529 réponses à ce sujet

[Transgirlgamer]

DarkShadow wrote...

Well, we're significant enough to make EA choose to pay their employees till summer to work on something that won't bring any money in. I'd say that's pretty significant.

Or it's a loss leader so that maybe some of the people who are being vocal about never paying for a bioware/ea game again will change their mind.  Yes, people not buying their game will hurt their profits.  I don't think it will be significantly so though.

But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.  I don't know how many people in total don't like the ending or how it compares to the number who do.  I also don't know what's goig on in the EA/BW meetings regarding ME3.  And I'm not likely to ever know.

[Crazed Weevil]

I would assume that looking at the thoughts and reactions that the fans have on your own company forum, which was set up specifically to get said feedback, would have had a stronger influence on what you should be thinking when concluding the story than just asking random people via the marketing department.

Unless of course you want to attract a larger or different market. But since the core gameplay didn't change other than the inclusion of MP, I would say that can't have had the influence.

I just wonder influenced them into doing this...
 

[lillitheris]

Transgirlgamer wrote...
Not everyone who likes the endings visits the forums.  In fact most likely, a larger percentage of the people who don't like them come to the forums, to have their voice heard.  People in general are more likely to complain than give praise.  It's just the way the world works.

Yeah, abusing statistics is silly.

Still, like I said elsewhere, the numbers that we're seeing are so consistently overwhelming, that they're statistically suggestive. I.e., we can draw some conclusions – one of which is that the majority of players did not like the ending, for one reason or another.

[MeldarthX]

DJBare wrote...

oblique9 wrote...
I think they were kidding when they said that. I have a feeling that was a troll.

Nah, I got the scene in my head, after the venue he walks out kicking himself muttering "I can't believe I said that"; and one of the others swiping him across the head "way to go numbskull"

That is exactly what happened.  Its one of those that as soon as it left his mouth it was a oh s**t moment.

It was lie but I don't think on purpose - they was under pressure and said something dumb.  

MP DLC confirmed - which means - ending DLC rumor could also be very much true - 

[Laurcus]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

KLGChaos wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Just under 61,000 people is significant?  Across the entire world?  Even when compared to the just the number of people that bought ME3 I'm not sure that counts as significant.

Not sure how significant we are, but I also know we're not alone. Not everyone who hates the ending visits the forums. At least three people I know at work really hated it and they don't come here.

As for the statement, I think my head just exploded. Into three colors.

Not everyone who likes the endings visits the forums.  In fact most likely, a larger percentage of the people who don't like them come to the forums, to have their voice heard.  People in general are more likely to complain than give praise.  It's just the way the world works.

That said, I don't like the endings, they don't fit the story in my opinion.  I'm just trying to be fair and balanced.

There's an official business statistic. For every person that complains, there are 26 other people that are unsatisfied that don't complain. Instead of complaining they will just stop doing business with you. 1+26=27. 27*61000=1647000.

1.64 Million is a significant amount.

Modifié par Laurcus, 07 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[pacientK]

tamperous wrote...

They're finished. EA will dismantle the brand. It's damaged goods. You will never see another product launched under the Bioware label where half the internet won't be sniping at their producers and project managers. Mocking them, painting all their pre-launch hype as lies.

Eventually some of the junior people will have had enough of receiving humiliation on behalf of their leadership and quit. They will spill the beans and the cycle will be complete.

And nothing of value will be lost apparently.

[DJBare]

My sentence also included "not representative"; but I'm smart enough to know that's good enough as sample data., but you don't even need that, just the overall tone across the internet, including major news outlets tells me that there are a lot of dissatisfied folk out there.

[Transgirlgamer]

lillitheris wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...
Not everyone who likes the endings visits the forums.  In fact most likely, a larger percentage of the people who don't like them come to the forums, to have their voice heard.  People in general are more likely to complain than give praise.  It's just the way the world works.

Yeah, abusing statistics is silly.

Still, like I said elsewhere, the numbers that we're seeing are so consistently overwhelming, that they're statistically suggestive. I.e., we can draw some conclusions – one of which is that the majority of players did not like the ending, for one reason or another.

I'm not saying this is the case, but it's possible, very slightly possible, that everyone who disliked the ending has let it be known here, or on the facebook group which would make it a minority.  It's also possible that all the people who like the ending has made their feelings known, which would make the people who dislike it the majority.

All we can accurately say is some people like the endings, some people dislike the endings and some people neither like or dislike the endings and the dislikes are more vocal than the likes and the neithers.

Even if Bioware or EA comissioned a survey that was emailed to everyone who has played Mass Effect 3, the numbers wouldn't be wholly accurate.  A lot of people just wouldn't respond.  Although they would get a closer to accurate set of numbers as they would know how many people responded.

[MeldarthX]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

DarkShadow wrote...

Well, we're significant enough to make EA choose to pay their employees till summer to work on something that won't bring any money in. I'd say that's pretty significant.

Or it's a loss leader so that maybe some of the people who are being vocal about never paying for a bioware/ea game again will change their mind.  Yes, people not buying their game will hurt their profits.  I don't think it will be significantly so though.

But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.  I don't know how many people in total don't like the ending or how it compares to the number who do.  I also don't know what's goig on in the EA/BW meetings regarding ME3.  And I'm not likely to ever know.

Its not just that - its combo of ME3 sales tanking bad after the first week because of word of mouth - you also have the portion of people that play ME - also play TOR - now when it start dropping their subs in protest - that's where its starting to hurt BW/EA - a lot.

[mrmarcus101]

Transgirlgamer wrote...



I'm not saying this is the case, but it's possible, very slightly possible, that everyone who disliked the ending has let it be known here, or on the facebook group which would make it a minority.  It's also possible that all the people who like the ending has made their feelings known, which would make the people who dislike it the majority.

All we can accurately say is some people like the endings, some people dislike the endings and some people neither like or dislike the endings and the dislikes are more vocal than the likes and the neithers.

Even if Bioware or EA comissioned a survey that was emailed to everyone who has played Mass Effect 3, the numbers wouldn't be wholly accurate.  A lot of people just wouldn't respond.  Although they would get a closer to accurate set of numbers as they would know how many people responded.

Not even taking into account the gamers who will just shrug, trade the game into the store and move on to the next title.

[DarkShadow]

Well, Laurcus mentioned it already, but I think I could provide the source:
http://www.customer-...atisfaction.htm

Personally, I'd say gamers are a little bit more vocal than other customers, but I still doesn't change the overall idea.

Modifié par DarkShadow, 07 avril 2012 - 11:12 .

[tybbiesniffer]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...
Not everyone who likes the endings visits the forums.  In fact most likely, a larger percentage of the people who don't like them come to the forums, to have their voice heard.  People in general are more likely to complain than give praise.  It's just the way the world works.

Yeah, abusing statistics is silly.

Still, like I said elsewhere, the numbers that we're seeing are so consistently overwhelming, that they're statistically suggestive. I.e., we can draw some conclusions – one of which is that the majority of players did not like the ending, for one reason or another.

I'm not saying this is the case, but it's possible, very slightly possible, that everyone who disliked the ending has let it be known here, or on the facebook group which would make it a minority.  It's also possible that all the people who like the ending has made their feelings known, which would make the people who dislike it the majority.

All we can accurately say is some people like the endings, some people dislike the endings and some people neither like or dislike the endings and the dislikes are more vocal than the likes and the neithers.

Even if Bioware or EA comissioned a survey that was emailed to everyone who has played Mass Effect 3, the numbers wouldn't be wholly accurate.  A lot of people just wouldn't respond.  Although they would get a closer to accurate set of numbers as they would know how many people responded.

This is exactly it.  We simply don't have enough data (or the right data) to draw any accurate conclusions.

[nitefyre410]

sfam wrote...

 Dear Bioware, you know there is nobody on this earth who believes that, right?  You developed a game with intense interaction between the characters, and previously had lots of cut scenes about what happened to everyone - an actual denouement so to speak, but now you're "Shocked! Shocked!" that people would have wanted a comprehensive ending to the third game?

All your pre-release stuff indicated more of a capstone ending to the series, and we don't get anything about any of the races we've worked, nor much of anything about our ship mates.

And you didn't know?


Again, nobody buys that.  Your statement at PAX today makes it sound far more likely that you actually thought you could get people to pay for a final ending as a DLC.  I hadn't really believed that until now.

Again - the whole star child thing is a travesty, but I would have expected some wierd defense of this, not, you were shocked that your fans, who you clearly understood perfectly up until the last 5 minutes, would have actually wanted to know what happened to all the things they had spent the past 30+ hours working on.

Care to try again? 

 

What  - Da fuc,   your kidding right? No your not they actually said that- and this is company that praised for its   great creative talent...  

[NickelToe]

DarkShadow wrote...

Well, Laurcus mentioned it already, but I think I could provide the source:
http://www.customer-...atisfaction.htm

Personally, I'd say gamers are a little bit more vocal than other customers, but I still doesn't change the overall idea.

Wish EA would read this and take it to heart.  That was pretty good info if it is accurate.

[MeldarthX]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...
Not everyone who likes the endings visits the forums.  In fact most likely, a larger percentage of the people who don't like them come to the forums, to have their voice heard.  People in general are more likely to complain than give praise.  It's just the way the world works.

Yeah, abusing statistics is silly.

Still, like I said elsewhere, the numbers that we're seeing are so consistently overwhelming, that they're statistically suggestive. I.e., we can draw some conclusions – one of which is that the majority of players did not like the ending, for one reason or another.

I'm not saying this is the case, but it's possible, very slightly possible, that everyone who disliked the ending has let it be known here, or on the facebook group which would make it a minority.  It's also possible that all the people who like the ending has made their feelings known, which would make the people who dislike it the majority.

All we can accurately say is some people like the endings, some people dislike the endings and some people neither like or dislike the endings and the dislikes are more vocal than the likes and the neithers.

Even if Bioware or EA comissioned a survey that was emailed to everyone who has played Mass Effect 3, the numbers wouldn't be wholly accurate.  A lot of people just wouldn't respond.  Although they would get a closer to accurate set of numbers as they would know how many people responded.

Lacorus already answered you -

I've posted this about this from my dad's point of view - he was CFO - Ex VP - which means he was number 2 in a fortune 500 company before he retired a couple years ago.

He said without a doubt - if you got 61k being vocal about something then the problem is huge - as in millions of fans also feeling the same way.  

Even if my original theory is correct - which I think it is - BW isn't dumb - they did the ending this way on purpose to polarise the fans - then would release a more full ending - or expanded ending later on....

They can't ever admit that now

[Irishkev]

rrtda wrote...

Are them dates accurate as most of them are done just 2-3 weeks before the game was released some a week before.

I can forgive 5-6 month statments things change but that close you have they have a final product ready at that point testing and getting ready to ship. Heck some of them quotes where made 2 days before US got game WTF!!!!


I hate the last mission and ending I never denied that it just felt rushed but most of them quotes blow my mind espically about the one where end game mission you will see your descions take affect all I saw was a lame corridor that I walked down to reach the missles.

Modifié par Irishkev, 07 avril 2012 - 11:19 .

[Kilshrek]

I found those words to be extremely disingenuous.

But then again, there probably was no one who sat down at the ending and asked the critical question during development;

"That's it?"

[CrazyRah]

Oh Bioware.. oh Bioware you really don't know squat anymore

[MOIST N FLUFFY]

I wonder if they'll provide more context, or clarity, on what he meant by "we didn't know..." I guess they thought that it was enough, but who could think that?

[Transgirlgamer]

Kilshrek wrote...

I found those words to be extremely disingenuous.

But then again, there probably was no one who sat down at the ending and asked the critical question during development;

"That's it?"

If I understand what I've read here correctly, most people in the writing team didn't know the specifics of the ending. 

I admit though that I don't know if the rumors I have heard are true.  They have a certain ring of truth to me just by how the end comes out of nowhere.

Judging from the story the minimum they needed to know was that 1, It took place on the citadel/crucible, 2, that T.I.M. was indoctrinated
and 3, that the citadel had been moved to be in orbit around earth.  That, as far as I can tell, is the absolute minimum that was needed to be told to give us the story we have up Shepard travels up to the citadel.

Modifié par Transgirlgamer, 07 avril 2012 - 11:35 .

[Mendelevosa]

 

[Ziggeh]

Eh? I'm not sure I understand. You're saying they should have known there was a demand for a better ending before anyone had finished it?

That implies either clarvoyance on our part or that they themselves thought the ending was crap. Now I'll agree that it's wierd that the second isn't true, but given they made it, that shouldn't come as a suprise.

[Transgirlgamer]

Ziggeh wrote...

Eh? I'm not sure I understand. You're saying they should have known there was a demand for a better ending before anyone had finished it?

That implies either clarvoyance on our part or that they themselves thought the ending was crap. Now I'll agree that it's wierd that the second isn't true, but given they made it, that shouldn't come as a suprise.

I think that most people have been working under the assumption that Bioware knew the ending wasn't great when they sent the game out and they didn't have time to do anything about it or that it was deliberate so they could release something else.  It takes time to come to terms with something like that not being true.

Modifié par Transgirlgamer, 07 avril 2012 - 11:39 .

[Ziggeh]

DarkShadow wrote...

Well, Laurcus mentioned it already, but I think I could provide the source:
http://www.customer-...atisfaction.htm

Personally, I'd say gamers are a little bit more vocal than other customers, but I still doesn't change the overall idea.

Those are inapplicable to this situation. They don't account for the anonymity or casual manner of the complaints process.

[lillitheris]

tybbiesniffer wrote...

This is exactly it.  We simply don't have enough data (or the right data) to draw any accurate conclusions.

We do. Like I said, the numbers are so consistent that even a nonrepresentative sample suggests that at a minimum >50% were dissatisfied.

I don't really see a point in arguing about this unless someone starts talking about the ‘silent majority’ again, though.