307 réponses à ce sujet

[Puzzlewell]

I myself couldn't help but be a bit annoyed in the end game when my canon Spacer Shep kept saying things like "It's good to be home." when talking about Earth. Ummm... You grew up on starships spacerShep, what is this? I've mostly chalked it up to lazy writing at this point.

I know it's probably supposed to mean that since that's where the human race originated from, it's every human's "home" in the end regardless of upbringing but it still made me feel a fair bit pulled out of my character.

[Prosarian]

Transgirlgamer wrote...
             

- Reapers are harvesting humans at Earth to create a new Reaper.

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.

Actually it was pretty clear in ME2 that they were especially interested in harvesting Humans.

- Reapers consolidating their forces at Earth.

If
they're doing that then tactically it makes more sense to go after
other planets and free them, so that 1, there are less forces at your
back to re-inforce the reapers at Earth when you attack there and 2,
free up the forces defending the other places to bolster the fleet you
take to earth.

The point of attacking the reapers where they were strongest was to use the crucible agains them. In which case it would make sense to fight where the concentration of reapers is highest

- Harbinger himself at Earth.

So the whole franchise comes down to a grudge between Shepard and Harbinger?  Who we then never interact with.

Harbinger was considered to be their leader, in which case his destruction would have been of tremendous strategic value.

- Majority of human population is on
Earth, they NEED the planet saved or the species is exterminated. The
other species have larger populations and more colonies than the
Alliance have.

What is the minimum number of
individuals that needs to survive to rebuild the race?  The protheans
chose 1 million I think it was.  I may be wrong there.

The question was not of continuing the human species. Even the protheans only got to that point when it seemed all hope was lost. There were still billions left on earth, for the alliance to cut their losses and just run at that point would be utterly ridiculous.

[CrazyBirdman]

I often missed the options to say, I do not care specifically for earth, I care for the galaxy. My Shepard had barely any connection to earth. I would have loved to take back Thessia or Palaven mainly because the alien characters are in my opinion far better written and I had a more emotional connection to them.

[Transgirlgamer]

Orange Tee wrote...

I bet the end wouldn't have been on Earth if the Citadel moved anywhere else in the galaxy.

You're right it wouldn't.  But the story offers no reason why the citadel was moved to earth.

Plus, Earth was also hit first, so it'd be the planet that should receive aid as soon as possible as they are in the worst condition.

No, the Batarians were hit first.  Why not liberate them first?

[Prosarian]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Majority of the Population was on earth. 11 billion as compared to a few million on colonies such as eden prime

That's still a lot of people dead, at least 11 billion even by the quarians' standard, and in any case that example could go for any race.

Yep, and Batarians were almost completely decimated, so?

As long as human race is preserved, I could think about trying evacuate as much as we can, but not being bent on Earth re-taking, if, say this means that we could actually properly finish the Crucible - slam the Reapers back and then re-populate the Earth.

The batarians were almost completely decimated, so they would have to start thinking of a way to preserve their species. Humanity hadn't gotten that far yet, there were still billions left. There's no reason to abandon Earth and start thinking of saving other species when there are billions of people left.

And we did finish the crucible.

[Icesong]

It would be like saying Irish-Americans wouldn't give a damn that Ireland's being decimated since they haven't been there recently. Or African-Americans etc.

For the record, as an "African-American" I wouldn't care about Africa. And I want my Shepard to not get emotional about Earth for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is that she should've been mentally prepared for this eventuality. I picked "Ruthless" for a reason.

[Bourne Endeavor]

edwards_77 wrote...

I think it was alluded to quite a few times that the Reapers viewed humans to be the race most suitable for creating a new, powerful Reaper. Muchof that came from the fact that humans were much more diverse than the other species, hence the larger concentration of forces in the Sol system. Also, Shepard mentions several times that Earth had pretty much worse than all the other places he visits during the game.

While correct, therein lies the problem. If humans were considered liable for Reaper "ascension," then why are the Reapers slaughtering them by the thousands? It seems rather counter-productive to their goal. Furthermore, the only "humans more diversified" nonsense is idiot science. The Asari alone would be more diversified then humans based on how they can randomize genetics to create offspring, unless BioWare is attempting to argue human's difference in appearance is key. Either way, it is a weak plot line but feasible to some extent.

The Earth-centric focus I almost guarantee was pressed upon by EA, who want to compete with other FPS titles and Earth is an easy sell to the masses. People are generally gullible in this regard, especially Americans. No offense to anyone in particular however there is a reason patriotism sells so damn well. Frankly, I'm amazed BioWare referenced Vancouver and not Seattle. Basically, Mass Effect shifted from a galaxy focus to Earth, which is somewhat generic. Not necessarily bad, just overdone and the utter lack of foreshadowing indicates this was not the original plan regardless what BioWare claims now.

[Prosarian]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

I bet the end wouldn't have been on Earth if the Citadel moved anywhere else in the galaxy.

You're right it wouldn't.  But the story offers no reason why the citadel was moved to earth.

Plus, Earth was also hit first, so it'd be the planet that should receive aid as soon as possible as they are in the worst condition.

No, the Batarians were hit first.  Why not liberate them first?

The citadel was moved to earth because that's where the reaper forces where strongest and they wanted to prevent the use of the citadel in the crucible.

Because the Batarians were completely lost, their fleets and colonies and their homeworld almost utterly decimated. and they reapers had begun to move on to earth.

[Fixers0]

I was actually more shocked that Arcturus station was destroyed, as that was basically the central location of Human power in the galaxy, i might remind everyone that earth isn't actually Alliance territory and in fact is still controlled by many independant nations, yet there is no evidence of this in game for example did we ever see soldiers that belong to national militaries, nope, that's because Bioware likes to retcon lore away whenever it comes in the way of ''artistic integrity''.

But seriously, the tactical value that earth represents to the alliance is almost nihl, no point in sacrificing your fleets for protecting that ''acid-waste slum''.

[FirstCitizen800]

The Earth plotline does feel a little bit forced. It should be up to the player as to whether or not they feel more like a citizen of the Council or a citizen of Earth. On the other hand, the Shepard who is unattached to Earth is about as likely as the American from Hawaii or Alaska who watches the mainland U.S. getting obliterated and goes "Meh" its not like I was from the mainland anyway. Or, looking the very low figures for off-world settlement, it's probably more akin to expecting a the Americans in an Antartic research bases to be pretty 'Meh' about all the states going kaput, Hawaii and Alaska included, sense it represents about 99% of the American population.

Similarly, it's be like British were cool with sacrificing all of the Kingdom, as long as the channel islands were saved and able to aid the French in the continuing fight just because the protagonist was born there.

Modifié par FirstCitizen800, 07 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[Prosarian]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

edwards_77 wrote...

I think it was alluded to quite a few times that the Reapers viewed humans to be the race most suitable for creating a new, powerful Reaper. Muchof that came from the fact that humans were much more diverse than the other species, hence the larger concentration of forces in the Sol system. Also, Shepard mentions several times that Earth had pretty much worse than all the other places he visits during the game.

While correct, therein lies the problem. If humans were considered liable for Reaper "ascension," then why are the Reapers slaughtering them by the thousands? It seems rather counter-productive to their goal. Furthermore, the only "humans more diversified" nonsense is idiot science. The Asari alone would be more diversified then humans based on how they can randomize genetics to create offspring, unless BioWare is attempting to argue human's difference in appearance is key. Either way, it is a weak plot line but feasible to some extent.

The Earth-centric focus I almost guarantee was pressed upon by EA, who want to compete with other FPS titles and Earth is an easy sell to the masses. People are generally gullible in this regard, especially Americans. No offense to anyone in particular however there is a reason patriotism sells so damn well. Frankly, I'm amazed BioWare referenced Vancouver and not Seattle. Basically, Mass Effect shifted from a galaxy focus to Earth, which is somewhat generic. Not necessarily bad, just overdone and the utter lack of foreshadowing indicates this was not the original plan regardless what BioWare claims now.

The reapers were destroying all means of defence and resistane, the purpose of the devastation was to ensure that the remaining humans would be easily herded into concentration camps like the one EDI mentioned. Then the harvesting would begin.

The 'Earth-centrc focus' is a staple of almost all science-fiction. It's one thing that you can't blame EA for. The fact that our Protaganist is human is another example of trying for  an 'easy sell to the masses', but it's completely logical, almost all stories have human protaganists.

And i remember a lot more missions on alien worlds than on earth, so i'm not sure how ME "shifted from a galaxy focus to Earth"

[vorianxavier]

The current set-up can hardly be pleasing to anyone who's been around since ME1..my canon Shep actually *is* an Earthborn, so I was hoping she'd do some specific reminiscing over her hardscrabble upbringing with the gang and all that. Nope.

[Transgirlgamer]

[quote]Prosarian wrote...

[quote]Transgirlgamer wrote...
             

- Reapers are harvesting humans at Earth to create a new Reaper.

They're harvesting sentient races everywhere.  That's the whole point of the reapers.
[/quote]

Actually it was pretty clear in ME2 that they were especially interested in harvesting Humans.

[/quote]
Actually, we don't know that as most of our information came through T.I.M. who wasn't interested in other races.

What didn't come from him came from the council during your visits to the citadel and they could have been withholding information from you.
[quote
[quote][quote] - Reapers consolidating their forces at Earth.[/quote]


If
they're doing that then tactically it makes more sense to go after
other planets and free them, so that 1, there are less forces at your
back to re-inforce the reapers at Earth when you attack there and 2,
free up the forces defending the other places to bolster the fleet you
take to earth.[/quote]

The point of attacking the reapers where they were strongest was to use the crucible agains them. In which case it would make sense to fight where the concentration of reapers is highest

[/quote]

Actually, it makes more sense to use it where the concentration of reapers is least to find out if it even worked first.  Untill it's found out what/where the catalyst is of course, then this point becomes moot as you have to go where the Citadel is.  But tactically, since you don't know what the crucible does, the best stragegy is to not leve an enemy that can attack you from behind.

[quote]
[quote][quote] - Harbinger himself at Earth.[/quote]

So the whole franchise comes down to a grudge between Shepard and Harbinger?  Who we then never interact with.
[/quote]
Harbinger was considered to be their leader, in which case his destruction would have been of tremendous strategic value.[/quote]

Harbinger's still only one reaper.  You can't apply human values of morale to the reapers.  We know nothing about their society so have no idea what difference the destruction of what may or may not be their leader would make.

Also, just because harbinger is the only reaper other than sovreign that we interact with doesn't make it their leader.  It could just be their mouthpiece.

[quote]
[quote][quote] - Majority of human population is on
Earth, they NEED the planet saved or the species is exterminated. The
other species have larger populations and more colonies than the
Alliance have.[/quote]

What is the minimum number of
individuals that needs to survive to rebuild the race?  The protheans
chose 1 million I think it was.  I may be wrong there.
[/quote]


The question was not of continuing the human species. Even the protheans only got to that point when it seemed all hope was lost. There were still billions left on earth, for the alliance to cut their losses and just run at that point would be utterly ridiculous.
[/quote]

With how you worded your original statement, it was about survival of the species.  I've bolded the part I mean.  But to answer the other part of the statement, the same could be said of any world of any species.

My Shepard is a Spectre first which means doing what is neccessary for the good of all the races, not just the humans.

[azerSheppard]

The plot of the game is rediculous if you dig too deep into it. It took all of the alliance forces to take down one Reaper, WHY WOULD ANYONE DISMISS A FULL ON INVASION?

Thousands and thousands of reapers at once. You'd think EVERYONE would be in unison if they realised there was no "wait till it flies over" option.

The only portion that makes sense is undoing the genophage, incase the fight turn into a multi-century long battle of attrition, dem Krogan babies, and maybe Rachni fledgelings would come in handy by the millions, if not trillions.

[Prosarian]

Actually, we don't know that as most of our information came through T.I.M. who wasn't interested in other races.

What
didn't come from him came from the council during your visits to the
citadel and they could have been withholding information from you.

So when you went on the mission to stop the collecters from harvesting humans, your other crew member didn't think to mention that their colonies were also being harvested. There was no mention from any of them, at all.

Actually, it makes more sense to use it where the concentration of
reapers is least to find out if it even worked first.  Untill it's found
out what/where the catalyst is of course, then this point becomes moot
as you have to go where the Citadel is.  But tactically, since you don't
know what the crucible does, the best stragegy is to not leve an enemy
that can attack you from behind.

This part makes sense, they should test it out before using it in the final push, so they should have had another planet in mind perhaps. But the crucible was under human control, and i'd think Hackett would use it to liberate Earth first. This perticular point can only be explained as a result of Hackett's bias.

Harbinger's still only one reaper.  You can't apply human values of
morale to the reapers.  We know nothing about their society so have no
idea what difference the destruction of what may or may not be their
leader would make.

Also, just because harbinger is the only
reaper other than sovreign that we interact with doesn't make it their
leader.  It could just be their mouthpiece.

It is known that Harbinger is the oldest and largest reaper in the fleet, that would imply that he is more than a mouthpiece. The fact that there is any distinction at all between the reapers would indicate that there is a difference in terms of their roles, functions and perhaps even personalities. Whether or not it would have an effect on morale can't be known, but removing the leader would still have reduced their effectiveness.

With how you worded your original statement, it was about
survival of the species.  I've bolded the part I mean.  But to answer
the other part of the statement, the same could be said of any world of
any species.

My Shepard is a Spectre first which means doing what is neccessary for the good of all the races, not just the humans.

That part isn't my statement. My point was that, with Billions of humans still left, we shouldn't be looking at ways to preserve what's left, but at rescuing the huge number of people still left alive.

[Rafe34]

I think the reason given for going after Earth is that 50% or so of the Reaper fleet is there.

Of course, this then begs the question of why the Reapers sent half their forces to Earth if they don't have a particular interest in humanity, (which they did in the original script, the dark energy ending).

Modifié par Rafe34, 07 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[Fruit of the Doom]

To quote Aethyta: "anthropocentric bag of dicks"

[Transgirlgamer]

Prosarian wrote...

Actually, we don't know that as most of our information came through T.I.M. who wasn't interested in other races.

What
didn't come from him came from the council during your visits to the
citadel and they could have been withholding information from you.

So when you went on the mission to stop the collecters from harvesting humans, your other crew member didn't think to mention that their colonies were also being harvested. There was no mention from any of them, at all.

Why would my squadmates know any more than their governments were letting people know?

Harbinger's still only one reaper.  You can't apply human values of
morale to the reapers.  We know nothing about their society so have no
idea what difference the destruction of what may or may not be their
leader would make.

Also, just because harbinger is the only
reaper other than sovreign that we interact with doesn't make it their
leader.  It could just be their mouthpiece.

It is known that Harbinger is the oldest and largest reaper in the fleet, that would imply that he is more than a mouthpiece. The fact that there is any distinction at all between the reapers would indicate that there is a difference in terms of their roles, functions and perhaps even personalities. Whether or not it would have an effect on morale can't be known, but removing the leader would still have reduced their effectiveness.

Is it?  I admit I haven't read all the codex entries.  I'm fully ready to admit if I'm wrong about this, or any point and it can be proven via cannonical sources.

With how you worded your original statement, it was about
survival of the species.  I've bolded the part I mean.  But to answer
the other part of the statement, the same could be said of any world of
any species.

My Shepard is a Spectre first which means doing what is neccessary for the good of all the races, not just the humans.

That part isn't my statement. My point was that, with Billions of humans still left, we shouldn't be looking at ways to preserve what's left, but at rescuing the huge number of people still left alive.

My mistake.  I guess I assumed it was your statement.  The fact that I was replying to that statement in particular, regardless of who said it still applies though.  As does the part where a spectre is supposed to be acting in the best interests of all races, not just their own.

[SealKudos]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

You haven't being paying attention, Batarians were hit first and ground zero. But - who cares about them, nobody likes them anyway, right? 

Actually, you're right.  Nobody cares about them.  How often did you hear their defeat mentioned in ME3, really?  How many said, "Time to retake Batarian space!"

I'm not saying I agree with the notion, but it seems as far as galactic relations went, no one really minded the Batarians kicking it in.  Except the Batarians.

The humans, however, have proven themselves - Human Spectres, Counciler, the battle with Sovereign, the fact that Commander Shepard himself is a human - it shows how important humans are to the galaxy's defense and preservation as a whole.  Maybe if the Batarians put in a little more help than mercenary groups and drug trade, they would be a higher priority.

Not hatin' on the Batarians.  Just pointing it out.

[Zamnil Blackaxe]

Because if Shepard didn't get the fleets together to take back Earth in the opening and perhaps most decisive actions of the war the Council forces would be bankrupt and unable to continue a protracted campaign of resistence for more than a year, it even says as much in the spectre office(I think, I only did 1 playthrough)

A large amount of reaper forces were involved in the Earth assault and then the battle at the end, within only a few months the war was already on a knifes edge and the battle for Earth was were this would be won or lost.

[AshirahTSparkle]

They should have filled in the gaps as to why Reapers were so interested in Earth. Maybe even let the Human Reaper in ME2 play a bigger part in the plot of Me3. Like the Human Reaper was very very very important for the Reapers because it's a whole different kind of Reaper being created with the using of Humans.The destruction of the Human Reaper in ME2 made the Reapers desperate to recreate it again, so they attacked Earth. Shepard found out pieces of information about this and because no one knows why they want a HUman Reaper so badly and what will happen once the Human Reaper is completed, therefore it was wise to try and save Earth.

That would have easily filled in the gap as in why Earth gained attention instead of other planets. Remember Thessia? The most advanced race in the Galaxy live there and they got wiped out easily, while Earth could still hold for so long even when the bulk of the Reapers were on Earth? Doesn't add up

Modifié par AshirahTSparkle, 07 avril 2012 - 04:31 .

[Icinix]

Not once - in fact, I felt further detached from my Shepard because they no longer became a character of my build or my choosing in many parts. They felt like a fixed avatar I was just playing as.

[sedrikhcain]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

It is known that Harbinger is the oldest and largest reaper in the fleet, that would imply that he is more than a mouthpiece. The fact that there is any distinction at all between the reapers would indicate that there is a difference in terms of their roles, functions and perhaps even personalities. Whether or not it would have an effect on morale can't be known, but removing the leader would still have reduced their effectiveness.

Is it?  I admit I haven't read all the codex entries.  I'm fully ready to admit if I'm wrong about this, or any point and it can be proven via cannonical sources.

The codex entry on Harbinger says that our intelligence assumes Harbinger is the oldest and largest in the fleet. Given that what we know about the Reapers could just about fill a thimble, I wouldn't take that as certain fact.

Modifié par sedrikhcain, 08 avril 2012 - 04:56 .

[AnuzaGray]

PR selling point.

TAKE BACK EARTH

[MelancholyV]

My Shepard made ONE comment about Mindoir during the Ashes DLC, but otherwise it seemed like she was born and raised on Earth. It was a bit frustrating since there would have been few times that she was actually on the damn planet. She would understand the invasion is a big deal and it's the humans' homeworld, but her sympathy would end about there.