25 réponses à ce sujet

[warriorrc]

a to d reminded me of skyrim

[coles4971]

I hope nobody burns me at a stake for saying this, but I found the Fable 3 minigames for making money pretty fun, like I don't have to go in to some cave and fight monsters just to get a bit of cash.

[ianvillan]

I liked the murder investigation in KOTOR you had to speak to different people to find out what happened and you could place the blame on different people. or the Trial on Manan you had to defend someone for murder.

[Lilaeth]

Basically quests that require you to use your brain/non-combat skills, or even crafting abilities, would be good. The constant killing does get a bit much sometimes. One of my friends stopped playing because she couldn't stand it.

[Mmw04014]

coles4971 wrote...

I hope nobody burns me at a stake for saying this, but I found the Fable 3 minigames for making money pretty fun, like I don't have to go in to some cave and fight monsters just to get a bit of cash.

I liked them too, but I don't think they fit this franchise. Dragon Age and Fable are very different kinds of RPG's. One is very action driven when it comes to gameplay so it fits to have an "action" type of minigame in regards to money. Dragon Age isn't like this. It's based heavily on stats and numbers to determine outcomes. Any kind of gameplay component that is dependant on how quick we can click the mouse wheel doesn't really fit.

I'm hoping they bring back skills. I liked being able to talk my way out of situations with a persuasion check. They could also make sneaking a skill where, anyone could do it, but you have less of a chance getting caught the more you invest in the sneaking skill.

[coles4971]

Mmw04014 wrote...

coles4971 wrote...

I hope nobody burns me at a stake for saying this, but I found the Fable 3 minigames for making money pretty fun, like I don't have to go in to some cave and fight monsters just to get a bit of cash.

I liked them too, but I don't think they fit this franchise. Dragon Age and Fable are very different kinds of RPG's. One is very action driven when it comes to gameplay so it fits to have an "action" type of minigame in regards to money. Dragon Age isn't like this. It's based heavily on stats and numbers to determine outcomes. Any kind of gameplay component that is dependant on how quick we can click the mouse wheel doesn't really fit.

I'm hoping they bring back skills. I liked being able to talk my way out of situations with a persuasion check. They could also make sneaking a skill where, anyone could do it, but you have less of a chance getting caught the more you invest in the sneaking skill.

I'm sure there's a way to put together some (non plot essential) minigame without it being as ... laid back ... as Fable. I mean it's a fun game, but it's very casual - DA is much more of a hardcore RPG versus Fable.

Though when it comes to persuasion, I think in most cases actually, that Bioware shouldn't use skill checks at all. I mean sure, if they stick with the personality system then they could have certain moments where a certain type of personality is a prerequisite to unlocking some different dialogue, but I'm hoping Bioware can pull off things more like the Landsmeet; at the Landsmeet, rather than it being "(persuade) Loghain sucks!" you actually had to carefully choose your dialogue so as to hit the right chords among the nobility. B*tching about Loghain retreating at Ostagar wouldn't really endear you to the nobles, whereas when you brought up things like the slavery in the Alienage, you would win a bit of support. It was also not just a win-lose situation, depending on what you'd done prior to the Landsmeet and what dialogue you chose, you could win practically zero support (besides who you already had), some support, a 50-50 split or it could be overwhelmingly in your favour, which resulted in the ensuing scene either breaking out in to full blown combat or straight to the duel with Loghain.

Maybe Bioware don't have to pull something elaborate like that, but I'd quite like if the dialogue followed less of a good-neutral-bad path, and more of an option 1-2-3 approach, otherwise what normally happens (at least with me) since I have a giant gamer conscience, is I end up picking all of the "good" dialogue, rather than branching out and picking other things.

[Mmw04014]

coles4971 wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

coles4971 wrote...

I hope nobody burns me at a stake for saying this, but I found the Fable 3 minigames for making money pretty fun, like I don't have to go in to some cave and fight monsters just to get a bit of cash.

I liked them too, but I don't think they fit this franchise. Dragon Age and Fable are very different kinds of RPG's. One is very action driven when it comes to gameplay so it fits to have an "action" type of minigame in regards to money. Dragon Age isn't like this. It's based heavily on stats and numbers to determine outcomes. Any kind of gameplay component that is dependant on how quick we can click the mouse wheel doesn't really fit.

I'm hoping they bring back skills. I liked being able to talk my way out of situations with a persuasion check. They could also make sneaking a skill where, anyone could do it, but you have less of a chance getting caught the more you invest in the sneaking skill.

I'm sure there's a way to put together some (non plot essential) minigame without it being as ... laid back ... as Fable. I mean it's a fun game, but it's very casual - DA is much more of a hardcore RPG versus Fable.

Though when it comes to persuasion, I think in most cases actually, that Bioware shouldn't use skill checks at all. I mean sure, if they stick with the personality system then they could have certain moments where a certain type of personality is a prerequisite to unlocking some different dialogue, but I'm hoping Bioware can pull off things more like the Landsmeet; at the Landsmeet, rather than it being "(persuade) Loghain sucks!" you actually had to carefully choose your dialogue so as to hit the right chords among the nobility. B*tching about Loghain retreating at Ostagar wouldn't really endear you to the nobles, whereas when you brought up things like the slavery in the Alienage, you would win a bit of support. It was also not just a win-lose situation, depending on what you'd done prior to the Landsmeet and what dialogue you chose, you could win practically zero support (besides who you already had), some support, a 50-50 split or it could be overwhelmingly in your favour, which resulted in the ensuing scene either breaking out in to full blown combat or straight to the duel with Loghain.

Maybe Bioware don't have to pull something elaborate like that, but I'd quite like if the dialogue followed less of a good-neutral-bad path, and more of an option 1-2-3 approach, otherwise what normally happens (at least with me) since I have a giant gamer conscience, is I end up picking all of the "good" dialogue, rather than branching out and picking other things.

I forgot about the Landsmeet. Yeah, that was a great way to make your dialogue choices matter. I don't know how that would work with a dialogue wheel though. It's been pretty ingrained that top=good and bottom=bad. Add the tone icons and it becomes less about thinking about what works best and more about clicking all the good options. Ideally, I'd like a balance, I want persuasion checks because some people are just better at schmoosing, or what have you. I loved giving my human nobles full persuasion because it made sense, while I didn't to my dwarf commoners.

[Pasquale1234]

Mmw04014 wrote...

I'm hoping they bring back skills. I liked being able to talk my way out of situations with a persuasion check. They could also make sneaking a skill where, anyone could do it, but you have less of a chance getting caught the more you invest in the sneaking skill.

I agree - and having options to try either persuasion or intimidation (which was based on a different stat - strength for warriors, magic for mages, I think) would be delightful.

I liked the idea of "How to Frame a Templar" because there was no combat involved.

[Giltspur]

Mysteries: KOTOR had the witnessed shooting that involved talking to observers.  It also had another mystery along with a trial.
For DA3: It'd be kind of cool to have a Rashomon quest where your party members are the witnesses and all their stories are different and you have to decide what you believe happened.
================
Interrogation: DA2 has one regarding the mine.  ME2 has one with Thane.  TOR has one regarding an accused separatist.
For DA3: Interrogations are cool because they present a moral dilemma.  The one in TOR was too black and white, though.  The antagonistic character wasn't presently in an interesting manner.  He was just a dumb thug.  I'd rather there be tough decisions and the threat of consequences either way instead of "Obvious Light Side/Paragon, pat self on back".
=================
Intelligence Gathering: We get this in ME2 on Samara's quest and it was great. 
For DA3: A "masquerade" setting in Orlais would be a chance to do something like this.  One cool thing about a masquerade is that it may leave you wondering who you talked to and that can be in your head as you encounter others later unmasked.  So that could present decisions when making dialogue choices down the road.
=================
Theft: DAO has them during Crime Wave quests.
For DA3: Stealing is cool when it's a way to solve a quest.  For example, in Skyrim you can steal an object from someone and have it become an option in conversation that helps you "win a persuade check" basically.
=================
Spying: We get to spy on people in ME2 during one of Thane's quests.  Following people and not getting detected while revealing plot details is cool.  DA2 also had this during one of Aveline's quests.
For DA3: Pretty straight forward.  Having a stealth option for spying on someone and then using that information or finding out where someone is is cool in and of itself.
=================
Skillful Conversation
DAO: There's a knight you have to get a sword from. You can use herbalism, stealing or intimidation to get it.  These sorts of conversations are cool.
DA3: Do that again!  Skill-based conversation checks are cool.  But...you don't actually need skills.  It can be personality checks.  Or class checks.  Or specialization checks.  Or just explicit choices.  Sometimes making the choice you want to make is cooler than needing a skill to make that choice light up.  It just depends!
Deus Ex: Sometimes you might have to...say...negotiate a hostage crisis.  And you have to decide between options like humliate, reason and empathize.  These are cooler tones/intentions in some contexts than Nice, Sarcastic and Aggressive.  
DA3: It'd be nice to have more means of communicating than what we had in DA2 since DA2 felt like flavor choices as opposed to actual choices that can be used to resolve problems in conversation.
=================
Guilds
I've always really liked guild quests in Elder Scrolls games.  Having "guild quests" for classes would be cool.  Having to advance in a guild or side with some faction to unlock access to specialization training would be cool.
=================
Strongholds and Keep Management
Awakening: Worrying about how different factions will react to how you judge criminals?  Cool.  Finding out how to deal with someone working in your court against you?  Also cool.  Fortifying a building through questing and having that impact later defense of said building?  Further coolness.  Making decisions with limited money and seeing consequences of if you favored nobles, traders or farmers?  Yep, cool.
=================
Plays and Performances
Final Fantasy III had the Opera House.  Jade Empire also had a scene you had to learn parts for.  Skyrim has something like this in Bard's College.  For that matter, Amalur has something not quite like that but along those lines.  Reconstructing a story can be fun.  Especially if something goes wrong during the performance or if your choices about how to construct have consequences.

Modifié par Giltspur, 07 avril 2012 - 06:21 .

[HanErlik]

For a satisfying non-combat quest we need lots of non combat skills (FO:NV) or a challenging dialogue system (DE:HR). I don't think Bioware will provide us either of them. Hence, all we will do in non-combat quests in DA3 is finding a bad man and persuade or intimidate him via picking blue or red line. This is the way of Bioware lads.

Modifié par HanErlik, 07 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[caradoc2000]

Giltspur wrote...

Intelligence Gathering: We get this in ME2 on Samara's quest and it was great. 
For DA3: A "masquerade" setting in Orlais would be a chance to do something like this.

There was something similar in MotA.

[esper]

HanErlik wrote...

For a satisfying non-combat quest we need lots of non combat skills (FO:NV) or a challenging dialogue system (DE:HR). I don't think Bioware will provide us either of them. Hence, all we will do in non-combat quests in DA3 is finding a bad man and persuade or intimidate him via picking blue or red line. This is the way of Bioware lads.

Actually I disagree, there is nothing challenging in gathering intelligence if you just need a 10 in wisdom for example. I want quest were we have to think and stats based skills are the oppistite of that since it is just: Have enough points = autowin. 

[Pasquale1234]

esper wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

For a satisfying non-combat quest we need lots of non combat skills (FO:NV) or a challenging dialogue system (DE:HR). I don't think Bioware will provide us either of them. Hence, all we will do in non-combat quests in DA3 is finding a bad man and persuade or intimidate him via picking blue or red line. This is the way of Bioware lads.

Actually I disagree, there is nothing challenging in gathering intelligence if you just need a 10 in wisdom for example. I want quest were we have to think and stats based skills are the oppistite of that since it is just: Have enough points = autowin. 

Problem is that anytime a game dynamic relies on the player's skills (instead of the PC's), it becomes less of an RPG and more of an action type of game.

[esper]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

esper wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

For a satisfying non-combat quest we need lots of non combat skills (FO:NV) or a challenging dialogue system (DE:HR). I don't think Bioware will provide us either of them. Hence, all we will do in non-combat quests in DA3 is finding a bad man and persuade or intimidate him via picking blue or red line. This is the way of Bioware lads.

Actually I disagree, there is nothing challenging in gathering intelligence if you just need a 10 in wisdom for example. I want quest were we have to think and stats based skills are the oppistite of that since it is just: Have enough points = autowin. 

Problem is that anytime a game dynamic relies on the player's skills (instead of the PC's), it becomes less of an RPG and more of an action type of game.

*Shrugs*, Autowin skills win are just not fun, and then I don't care if it is rpg or not.

 I would prefer mulitple path to the correct (and multiple path to the wrong) solution if for example we have to, say, solve a murder so there is room for roleplaying failure and sucess.

Modifié par esper, 07 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[Cultist]

Oh, damn, there's a million options for non-combat quests.
From preventing someone's suicide(by talking, hitting before he\\she can kill herself, or using magic) to various "deal with corrupted official" ideas.

[LolaLei]

I think quests that have you negotiate with NPC's through bribe/charm/intimidate/persuade options would be pretty cool, so long as they didn't over do it like DA2 did with the fetch quests. For example: Your PC and companions are on their way to a main quest and catch some kid trying to pick pocket an old woman; you can either let the kid run off, kill him, take the stolen purse from him and keep it yourself, make him hand himself in or investigate further and talk him out of a life of crime... or something like that.

Under cover/spy quests, for example: You stumble across a drunken noble rambling on about his wife cheating on him with his brother, you talk to him and he offers to pay you to catch them in the act. Later that evening you and your companions have to stalk the unwitting couple using various techniques to avoid detection (these could range from silly things like diving into a bush to hide or grabbing one of your companions for a sloppy kiss pretending to be just another courting couple to avoid suspicion, OR you could use more serious techniques like stealth, hiding in the shadows/running across roof tops etc.) Eventually you catch the couple in the act but the wife claims that her husband beats her and offers to pay you double to poison him for her. You then have to decide who's telling the truth and act accordingly, if you decide to help the wife you get an additional quest to either spike her husbands drink with the poison or aid her in leaving her husband. You later discover which was telling the truth through people gossiping about it or through a letter etc.

Puzzle quests like the ones we had in MotA are also good, especially when it requires more than one person to do them.

Fetch quests are also fine, if kept to the bare minimum and are in keeping with the theme.

Modifié par LolaLei, 07 avril 2012 - 08:12 .

[Tragick Flaw]

Love some more intrigue/espionage based quests. Though I found the stealth sequence in Mark of the Assassin to be more frustrating at its hardest part than fun.

Dunno how it would work with a pause based system, but I would love a chase sequence, despite it being suited for a more action based game. Uncharted 3's chase sequence was my favorite part of the game. It happens to be an action sequence, but without fighting.

[LolaLei]

Tragick Flaw wrote...

Love some more intrigue/espionage based quests. Though I found the stealth sequence in Mark of the Assassin to be more frustrating at its hardest part than fun.

Dunno how it would work with a pause based system, but I would love a chase sequence, despite it being suited for a more action based game. Uncharted 3's chase sequence was my favorite part of the game. It happens to be an action sequence, but without fighting.

Oooo a chase sequence, I hadn't thought of that one!

Maybe some sort of road based fight, perhaps your travelling by cart somewhere and you get ambused so you have to use yours or a companions archy skill to shoot your enemies as they approach by horse or foot etc, so it's still a fight of sorts but more like target practice lol.

[HanErlik]

esper wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

esper wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

For a satisfying non-combat quest we need lots of non combat skills (FO:NV) or a challenging dialogue system (DE:HR). I don't think Bioware will provide us either of them. Hence, all we will do in non-combat quests in DA3 is finding a bad man and persuade or intimidate him via picking blue or red line. This is the way of Bioware lads.

Actually I disagree, there is nothing challenging in gathering intelligence if you just need a 10 in wisdom for example. I want quest were we have to think and stats based skills are the oppistite of that since it is just: Have enough points = autowin. 

Problem is that anytime a game dynamic relies on the player's skills (instead of the PC's), it becomes less of an RPG and more of an action type of game.

*Shrugs*, Autowin skills win are just not fun, and then I don't care if it is rpg or not.

 I would prefer mulitple path to the correct (and multiple path to the wrong) solution if for example we have to, say, solve a murder so there is room for roleplaying failure and sucess.

What I meant by "lots of non combat skills" is ability to make non combat builds a la Fallout. Instead of creating a walking fortress, player can spare some points to non combat skills and solve different problems or the solve same problems via different ways. In DA:O, there are some quests which require herbalism, survivor, trap making or poison making. This can be improved in DA3.