191 réponses à ce sujet

[Ridwan]

I really resent this "DA2 was dumbed down for the masses" comments people like you spit out. Well you know what pal? **** you too. I enjoyed the gameplay for Dragon Age 2, problem?

I thought what people hated was the fact that DA2 kept using the same maps over and over again, but nooo... elitist like you make it hard to support any movement.

Modifié par M25105, 07 avril 2012 - 12:43 .

[wryterra]

Sparse wrote...

If it is well written (as you are saying it is) then it won't be boring, will it. It will too big of course, but there was no reason why it couldn't be '3 years', the decade was just a headline term.

Yes, it will. The real time sleeping sections would be awful. The real time waking up, washing yourself, using the toilet, eating meals, walking from place to place, buying groceries, tidying, taking out the trash sections would be boring.

Enormous amounts of life are dull and narrative skips to the pertinent bits, that's how it works. If you want to play a three year game that takes three years to play, good for you. I'm happy enough with things changing to represent the passage of time. 

Sparse wrote...
Apart from the fact that nobody important aged, nobody changed position and the city didn't change,.....  They just added a plot device in the second act (third if you count the intro as a full act) - the Qunari - and then stuck a few Templars in the palace at the end.

No one important apart from the Viscount, the Arishock, Avaline, Hawke, Varric... we clearly played different games.

[Elvwood]

Reapers wait until civilizations Reach their peak and then wipes them out
They continue this cycle over and over again
and you can't spell rEApers without EA

[simo2003]

finalcabbage wrote...

Good gravy people! Mass Effect 3 is still an awesome game despite problems with the ending. Part of the reason it is so awesome is some of the elements taken directly from Dragon Age 2. Specifically squad interaction making the characters feel less like they only exist to talk to Shepard. Bioware is still an awesome company and even their worst is still better than most other companies at their best.

Er, what? Squad interaction happened in the Baldur's Gate series, which predates DA2 by what, 10 years?

[simo2003]

M25105 wrote...

I really resent this "DA2 was dumbed down for the masses" comments people like you spit out. Well you know what pal? **** you too. I enjoyed the gameplay for Dragon Age 2, problem?

I thought what people hated was the fact that DA2 kept using the same maps over and over again, but nooo... elitist like you make it hard to support any movement.

DA2 was dumbed down. Compare the combat. Now, some may prefer the more 'actiony' combat, but it was certainly a lot simpler to play compared to the strategy-based combat of DA:O, which in my view was a strength of the original.

[Phaedros]

For me the end began with DA2.

Specifically when Brent Knowles left. Just after EA entered the picture. Surprise, surprise..

[OhoniX]

DA2 was dumbed down. Compare the combat. Now, some may prefer the more 'actiony' combat, but it was certainly a lot simpler to play compared to the strategy-based combat of DA:O, which in my view was a strength of the original.

"dumbed down" is a pejorative though, it's meant to insult people that enjoy it for what it is. Was DAO a game that required more tactical play? Definitely. If you didn't pause the action every other second and hand position each unit for maximum effect then even on normal difficulty you'd get slaughtered. Fine. That was that game. DA2 didn't require that, which did make it more difficult to fail completely, especially on the lower difficulty levels, but it wasn't "dumber", it was just "simpler," and sometimes simple can be good too. It wasn't a tactics game, it was an action game, and some people liked that just fine.

For those that didn't like it as much, that's a fair opinion to hold, and feel free to say "I did not enjoy the combat in DA2 as much as in DAO," but to insult those who did enjoy it for what it was, or to claim that Bioware was somehow "at fault" for making the combat in DA2 appeal to a different bubble in the great Venn diagram of "gamers" than the bubble that contained DAO, that just goes too far.

I played through DAO, I beat it, but I played through DA2 two and a half times and enjoyed every minute of it. It was a different game, and it definitely had some flaws, but the combat system was NOT a "flaw", it was just a system that was different than DAO's, and some DAO fans could not accept that.

[cavs25]

I doubt it, but I hope so.
Its not just about the ending. The way they treated us through this whole thing has been pathetic.

[Ridwan]

simo2003 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I really resent this "DA2 was dumbed down for the masses" comments people like you spit out. Well you know what pal? **** you too. I enjoyed the gameplay for Dragon Age 2, problem?

I thought what people hated was the fact that DA2 kept using the same maps over and over again, but nooo... elitist like you make it hard to support any movement.

DA2 was dumbed down. Compare the combat. Now, some may prefer the more 'actiony' combat, but it was certainly a lot simpler to play compared to the strategy-based combat of DA:O, which in my view was a strength of the original.

It was not DUMBED DOWN. It was simplified. "Dumbed down for the masse"s is a comment that pisses me off to no end, basically it tells me that people like you and the thread starter are arrogant douches who wants their games to be contained for a small niche crowd and how dare a dev develop a game that other people might enjoy too.

Simple works, simple sells, simple is enjoyable.

And for the record, I've completed Dragon Age: Origins three times and while I prefer Dragon Age: Origins, I thought the overall gameplay for Dragon Age 2 was far better since it kept more simply and yet still retained the paused and tactics.

Seriously, get off your high horse.

Modifié par M25105, 07 avril 2012 - 02:16 .

[tonnactus]

OhoniX wrote...

"dumbed down" is a pejorative though, it's meant to insult people that enjoy it for what it is. Was DAO a game that required more tactical play? Definitely. If you didn't pause the action every other second and hand position each unit for maximum effect then even on normal difficulty you'd get slaughtered.

I must have played a different game then. As an arcane warrior,there wasnt any pausing needed at the end of the game.And not even really in the beginning as a mage. A good rule set was more then enough. Something that is also needed in Dragon Age 2 on higher difficulties or your team is getting wiped against enemies like assassins and arcane horrors.

[Turkeysock]

I am starting to believe that Bioware is starting to sink. Slowly, but steadily. I'd like to point out Interplay, they got bought out by Titus in 2001, and although they were in a slump when Titus bought them out, it became abundantly clear that Interplay was on a tight leash. Titus cancelled Interplays FO3, Van Buran in favor of making FO:Brotherhood of Steel (Which was horrible).

Bioware is going down this slippery slope, slower then Interplay, but they certainly are going down this slope.

[finalcabbage]

simo2003 wrote...

finalcabbage wrote...

Good gravy people! Mass Effect 3 is still an awesome game despite problems with the ending. Part of the reason it is so awesome is some of the elements taken directly from Dragon Age 2. Specifically squad interaction making the characters feel less like they only exist to talk to Shepard. Bioware is still an awesome company and even their worst is still better than most other companies at their best.

Er, what? Squad interaction happened in the Baldur's Gate series, which predates DA2 by what, 10 years?

You mean squad banter that happens within the group while moving with the main character?  That's not what I was talking about.  I meant showing up to a certain location and walking in on the middle of a conversation that lets you know these people have lives outside doing missions/quests.  This happens in the Hanged Man/Normandy for the most part.  It's really awesome character building on a level not experienced with lesser gaming companies.

[OhoniX]

I am starting to believe that Bioware is starting to sink. Slowly, but steadily. I'd like to point out Interplay, they got bought out by Titus in 2001, and although they were in a slump when Titus bought them out, it became abundantly clear that Interplay was on a tight leash. Titus cancelled Interplays FO3, Van Buran in favor of making FO:Brotherhood of Steel (Which was horrible).

Bioware is going down this slippery slope, slower then Interplay, but they certainly are going down this slope.

Has there been a single verified instance of EA stepping in and preventing Bioware from doing what they wanted, or is it all down to innuendo that anything that Bioware does that some people don't like, it must be EA's fault? I mean, I'm not defending EA, I just don't see a reason to believe that the things that people don't like about ME3 couldn't have been entirely Bioware's call.

[wesr]

I think it's the start of the end if they aren't careful. I do bet more than a few people are sending out resumes and shopping around.

[upsettingshorts]

otis0310 wrote...

As we all know DA2 was heavily modified per EAs instructions.

[Citation Needed]

otis0310 wrote... 


First it was "dumbed down to appeal to a broader fanbas"

[Citation Needed]

otis0310 wrote... 

then it was pushed out the door for an "Easy Paycheck"

[Citation Needed]

otis0310 wrote... 

The combat was nothing more than button mashing, lacking any of the strategic combat of its predecssor.

You played on Casual, didn't you?  

otis0310 wrote... 

The plot was nonsensical, each chapter played as a seperate story, only at the end did the underlying plot finally emerge and then it pushed to a hasty conclusion.

You didn't pay attention, did you?  Dragon Age 2's plot wasn't perfect, but at least the story had themes.  Origins was Generic Fantasy Story.

otis0310 wrote... 

There was also a complete lack of memorable characters, no one can compare a companion in DA2 to either Alistair or Morrigan successfully.  

Fenris aside, I'd say all of the companions are as memorable as Alistair or Morrigan.  I don't see what's so fantastically amazing about either of them that they somehow stand out as particularly amazing BioWare characters.  

otis0310 wrote... 

Finally there is the lack of any real choice at all in the story

Define "real choice."

otis0310 wrote... 

combined with an absurd rehashing of the same maps.  

I'll give ya that one.

otis0310 wrote... 

DA2 is a very poor game, the rapidly diminishing sales told us this, regardless of the review scores.

It was also made in 18 months on what was clearly a smaller budget - see previous complaint - and likely turned a profit.

otis0310 wrote... 

In short, is this the end of Bioware?

I highly doubt it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 avril 2012 - 04:51 .

[upsettingshorts]

OhoniX wrote...

Has there been a single verified instance of EA stepping in and preventing Bioware from doing what they wanted

No.

OhoniX wrote...

or is it all down to innuendo that anything that Bioware does that some people don't like, it must be EA's fault?

Yes

[FBI-Azzurri]

Told you before, will say it again: "Artistic Vision" will be the death of BioWare.

[AwesomeDudex64]

otis0310 wrote...

I think Bethesda is already picking up a lot of Bioware's fan base.

They certainly caught me.

Anyways, it depends on how well DA3 sells. If it's bad well I can see Bioware become yet another studio destroyed by EA.

[Andy Roark]

Yes. The all-out PR push Bioware has engaged in since the multiple disasters of the Mass Effect 3 release has been an all out "success". They have maintained the "artistic integrity" of their vision (rushing and shoving out the door a product with a nonsense ending so they could attempt a cash in on multiplayer and then not admit it despite all evidence the contrary). They keep lecturing their fans to "stay constructive" and "be polite" while also seeding stories in the gaming sites about the horrible, horrible way their fans are acting - mostly all driven out of some wild homophobia or sense of entitlement. And as the days drag on they are getting away with it because lots of people just don't care enough to argue anymore.

A couple of times in my marriage I have told my wife "this isn't an argument you actually want to win". She has always wisely listened and we have a great marriage as a result.

Bioware didn't have the wisdom to realize that when you chose to go to war with your fans - and then grudging give them some of what they want while also still viewing them as the enemy - that you actually don't win.

Because they don't come back.

[SolidisusSnake1]

DA2, shot BioWare.
SWTOR, placed them on life support.
ME3, finished the job.
DA3, will probably be the nail in the coffin.

[upsettingshorts]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

DA2, shot BioWare.  

 
[Citation Needed] 

SolidisusSnake1 wrote... 

SWTOR, placed them on life support.

 
[Citation Needed] 

SolidisusSnake1 wrote... 

ME3, finished the job.

 
[Citation Needed] 

SolidisusSnake1 wrote... 

DA3, will probably be the nail in the coffin.

[Citation Needed] 


Reality:  The internet is like, super mad.  That much is certain.  Nobody here has any ****ing clue beyond that.  Yet they confidently state "truths" as if their own feelings make it so.

Plus, if anything shot BioWare it was DA:O.  No one intentionally takes 7 years to release a game, then they got bought out by EA... hmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why BioWare went that route...

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Ahh… I love threads like this. "My personal opinions are now irrefutable facts!" I enjoyed DA2, though not as much as Origins and I absolutely LOVED Mass Effect 3 up until the end. Using your opinion as proof of something is as logically flawed as starchild.

Modifié par Clumsy Astronaut, 08 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[Tovanus]

This guy's video had a pretty good take on it (it's by the "Understated Nerdrage" guy):

At the end of the day, the worst decisions for ME 3 (everything about the ending) came from Bioware's writers. But the decisions that weren't quite the worst, but probably detrimental - I think those arise somewhat from the EA culture. For instance, I imagine if they didn't have the pressure to get ME 3 out sooner, they probably would have enjoyed taking the time to add many more scenes to show "war assets" mattering.

[sistersafetypin]

otis0310 wrote...

I think Bethesda is already picking up a lot of Bioware's fan base.

This. DA2 was.... mediocre. I enjoyed it, but it is riddled with flaws. And after that, many were willing to write Bioware off. I wasn't. I told everyone who would listen that Bioware was BRILLIANT at learning from their mistakes and thus ME3 would simply be... The best possible game ever.

I was wrong. This is a steady decline we're wittnessing 

[ShepnTali]

otis0310 wrote...

I think Bethesda is already picking up a lot of Bioware's fan base.

Well, Bethesda is lower tier still when it comes to storytelling (generally) and fun combat.