232 réponses à ce sujet

[Varthun]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

[Atheosis]

Phaelducan wrote...

Just another reason why having access to stat tracking would be great. I doubt Bioware will ever release information about how many times any one class/race combo has solo'd gold (though I suspect the numbers are quite low).

And apparently at least half of them are by Paladin.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

With enough skill he can do both. 

And with enough skill, a Turian Sentinel with detonations can trump a Salarian Infiltrator. 

Nope.

Providing no evidence to the contrary is sloppy argumentation.

Also: Killing two waves of Husk/Cannibals/Marauders is roughly 3k points. Killing a Banshee is ~2.3k assuming you solo it. A detonating Sentinel can wipe out those two waves in the same time it takes an Infiltrator to kill that Banshee.

I provided no evidence because i've already explained what makes the Infilly leagues beyond most other classes. 
A turian sentinel can not easily handle objectives or avoid death. He has limited damage potential since he can only detonate Biotic explosions and almost no utility beyond Overload CC and has the second lowest mobility making him an easy target. 

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Atheosis wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Just another reason why having access to stat tracking would be great. I doubt Bioware will ever release information about how many times any one class/race combo has solo'd gold (though I suspect the numbers are quite low).

And apparently at least half of them are by Paladin.

Carnifex is actually preferred over the paladin almost universally since it's weight increase. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote... I provided no evidence because i've already explained what makes the Infilly leagues beyond most other classes.

  And ignored all counterarguments which provided evidence to the contrary by arbitrarily claiming that the Infiltrator was "just plain easier" and that measurable things like "speed" and "efficiency" had no meaning to you.

Yes, infiltrators are top tier.  No, they don't make other top tier classes look bad.  At best, they simply have a lower learning curve, since basically ANYONE can figure out how to, say, cloak and revive.

You also haven't responded to my offer to post video evidence of me soloing Gold as pretty much everything. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[Atheosis]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Just another reason why having access to stat tracking would be great. I doubt Bioware will ever release information about how many times any one class/race combo has solo'd gold (though I suspect the numbers are quite low).

And apparently at least half of them are by Paladin.

Carnifex is actually preferred over the paladin almost universally since it's weight increase. 

Err...I was talking about the poster not the gun...

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

[Varthun]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

With enough skill he can do both. 

And with enough skill, a Turian Sentinel with detonations can trump a Salarian Infiltrator. 

Nope.

Providing no evidence to the contrary is sloppy argumentation.

Also: Killing two waves of Husk/Cannibals/Marauders is roughly 3k points. Killing a Banshee is ~2.3k assuming you solo it. A detonating Sentinel can wipe out those two waves in the same time it takes an Infiltrator to kill that Banshee.

I provided no evidence because i've already explained what makes the Infilly leagues beyond most other classes. 
A turian sentinel can not easily handle objectives or avoid death. He has limited damage potential since he can only detonate Biotic explosions and almost no utility beyond Overload CC and has the second lowest mobility making him an easy target. 

Overload CC with any kind of staggering gun (falcon comes to mind) drastically improves a Sentinel's survivability. And warp detonates Tech explosions, not just biotic. The bonus weapon damage from the Turian racial also brings their guns to a very respectable level. While I would agree that he is hardly the superior objective runner, I would disagree strongly that he is "not easily able to avoid death".

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Just another reason why having access to stat tracking would be great. I doubt Bioware will ever release information about how many times any one class/race combo has solo'd gold (though I suspect the numbers are quite low).

And apparently at least half of them are by Paladin.

Carnifex is actually preferred over the paladin almost universally since it's weight increase. 

Err...I was talking about the poster not the gun...

Oh haha ofcourse my mistake

[Phaelducan]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

With enough skill he can do both. 

 i
And with enough skill, a Turian Sentinel with detonations can trump a Salarian Infiltrator. 

Nope.

Hold on now... I've played several matches as a TS and done "better" than SI. Be careful with blanket no statements. Sometimes things just go your way. I wouldn't say that TS is better than SI, but they certainly can be.

[GodlessPaladin]

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Just another reason why having access to stat tracking would be great. I doubt Bioware will ever release information about how many times any one class/race combo has solo'd gold (though I suspect the numbers are quite low).

And apparently at least half of them are by Paladin.

Carnifex is actually preferred over the paladin almost universally since it's weight increase. 

Err...I was talking about the poster not the gun...

I doubt it, there are plenty of videos floating around of many people soloing Gold.  It's not as hard as people make it out to be.

I could post videos of me doing it with a horrendous quality webcam pointed at my TV, but I don't think anyone would want to watch that...

And so I ask for suggestions on how to do it better.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[Varthun]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

And then you discover that your group doesn't currently have a Human Vanguard. Now that you are lacking a tank-esque toon, who fills that role? Another Salarian Infiltrator, according to the tier list. But will he aid your team like a tank toon will? Even if it's just a Decoy?

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

With enough skill he can do both. 

And with enough skill, a Turian Sentinel with detonations can trump a Salarian Infiltrator. 

Nope.

Providing no evidence to the contrary is sloppy argumentation.

Also: Killing two waves of Husk/Cannibals/Marauders is roughly 3k points. Killing a Banshee is ~2.3k assuming you solo it. A detonating Sentinel can wipe out those two waves in the same time it takes an Infiltrator to kill that Banshee.

I provided no evidence because i've already explained what makes the Infilly leagues beyond most other classes. 
A turian sentinel can not easily handle objectives or avoid death. He has limited damage potential since he can only detonate Biotic explosions and almost no utility beyond Overload CC and has the second lowest mobility making him an easy target. 

Overload CC with any kind of staggering gun (falcon comes to mind) drastically improves a Sentinel's survivability. And warp detonates Tech explosions, not just biotic. The bonus weapon damage from the Turian racial also brings their guns to a very respectable level. While I would agree that he is hardly the superior objective runner, I would disagree strongly that he is "not easily able to avoid death".

Tech explosions are inferior to Biotic explosions and although the turian can preform both the Biotic explosion is really the only one worth note unless your on a team with no biotics.
And even with amazing staggering power infillies will still have a lot more suvivability. Cloak is godly especially with shield drain. 
The Weapon damage from cloak>>>>>>Turian racial passive. 

and by "Not easily able to avoid death" i mean it's harder for him to avoid death than other classes that can roll/dodge, not that Turian sentinels are an assured casualty.

[GodlessPaladin]

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

[Varthun]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Tech explosions are inferior to Biotic explosions and although the turian can preform both the Biotic explosion is really the only one worth note unless your on a team with no biotics.
And even with amazing staggering power infillies will still have a lot more suvivability. Cloak is godly especially with shield drain. 
The Weapon damage from cloak>>>>>>Turian racial passive. 

and by "Not easily able to avoid death" i mean it's harder for him to avoid death than other classes that can roll/dodge, not that Turian sentinels are an assured casualty.

I am afraid I will just have to disagree with you then. I can see why you would believe that, but even your own argumentation leads me to a different conclusion than the one you have found.

[Varthun]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

The only situation I have been able to avoid with dodge and been unable to replicate on a Turian Sentinel is dodging Brute swings.

[Apl_Juice]

Varthun wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

The only situation I have been able to avoid with dodge and been unable to replicate on a Turian Sentinel is dodging Brute swings.

How about Geth Missiles? Or Banshee Warps?

[Phaelducan]

Varthun wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

The only situation I have been able to avoid with dodge and been unable to replicate on a Turian Sentinel is dodging Brute swings.

Can just run to the side when they get  close. Shrug, you don't really waste any more time than you would by dodging. Either way you have to reorientate your firing line.

Thing about TS which make then useful is that everyone can trigger off you and vice-versa. Lots of Shields, and can strip defenses quickly against any faction.

[Varthun]

Apl_J wrote...

Varthun wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

The only situation I have been able to avoid with dodge and been unable to replicate on a Turian Sentinel is dodging Brute swings.

How about Geth Missiles? Or Banshee Warps?

Sliding in to cover, or even just doing a quick side step wil cause them to crash in to walls.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well just Just wouldn't be considered perfect because the dps would be lower. By a perfect team i tried to assemble the top damage dealers(the biotics) and someone who can handle everything else(The salarian). The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty but the "Perfect" team would beat their time score by a long shot and be able to cover all bases of exceeding areas of gameplay. The infilly team would not be able to meet the "perfect" teams Dps but would have a lot more survivability and ease with the match overall. 

Note:That if you removed the Salarian from the perfect team and replace it with lets say a human engineer it would not be able to preform at any where near the perfect teams level. Where as if you removed one of the adepts/vanguard the team could still do very well and be competitive with the perfect team. The infillies are at the top of the tier list because they fufill most roles but not all. as i have mentioned before even the epic weapon damage they have is not equal to biotic explosions. so infillies are not >all in all categories. But rather > all in most categories. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Apl_J wrote...

Varthun wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

The only situation I have been able to avoid with dodge and been unable to replicate on a Turian Sentinel is dodging Brute swings.

How about Geth Missiles? Or Banshee Warps?

Or even just plain maneuvering potential?  It makes corners so much less of a hassle.  Also I like to roll off of edges instead of climbing down ladders the old fashioned way.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:20 .

[LinksOcarina]

Salarians are pretty much OP over all of the other classes, they are the only alien group that can pretty much solo gold without much trouble.

I feel the Soldiers class is really under-utilized in the end though, especially Humans.

[Varthun]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Varthun wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I've never been really impressed by the Turian Sentinel. Then again, I haven't really tested him out thoroughly either. I never really saw a reason I'd want to have Overload over Throw, or why having a few extra points of shields would compensate for not being able to roll.

The only situation I have been able to avoid with dodge and been unable to replicate on a Turian Sentinel is dodging Brute swings.

How about Geth Missiles? Or Banshee Warps?

Or even just plain maneuvering potential?  It makes corners so much less of a hassle.  Also I like to roll off of edges instead of climbing down ladders the old fashioned way.

You can sprint down every ledge except that one on Tuchanka. Where the ladder takes up the whole hole in the facing. At the top of the ramp thingy.

[Atheosis]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Just another reason why having access to stat tracking would be great. I doubt Bioware will ever release information about how many times any one class/race combo has solo'd gold (though I suspect the numbers are quite low).

And apparently at least half of them are by Paladin.

Carnifex is actually preferred over the paladin almost universally since it's weight increase. 

Err...I was talking about the poster not the gun...

I doubt it, there are plenty of videos floating around of many people soloing Gold.  It's not as hard as people make it out to be.

I could post videos of me doing it with a horrendous quality webcam pointed at my TV, but I don't think anyone would want to watch that...

And so I ask for suggestions on how to do it better.

I know there are.  I also know that every one I've seen has been with an Infiltrator of one kind or another.  I still don't get how people put up with the tedium of running around kiting everything all day, to say nothing of the difficulty.  But when you say you've Soloed Gold with certain classes I just have a hard time believing it.  Not that you could stay alive in general so much as how on earth you could achieve objectives other than kill objectives.  I mean capturing points leaves you vulnerable for quite some time, and certain points tend to get blocked off by enemies, while the open area hacking objectives with swarms of elite enemies pooring from everywhere just seems beyond comprehension to me with all but a couple classes.  And on top of that you are also fighting the timer. 

So please upload a video, no matter how crappy, of you soloing with classes other than the SI.  I especially want to see a Soldier solo run.