39 réponses à ce sujet

[Cultist]

In Dragon Age 2 injuries was more of a nuisance that you can clear by nearby Party Flag or your home. Origins did little better - you could clean injuries by camp.
In my opinion injuries should be more important and punishing fopr players.
Make 'em be removable only via injury kits or doctor NPCs. In Dragon Age 2 you could get a ton of injuries and ignore them, ignore companions falling, ignore tactical approach and with Spirit Healers spec - ignore everything,
By making injury treatment cost something for players we'll force people to think and plan before and during battles.

[Pasquale1234]

I rather liked the specific injury types that nerfed specific attributes in DAO.  In addition to that, they could also do a reduction in max health, speed, and/or defense when a character is injured.

I don't remember ever seeing a doctor NPC anywhere in Thedas, but it could be interesting.

A few other possibilities:
- A mage-operated clinic (like Anders').
- A First Aid skill that could be available to different classes in different ways - maybe have some usable in combat and some not.  Could require having certain items in inventory - like bandages or torn trousers from which to make bandages.  Once the character has been given First Aid, they could heal over time until they are back to 100%.

[Maria Caliban]

There are injuries in Dragon Age?

[Tragick Flaw]

Not sure about making it more challenging, but how about modifying the character model so someone with an injury has a bandaged head or something?

[Amycus89]

Tragick Flaw wrote...

Not sure about making it more challenging, but how about modifying the character model so someone with an injury has a bandaged head or something?

Would just be weird if the injury wasnt caused by a "cracked skull" like in origins. In that case it would be better to just change the animation of the character so he looks hurt, like when your companions had low health in KOTOR.

I do like the idea of making party members death more punishing though. Maybe not as bad as perma death like in BG, but otherwise I'm all for higher incentive to keep everyone alive through a fight.

Modifié par Amycus89, 07 avril 2012 - 07:32 .

[MortalEngines]

Maria Caliban wrote...

There are injuries in Dragon Age?

^ This? For some reason I don't remember them, then again I'm not known to have the best of memories. 

[Cultist]

The reason is that you can ignore them as long as you can survive with one character. I.e. powerbuild rogue can kill entire locations alone, simply ignoring other party members as they cannot even get close to his damage output.

[LolaLei]

I often found that I didn't even realise when my characters had been injured or poisoned in DA:O/DA2 so I'd be running around for hours doing quests and fighting without even noticing lol.

It would be cool, if for example: you were poisoned in battle but you hadn't noticed, so you continue on your merry way but gradually the character starts to slow down or stagger around and progressively gets worse until he/she passes out if you didn't treat them. Or if you took an arrow to the knee (LOL) you limp around in game until you heal the injury. Just some sort of obvious physical sign that your pc/companions need medical attention.

[VampOrchid]

I would love to see damage to my armor or weapons and have to get them repaired by Wade

[PsychoBlonde]

VampOrchid wrote...

I would love to see damage to my armor or weapons and have to get them repaired by Wade

In a game with linear areas where you sometimes have to finish to get out again?  What are you going to do when your last sword breaks right before the Ancient Rock Wraith?  Sneeze it to death?  (And if stuff doesn't actually break and became unusable, what's the point of having gear damage?)  This sort of mechanic would add nothing except annoyance and cash absorption--in a game where they already limit you on cash pretty severely.

I think, if they're going to do injuries in any kind of serious way, they should remove injury kits from the game entirely.  I'd get lazy and let my characters go down left and right, chug a kit, and I never had to buy the things I had so many.

But if they REALLY want to give a feeling of attrition, what they need to do is to stop having everyone recover completely at the end of every fight.  That mechanic alone pretty much destroys any hope you have of this being an attrition-based game.  Attempting to then throw in an attrition mechanic on top of a base that's inherently attrition-proof is pointless.

They need to decide what they're doing here and stick with it.  The game they've made is one in which every battle is supposed to take some tactics and be somewhat life-threatening.  In an attrition sort of game, *most* of the fights are ******-easy.  What they do is plink away just a bit at your resources so you have to make decisions like, do I drop the big spell right now so we don't take damage, or do I defeat these enemies with standard abilities only, conserving my whammy but taking more damage?

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the went the route of having fewer combats with (a lot) fewer enemies per combat.   Then they can throw in the occasional zombie horde for fun in a place where it'd, you know, actually make sense to have a zombie horde.  Instead of every yahoo and his brother being the employer of a seemingly endless line of identical mooks.

[PinkShoes]

Yeah i agree

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

First order of business is to make injury kits rare and have a chance of (critical) failure on use, ideally tying success to some sort of utility skill or talent tree. The main idea is just to make injury kits much harder to come by and carry some risk on usage.

Second would be to vary the effects of injuries depending on the nature of the knockout blow. That wouldn't be easy, but you could boil it down to Bludgeon, Pierce, Slash and different schools of Magic, all of which have different effect.

Some would be the usual -HP or -Stat stuff, but mix it around a little - reduced movement speed, reduced attack speed, maybe they keel over randomly for 2-3 seconds if you fail a Fortitude roll, etc.

The third thing would be to give as many visual cues as possible through animations. You have to know what kind of injuries your characters are carrying and how it's effecting their combat performance.

At least that's what I'd suggest.

The other aspect would be to vastly cut down on the filler encounters and drastically change how enemies are designed (in line with the party). Otherwise, it'd just become tedious - throwing a million random bandit groups at you, each with someone who can randomly one hit people would make for a long time spent getting frustrated.

You want things to be challenging, but not in an arbitrary way.

Of course, simply having permdeath would achieve the same kind of atmosphere, encouraging tactical considerations, but would be wildly unpopular.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 09 avril 2012 - 08:43 .

[Dave of Canada]

Let's go all the way! Hardcore difficulty mode!

• Injuries are temporary and if not removed immediately, next knock-down permanently injures the character.
• No natural health regen, healing salves can only be applied outside of combat.
• Stamina and mana regenerates slowly. Stamina Draughts can cause a burn-out state if used too rapidly in succession, Lyrium potions can cause addiction which hinders the character if not satisfied.
• Healing magic is nerfed, making it less of a free potion and more of a "last stand" button. Blood Magic's sacrificial self healing remains the same, as you're simply taking the pain to somebody else and there's no way to patch them up.
• Spells like Rejuvenation causes no lyrium addiction or burn-out, making it significantly powerful. However, it's cooldown only resets upon returning to camp, making it more of a situational thing.
• Friendly-fire and unit collision remains.
• Poisons which sap enemies of their stamina / mana gain much more significance, charging in blindly isn't going to help and traps / salves become far more useful. Healing kits are absolutely necessary.
• Vital importance of non-combat alternatives, you don't want to waste all resources.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 avril 2012 - 09:22 .

[Askia32]

I think injuries having more consequences would be a good idea.  Like a injury kit can lessen the effect, but the character won't fully heal till at home/camp.

Modifié par Askia32, 09 avril 2012 - 09:35 .

[Chromie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

There are injuries in Dragon Age?

Yes but they did practically nothing. It was about as effective as throwing a rock at a tank.

CrustyBot wrote...
Second would be to vary the effects of injuries depending on the nature of the knockout blow. That wouldn't be easy, but you could boil it down to Bludgeon, Pierce, Slash and different schools of Magic, all of which have different effect.

Some would be the usual -HP or -Stat stuff, but mix it around a little - reduced movement speed, reduced attack speed, maybe they keel over randomly for 2-3 seconds if you fail a Fortitude roll, etc.

I'd also would like -hit, -dodge etc. all of that stuff. Certain enemies would have a higher chance to effect different things ie: an archer has a higher chance to slow movement, melee higher chance to cause a DoT until healed.

At least that's what I'd suggest.

The other aspect would be to vastly cut down on the filler encounters and drastically change how enemies are designed (in line with the party). Otherwise, it'd just become tedious - throwing a million random bandit groups at you, each with someone who can randomly one hit people would make for a long time spent getting frustrated.

I'm all for that but you know it's Bioware that has always been apart of their games.

Modifié par Skelter192, 09 avril 2012 - 09:49 .

[sickpixie]

CrustyBot wrote...

First order of business is to make injury kits rare and have a chance of (critical) failure on use, ideally tying success to some sort of utility skill or talent tree. The main idea is just to make injury kits much harder to come by and carry some risk on usage.

Reducing the total number of injury kits is all well and good, but a random chance of failure is pointless in any game where you can save/load anywhere and it just leads to degenerate gameplay behavior.

[bEVEsthda]

DA:O did these thing so much better than DA2.

But still, DA:O combat is just a Dungeon Siege variation.

Personally, I would rather like to just tear out the entire combat pardigms from DA, go back to BG,
... - and START FROM THERE.  (shouting to get the attention of all those who would naturally figure I'm suggesting it should be just like BG).
But that's not going to happen. Not now, anyway. And I've sort of made peace with that.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 09 avril 2012 - 02:09 .

[Cultist]

Ijuries should have very serious effects, like:
- Concussion^ +25% spell preparation time.
- Fracture: -25% melee damage.
- Bleeding: -25% healing effectiveness.
- Broken Bone: -25% speed.
- Coughing Blood: chance to misfire a spell.
- Cracked Skull: -25% spell damage.
- Crushed Arm: +25% cooldown on melee skills.
- Damaged Eye: chance to misfire (no damage ranged attack.
- Deafened: -25% defence.
- Head Trauma: Can't use spells.
and so on. Make injuries hard to heal, so people will actually be afraid to lose character, instead of ignoring losses as long as main damage dealer is alive.

[AkiKishi]

CrustyBot wrote...

First order of business is to make injury kits rare and have a chance of (critical) failure on use, ideally tying success to some sort of utility skill or talent tree. The main idea is just to make injury kits much harder to come by and carry some risk on usage.

Second would be to vary the effects of injuries depending on the nature of the knockout blow. That wouldn't be easy, but you could boil it down to Bludgeon, Pierce, Slash and different schools of Magic, all of which have different effect.

Some would be the usual -HP or -Stat stuff, but mix it around a little - reduced movement speed, reduced attack speed, maybe they keel over randomly for 2-3 seconds if you fail a Fortitude roll, etc.

The third thing would be to give as many visual cues as possible through animations. You have to know what kind of injuries your characters are carrying and how it's effecting their combat performance.

At least that's what I'd suggest.

The other aspect would be to vastly cut down on the filler encounters and drastically change how enemies are designed (in line with the party). Otherwise, it'd just become tedious - throwing a million random bandit groups at you, each with someone who can randomly one hit people would make for a long time spent getting frustrated.

You want things to be challenging, but not in an arbitrary way.

Of course, simply having permdeath would achieve the same kind of atmosphere, encouraging tactical considerations, but would be wildly unpopular.

Unless you have a time limit then injuries don't really work. Who cares if you need to rest for 1 game month if there is no passage of time in the game ? 

I'm a big fan of perma-death in games like Fire Emblem. However in Fire Emblem it's my screw up. I would be less than happy if the AI did something moronic which resulted in the same thing.

[grregg]

Cultist wrote...

Ijuries should have very serious effects, like:

(...)

I doubt that BioWare is going to do that considering that the trend in their games seems to be going precisely the opposite way. It looks like they're trying to pretty much remove consequences of combat, not add them.

Characters don't die, arrows don't run out, health and mana regenerate instantly after combat, and so on. In short, they're removing the strategic aspect of combat, freeing the player from the need to plan ahead for multiple battles.

Of course, stat-based combat with only one possible outcome (you win, completely) gets boring rather fast, but they are trying to compensate by adding awesome buttons. I'm curious how it'll work out in DA3 actually.

[Uccio]

Visual damage is also a good idea. A bit like in "Severance" or "Die by the Sword".

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Unless you have a time limit then injuries don't really work. Who cares if you need to rest for 1 game month if there is no passage of time in the game ? 

I'm a big fan of perma-death in games like Fire Emblem. However in Fire Emblem it's my screw up. I would be less than happy if the AI did something moronic which resulted in the same thing.

Simple, you make them permanent with ways to heal them. Aside from injury kits, you could dedicate spells to healing injuries (or adding extra effects that deal with the injuries i.e Heroic Aura = resistant to injury). You could also tie it into character interactions.

To use a DA 2 example, Anders in his clinic could give you the option to heal the party's injuries.

Who said anything about resting?

[Chromie]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Unless you have a time limit then injuries don't really work. Who cares if you need to rest for 1 game month if there is no passage of time in the game ? 

Dragon Age doesn't even have a rest feature and why would a time limit be necessary? 

[AkiKishi]

CrustyBot wrote...
Simple, you make them permanent with ways to heal them. Aside from injury kits, you could dedicate spells to healing injuries (or adding extra effects that deal with the injuries i.e Heroic Aura = resistant to injury). You could also tie it into character interactions.

To use a DA 2 example, Anders in his clinic could give you the option to heal the party's injuries.

Who said anything about resting?

If it's as simple as casting a spell then you may as well just have them removed after combat. It's not like D&D where not having cure blindness memorised could be a problem. In a mana system you have access to all the spells at all times.

I'd reload rather than walk all the way back to Anders clinic and then all the way back to where I previously was. That just seems like a time sink rather than a gameplay improvement.

[AkiKishi]

Skelter192 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Unless you have a time limit then injuries don't really work. Who cares if you need to rest for 1 game month if there is no passage of time in the game ? 

Dragon Age doesn't even have a rest feature and why would a time limit be necessary? 

Well Fallout is the only game where this sort of thing was really worth anything. That was what I was thinking of.