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[bpzrn]

onlycore6007 wrote...

didn't know we wanted a sane and conclusive ending that actually brings any closure to the story *blink blink* mmmmkay that's a good solid reason to NEVER buy a Bioware product ever again I almost prefer the "labour of love" or "artistic vision" platitudes they were throwing out earlier to that stupidity... didn't they play test the darn ending? can they really be so surprised at the uproar? REALLY?

[FatalX7.0]

DJBare wrote...

pika9519 wrote...

Here's the transcript from the Kotaku liveblog:

KCox: "Why was that content not in the game at launch?" The dev team stands by what we releasei nt he core product, wer'e very proud of it (mild applause from audience) "It was important though, for us to listen to the community, and community feedback ovbviously didn't come until the game came out" "couldn't have included in game because we didn't know there was huge demand for it

They could not know there would be a demand for the player to have closure on the squad and galaxy, so exactly what were people posting on this forum over the course of two games(ME1&ME2)
They obviously listened to the feedback regarding Garrus and Tali.

http://social.biowar.../index/970146/1

This thread was made two years ago, along with this post.

"Exactly.  There are two endings I wouldn't like for ME 3.  One being a
random GOD LIKE force that saves the Galaxy or another being that to
defeat the Reapers, everyone has to become a primitivst and destroy the
Relays, Citadel, etc.  Both would make me pretty unhappy as those
endings have been done to death."

"That would really ring of the Babylon 5 plot. The Reapers as Shadows
and the beings of light as Vorlons. It would be a bit deus ex machina
though to all of a sudden bring in another ancient race of super
powerful beings that now save the galaxy..."

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 07 avril 2012 - 02:46 .

[aksoileau]

That whole Q/A was full of fluff and pointless misdirecting questions.

[Cobra's_back]

jimbo32 wrote...

For all those who are wondering, it was Mike Gamble who came up with the preposterous  "we didn't know there was such a huge demand" quote. That's him on the far right in the below vid. Patrick Weekes is on the far left, but unfortunately there weren't any questions (that I saw) about the thing on the PA forums.

What astounds me almost as much as Gamble's statement is the fanboy crowd. Where did they recruit these people? How much did they pay them?

http://youtu.be/Sq7083558a4

(Lame panel, but pretty cool that the face model for Samara was in the crowd in full Samara cosplay)

These are the people that may not really care about the story. There is a fairly large group that only play for the game play. The story is just in the background.

Seriously, EA could be chasing the market looking for MP, gameplay and action. It probably cost less to produce an action game.

[bpzrn]

The ending stinks, BW rolled out a very bad ending that make no sense, full of plot holes, and worst of all was so poorly written it did a 360 on just about everything ME1 and ME2?

Who ever came up with this ending should be fired period.

[NinjaLadyHinata]

 I'm just speechless. Bioware I'm just gonna let Buddy the Elf take over for me...

[Captain Arty]

I am 100% jaded.

I expect this sort of response out of them now, and am shocked when they something that makes sense or is useful

[Cobra's_back]

Lonsecia wrote...

I'm still trying to work out why what seems to be not insubstantial additions to the MP are being touted when most people (as in all of them pretty much) will have bought the game for SP as a priority. Seems odd they can put development time into something like this, supposedly make it free and feel it's logical when there are a large group of player who either haven't bothered with MP, or have completely lost interest in the game as a whole. If they can add playable content FOR FREE, then make it single-player.

I also find it sad how optimistic they are that the ending will turn out okay in the fan's collective eyes once the extended cut is released. I know a lot of people will be, but there'll likely be just as many who will not find it satisfying.

MP spells more money and better profit margins.

[iSpider-Man]

NinjaLadyHinata wrote...

 I'm just speechless. Bioware I'm just gonna let Buddy the Elf take over for me...

[TUHD]

jimbo32 wrote...

For all those who are wondering, it was Mike Gamble who came up with the preposterous  "we didn't know there was such a huge demand" quote.

/facepalms
The Associate Producer who 'didn't know there was such a huge demand' for a logical, understandable ending? Wow. Just wow.

Kalms wrote...

Zenyattaa wrote...

sfam wrote...

warrior256 wrote...

When
I think about this more, I think that Bioware is stuck between two
options. They can either admit that they were lying, which would make
them look really bad, or they could feign ignorence which would make
them look like idiots. They chose the latter apparantly....

Agreed.  And its a bad place to be.

But
admitting to a mistake or in this case a lie would actually win back
fan support. Their attitude, the sheer arrogance displayed throughout
this entire cluster**** is beyond my ability to understand.

It's
actually quite straightforward. If a labor of love, something you spent
years making, is suddenly and abruptly attacked on quality, of all
things, you're bound to get defensive about it. I know I would. It's
irrational, because it doesn't do them any favors. But is it
understandable? I'd say yes.

And as a company employee, it's outright stupid. Are you a sole writer who just writes for their own fun and in the hope it pleases the masses? Go ahead and be so uptight about it. But Bioware isn't a lone writer who writes for their own pleasure, they're an company who creates games to pleasure people and to get sales from it.
If you're uptight when you get criticism about your game, you shouldn't be working at an mass-entertainment company. That's just it. And that's the part which still keeps amazing me: the uptight reaction from Bioware.

@Topic:
*Glares* *Still can't believe it* Really, especially how stupid from Mike Gamble of all.

[Jvolikas]

warrior256 wrote...

Seriously? Wow... just... just wow. They actually thought that most of us wouldn't care about having a good ending to a series that we have invested hundreds of hours into? I didn't think it was possible to be that stupid Bioware. I really didn't. You knew that we loved the story, the universe, and the characters yet you thought we would be okay with you not wrapping any of that up. It boggles my mind.

Mine too.  It truly amazes me how Bioware actually thought they did a good job with this ending...

[Nobrandminda]

That's pretty facepalm worthy.

You didn't think we'd want to know what happened to the characters in a character driven story? Really?

[Grasich]

This would make a great case study of how to NOT do PR. It's like every statement they make is designed to make their community (not even going to say fans anymore at this point) hate them more. It's actually pretty impressive.

[GBJ13]

I think he probably should clarify his remarks. It's not hard to misspeak.

But, man, every time I read it, I just think they're bs-ing.

[Nuke1967]

They will never admit anything. Corporations are like politicians.."Deny,Deny,Deny" Any product that comes out that the public has a problem with most of the time they company will issues statements like "We believe "The Product" is a great, we stand behind it100%". Even if the games ending was put together at the last moment to get the game finished, unless they have some sort of internal leak again, you will never hear that.Because admiting that even a little will in the companies mind might effect future sales, not only of DLC but in other games. The only thing that might and I say might big time, effect the games ending for a possible change would be that any paid DLC they bring out goes straight into the toilet with sales. Then that might shift the wind where they come out with something like "We will always stand by the original ending 100 %, but decided to reimagine the ending as alternate outcomes." but not for free but as paid DLC.

Modifié par Nuke1967, 07 avril 2012 - 03:16 .

[Kilshrek]

Ziggeh wrote...

I mean his games since maybe dungeon keeper have been a litany of overextension, mismanagement and poorly concieved ideas. He doesn't make games, he makes grand ideas that developement teams fail to articulate.

I am perhaps guilty of not reading any of his promises regarding DK especially, since I would have been a bit too young and more relevantly too poor to buy gaming mags at the time. I don't know of any promises that he made, but the games themselves were quite satisfying. Maybe B&W (especially 2) didn't deliver as much as it had the potential to, but as with all of his games, they're loosely narrated, with a lot of power given to the player to decide on what they do. Of course, Fable isn't exactly like this, and the narrative is quite linear, but I'm not getting the examples you're giving still.

I'm not trying to be dense, I'm just not getting what you're talking about. I know all about the infamous trees grow while the game goes on promise though, what else was poorly conceived?

[JELLAQTP]

Bioware wants to change his fanbase. From RPG they are moving toward action games, the problem is that they did it without warning and changed two IP's on the move. Seems that they believed that fans where so loyal that were going to change too and in some moment lost contact with their real fanbase and the one they want to have.

They will get their new fanbase eventually, there are many here that like their games now, but the change is hurting them.

[sfam]

Marta Rio II wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

I think that most people have been working under the assumption that Bioware knew the ending wasn't great when they sent the game out and they didn't have time to do anything about it or that it was deliberate so they could release something else.  It takes time to come to terms with something like that not being true.

I can understand them not thinking it was ace. I mean, it's not, so it makes them a bit daft, or too close to it, or something. But deliberate? What kind of plan is that? Surely theres a massive gaping flaw in that? You'd have to be a dribbling moron to think that would work.

My guess?  They probably thought: "Well, this ending isn't super great, but games have had bad endings before and people just grumbled a bit.  The rest of the games' awesomness will make up for it."  They didn't expect a full on fan rage with an organized campaign that got 50,000+ likes on facebook, raised $80k for charity, and led to coverage of the controversy by every major/minor gaming/geek news site for several weeks.

I mean, Casey Hudson thought we'd all love planet scanning (seriously, there's video of him saying this)...so yeah, their predictions for ran reactions seem to be hit or miss.

Their statement at PAX?  Just backwards logic trying to spin the situation so they don't look completely incompetent. 

Perhaps they misgudged how much people truly cared about the series - how much people actually cared about the characters in the game.  This is pretty unusual to be this wedded to the characters, or a series for that matter.  Maybe Casey decided he was really in charge of what happened.  But here's the thing - ince you've gotten people totally wedded to a series, and give people the flexibility to make the story theirs, they really do "own" the story in a real way.  At that point, radical shifts in narrative no longer go over very well.

[phat0817]

I thought I misread that I had to read it again. How could they have not known what a bunch of bs..

[Motherlander]

It's actually quite insulting idf they said that. They are basically saying that they don't think the people who play THEIR game have much intelligence , imagination or depth.

So much for companies understanding their customers.

[Raanz]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/970146/1

This thread was made two years ago, along with this post.

"Exactly.  There are two endings I wouldn't like for ME 3.  One being a
random GOD LIKE force that saves the Galaxy or another being that to
defeat the Reapers, everyone has to become a primitivst and destroy the
Relays, Citadel, etc.  Both would make me pretty unhappy as those
endings have been done to death."

"That would really ring of the Babylon 5 plot. The Reapers as Shadows
and the beings of light as Vorlons. It would be a bit deus ex machina
though to all of a sudden bring in another ancient race of super
powerful beings that now save the galaxy..."

How prophetic.  I applaud this poster.

[Xellith]

Bioware might say they stand by their work. That just means they dont understand the difference between good work and bad work. YOU DID BAD BIOWARE. VERY BAD. NAUGHTY!

*hits on nose with newspaper*

[drawnacrol]

They just keep digging their hole deeper.

[Averdi]

Stuff like this makes me wonder if they simply don't understand why the Mass Effect franchise achieved the success it did.

[sfam]

Kilshrek wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...
If I understand what I've read here correctly, most people in the writing team didn't know the specifics of the ending. 

I admit though that I don't know if the rumors I have heard are true.  They have a certain ring of truth to me just by how the end comes out of nowhere.

Judging from the story the minimum they needed to know was that 1, It took place on the citadel/crucible, 2, that T.I.M. was indoctrinated
and 3, that the citadel had been moved to be in orbit around earth.  That, as far as I can tell, is the absolute minimum that was needed to be told to give us the story we have up Shepard travels up to the citadel.

It's not so much the writers, as the people who were recruited to play the game, focus testers or whatever they call them these days.

That nobody played through the ending, and sat up, looked at a dev/writer, and say  "Is that the end to the story then?", is asking me to believe that pigs are a reliable way to fly across continents as well.

TOTALLY agree.  There is no way they don't have reems of reports from testers and others saying in effect, "You know your customers will hate the ending - you know that, right?"