shoveling b.s. at Shepard, or he actually didn't know himself how or why the Reapers were created.

As for the general arguemnt, you've got exactly as much evidence for thinking that Control works as for thinking that Destroy works, and for knowing how to activate either.

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 septembre 2013 - 08:41 .

[AlanC9]

JasonShepard wrote...
.., Control still carries a weighty risk with regard to the Reapers still existing, and the potential for Shepard to not be the same person in a few hundred years. I prefer that risk to the straight up sacrifice of the geth, but I still like to acknowledge it.

I'd phrase that a bit differently. There's no particular reason to think that the Sheplyst will drift away from his initial state; the Catalyst didn't change his mind about anything in a billion years. The danger is inaccurate transcription in the first place. If the Sheplyst goes bad it'll go bad right away.

This makes the risk worse, since if it took a few hundred years for the Sheplyst to go bad the Reapers would become a much less overwhelming force over that time as the galaxy recovered and gained technology.

So Control is just another one of those Bio choices where you run a terrible risk because you're trying to save everything, and everything turns out OK. Some folks classify it as a Paragon choice for that reason.

[dorktainian]

we destroy them or they destroy us.... as far as legion and the geth are concerned, legion betrayed shep by keeping hold of the reaper code and then when shep sided with tali, tried to kill him. fwiw i'd side with tali every single time so....

but then again if you can save both, then save both.

your choice. thats the point.

[TheMyron]

Control ending still kills Shepard, it just gives birth to a new A.I. that carries Shepard's memories, but it itself acknowledges that it is NOT truly Shepard.

Can anyone trust this new A.I.?

[Ryzaki]

Nah I rather side with the Geth at rannoch than pick Destroy.

My shep doesn't know starbrat will give him three colors to choose from at the end and I really couldn't care less about the Quarians.

[MegaSovereign]

I never liked the Rannoch outcomes because it essentially used the issue of racism to mask the practical concerns of Legion wanting to upload Reaper code.

In my first playthrough, I stopped Legion because I thought it was a no brainer (in the ME fiction "better safe than sorry" is the usual tune with any Reaper tech). I didn't know that it would destroy the entire Geth race...In fact, I was hoping that I could talk down the Quarians and then let the Geth develop without Reaper influence.

And then again it came up at the end of ME3. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to stop the Reapers but why even introduce the pro-organic-racist angle? The EC made the dialogue more palatable ("targets all synthetic technology" rather than "you can kill all the Geth if you want!"), but the implication is still largely there.

Every major decision after the beautifully executed Genophage arc had seemed silly to me really. I want thought-provoking choices that help define what type of character I'm role-playing, though I could do without the forced dilemmas that ironically hurt role-playing more than they help.

[JasonShepard]

@The Grey Nayr:
There's a difference between surrendering your future to the Reapers by making a deal with them, and forcibly taking something from the Reapers in order to make your own future. The Reapers certainly didn't intend for the geth to acquire the upgrades while retaining free will...

In ME2, Legion does refer to accepting another's technological 'path' as blinding you to alternatives, but says nothing about taking that 'path' by force. Given the circumstances, it may also have deemed the upgrades as the best solution to a bad situation. (Geth without the upgrades, substantially weakened by the Quarians when they dyson cloud was destroyed, may have been deemed ineffective to assist against the Reapers, regardless of the Quarians were about to do.)

Also, even if the geth have been permanently changed by the Reapers, do they really deserve death for that? If they are new entities, then they should be judged based on what they are, not on what they once were. An analogy - if my brain was damaged and my personality was changed, I wouldn't want you to kill me for it, even if the person I once was wouldn't have agreed with the person I became.

@AlanC9:
I don't like to assume that the Shepard-AI will be running on the Catalyst's hardware. It might, but it could just as easily end up running on some part of the Crucible, or something else entirely. (Shared processors across the entire Reaper fleet perhaps?) So the Shepard-AI may or may not be similar to the Catalyst, and may or may not evolve with time. (I'd also contend that the Catalyst itself changed when it came to the conclusion that it had to start harvesting all life in the galaxy...)

That said, I do agree that the Shepard-AI is most likely to be dangerous immediately after conversion/creation, while it is still finding out what it is capable of and who/what it is.

@TheMyron:
You and I have very different ideas about continuity of persona, and about what the Shepard-AI's final dialogue 'acknowledges'.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 08 septembre 2013 - 01:00 .

[TheMyron]

@Jason, just listen to the way that A.I. talks, and you that it is not Shepard.

[Excella Gionne]

Hate the endings? Speak for yourself, I don't hate them. "Hate" is a strong word. I understand that it can be necessary to kill of the synthetics, but the Quarians are at fault just as much as the Geth are. And no one benefits without Reaper tech. The entire galaxy uses Reaper tech and still people say it's morally wrong for Geth to use Reaper tech.

[justafan]

johnnythao89 wrote...
The entire galaxy uses Reaper tech and still people say it's morally wrong for Geth to use Reaper tech.

When humans use reaper tech like the Geth planned to, we call them husks.

[KaiserShep]

justafan wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...
The entire galaxy uses Reaper tech and still people say it's morally wrong for Geth to use Reaper tech.

When humans use reaper tech like the Geth planned to, we call them husks.

That's not really the same thing at all. Human beings and other organic life forms being augmented with reaper tech results in a reduction in their faculties and loss of free will, whereas in the geth, the code is used to increase their effectiveness while keeping their free will intact.

[justafan]

KaiserShep wrote...

justafan wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...
The entire galaxy uses Reaper tech and still people say it's morally wrong for Geth to use Reaper tech.

When humans use reaper tech like the Geth planned to, we call them husks.

That's not really the same thing at all. Human beings and other organic life forms being augmented with reaper tech results in a reduction in their faculties and loss of free will, whereas in the geth, the code is used to increase their effectiveness while keeping their free will intact.

Oh sure, and if TIM wasn't a control freak, huskified Cerberus troopers would be the same thing and superior to normal humans.  The problem is the potential for reaper implants to go horribly wrong is close to 100%.

Modifié par justafan, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:18 .