52 réponses à ce sujet

[AtlasMickey]

I was relieved to hear at the PAX panel that the developers are proud of their accomplishment and they should be. What an amazing achievement. I am in awe.

I want more.

Not necessarily more Mass Effect, although I do want that, but big BIG epic multipart games that take your saved games files from one to the next. Are there going to be more of these, do you think?

People complain that it seems like choices really didn't matter and even go so far as to say BioWare and EA are guilty of false advertising to that effect, but I don't think they realize just how difficult and ambitious that is to create. We should be proud of them for giving it a good try.

Does anyone remember Shenmue? That was originally planned as a big console epic as well. It was going to keep your saved game file and carry it through a serial story. New chapters were going to be released on a monthly basis. I got behind that too and, although I was not happy with how it turned out (you talk about "space magic"... oooh wait till you see the ending to Shenmue 2... WTF was that?) I am in awe and splendor that they even tried. I was so sad that they never made a Shenmue 3. To this day the story is not concluded. To those of you who think you didn't get closure, and are still upset that BioWare is releasing an expanded ending DLC and not changing it, it's hard not to think that you are so spoiled.

Anyway I hope to one day see more of these kinds of games. 

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 07 avril 2012 - 03:17 .

[Erixxxx]

I definitely hope we will, but at the same time the industry is watching very closely to what is going on here at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see anything like it for quite a few years.

[BKnight3]

The world will end before we see the envelope get pushed like this again.

[tobiasks]

I really hope we do, but I have my doubts.

[Gill Kaiser]

If they do, hopefully they'll plan the whole story first next time.

[Eain]

Of course. Just not from Bioware.

[Khayness]

When Valve finishes the Half-Life franchise.

[sth128]

BKnight3 wrote...

The world will end before we see the envelope get pushed like this again.

Envelope pushing? Ha!

Go check out The Witcher 2 by CD Projekt Red. The branching there gives you an entirely different act 2 (and act 3 to a certain degree) depending on player choice.

In ME3 all player choices determine is whether or not someone shows up in a mission.

There will be games that do this better and bigger in no time.

[FutureBoy81]

As far as Ambition i dont think the ME franchise can be matched and considering there goals for the project in relation to how many of those goals were achieved i think they (Bioware) can give themselfs a pat on the back, but on the down side with so many expectations and promises there was bound to be some dissapointment i just hope this doesnt deter any other developers from developing a saga of this magnitude in the future ...

[crazyrabbits]

Between the ME3 ending, the Dragon Age II debacle and the recent comments that DAIII will look more like Skyrim then anything else, I doubt this company's ability to carry on any franchise, irrespective of fan complaints and input.

[Demigod]

I hope so but before they do HIRE A CONTINUITY EDITOR!

[Justin2k]

I'm sure there will as this was not the first.

Off the top of my head I remember the four .hack// games on the PS2 were one long story where you could import your save.  The ending was pretty coherent too.  I think it was planned as one game but it was so huge they broke it in four.  Each chapter came with an episode of an anime story that ran along beside the main plot.  It was very well done actually and you were rewarded with certain items, levels and characters if you had played the previous installments rather than started fresh.

I think Shenmue was intended to be the same but Dreamcast had issues or something. Also there is dragon age, but that is not quite the same.

The problem with ME was that they changed the writing staff and things halfway.  The problem with Shenmue was technical issues. 

Sadly, planning releases over 6-7 years, a lot of things can change staffwise and technological wise.

Modifié par Justin2k, 07 avril 2012 - 03:58 .

[BKnight3]

sth128 wrote...

BKnight3 wrote...

The world will end before we see the envelope get pushed like this again.

Envelope pushing? Ha!

Go check out The Witcher 2 by CD Projekt Red. The branching there gives you an entirely different act 2 (and act 3 to a certain degree) depending on player choice.

In ME3 all player choices determine is whether or not someone shows up in a mission.

There will be games that do this better and bigger in no time.

Is Witcher a series and will that series end before the end of the year?

[metawanderer]

I hope that there can be more epics like Mass Effect. My biggest worry is that because of the internet backlash you will see less games like Mass Effect and more 4-8 hour FPS because developers are too worried about angering the fanbase.

[Erixxxx]

Justin2k wrote...

Sadly, planning releases over 6-7 years, a lot of things can change staffwise and technological wise.

A lot of people tend to forget this one crucial fact. Nothing in this world is static. What seemed to work well almost a decade ago can turn out to be utterly impossible just a few years later. The amount of variables factoring into making something like this is astounding. The fact that they even managed to finish what they set out to do is one hell of an accomplishment.

[Justin2k]

Thing about .Hack though was if you picked up the third game, you really wouldn't have a clue what was going on.  They wouldn't get many sales from outside the fanbase, it would be pointless marketing it because anyone who wanted it knew all about it and picked it up on release.

Mass Effect tried to make sure each game catered to someone who had just picked the game up. This disappoints the people who have played one and two and just want three to continue their story rather than go over dead ground and things.

I think if you are going to make a multi-part game you should assume that people have played the previous. Do what Shenmue did, and give them a brief prologue at the start. But thats my personal take.  Business decisions obviously come into it, and Bioware maybe sold more copies this way, who knows?

And yes Erixxx, Shenmue's future capsized when the Dreamcast did.  No fault of the game or the team.  Just simply things out of their control happened in the gaming industry which killed off their plans.

Modifié par Justin2k, 07 avril 2012 - 04:07 .

[WizenSlinky0]

The current game market is not in a state that will allow truly ambitious projects with a potentially small profit margin (due to the high cost of budgets in making them actually live up to the ambitions of the team). It's stagnated for the most part. Playing it safe and trying to churn out what people will buy.

Maybe at some point we'll see another group willing to put it all down and make a truly epic series of games. Maybe.

But it won't be today. And it won't be tomorrow.

[duckley]

Not sure anyone would want to - - the criticism would be very discouraging... people get too invested.

[Khayness]

Opsrbest wrote...

While CDPR gets credit for designing the games well they are using pre created work. To say that they have done anyting revolutionary to the industry as a means or modality is being fasecious. When they manage to do it with there own creative works then maybe your statement will stand true. But for now it's doesn't.

So KotOR has less value as a game because it's based on the Star Wars IP?

[MassEffect762]

Yeah maybe when technology makes programing stupid easy/cheap and a competent, passionate team with a desire to create a masterpiece comes along.

*Grabs a Snickers*

Modifié par MassEffect762, 07 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[kalle90]

Wish we had better. When they hyped ME1 with "OMG your decisions will matter in the sequels" I never thought it would end up being simple "if character X isn't there, there will be character Y who is practically the same"

Anyway with everyone going "OMG COD and Angry Birds sell better than our epics" I doubt there's much incentive atleast for those after profit instead of artistic in... passion.

[Heather Cline]

They should have lived up to their promises. If they planned several different endings that varied wildly they should have delivered. They shouldn't have put in a Deus Ex Machina ending like they did. They've done epic endings before, this... this was not even an attempt it was a whimper.

They say they did an epic ending but they did not. In fact like Justin2k said that if you are going to make a trilogy you should keep to it being a trilogy and not try to make it accessible to people who never played a previous installment of the trilogy before.

Good trilogies like Xenosaga was one of those. If you played the third game you wouldn't know what was really going on without playing the first two. Fact is they failed in that regard right there.

Next is the so called ending. They could have easily created multiple canned endings that you earned through decisions, choices and what not leading up to several different outcomes. Instead we didn't even get that.

They did that with DA:O sure it was roughly 4 different endings. Ending 1 had your warden die, ending two had the warden survive at the expense of Alistair. Ending 3 warden survived at the expense of Loghain and friendship with Alistair, ending 4 warden survived due to dark ritual Loghain survived if alienated Alistair, or Alistair survived if Loghain died at the landsmeet.

Sure it's not 16 different endings like the game guide for ME3 stated but the fact was they did give you multiple endings with your choices actually affecting the outcome.

They dropped the ball so far down a hole that they can never get it out. If they want to try for something then they better well not hype it up and fail to deliver. Instead try for it and say nothing at all. Lying to your fans and your financial supporters is just a bad business move overall.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 07 avril 2012 - 04:10 .

[sth128]

Opsrbest wrote...

While CDPR gets credit for designing the games well they are using pre created work. To say that they have done anyting revolutionary to the industry as a means or modality is being fasecious. When they manage to do it with there own creative works then maybe your statement will stand true. But for now it's doesn't.

So your counter-argument is that CDPR doesn't compare to Bioware because they planned out their story-arc before they started production as oppose to say, switching genre and plot in the middle of the trilogy then hastily insert a nonsensical ending to engage speculation?

You clearly haven't read the novels if you think The Witcher franchise follows some "pre created work" (I think you meant "established works"). Did you really think the novels branch off into different story arcs where Geralt sides with different factions simultaneously and CDPR just copy-pasta whatever was on the pages?

BTW, "facetious". If you want to use big words, at least get the spelling right.

Modifié par sth128, 07 avril 2012 - 04:14 .