307 réponses à ce sujet

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

I can't help but thinking that Shepard's strong feelings about Earth invasion and "liberating it is a key" led him/her into sub-par/rushed resolution of the situation.
Almost during the course of the whole game you can feel the pressure being put up "we must liberate Earth, we must" - but, thinking logically, not emotionally, why? It's just another theater of war, even when pretty important one. Game lore makes plenty of points that it takes Reapers many many decades to actually "win", they are simply have not enough numbers, even if enough power.
You can't also help thinking that rushing all your resource into key battle at Earth ASAP could've prevented finding the proper solution (like finding more about Crucible or whatever Catalyst is or supposed to do).

Also I don't quite understand why Shepard with Colonist/ Spacer background has such strong, almost irrational, emotional attachment to Earth. It appears to me, it's just result of Bioware writers unable to shake mindset of Earth-born 

EDIT: It appears some people don't see distinction between human race and Earth. I don't believe that © TIM
There are plenty of examples in history when ethnicity survived long past their original homeland. In ME Universe the good example is Quarians

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 07 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[Combine911]

Love humans

**** aliens

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

I believe earth is just one of hundredth of human worlds, no?

[Snout]

AT LAST A GOOD THREAD!

I thought something similar, I wasn't sure how the whole galaxy thought that saving Earth was the key. Especially after Thessia and Palaven were falling.

In my girlfriends ME2 renegade run through, most of the galaxy hate humans so it'll be cool to see how it pans out or if they just make everyone love them again.

[Baihu1983]

Earth hole.

[Silmane]

It was just poor writing all around. A few of the characters got treated well, but most of it is just weak compared to the rest of the series.

You can't really sell and market a game about liberating a galaxy. Not yet. I think this has to do with some EA string pulling from the top.

This game(Bar the ending) feels like a chapter from the "Reaper War" and that there should be more to come. I know there WONT be, but that's what this game feels like. There's just so much more to do.

Being Spacer was cool and all in Mass Effect 1, but your background is irrelevant in ME3, as you already pointed out. Other than being told that your mother is working on the Crucible. Big deal.

[LegatoSkyheart]

The entire game though it's more of "I'll help you then you'll help me." type of deal.
Shepard helps the Turians and Krogan
Turians and Krogan (and Salarians)give Shepard Aid.
Shepard helps Quarians.
Shepard gets Quarians and possibly Geth Aid.

Honestly any of the core races could have done what Shepard did, except Shepard had a key. The Crucible.

[shodiswe]

Since the earth human alliance are the people that starts building the supposed superweapon it's only logical they try it out in their backyard first... Which theoreticaly makes them the guinipigs if it backfires..

Everyone else that joins the project later just hoeps the beta testing goes well so their homeworlds can be saved aswell... noone knows what it does and in the end you can see that the reapers are in control. My guess would be that the catalyst reaper /godchild or fairy godchild as some people calls it has an AI chackle that prevents it from making changes to itself, so instead it leaked designplans to those aliens several cycles back hoping organics would eventualy liberate it from the shackle limitations.

Ever since it became clear that the designs had been passed down for millions of years during countless cycles I started suspecting the reapers or reapers masters were involved in this crusible thing, and before I played the end mission I expected it to backfire badly.... The end did kind of backfire but not in the good way I was expecting... it was just weird and ilogical. The scripting and mission design must have hapend in an intellectual vacum with very little peer review. When you have a vision it's easy to forget that other people won't see it unless you share the entire vision, thats where plotholes are created. It's påossible the creator of the last mission had a grand vision but due to a lack of peer review and input it got lost along the way. Which is very sad and dissapointing for the fans that don't get to appreciate the master piece it should have been.

Modifié par shodiswe, 07 avril 2012 - 11:51 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

because earth is AWESOME

[lillitheris]

Yes, and it was a little tacked on. You have very little choice in the matter, which is in part understandable because of storytelling, but I think they could have woven the story so that even a non-specieist would be guided on the same path.

Personally my Shepards would typically be essentially the polar opposite of Cerberus, not caring for humans more than any of the other sapients (or caring as much for the latter, if that sounds less cold). And probably willing to sacrifice Sol.

(Actually I was really irritated when, in ME2, my Shepard defended her decision to sacrifice the council with some Rah-Rah Earth Roolz nonsense. She made the decision because it seemed like the better tactic in that situation, not because she liked humans more.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 07 avril 2012 - 11:49 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

LegatoSkyheart wrote...

The entire game though it's more of "I'll help you then you'll help me." type of deal.
Shepard helps the Turians and Krogan
Turians and Krogan (and Salarians)give Shepard Aid.
Shepard helps Quarians.
Shepard gets Quarians and possibly Geth Aid.

Honestly any of the core races could have done what Shepard did, except Shepard had a key. The Crucible.

I would be able to accept this, if Shepard would only gather scientific/engineering resources to build the Crucible.
But he's gathering huge amount of fleets - why? He couldn't gather them to re-take Catalyst near Earth, because he could not know at all how events will turn out much later (and it all happened suddenly and very fast when you've already supposed mostly to finish gathering assets).
If he gathering fleets from all races to re-take Earth, it feels a bit... assymetrical. Because, say, this does't help anybody else against reapers to same extent (for example, "aid" to Turians did what - mostly nothing anyway?)

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 07 avril 2012 - 11:51 .

[macko123456]

I'm not sure if this is a plot hole, you know . . . the Reapers had the largest concentration of their forces around Earth and in the end, that's where the Citadel was so it made sense for the final battle to take place there. And remember, Palaven was also saved in the game, so it's not like Earth got all the attention.

[bigbade]

because taking back earth was the whole gimmick of the game. Realistically, if a majority of the reapers were on earth like they claim, the council would have agreed to blowing up the Sol relay a la Arrival like 'thanks humans, sacrifice noted'.

[Wereparrot]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...



Also I don't quite understand why Shepard with Spacer background has such strong, almost irrational, emotional attachment to Earth. It appears to me, it's just result of Bioware writers unable to shake mindset of Earth-born 

There is nothing to suggest that Spacer Shepard could not have strong ties to Earth, even through being born on Earth on his mother's leave. His Spacer background does not rob him of a solid origin on and strong affiliation with Earth if that is the way you wish to RP him. The same goes for the colonist background.

[Silmane]

shodiswe wrote...

Since the earth human alliance are the people that starts building the supposed superweapon it's only logical they try it out in their backyard first... Which theoreticaly makes them the guinipigs if it backfires..

Everyone else that joins the project later just hoeps the beta testing goes well so their homeworlds can be saved aswell... noone knows what it does and in the end you can see that the reapers are in control. My guess would be that the catalyst reaper /godchild or fairy godchild as some people calls it has an AI chackle that prevents it from making changes to itself, so instead it leaked designplans to those aliens several cycles back hoping organics would eventualy liberate it from the shackle limitations.

Ever since it became clear that the designs had been passed down for millions of years during countless cycles I started suspecting the reapers or reapers masters were involved in this crusible thing, and before I played the end mission I expected it to backfire badly.... The end did kind of backfire but not in the good way I was expecting... it was just weird and ilogical. The scripting and mission design must have hapend in an intellectual vacum with very little peer review. When you have a vision it's easy to forget that other people won't see it unless you share the entire vision, thats where plotholes are created. It's påossible the creator of the last mission had a grand vision but due to a lack of peer review and input it got lost along the way. Which is very sad and dissapointing for the fans that don't get to appreciate the master piece it should have been.

Only reason that it fired near Earth was because the Reapers moved the Citadel. The plan was always relaying the Crucible to Widow system.

The plot to this game is atrocious and if it weren't for established characters and settings, it'd be on the bargain bin in a couple months.

[naddaya]

Wereparrot wrote...

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...



Also I don't quite understand why Shepard with Spacer background has such strong, almost irrational, emotional attachment to Earth. It appears to me, it's just result of Bioware writers unable to shake mindset of Earth-born 

There is nothing to suggest that Spacer Shepard could not have strong ties to Earth, even through being born on Earth on his mother's leave. His Spacer background does not rob him of a solid origin on and strong affiliation with Earth if that is the way you wish to RP him. The same goes for the colonist background.

I honestly didn't care for Earth more than I cared for Palaven, Thessia etc. My plan was to save the entire galaxy, not Earth.

[shodiswe]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

LegatoSkyheart wrote...

The entire game though it's more of "I'll help you then you'll help me." type of deal.
Shepard helps the Turians and Krogan
Turians and Krogan (and Salarians)give Shepard Aid.
Shepard helps Quarians.
Shepard gets Quarians and possibly Geth Aid.

Honestly any of the core races could have done what Shepard did, except Shepard had a key. The Crucible.

I would be able to accept this, if Shepard would only gather scientific/engineering resources to build the Crucible.
But he's gathering huge amount of fleets - why? He couldn't gather them to re-take Catalyst near Earth, because he could not know at all how events will turn out much later (and it all happened suddenly and very fast when you've already supposed mostly to finish gathering assets).
If he gathering fleets from all races to re-take Earth, it feels a bit... assymetrical. Because, say, this does't help anybody else against reapers to same extent (for example, "aid" to Turians did what - mostly nothing anyway?)

Sheard didn't know how long it woudl take to activate the crucible, how it worked or anything, im assuming they originaly assumed it was a super weapon that had to be escorted to every theater of conflict and used on the reapers. During which time it woudl have been important to keep the reapers from destroying the crucible before it fires. They simply didn't know what was needed and thus they needed every advantage they could get.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

macko123456 wrote...

I'm not sure if this is a plot hole, you know . . . the Reapers had the largest concentration of their forces around Earth and in the end, that's where the Citadel was so it made sense for the final battle to take place there. And remember, Palaven was also saved in the game, so it's not like Earth got all the attention.

Ummm... I say again, is Shepard prescient? How did he know in advance that Citadel will end above Earth and it will be the key (Catalyst)?
Btw I somehow got impression that Palaven was far from "saved". Battles were won, not war. And if the tide was turning - isn't this just another argument against rushing, and trying at least to stall wartide via conventional means before Crucible is investigated more?

[Erixxxx]

It's the human homeworld, Shepard's homeworld (spacer or not). The other races are similarly invested in their own homeworld and what stuff done there before they commit themselves to Earth. It's only natural in my mind that species worry about their own possessions the most.

[naddaya]

Erixxxx wrote...

It's the human homeworld, Shepard's homeworld (spacer or not). The other races are similarly invested in their own homeworld and what stuff done there before they commit themselves to Earth. It's only natural in my mind that species worry about their own possessions the most.

Shepard's goal is to stop the Reapers, not save Earth. Stop the Reapers for the entire galaxy.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Wereparrot wrote...

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...



Also I don't quite understand why Shepard with Spacer background has such strong, almost irrational, emotional attachment to Earth. It appears to me, it's just result of Bioware writers unable to shake mindset of Earth-born 

There is nothing to suggest that Spacer Shepard could not have strong ties to Earth, even through being born on Earth on his mother's leave. His Spacer background does not rob him of a solid origin on and strong affiliation with Earth if that is the way you wish to RP him. The same goes for the colonist background.

I agree, nothing to suggest it. Problem with approach "leave black for player imagination to fill", is that player will fill the blank with his/her interpretation alright, will accept it to fact, grow to love it, and later it will conflict with canon presented - leaving player quite upset.

[sedrikhcain]

There isn't a single character in the game who doesn't put their own species first unless circumstances force them to do otherwise for survival of the whole galaxy. (Before you say "Mordin", remember, he's the guy who perfected the genophage.)

I think many people project ideals and perfection on some of the alien characters (when it isn't necessarily there), then they come back and look at the human characters and expect them to be the same way, only that's not going to be the case because the humans are invariably more 3-dimensional than the aliens -- because the writers are human.

[edwards_77]

I think it was alluded to quite a few times that the Reapers viewed humans to be the race most suitable for creating a new, powerful Reaper. Muchof that came from the fact that humans were much more diverse than the other species, hence the larger concentration of forces in the Sol system. Also, Shepard mentions several times that Earth had pretty much worse than all the other places he visits during the game.

[Xandurpein]

Actually the sound military strategy for the combined Victory fleet would have been to concentrate their strength against worlds where the Reapers were spread thin. Attack with massive hit and run attacks, picking off smaller Reaper forces one by one. The last thing you want to do when you are numerically inferior is to attack the enemy's main grouping head on.

[Ziggeh]

Heh, to quote Carl Sagan:

"Our remote descendants, safely arrayed on many worlds throughout the Solar System and beyond, will be unified by their common heritage, by their regard for their home planet, and by the knowledge that, whatever other life may be, the only humans in all the Universe come from Earth. They will gaze up and strain to find the blue dot in their skies. They will love it no less for its obscurity and fragility. They will marvel at how vulnerable the repository of all our potential once was, how perilous our infancy, how humble our beginnings, how many rivers we had to cross before we found our way."

Modifié par Ziggeh, 07 avril 2012 - 12:02 .