159 réponses à ce sujet

[john-in-france]

Actually I'd like tips on NOT being carried. Yesterday I played MP for the first time on Bronze. It was painful being a level 1 engineer again.

I was lucky, some more experienced players kept checking up on me (Wadnu and Schoonbuch (spelling?) Kudos to you both). Yes I died, twice.

I found a sniper style perch and concentrated on power and fire support for my stronger team mates. Using the drone to distract enemies and powers to thin them down, even took down a phantom trying to flank one of them. I managed to hack and revive once. I still felt bad. For the level that I was, I felt that I'd tried my best to help the team. I came out of it with more assists than kills, but that is fine with me.

I'm not sure how they felt...

I did not have a mic on, but will go and find one in my box of old PC stuff.

[free17]

What irks me is when I'm trying to set up biotic explosions, but you keep shooting enemies before I can detonate them and then you kick me presumably because I had the lowest score.

[DarthSliver]

Well me and my friends mostly play among ourselves most of the time but since we live in different timezones and sometimes we have to play with some random people we usually just make sure they have a mic. Only time we usually let them get away without a mic is on Bronze or if they are actually a high N7 lvl with a high char. We always try to finish for the credits so if we are doing bad that time we mainly try to finish the objective and see if maybe we can pass to the next round if not than oh well. But its very simple we just prefer someone that can communicate back and if they dont have a mic we go for showing actual teamwork and thats for when we go with a random person. Half the time when it comes to get a random with a mic we end up adding them to our friends list to play with later lol.

This whole carrying crap is BS because like many people have said you can have low points and still be doing great and points dont even matter. Everyone gets the same exp by the end of the game. Points thing is just there for looks, it doesnt really matter. As long as everyone is working as a team even a low lvl character can do fine on silver and if they have friends willing to pull their low lvl char through gold with heavy risk than all the better, you get more exp anyways. But when I go Gold I always play with a char I can do well with so I am not the weaklink.

[Atheosis]

As long as I'm not having to constantly revive teammates because they are too stupid to use cover or think they can lone wolf it, I don't generally get too bent out of shape about my teammates, even if they aren't that good. Though I rarely carry teams on Gold, so much as solidly contribute (70-100K is my normal point range). I'm definitely not good enough to solo Gold or anything. Now when I'm leveling a character on Bronze or Silver? Yeah I carry those teams all the time. People who play on Bronze and Silver seem to just be terrible players in general.

[Besetment]

The whole points thing is irrelevant and I wish people would stop using it to measure a player.

If you have 2x AAs, one warping and one throwing, then the one warping is going to get all the biotic explosions, most of the kills and therefore most of the points. The one throwing will get assists and nothing from enemies killed from biotic explosion AoE (despite triggering them).

Then there are the classes whose strength is in perform a role that isn't really about getting points, but allowing others on the team to rack em up - i.e. half blasting/nova cancelling Vanguards and Decoy Engineers. I mean screw the points really. If you have an all biotic team, the simple fact is you just don't work very well without a competant Vanguard taking all the heat, and it has nothing to do with points.

And then there are the people that rack em up but ruin it for everyone else in the process - the guys that follow your infiltrator on his solo 4/4 disarm run, thus drawing enemies to him (the exact opposite of what you want to do). The guys that are yelling at you to revive them after they got themselves into a bad position, which means you have to get into the same bad position so they can rack em up some more and you can die reviving again. The guys that only go where the kills are, even if it means leaving his teammates with exposed flanks or vulnerable to attack from behind.

Ultimately its a team game and the greatest benefits (exp and credits over time) are attained with highly organised teamplay and coordination. At various times you will have to carry your squaddies and they will have to carry you. I don't care as long as everyone makes an effort to play like a team, not like 4 individuals competing on score.

Modifié par Besetment, 07 avril 2012 - 09:27 .

[Jebel Krong]

On gold its not really feasible to carry low level players purely because objective rounds split you up anyway if you're playing properly. however i do it all the time on silver or below, especially for people just starting out, if you want to grow the multiplayer base you've got to make sure people are welcomed and have fun - it is a team game.

[john-in-france]

Atheosis wrote...

 Now when I'm leveling a character on Bronze or Silver? Yeah I carry those teams all the time. People who play on Bronze and Silver seem to just be terrible players in general.

That may be because so many of us are just playing MP so that our SP game can have the 4000EMS score for a better ending...Shepard lives.

Also many people seem to be playing MP with an SP mindset.

I admit my first MP games sucked and I was saved by more experienced players. I felt guilty about it. I moved on. I shall improve and try to do better next time.

[Besetment]

Jebel Krong wrote...
especially for people just starting out, if you want to grow the multiplayer base you've got to make sure people are welcomed and have fun - it is a team game.

This is really important and I'm glad you mentioned it. People are the life blood of any multiplayer game, and the quality of the people coming into the game is formed by those that already play it. So if you show them its about the scores, chest beating bravado and trash talking on the mic, then thats the game they will learn to play.

Edit: ACK! Spoiler that for the love of god. I haven't finished the Single Player yet.

Modifié par Besetment, 07 avril 2012 - 09:32 .

[Atheosis]

Besetment wrote...

The whole points thing is irrelevant and I wish people would stop using it to measure a player.

If you have 2x AAs, one warping and one throwing, then the one warping is going to get all the biotic explosions, most of the kills and therefore most of the points. The one throwing will get assists and nothing from enemies killed from biotic explosion AoE (despite triggering them).

Then there are the classes whose strength is in perform a role that isn't really about getting points, but allowing others on the team to rack em up - i.e. half blasting/nova cancelling Vanguards and Decoy Engineers. I mean screw the points really. If you have an all biotic team, the simple fact is you just don't work very well without a competant Vanguard taking all the heat, and it has nothing to do with points.

And then there are the people that rack em up but ruin it for everyone else in the process - the guys that follow your infiltrator on his solo 4/4 disarm run, thus drawing enemies to him (the exact opposite of what you want to do). The guys that are yelling at you to revive them after they got themselves into a bad position, which means you have to get into the same bad position so they can rack em up some more and you can die reviving again. The guys that only go where the kills are, even if it means leaving his teammates with exposed flanks or vulnerable to attack from behind.

Ultimately its a team game and the greatest benefits (exp and credits over time) are attained with highly organised teamplay and coordination. At various times you will have to carry your squaddies and they will have to carry you. I don't care as long as everyone makes an effort to play like a team, not like 4 individuals competing on score.

Points are generally correlative to player skill and strength of character build.  They tend to point to who is doing best.  That said, while not meaningless, they certainly don't tell the whole story.  I think most players get that.

[Gornok]

I don't mind either way, as long as I meet the objective which is to win the game. Sometimes you will be the one carrying the team, sometimes you may not, but if you play the game full out, then it all balances.

[MindSweeper14]

I don't see it as a problem at all. Low level characters (and certain classes) just aren't able to generate the XP like higher level characters. So long as they're trying, then it's just part of the co-op experience! Those that just hide and live off other peoples' work though- I am not cool with that...

[GodlessPaladin]

Atheosis wrote...

Besetment wrote...

The whole points thing is irrelevant and I wish people would stop using it to measure a player.

If you have 2x AAs, one warping and one throwing, then the one warping is going to get all the biotic explosions, most of the kills and therefore most of the points. The one throwing will get assists and nothing from enemies killed from biotic explosion AoE (despite triggering them).

Then there are the classes whose strength is in perform a role that isn't really about getting points, but allowing others on the team to rack em up - i.e. half blasting/nova cancelling Vanguards and Decoy Engineers. I mean screw the points really. If you have an all biotic team, the simple fact is you just don't work very well without a competant Vanguard taking all the heat, and it has nothing to do with points.

And then there are the people that rack em up but ruin it for everyone else in the process - the guys that follow your infiltrator on his solo 4/4 disarm run, thus drawing enemies to him (the exact opposite of what you want to do). The guys that are yelling at you to revive them after they got themselves into a bad position, which means you have to get into the same bad position so they can rack em up some more and you can die reviving again. The guys that only go where the kills are, even if it means leaving his teammates with exposed flanks or vulnerable to attack from behind.

Ultimately its a team game and the greatest benefits (exp and credits over time) are attained with highly organised teamplay and coordination. At various times you will have to carry your squaddies and they will have to carry you. I don't care as long as everyone makes an effort to play like a team, not like 4 individuals competing on score.

Points are generally correlative to player skill and strength of character build.

  They really don't.  They are at best ballpark estimates, and at worst misleading (for example, if guys are alternating warp/throw, the one using throw will get a lower score, despite his part being equally meaningful.  Also, revives and objectives don't get you much score).  However, while it is true that comparing high scores to see who was "best" is stupid, if someone has <30,000 points by wave 10 (and they didn't join late), something is seriously wrong.  The only way you can get such a low score on Gold is if you're basically doing nothing at all.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 09:47 .

[Chromako]

If you are AFK the whole time (and don't at least warn us that it's only temporary due to something out of your control- so we don't rez you until you come back) or just being lazy, then I do mind.

It seems rather uncommon on Silver, though. If someone is trying but is still being carried, That's okay. We still completed the mission so they couldn't have gotten in the way too much, and they might be a noob or trying out a new setup. Noobs that are trying to learn are perfectly cool. We all were one.

Carrying I don't mind. Leaching, that's different. *kick*

[john-in-france]

AFK?

[Chromako]

Away From Keyboard. It means that you aren't at the computer or at least aren't playing the game at all

[john-in-france]

Besetment wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
especially for people just starting out, if you want to grow the multiplayer base you've got to make sure people are welcomed and have fun - it is a team game.

This is really important and I'm glad you mentioned it. People are the life blood of any multiplayer game, and the quality of the people coming into the game is formed by those that already play it. So if you show them its about the scores, chest beating bravado and trash talking on the mic, then thats the game they will learn to play.

Edit: ACK! Spoiler that for the love of god. I haven't finished the Single Player yet.

I apologise for the mild spoiler. Mea Culpa.

[john-in-france]

Chromako wrote...

Away From Keyboard. It means that you aren't at the computer or at least aren't playing the game at all

Thank you

[Cuddieee]

Because it's exhausting, more consumables are spent, it takes longer/we run the risk of wasting a bunch of time. I play Gold almost exclusively now but there is always someone who doesn't know what they're doing in the match and--more often than not--gets us wiped.

I'm all for having a good time, but I don't know anyone who has fun constantly dying on Gold. They want the credits and XP.

[Besetment]

Atheosis wrote...
Points are generally correlative to player skill and strength of character build.  They tend to point to who is doing best.  That said, while not meaningless, they certainly don't tell the whole story.  I think most players get that.

No they dont. 2 identical Asari Adepts of similar skill, one warping, one throwing. The one warping will get most of the points. This is just the way the system allocates points in explosion setups involving more than 1 person. It absolutely does not mean that the Warp Adept is better than the Throw Adept so points not telling the whole story is an understatement at best.

Biotic explosion setups are a good case in point, particularly for teams designed to take on Gold Reapers. Adepts will nearly always rank highly in those games if allowed to do their job. If they are not allowed to do their job it is because they are getting shot at, their biotic spam is being overridden by tech burst setups, their explosion targets are getting shot down etc.

So theres a certain irony in the sense that maximizing Adept kill potential for big scores necessitates having a teammate in a support role taking all the fire. It just doesn't work any other way. They carry you, so you can carry them. Resenting teammates who fail to carry you when required is not exclusive to this game - you get this everywhere in team games where particants are randomly lumped together, and part of that is to do with the fact that you don't know the people you are depending on and you don't know how they are depending on you. Always when teams fail in these circumstances, it is due to poor organisation and communication.

I know that some people don't have a mic or don't like talking on the mic, but its so important for good team coordination and for understanding where people are at. If you actually talk to people, you find that many are quite reasonable and in the absense of a plan, are quite willing to go along with yours, as long as you don't dictate terms like Uncle Joe. Sometimes I just don't want to talk or to plan, I just want to pug you know? When that happens I just accept that whatever happens, happens. If I let the team down I mean gee, I'm sorry guys. I'm not at peak form right now. If someone else fails to carry us through to wave 11 then its all cool. I'm sure it aint personal. 

Modifié par Besetment, 07 avril 2012 - 10:11 .

[ThePowerOfHAT]

I don't mind "carrying" other players at all, provided that they stay reasonably focused on objectives when they come up and don't just die all the time. Pretty much, if I know that they're staying alive and getting points, I know they're providing some benefit to me and the rest of my team, and I'm happy.

[zhk3r]

> Games drag on forever. 30 minute matches is boring.
> The players being "carried" stay in the lobby forever, like leechers.
> Being the only player with a decent score itches my brain and makes me angry.

Sometimes, it can be fun to carry low levels through Gold. If I'm in the lobby with three friends, I don't mind a N7 20, level 20 Soldier being part of the team. But when I play a public game and end the game with 250.000 points, while the second place has got 50-70k - I get annoyed. It means basically I'm the only one who *did* anything during the 11 waves of enemies. And I know "its not about score" - But that score shows how much you contributed - and when one player has 2 times the total of the 3 remaining players, the top scoring might as well have done it alone.

EDIT: And don't tell me that the other players focus on the objectives, 'cause most of the time they don't. I'm sick of having to be a Vanguard-Engineer when there are two Infiltrators on the team. How do you end up with 9000 points at Wave 11 as a Infiltrator, when you actively play the game?!.. Urgh.

Modifié par zhk3r, 07 avril 2012 - 10:24 .

[tvih]

For me, it really depends.

Like just now I had a Silver match on my Krogan Soldier, where I had about 60% higher score compared to the guy who was second in score. I was having fun, I didn't mind. But then a Phantom snuck up on me out of nowhere in wave 9 and impaled me with that ridiculous toothpick. Seeing as I was effectively carrying the team, obviously they died shortly after. Thus, sucky credits for that match. And I'm trying to save up for the new Asari and Krogan characters, so time is money

So, in short I don't mind carrying as long as we still get at least wave 10 objective done, but if we fail at that because people are playing in a difficulty level beyond their own skill level, then it kinda sucks. I'm not "godlike" enough to solo this stuff, unfortunately.

Modifié par tvih, 07 avril 2012 - 10:24 .

[Besetment]

The score does not show how much you contributed. It shows what you were allowed to contribute to the scoreboard.

For example, anybody can rack up a monstrous score with an Adept vs any enemy, but particularly reapers. This is true. The question is: have you been allowed to do so?

Because I've played public games where I've been left on my own, self detonating my own biotics (slowly) and I'm getting shot to pieces. I'm hiding behind cover most of the time to regen shields and my whole team is getting overwhelmed. I have to check that my teammates aren't getting flanked or backstabbed which is time not spent detonating biotics but sure, someone has got to do it?

And then there are times when I play private games with a half blast/nova cancel Vanguard and tandem biotics with everyone on mics, where you literally don't need to use cover at all. Your Vanguard is basically a mobile wall/stagger machine in front of you and your whole team just moves around the map blowing stuff up at an incredible rate.

At that point I have to concede that you do nothing in this game by yourself and the only way to prove otherwise is to solo Gold by yourself, which from a time/reward perspective can hardly be worth the effort, even if it is possible.

Even the most useless teammate is still a decoy to draw fire as long as they are alive. But the most irksome thing is when people really do believe they are an island, as if their squadmates are irrelevant because their contribution is not seen and is not weighted by the game in reported player data. You don't get far in this game without someone covering your back.

Modifié par Besetment, 07 avril 2012 - 10:46 .

[FFLB]

I don't mind carrying others during a match. Sometimes you're carrying, other times you may be the one being carried. Besides, it helps to keep the matches fun and dynamic. If I just wanted credits, I would go and farm White with everyone else who has that method down and be just as scrutinizing.

I would probably feel differently if I couldn't carry a match or if it was a huge strain on me, but since I don't stress it, it just becomes another way to enjoy the game. Besides, I like to think that other players enjoy watching too. If there was an option to randomly spectate, I would probably do that every once in a while to see how other matches play out.

[GodlessPaladin]

Besetment wrote...

The score does not show how much you contributed. It shows what you were allowed to contribute to the scoreboard.

For example, anybody can rack up a monstrous score with an Adept vs any enemy, but particularly reapers. This is true. The question is: have you been allowed to do so?

Because I've played public games where I've been left on my own, self detonating my own biotics (slowly) and I'm getting shot to pieces. I'm hiding behind cover most of the time to regen shields and my whole team is getting overwhelmed. I have to check that my teammates aren't getting flanked or backstabbed which is time not spent detonating biotics but sure, someone has got to do it?

And then there are times when I play private games with a half blast/nova cancel Vanguard and tandem biotics with everyone on mics, where you literally don't need to use cover at all. Your Vanguard is basically a mobile wall/stagger machine in front of you and your whole team just moves around the map blowing stuff up at an incredible rate.

At that point I have to concede that you do nothing in this game by yourself and the only way to prove otherwise is to solo Gold by yourself. Even the most useless teammate is still a decoy to draw fire as long as they are alive.

The "most useless teammate" is not merely a null sum... he affects enemy movement and spawns in counterproductive ways (this can actually be a big one.  Being able to manipulate the patterns of the hoard is important when soloing, and when you're carrying you're mostly soloing), gets the guy doing the device activation hit and staggerred, interrupts your combos while doing no real damage, takes up inconvenient spaces and can hinder ally movement or ability to take cover et cetera, breaks phantoms out of stasis prematurely (while not really hurting them), lure other players to their deaths when they go down  foolishly and demand revives, and is disruptive or just plain rude in communication (or in some cases even provide misleading information).  I've had games with four players that felt harder to me than my solo gold runs.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 10:42 .