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[General User]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

General User wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

General User wrote...

Liberating Earth WAS the key to victory. The Reapers primary objective for this cycle was to harvest humanity for a Reaper, Earth was the focus of the Reaper attack. Shepard's focusing on Earth and humanity is entirely justified.

Not really.  The reapers primary objective for this cycle was to harvest all races.  Their goals haven't changed.  We don't know why there was only a human reaper at the collector base in ME2.  In fact, we don't know that there was only a human reaper at the collector base.  It was a big place after all.  It's quite possible that, since we were working with Cerberus, a pro-human organisation regarded by the council as terrorists, they didn't tell us that non-human colonies where being harvested.  Or maybe they were trying to deal with them themselves.

It's true.  Of all the races the Reapers had a special interest in humanity.  Thus Earth faced the brunt of first the Reaper's attack, then the Reaper's harvesting efforts.  Why do you think the Reapers, after siezeing the Citadel choose to consolidate their forces around Earth and not, say, Palaven, or Thessia?

LIke I, and others, have said.  The Batarians were hit first.  As to your question, I have no idea why the Reapers chose to consolidate around Earth.  It doesn't make any sense to me in terms of the story.  In terms of the game it's to make the players feel more of a sense of urgency.

The Batarian Hegemony was never anything more than road block that the Reapers had to go through to get to their primary objective.  When Shepard destroyed the Alpha Relay in Arrival  the Reapers had no choice but to got through the batarians first no matter what.

[Dean_the_Young]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

JUst asking, where did you get the over 99% number from?  With having human colonies and humans on the citadel and, presumably on non-human dominated planets throughout the galaxy and not forgetting the ship based human populations, over 99% seems somewhat high to me.  If you have cannonical sources for the number then I'll happily agree that the number's right.  Although my Shepard still won't personally prefer Earth over anywhere else.

The population numbers and scales from planet scans. (The consistent ones, anyway.)

Besides that Humanity doesn't even have that many major colonies, most being populated in the 'hundreds of thousands' range, the largest colonies in the Alliance has... around five million people.

Earth is a planet of 11.4 billion. Even if we significantly rounded down several billion to that nice, round number of 10 billion, there would need to be over a 100 million Human colonists in order to be just 1% of the population.


Human colonies that even approach 1 million humans are exceptional. Horizon was 1.5 million before the Collectors hit it. The entirety of the Collector Abductions in the Terminus only amounted to a few million at most.



Humanity doesn't have the number of major colonies to reach 100 million, let alone 1% of the pre-Reaper Earth population. The Alliance's colonization strategy is currently in the 'small colonies' stage.

[Zkyire]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

A human protagonist caring about his own species' homeworld?

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

This is oversimplification.
Caring about his species homeworld so much that willing to sacrifice overall galaxy-wide strategy in favour of inferior/quicker one.

The rest of this thread has already shown that you're wrong.

 - Citadel at Earth.
 - Reapers are harvesting humans at Earth to create a new Reaper.
 - Reapers consolidating their forces at Earth.
 - Harbinger himself at Earth.
 - Majority of human population is on Earth, they NEED the planet saved or the species is exterminated. The other species have larger populations and more colonies than the Alliance have.
 - Not to mention the fact the the other species don't help you with your homeworld until you help them with theirs.



"Damnit why does Shepard care so much about Earth? Makes no sense, damnit!"

Modifié par Zkyire, 07 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[lillitheris]

Since the war strategy is a little off-topic for this thread (and many others), I started http://social.biowar.../index/11135392, which I'll try to flesh out later on, but feel free to jump in on the couple points I jotted down there…

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

The Batarian Hegemony was never anything more than road block that the Reapers had to go through to get to their primary objective.  When Shepard destroyed the Alpha Relay in Arrival  the Reapers had no choice but to got through the batarians first no matter what.

Only because of author fiat as to where the Hegemony was going to be.

With Mass Relays, species space is actually widely dispersed. The Batarian Hegemony's biggest concentrations could have been near the Traverse and Terminus, rather than where the Alpha Relay was.

[Icesong]

paxxton wrote...

It's because computer games are played mostly by humans not aliens. Besides, he was ordered by a supreme officer to gather fleets to save Earth. As a soldier he is supposed to follow this order.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Spectres

[Xandurpein]

Considering so much of humanity still lives on Earth, Shepard's focus on saving Earth is perfectly understandable and I think it would be almost inhuman of him not to care about his spieces homeworld more than other worlds. That should however been balanced by representatives of the other spieces. A sound strategy would still be to use the Victory fleet against in hit and run tactics smaller Reaper forces to keep them off guard. Once they find out the Citadel is the Catalyst things change, but until then, gaining local superiority against isolated Reaper groups is definitely the best strategy.

[paxxton]

Icesong wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's because computer games are played mostly by humans not aliens. Besides, he was ordered by a supreme officer to gather fleets to save Earth. As a soldier he is supposed to follow this order.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Spectres

Well, all right, whether he's still a Spectre depends on your decision in ME2. Anyway, Anderson in ME3 says Shepard used to be a Spectre, regardless of that choice.

Modifié par paxxton, 07 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[lillitheris]

Zkyire wrote...

The rest of this thread has already shown that you're wrong.

I don't often say this, but ‘lol’.

- Citadel at Earth.

Nope, that's late in the game.

- Reapers are harvesting humans at Earth to create a new Reaper.
 - Reapers consolidating their forces at Earth.

True, but this – strategically speaking – means that Earth is probably lost anyway, and that it might be better to just give up on it.

- Harbinger himself at Earth.

Meh. Harby's just one machine dude. There's lots of them.

- Majority of human population is on Earth, they NEED the planet saved or the species is exterminated.

Patently false. There are at least a billion humans out there, although I do think that Earth still had the majority. But that's a far cry from ‘extinction’.

"Damnit why does Shepard care so much about Earth? Makes no sense, damnit!"

YOUR Shepard should care, if you like! One of mine does, in fact. But my other ones don't! One's a misanthrope, and the rest are very analytic.

How's it taking away from you if there was a choice to not be all about Earth?

[Prosarian]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

I think I need to edit the title, humans != earth.
Even if you agree that majority of the population was on earth somehow (and not enough people outside for human race to survive), they still could follow quarians example, by doing massive exodus to preserve enough of the gene pool for race to survive even if home world is decimated. This is science fiction staple.

Majority of the Population was on earth. 11 billion as compared to a few million on colonies such as eden prime

That's still a lot of people dead, at least 11 billion even by the quarians' standard, and in any case that example could go for any race.

[lillitheris]

I have to say here that I really do not understand how you can argue that Shepard should do this, or feel that. The whole f(%#&ng point is roleplaying. Your Shep does A, mine does B, and someone else's goes for C. That's how it should work!

I mean, it really can't be that difficult a concept to grasp? Are any of you even considering this from a Renegade perspective?

Modifié par lillitheris, 07 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[Transgirlgamer]

Zkyire wrote...

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

A human protagonist caring about his own species' homeworld?

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

This is oversimplification.
Caring about his species homeworld so much that willing to sacrifice overall galaxy-wide strategy in favour of inferior/quicker one.

The rest of this thread has already shown that you're wrong.

 - Citadel at Earth.

It wasn't right up untill you launch the assault on the Cerberus base.

- Reapers are harvesting humans at Earth to create a new Reaper.

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.

- Reapers consolidating their forces at Earth.

If they're doing that then tactically it makes more sense to go after other planets and free them, so that 1, there are less forces at your back to re-inforce the reapers at Earth when you attack there and 2, free up the forces defending the other places to bolster the fleet you take to earth.

- Harbinger himself at Earth.

So the whole franchise comes down to a grudge between Shepard and Harbinger?  Who we then never interact with.

- Majority of human population is on Earth, they NEED the planet saved or the species is exterminated. The other species have larger populations and more colonies than the Alliance have.

What is the minimum number of individuals that needs to survive to rebuild the race?  The protheans chose 1 million I think it was.  I may be wrong there.

 - Not to mention the fact the the other species don't help you with your homeworld until you help them with theirs.

All the more reason to concentrate on other planets first.

"Damnit why does Shepard care so much about Earth? Makes no sense, damnit!"

It doesn't for my Spacer born, Spectre first Shepard who might never have been there before the events directly leading up to ME3.

Modifié par Transgirlgamer, 07 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Majority of the Population was on earth. 11 billion as compared to a few million on colonies such as eden prime

That's still a lot of people dead, at least 11 billion even by the quarians' standard, and in any case that example could go for any race.

Yep, and Batarians were almost completely decimated, so?
As long as human race is preserved, I could think about trying evacuate as much as we can, but not being bent on Earth re-taking, if, say this means that we could actually properly finish the Crucible - slam the Reapers back and then re-populate the Earth.
I can't help but feel to some extent that this whole mess with Cerberus freaking out, unknown starkid suddenly springing on Shepard, Crucible firing in strange way was due to rush and lack of complete preparation - due to this "we must take the earth ASAP" slogan.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 07 avril 2012 - 02:42 .

[Icesong]

paxxton wrote...

Icesong wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's because computer games are played mostly by humans not aliens. Besides, he was ordered by a supreme officer to gather fleets to save Earth. As a soldier he is supposed to follow this order.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Spectres

Well, all right, whether he's still a Spectre depends on your decision in ME2. Anyway, Anderson in ME3 says Shepard used to be a Spectre, regardless of that choice.

Anderson said "you are" not "used' for me. And it got upheld later. I'm pretty sure even if you don't get provisionary reinstatement in ME2 you'll still be offered  reinstatement in ME3.

[Zkyire]

lillitheris wrote...

Meh. Harby's just one machine dude. There's lots of them.

Harbinger is said to be the oldest, largest and most powerful Reaper in the fleet.

Aswell as their leader.

And he is at Earth. You don't think that's reason enough to take him out?

lillitheris wrote...
Patently false. There are at least a billion humans out there, although I do think that Earth still had the majority. But that's a far cry from ‘extinction’.

It's already stated in the start of the game that the Alliance have lost contact with most if not all of their colonies beyond the Sol relay. Meaning many of those colonies are either already exterminated, or under attack.

So no, the extra solar human population is nowhere near a billion.

lillitheris wrote...
YOUR Shepard should care, if you like! One of mine does, in fact. But my other ones don't! One's a misanthrope, and the rest are very analytic.

How's it taking away from you if there was a choice to not be all about Earth?

This isn't a matter of "my" Shepard or "your" Shepard.

Shepard has some established personality traits, one of which is caring about the survival of his species. Because you do or don't, doesn't mean Shepard doesn't.

[Prosarian]

lillitheris wrote...

Prosarian wrote...
It would be like saying Irish-Americans wouldn't give a damn that Ireland's being decimated since they haven't been there recently. Or African-Americans etc.

Let's say aliens attacked Earth, Ireland among other places. Would your Irish-Americans be concerned solely about Ireland, or would they maybe look at the bigger picture and see what the strategic tradeoffs are?

My point was that they would still care, they would not stop caring simply because they were a few years removed. It's not as if Shepard went and said "Screw the rest of the galaxy, I'm just gonna save Earth". He still went around helping many other species.

[Zkyire]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.

They're exterminating and indoctrinating other species.

They're harvesting humans.

[Barquiel]

Zkyire wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.

They're exterminating and indoctrinating other species.

They're harvesting humans.

According to the codex, they harvest the other races too.

[lillitheris]

Zkyire wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Meh. Harby's just one machine dude. There's lots of them.

Harbinger is said to be the oldest, largest and most powerful Reaper in the fleet.

Aswell as their leader.

And he is at Earth. You don't think that's reason enough to take him out?

No, if it means losing the war.

lillitheris wrote...

It's already stated in the start of the game that the Alliance have lost contact with most if not all of their colonies beyond the Sol relay. Meaning many of those colonies are either already exterminated, or under attack.

So no, the extra solar human population is nowhere near a billion.

We don't have exact numbers, but even a million is plenty. And it's a lot more than that. And, again, it's kinda pointless if you lose the war anyway.

This isn't a matter of "my" Shepard or "your" Shepard.

Shepard has some established personality traits, one of which is caring about the survival of his species. Because you do or don't, doesn't mean Shepard doesn't.

It's exactly a matter of choices. ME was about the Reapers. ME2 was initially about humans (because nobody else was getting attacked), and then about Reapers. ME3 is somehow all of a sudden all about humans?

Again, I'm perfectly OK if your Shepard's really into that. Mine's not. And shouldn't be required to be. It's lazy.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Zkyire wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.

They're exterminating and indoctrinating other species.

They're harvesting humans.

I guess depends on what you mean by "harvesting"
Husks are made from humans
Cannibals - from batarians,
Marauders - from turians, etc

As for "if they process only humans to reapers" - you should read codex more, about Krogan taking out their processing centres on Palaven and such. 

[Wabajakka]

This is true.

But Shepard is the one who helps all of these species greatly and they now are really following his lead.

I bet the end wouldn't have been on Earth if the Citadel moved anywhere else in the galaxy.

Plus, Earth was also hit first, so it'd be the planet that should receive aid as soon as possible as they are in the worst condition.

[lillitheris]

Prosarian wrote...

My point was that they would still care, they would not stop caring simply because they were a few years removed. It's not as if Shepard went and said "Screw the rest of the galaxy, I'm just gonna save Earth". He still went around helping many other species.

…Because Shepard had to, in order to get them to abandon their problems and come help Earth. I just replayed the first missions. There's dialogue.

[lillitheris]

Orange Tee wrote...
Plus, Earth was also hit first, so it'd be the planet that should receive aid as soon as possible as they are in the worst condition.

No…in a war for survival, that's not  that might not be a good strategy at all.

Modifié par lillitheris, 07 avril 2012 - 02:48 .

[Transgirlgamer]

Zkyire wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.

They're exterminating and indoctrinating other species.

They're harvesting humans.

At the moment as the other races are the ones that are special in a militaristic way.  Asari are biotic, Turiansand Krogan are strong and tough warriors, Rachni are numerous with a high breeding rate.  Plus, just because we don't see other races being harvested doesn't mean it's not happening.  It's said at least once that the reapers harvest races over a certain technological level.  That would apply to all of the races you meet and, in fact, would apply least to humans as they're technologically the least advanced.  The only reason to harvest humans, using the god-child's logic, is because they actually built an AI before the events of the book Revelation.  That and humans have Shepard.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

 Earth was also hit first, so it'd be the planet that should receive aid as soon as possible as they are in the worst condition.

I feel worse and worse for poor batarians... Yeah, they are kind of jerks, but don't deserve this...