232 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

He talks big nonsense about how his wonderful tier list is all about "overall effectiveness." The Vanguard isn't slowing down against any faction. The Asari Adept is off the walls awesome at two factions and good at another. And yet ALL INFILTRATORS (not just the Salarian) get special treatment at the top of his list. Huh?

You were talking about the video. I explained why the Infiltrator's score was lower by a significant margin. If they played versus Geth or Cerberus the Infiltrator would score probably higher than the Drell Adept and Human Adept they used. The Vanguard is insane. No disagreement there. I don't think the human and quarian infiltrator are better than the human vanguard or asari adept.

Hell, if he wants to put Infiltrators at the top, taking things that
aren't score into account would actually help the case.  "Score
potential" is just silly when I'm getting 180k+ points with things that
aren't infiltrators.

If you're getting 180k points in a four team game then you have three really bad teammates. Everyone should be between 90-60k +or- 5-10k due to bad luck, dieing, missile usage, etc.

Modifié par strive, 08 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[Sabresandiego]

Arguing about specifics and nitpicking the tiers is pointless. What strive said is basically true. The best classes in the game are infiltrators, vanguards, and biotic explosion classes, the mid tier are the engineers and tech classes, and the bottom are turians/krogans and any type of soldier. The exact placement of classes within tiers isnt that important.

Also, I find the human infiltrator on par with the salarian, although not many others do. I just love the human infiltrator with cryo blast and a claymore.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 08 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[GodlessPaladin]

GP's really rough draft tier list:

A tier: You can't go wrong with these guys.
Salarian Infiltrator
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

A- tier: As awesome as A when in their element, not so hot when not.
Drell Adept (with good biotic teammates)
Human Sentinel (just as good as Asari Adept against Reapers)
Asari Vanguard (vs Cerberus)

B tier:  Almost as good as A, but not quite.
Human Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer

C tier: The rest of the crap.
Human Soldier
Krogan Soldier
Turian Soldier
Human Engineer
Quarian Engineer
Asari Vanguard vs Not Cerberus

? tier:  Needs more testing.
Drell Vanguard
Turian Sentinel
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Quarian Infiltrator

Could probably use more info to add more definition to the tiers, particularly C tier.

You could also call these "almost always super-awesome tier, situationally super-awesome tier, awesome but not quite as awesome as those guys tier, and rest of the crap tier."

This tier list is built upon the following conceits:
-All characters are assumed to be used with a high level of execution, for the same reason that every halfway respectable and respected tier list doesn't take "ease of use" into account.
-With a high level of execution, you will usually win Gold with any class, against any faction.  Therefore, talking about the highest chance of victory seems a bit irrelevant... all of them are something like 99% if people know what they're doing.  Instead, I look at which classes clear out the challenges most efficiently.
-You have access to items that synergize with these classes and use them.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[Volmax]

Salarian Infiltrator
Asari Adept
Salarian Engineer
Human Infiltrator
Turian Soldier

Rest are pretty much gimmick classes. I don't know where the OP gets the idea that Human Vanguard is so good: how many Vanguards have you seen playing Gold? I see 100% Salarian Infiltrator teams every second game, have yet to see 4 Vanguards playing on Gold. I've only ever seen one Vanguard play on Gold, and he equipped a decent weapon.

[GodlessPaladin]

Volmax wrote...

Salarian Infiltrator
Asari Adept
Salarian Engineer
Human Infiltrator
Turian Soldier

Rest are pretty much gimmick classes. I don't know where the OP gets the idea that Human Vanguard is so good: how many Vanguards have you seen playing Gold? I see 100% Salarian Infiltrator teams every second game, have yet to see 4 Vanguards playing on Gold. I've only ever seen one Vanguard play on Gold, and he equipped a decent weapon.

If you ever meet a good human vanguard player, it will immediately dispel all doubts about human vanguards being top tier.

[goofyomnivore]

Also, I find the human infiltrator on par with the salarian, although not many others do. I just love the human infiltrator with cryo blast and a claymore.

I think all Infiltrators are great. They are effective medics, objective cappers, etc. Cryo Blast is basically proximity mine in terms of utility. They both give a damage boost to the big guys and can be used as a stagger/cc on smaller guys when needed. I just don't think Sticky Grenades and 20% universal weight are as good as Energy Drain. If you can carry a Claymore though you don't really have to worry about shieldgate or Energy Drain, but you're also at more risk for taking damage and being staggered.

Modifié par strive, 08 avril 2012 - 02:48 .

[Sabresandiego]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

GP's really rough draft tier list:

A tier: You can't go wrong with these guys.
Salarian Infiltrator
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

A- tier: As awesome as A when in their element, not so hot when not.
Drell Adept (with good biotic teammates)
Human Sentinel (just as good as Asari Adept against Reapers)
Asari Vanguard (vs Cerberus)

B tier:  Almost as good as A, but not quite.
Human Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer

C tier: The rest of the crap.
Human Soldier
Krogan Soldier
Turian Soldier
Human Engineer
Quarian Engineer
Asari Vanguard vs Not Cerberus

? tier:  Needs more testing.
Drell Vanguard
Turian Sentinel
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Quarian Infiltrator

Could probably use more info to add more definition to the tiers, particularly C tier.

You could also call these "almost always super-awesome tier, situationally super-awesome tier, awesome but not quite as awesome as those guys tier, and rest of the crap tier."

This tier list is built upon the following conceits:
-All characters are assumed to be used with a high level of execution, for the same reason that every halfway respectable and respected tier list doesn't take "ease of use" into account.
-With a high level of execution, you will usually win Gold with any class, against any faction.  Therefore, talking about the highest chance of victory seems a bit irrelevant... all of them are something like 99% if people know what they're doing.  Instead, I look at which classes clear out the challenges most efficiently.
-You have access to items that synergize with these classes and use them.

You disagree with my tier list, then you make your own tier list which is 90% the same except for a few nitpicked details. Yes asari vanguards are great vs cerberus. They are just mediocre vs other factions however, which is why I put them where I did on my tier list. All your C tier classes are the same as mine, and all your top tier classes are the same as mine. The only difference is a few nitpicking details minor placements with asari vanguard and drell vanguard and splitting up the infiltrator and engineers.

[GodlessPaladin]

Sabresandiego wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

GP's really rough draft tier list:

A tier: You can't go wrong with these guys.
Salarian Infiltrator
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

A- tier: As awesome as A when in their element, not so hot when not.
Drell Adept (with good biotic teammates)
Human Sentinel (just as good as Asari Adept against Reapers)
Asari Vanguard (vs Cerberus)

B tier:  Almost as good as A, but not quite.
Human Infiltrator
Salarian Engineer

C tier: The rest of the crap.
Human Soldier
Krogan Soldier
Turian Soldier
Human Engineer
Quarian Engineer
Asari Vanguard vs Not Cerberus

? tier:  Needs more testing.
Drell Vanguard
Turian Sentinel
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Quarian Infiltrator

Could probably use more info to add more definition to the tiers, particularly C tier.

You could also call these "almost always super-awesome tier, situationally super-awesome tier, awesome but not quite as awesome as those guys tier, and rest of the crap tier."

This tier list is built upon the following conceits:
-All characters are assumed to be used with a high level of execution, for the same reason that every halfway respectable and respected tier list doesn't take "ease of use" into account.
-With a high level of execution, you will usually win Gold with any class, against any faction.  Therefore, talking about the highest chance of victory seems a bit irrelevant... all of them are something like 99% if people know what they're doing.  Instead, I look at which classes clear out the challenges most efficiently.
-You have access to items that synergize with these classes and use them.

You disagree with my tier list, then you make your own tier list which is 90% the same except for a few nitpicked details. Yes asari vanguards are great vs cerberus. They are just mediocre vs other factions however, which is why I put them where I did on my tier list. All your C tier classes are the same as mine, and all your top tier classes are the same as mine. The only difference is a few nitpicking details minor placements with asari vanguard and drell vanguard and splitting up the infiltrator and engineers.

No, they aren't all the same.  You had all 3 infiltrators alone in your top tier, for example.  Anyways, I don't think rearranging the basic structure of the tier list and moving around various classes to different tiers (even just one!) are "insignificant" changes.

Anyways, I don't think I actually said I had a huge problem with your tier list, just that I disagreed with it.    It's almost like your objection is that I didn't disagree with it ENOUGH. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 06:00 .