191 réponses à ce sujet

[ahandsomeshark]

Arppis wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I hope not.

I love Bioware games. Even when there has been few mistakes in them. I still love to play them and see the story and characters. I hope they will make many more games in the future.

Mistakes are made, so they learn from them. Adapt. Failure doesn't have to mean an end, but a new start.

the problem is nothing that's happened since DA:2 suggests they've learned from the mistakes. Or even think they've made any mistakes.

So there has been many recycled enviroments? I didn't see that many. Nor did I really see enemies constantly spawning out of nowhere. They have learned from it.

All the N7 missions were recycled MP maps. And the citadel fetch quests were worse than recycled enviroments. ME3 is also even more linear.

[Axialbloom]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

I said learn from their mistakes. As in, learning that rushing a game leads to a subpar title.

 

But they could have written a totally different ending in the same amount of time for the same amount of resources.  They just wrote a crappy one that they thought people would like but turned out to be totally wrong about.  In what way would additional time have improved the endings?

sistersafetypin wrote... 

 But, sure... Keep looking for things to find issue with.

 

Your wild generalizations and categorical assumptions are doing the job for me.

They are right, you are wrong/  Sorry.

[otis0310]

McAllyster wrote...

 Beginning of the end?
Based on my marketing expertise I think it is possible:http://social.biowar.../index/11141940

This article is the big thing isn't it.

People hate Tali's face being photshopped, amateur work that is insulting, a college level artist could do better.  Yet they ignore it. People hate the end, they stay quiet and then give a press release about how they respect the artsitic quality of the team and will basically ignore the customer's requests, but make the ending easier to understand.  After that, to heck with you we will do nothing.

This is coming after the biggest software fiasco of all time, DA2 registeration problems.

For those who do not remember , Vware stated on the forums "Have you sold your soul to the EA Devil?" and as a result, was banned from his account, and could not activate DA2 since he could not log in.

What was Stanley Woo's response. We have the right to suspend your account and prevent you from playing a game that you payed for.  To prove it, read our Terms of Sevice, sections 9 and  11.  In it we state we can ban your account and that these bans can effect your game and DLC. " Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow."  "End of Line".  Not saying Vware was not a jerk, because he seemed like one, but this does not excuse Bioware's behaviour.

Not to mention Mike Laidlaw saying we are not going back to what made DA:O great because "DA:O was broken." Right in the middle of a thread about poeople saying they wanted some more DA:O elements back.

Combine this behaviour with those two lack luster games and how long do you think even the most loyal Bioware customer will tolerate it?

[McAllyster]

otis0310 wrote...

This article is the big thing isn't it.

People hate Tali's face being photshopped, amateur work that is insulting, a college level artist could do better.  Yet they ignore it. People hate the end, they stay quiet and then give a press release about how they respect the artsitic quality of the team and will basically ignore the customer's requests, but make the ending easier to understand.  After that, to heck with you we will do nothing.

This is coming after the biggest software fiasco of all time, DA2 registeration problems.

For those who do not remember , Vware stated on the forums "Have you sold your soul to the EA Devil?" and as a result, was banned from his account, and could not activate DA2 since he could not log in.

What was Stanley Woo's response. We have the right to suspend your account and prevent you from playing a game that you payed for.  To prove it, read our Terms of Sevice, sections 9 and  11.  In it we state we can ban your account and that these bans can effect your game and DLC. " Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow."  "End of Line".  Not saying Vware was not a jerk, because he seemed like one, but this does not excuse Bioware's behaviour.

Not to mention Mike Laidlaw saying we are not going back to what made DA:O great because "DA:O was broken." Right in the middle of a thread about poeople saying they wanted some more DA:O elements back.

Combine this behaviour with those two lack luster games and how long do you think even the most loyal Bioware customer will tolerate it?

OMG.

A forum ban should not affect the ability to play a PAID game. If this story is true... I can't find words...

Forum ban and closing topics however a very bad move in the world of social media. Of course users have to accept some basic rules - but beyond that they have the right to express their opinions. Sadly I see a trend on BSN: instead of answer the questions moderators closing topics. This is also an answer, means: "We don't care about your opinion."

[Dridengx]

Hey look the same people trying to assume they mean something because they bought DA2 and ME3 that somehow EA/Bioware will somehow go out of business lol. EA/Bioware is not going anywhere especially because some people didn't like an ending, sorry.

Modifié par Dridengx, 08 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[otis0310]

Pfor wrote...

[
Now you see, if you'd taken the time to actually think about your argument and construct it properly, I'd probably be paying more attention right now. Unfortunately it mostly consists of supposition and hyperbole. And you don't back up a word of it. 

You wish a good argument?  Here is one Pfor.

Look at the general attitude on the forums about the ending for ME3.  Look at how the forums have basically responded after the press release last week about the DLC.  I think we can both agree the response is negative.

Look at the general attitude on the forums about the quality of DA2. Now while I admit that Bioware said it is addressing those concerns, it has still left a bitter taste in the mouth of customers. A taste made even more bitter by the end of ME3, and the aforementioned press release.

Look at his post by McAllyster, stating the problems involved in alienating a fan base.
http://social.biowar.../index/11141940

This post made by vWare concerning why he could not activate DA2, and Stanley Woo's response at the end of the page.

http://social.biowar...59941/1#6460241

Now I believe I made my point.  We have 2 games that the fans did not like at all,  and were very vocal about on the forums.  Some are upset to the point where some people are doubting if they will buy another Bioware game.

Combine this with concept of losing your fanbase, and Stanley Woo's response.  We now have a company that is not just delivering what many consider lack luster games, but are also actively attacking there fanbase. I believe you could find more examples of this abuse if you looked closer.

Finally most of these problems came AFTER their acquisition by EA. So my theory of EA interference does carry some weight due to that.

If you combine the facts, Bioware may be losing their fanbase very very quickly, and in the end, the company will surely suffer, perhaps to the point of bankruptcy.

[Dridengx]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

All the N7 missions were recycled MP maps.

MP are n7 missions, and this is how a lot of games do it even COD lol.

And did you understand why? MP is about a team holding the area for the alliance. Hence why it's Horde/wave mode in MP, trying to "hold the line" and keep the area under alliance control after shepard retakes them, he even radios in for the team to come in and hold it in single player

Modifié par Dridengx, 08 avril 2012 - 02:53 .

[Phaedros]

[quote]otis0310 wrote...

[quote]McAllyster wrote...

 Beginning of the end?


Not to mention Mike Laidlaw saying we are not going back to what made DA:O great because "DA:O was broken." Right in the middle of a thread about poeople saying they wanted some more DA:O elements back.

... how long do you think even the most loyal Bioware customer will tolerate it?
[/quote]


DA2 was the beginning of the end...  

[Asharad Hett]

M25105 wrote...
I thought what people hated was the fact that DA2 kept using the same maps over and over again, but nooo... elitist like you make it hard to support any movement.

Nope.  The game sucked so much that I never finished it.  I played so little, that I didn't realize the maps were recycled until it was mentioned here in the past few weeks.   The terrain was ugly.  The characters were bad.  The missions were bad.  The story was boring.  The game was bad.  Period.

[Torrible]

otis0310 wrote...

Pfor wrote...

[
Now you see, if you'd taken the time to actually think about your argument and construct it properly, I'd probably be paying more attention right now. Unfortunately it mostly consists of supposition and hyperbole. And you don't back up a word of it. 

You wish a good argument?  Here is one Pfor.

Look at the general attitude on the forums about the ending for ME3.  Look at how the forums have basically responded after the press release last week about the DLC.  I think we can both agree the response is negative.

Look at the general attitude on the forums about the quality of DA2. Now while I admit that Bioware said it is addressing those concerns, it has still left a bitter taste in the mouth of customers. A taste made even more bitter by the end of ME3, and the aforementioned press release.

Look at his post by McAllyster, stating the problems involved in alienating a fan base.
http://social.biowar.../index/11141940

This post made by vWare concerning why he could not activate DA2, and Stanley Woo's response at the end of the page.

http://social.biowar...59941/1#6460241

Now I believe I made my point.  We have 2 games that the fans did not like at all,  and were very vocal about on the forums.  Some are upset to the point where some people are doubting if they will buy another Bioware game.

Combine this with concept of losing your fanbase, and Stanley Woo's response.  We now have a company that is not just delivering what many consider lack luster games, but are also actively attacking there fanbase. I believe you could find more examples of this abuse if you looked closer.

Finally most of these problems came AFTER their acquisition by EA. So my theory of EA interference does carry some weight due to that.

If you combine the facts, Bioware may be losing their fanbase very very quickly, and in the end, the company will surely suffer, perhaps to the point of bankruptcy.

Until we see the figures of the next game, all you can do is speculate. What you are doing is called wishful theorizing.

Modifié par Torrible, 08 avril 2012 - 03:06 .

[Alkasyn]

wryterra wrote...

Sparse wrote...

wryterra wrote...
Dragon Age 2 told a story, with a beginning, middle and end that spanned decades.

Only because they told you it spanned ten years. In-game it didn't span decades because most of those decades were 'as time passed'. You had 3 acts which followed directly on from one another in a slightly forced way.

I agree that DA2 was OK storywise, but the whole 'spanned a decade' was just marketing nonsense.

You know I'd rather they did it this way than made a game that made me live out decades in real time. Most of history is boring. Yes, give me only the good bits. 

What a preposterous complaint. 

We saw how things had changed, how people had changed, how Kirkwall had changed, so yes the story spanned a decade. 

And don't 'agree' with me that DA2 was 'alright' because then you're putting words in my mouth. 

If you want to agree with me then you're agreeing that DA2's story was leagues ahead of DA:O's story. That's my position for you to agree with or disagree with.

If by "how Kirkwall has changed" you mean that it remained exactly the same through 10 years, then yea, we can agree on that. 

The "10 year-long" story was jsut a marketing slogan. The whoel plot could ahve happened in a couple of weeks.

[Dark_Caduceus]

otis0310 wrote...

I think Bethesda is already picking up a lot of Bioware's fan base.

A real shame Skyrim's story line doesn't even compare to the ME universe.

[WhiteKnyght]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

I think Bethesda is already picking up a lot of Bioware's fan base.

A real shame Skyrim's story line doesn't even compare to the ME universe.

A real shame Skyrim's patches cause more bugs than they fix too.

Bioware's programmers and developers know how to make their games function well.

[otis0310]

I agree Dark Cadicus.

Modifié par otis0310, 08 avril 2012 - 03:23 .

[Njald]

bennyjammin79 wrote...

FFS get some new material.

Don't worry. DLC is on the way and then Bioware will have a chance to ref*uck up once more and you will be able to read all the New wonderful comments.

[blacqout]

otis0310 wrote...

DA2 is a very poor game, the rapidly diminishing sales told us this, regardless of the review scores.

How? All those people not buying it don't seem to be the best ones to judge the game's merit.

It's also interesting that you say you didn't understand the game's story.

[blacqout]

Alkasyn wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Sparse wrote...

wryterra wrote...
Dragon Age 2 told a story, with a beginning, middle and end that spanned decades.

Only because they told you it spanned ten years. In-game it didn't span decades because most of those decades were 'as time passed'. You had 3 acts which followed directly on from one another in a slightly forced way.

I agree that DA2 was OK storywise, but the whole 'spanned a decade' was just marketing nonsense.

You know I'd rather they did it this way than made a game that made me live out decades in real time. Most of history is boring. Yes, give me only the good bits. 

What a preposterous complaint. 

We saw how things had changed, how people had changed, how Kirkwall had changed, so yes the story spanned a decade. 

And don't 'agree' with me that DA2 was 'alright' because then you're putting words in my mouth. 

If you want to agree with me then you're agreeing that DA2's story was leagues ahead of DA:O's story. That's my position for you to agree with or disagree with.

If by "how Kirkwall has changed" you mean that it remained exactly the same through 10 years, then yea, we can agree on that. 

The "10 year-long" story was jsut a marketing slogan. The whoel plot could ahve happened in a couple of weeks.

No, that's not an accurate statement at all. The plot was heavily reliant on the pressure building between the various factions. You had to see that the Qunari were relatively peacefull for three years, patiently watching Kirkwall, before the Arishok decides enough is enough.

You had to see how the Mages were being opressed and how the Templars didn't have a whole lot of choice.

If you set the game over the course of a couple of weeks, you'd lose so much of what is intrinsic to the narrative.

[avatar0]

toolfan9284 wrote...

Considering they cancelled the last DA2 xpac recently...about the same time as ME3 was released/rage started...IDK...I think the ship is sinking and BW is trying to plug the leaks. Haven't really heard anything from EA...maybe EA is letting BW take the hit?

The ship is sinking, and Bioware is trying to plug the leaks by cursing at them.
I hope Bioware realizes its mistake and fix the endings for us.
I would gladly set sails (ok, maybe more like hesitantly) with it again.
But If we are going to be stuck with broken endings like we are now, and if there's any justice in the world, then it would only be fitting that Bioware goes down for it.

I mean, children have to learn that you can't get away with screwing with people's hearts and lives.

Modifié par avatar0, 08 avril 2012 - 03:45 .

[Horacio Zhao]

I hope not. BW is still my favorite group, please don't die.

[JeffKaos]

I don't think BioWares going anywhere any time soon but you can definately see EA's ugly fingerprints all over everthing BioWare has recently released. While I haven't played SWTOR I've heard that a lot of my friends have already stopped playing with most of them saying that it's basically a single-player game with no exploration. My opinion is that where they were once a company that produced high quality, story driven RPG's with a loyal fanbase, thanks to EA BioWare is just going to be another company that specialises in RPG's. Some will be good, some will be bad.

[Asharad Hett]

blacqout wrote...

otis0310 wrote...

DA2 is a very poor game, the rapidly diminishing sales told us this, regardless of the review scores.

How? All those people not buying it don't seem to be the best ones to judge the game's merit.

It's also interesting that you say you didn't understand the game's story.

I bought it, on the basis that DA:O was good.  I didn't understand DA2's story.  The game didn't interest me in the least.  It was visually boring, and the story wasn't there.

Of all the games I have played since 1984, this was the first game I could not finish.  I did try, several times.  But it's horrid.

Modifié par Asharad Hett, 08 avril 2012 - 03:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

otis0310 wrote...

If you read further down I state myself that we cannot prove this.  But the fanbase in general (although not in the entirety) believes it regardless of that fact.  (Check the forums for verification if you really need it)

If the fanbase believes it, it must be true.

otis0310 wrote... 

No it is not.  It is obivous that the gameplay is not meant for just the niche market of strategic combat fans, but also trying to appeal to the market of action combat fans.  The fact that they are trying to appeal to this new market, as well as keep the old market means that by definition they are trying to appeal to a "Broader Fanbase".  Therefore the latter half of the statement is verified by DA2s own gameplay.

As for the first half, being "dumbed down". That is an opinion. Opinions do not need citations by definition.

By far the biggest differences between DAO combat and DA2 combat were the removal of the detached camera and new stylized animations.  Also, friendly fire was moved exclusively to Nightmare.

Apart from the introduction of some new combat elements that were not present in DAO (Fortitude, melee AOE, cross-class combos) pretty much everything else was the same.

DA2 combat gameplay experience suffered primarly from poor encounter design where every fight seemed like the same ambush by mooks.  

So... did we even play the same game?

otis0310 wrote... 

I'll give you that Bioware has never offiicially stated whether or not DA2 was rushed, nor would they.  However, many in the fan base believe that it feels rushed.  

If the fanbase believes it, it must be true. 

otis0310 wrote... 

otis0310 wrote...  
The combat was nothing more than button mashing, lacking any of the strategic combat of its predecssor.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You played on Casual, didn't you?  

No, but did you ever need to take control of another character to set an enemy up for a combo.  Like have your mage freeze them so the warrior can shatter them?  Or could you basically let the AI go on autopilot without worrying about tactics or combinations. 

If you did not set up spell combos or other tactics in you would lose most fights in DA:O. Conversely, in DA2, you never even thought about it because you could let the AI go on autopilot.

Were some fights in DA2 hard? Heck yes, very hard.  But do not confuse a hard fight with a strategic one. There is a load of difference.

Dude are you serious?  Dragon Age 2 added more cross class combos.   If you played on higher difficulties, especially Nightmare, these were crucial.  

Encounters required more micromanagement if friendly fire was on because your 2HW could murder half your team in one swing.  Of course, if you spec'd your team right you could faceroll every encounter, but this was equally true of Origins as well, or solo Nightmare Arcane Warrior playthroughs wouldn't even be possible, yet they are.

Honestly.  Did you play on Casual?  Did you even play Dragon Age 2?  I find it hard to believe anyone could honestly play the game and not notice that they added these things.

otis0310 wrote... 

A "real choice" is one that gives the player the feeling that ther decisions mattered.  However, I will admit that what that is solely a matter of opinion.

You're talking about setting plot flags for things we'll never get to see again and having it told to us in an epilogue card, aren't ya?

otis0310 wrote... 

As for those who are upset about my use of the phrase "dumbed down", I apologize for a poor use of words. "Overly simplified" might be correct.  To me  "dumbed down" is basically over simplification that crosses a line.  In my opinion it has crossed the line between over simplification and dumbed down.  I believe I have a right to that opinion, as each of you has right to theirs.

But an objective evaluation of the gameplay elements of DA2 proves they weren't simplified.  

What was actually simplified in Dragon Age 2?  The GUI/overall presentation.

What was stylized in Dragon Age 2 ?  The animations and art style.

What was poorly implemented in Dragon Age 2?  The encounter design.

The reason I'm turning this into a DA2 thread is because you're citing DA2 being a failure for a bunch of reasons I think are specious, and then trying to use that and the fact an otherwise highly regarded game's crappy ending means that an entire company is going to go under.

The argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.  Do you or I know if DA2 turned a profit?  How about ME3?  We have no idea.  This is key information, without it, even speculating is totally pointless.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[JELLAQTP]

Bioware is adapting to a massive audience that EA brings. It´s normal they have to do a lot of changes that end with new fans arriving and some old fans leaving. What makes this problems is changing it´s target in the middle of the franchises.

What is hard to predict is how this change will work.

[upsettingshorts]

JeffKaos wrote...

I don't think BioWares going anywhere any time soon but you can definately see EA's ugly fingerprints all over everthing BioWare has recently released. While I haven't played SWTOR I've heard that a lot of my friends have already stopped playing with most of them saying that it's basically a single-player game with no exploration. My opinion is that where they were once a company that produced high quality, story driven RPG's with a loyal fanbase, thanks to EA BioWare is just going to be another company that specialises in RPG's. Some will be good, some will be bad.

Forbes:  World of Warcraft Admits Subscribers are Leaving for The Old Republic

Axialbloom wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

I said learn from their mistakes. As in, learning that rushing a game leads to a subpar title.

 

But they could have written a totally different ending in the same amount of time for the same amount of resources.  They just wrote a crappy one that they thought people would like but turned out to be totally wrong about.  In what way would additional time have improved the endings?

sistersafetypin wrote... 

 But, sure... Keep looking for things to find issue with.

 

Your wild generalizations and categorical assumptions are doing the job for me.

They are right, you are wrong/  Sorry.

Sorry, but that's not how arguments work.

If someone makes stuff up, I say they made things up, and then you come in and say you've made up the same things that doesn't make the two of you correct.  Their position makes no sense because it takes a huge leap of logic then pretends it's a small one.