232 réponses à ce sujet

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Salarians are pretty much OP over all of the other classes, they are the only alien group that can pretty much solo gold without much trouble.

I feel the Soldiers class is really under-utilized in the end though, especially Humans.

The human/Turian soldier were very very good before the falcon nerf. and had a lot more scoring potential and utility. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well

  By what standard!? Your arbitrary say-so?  You've repeatedly rejected any actual measurable factor, such as completion time, in favor of just arbitrarily claiming that it's "easier."

The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty

  How exactly do you imagine it's "less difficult" to sit in a wave 10 hacking circle of gold reapers in a disadvantageous spot with four infiltrators than with a biotic strike team that makes banshees evaporate before they know what hit them and all aggression being directed to a nigh-immortal lightning tank who cannot be grabbed thanks to drell?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:28 .

[Apl_Juice]

I've never seen anyone sidestep ANY attack without Adrenaline Mods, other than Drell characters.

That's extremely fishy to me.

And if your argument is that cover's available to quickly hop to, why aren't you already on it in the first place?

[Varthun]

Apl_J wrote...

I've never seen anyone sidestep ANY attack without Adrenaline Mods, other than Drell characters.

That's extremely fishy to me.

And if your argument is that cover's available to quickly hop to, why aren't you already on it in the first place?

I would be in the cover. You were the one suggesting I was in a position to be hit by a rocket.

Also: If you know the timings of enemy attacks, side stepping is a lot easier than it looks.

Modifié par Varthun, 07 avril 2012 - 08:29 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Apl_J wrote...

I've never seen anyone sidestep ANY attack without Adrenaline Mods, other than Drell characters.

    I am going to just assume you're making a bad joke.

If not, the fact that you are playing with people who do not know how to dodge does not mean that people who know how to dodge don't exist.  I dodge all the time, whether it's with a human roll, the awesome asari dodges, or timing ability use right (such as biotic charging through attacks).

As to why I'm not already in cover, it's partly because cover is all sticky and restrictive and awkward to pop shot out of.  And it's partly because something just snuck up behind me aahhh!  And it's partly because I'm extremely aggressive and am storming or charging around the map to identify and kill targets as fast as humanly possible.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[Atheosis]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well just Just wouldn't be considered perfect because the dps would be lower. By a perfect team i tried to assemble the top damage dealers(the biotics) and someone who can handle everything else(The salarian). The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty but the "Perfect" team would beat their time score by a long shot and be able to cover all bases of exceeding areas of gameplay. The infilly team would not be able to meet the "perfect" teams Dps but would have a lot more survivability and ease with the match overall. 

Note:That if you removed the Salarian from the perfect team and replace it with lets say a human engineer it would not be able to preform at any where near the perfect teams level. Where as if you removed one of the adepts/vanguard the team could still do very well and be competitive with the perfect team. The infillies are at the top of the tier list because they fufill most roles but not all. as i have mentioned before even the epic weapon damage they have is not equal to biotic explosions. so infillies are not >all in all categories. But rather > all in most categories. 

I see absolutely no reason that team would need an Infiltrator.  Assuming every player was as good as you seem to be assuming your Infiltrator players are.  I mean a Human Engineer certainly wouldn't be better or even as good, but I can certainly think of better fits for that team than an Infiltrator.  Namely another biotic.  Infiltrators don't help biotic teams with their ability to revive and capture nearly as much as they hurt them by preventing them from reaching biotic critical mass.  On a team like that an Infiltrator becomes a drag on the team like any other non-biotic (though to a lesser degree than a Soldier obviously).

[Atheosis]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

I've never seen anyone sidestep ANY attack without Adrenaline Mods, other than Drell characters.

    I am going to just assume you're making a bad joke.

If not, the fact that you are playing with people who do not know how to dodge does not mean that people who know how to dodge don't exist.  I dodge all the time, whether it's with a human roll, the awesome asari dodges, or timing ability use right (such as biotic charging through attacks).

As to why I'm not already in cover, it's partly because cover is all sticky and restrictive and awkward to pop shot out of.  And it's partly because something just snuck up behind me aahhh!

Part of the problem is lag.  Hosts have a much, much easier time dodging attacks than everyone else.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well

  By what standard!? Your arbitrary say-so?  You've repeatedly rejected any actual measurable factor, such as completion time, in favor of just arbitrarily claiming that it's "easier."

The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty

Infillies have the 2nd highest dps in the game other than biotic explosions. Thats measurable
All Infillies have high mobility and are able to doge/roll thats measurable
All Infillies have Cloak. That's Not measurable to other powers but you can't deny the utility cloak holds. It makes objective soloable and Reviving a breeze. With it you can  kite any enemy and always buy yourslef another day to fight. 
Salarian infillies have energy drain which is the best survivability power in the game in combination with cloak.

Infillies are the only class with video proof of soloing gold. (that i know of)  


That's what i base my assertions on. Just because it's not all measurable does not mean it's invalid. 

[Apl_Juice]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

I've never seen anyone sidestep ANY attack without Adrenaline Mods, other than Drell characters.

    I am going to just assume you're making a bad joke.

If not, the fact that you are playing with people who do not know how to dodge does not mean that people who know how to dodge don't exist.  I dodge all the time, whether it's with a human roll, the awesome asari dodges, or timing ability use right (such as biotic charging through attacks).

As to why I'm not already in cover, it's partly because cover is all sticky and restrictive and awkward to pop shot out of.  And it's partly because something just snuck up behind me aahhh!

Read the rest of the argument: we're talking about players WALKING sideways.

Modifié par Apl_J, 07 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well just Just wouldn't be considered perfect because the dps would be lower. By a perfect team i tried to assemble the top damage dealers(the biotics) and someone who can handle everything else(The salarian). The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty but the "Perfect" team would beat their time score by a long shot and be able to cover all bases of exceeding areas of gameplay. The infilly team would not be able to meet the "perfect" teams Dps but would have a lot more survivability and ease with the match overall. 

Note:That if you removed the Salarian from the perfect team and replace it with lets say a human engineer it would not be able to preform at any where near the perfect teams level. Where as if you removed one of the adepts/vanguard the team could still do very well and be competitive with the perfect team. The infillies are at the top of the tier list because they fufill most roles but not all. as i have mentioned before even the epic weapon damage they have is not equal to biotic explosions. so infillies are not >all in all categories. But rather > all in most categories. 

I see absolutely no reason that team would need an Infiltrator.  Assuming every player was as good as you seem to be assuming your Infiltrator players are.  I mean a Human Engineer certainly wouldn't be better or even as good, but I can certainly think of better fits for that team than an Infiltrator.  Namely another biotic.  Infiltrators don't help biotic teams with their ability to revive and capture nearly as much as they hurt them by preventing them from reaching biotic critical mass.  On a team like that an Infiltrator becomes a drag on the team like any other non-biotic (though to a lesser degree than a Soldier obviously).

NO team needs anything. Everything is viable. Some are just more competetive. But the SI the most beneficial due to the existence of objectives which he can make a breeze even with 4 banshees swarming the area and 2/3 of those biotics being very suspetible to being downed. although a 4th biotic may be able to get slightly more damage out of the team set up you'd lose almost all the teams power for handling objectives or reviving. If someone on that team gets downed your suddenly at a huge disadvantage. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
Infillies have the 2nd highest dps in the game other than biotic explosions. Thats measurable

Not true!  Asari headshots will kill faster than they do against Cerberus.  With equipment, it's 3 carnifex shots for Phantoms, 2 for shielded enemies, 1 for unshielded, and I don't care how bloody well you can aim... you can aim better, faster, and more often with Stasis.  And heck, if you're slick, you can do things like catch 4 enemies at a time... stasis, divide a few shots amongst the group, and then charge to send the whole group flying.

All Infillies have high mobility and are able to doge/roll thats measurable

  Congratulations, you're not a krogan.  Why is that relevant in a conversation about how good Infiltrators are compared to stuff like good Vanguards?

All Infillies have Cloak. That's Not measurable to other powers but you can't deny the utility cloak holds.

  But you are flat out denying the utility of comparably useful powers and ignoring all evidence, simply repeating your conclusion that it's "easier."

Salarian infillies have energy drain which is the best survivability power in the game in combination with cloak.

  Decoy is like invisibility for the whole team.  Charge/Nova makes you basically invulnerable and draws aggro off the team far better than even decoy.  A proper biotic explosion strike team is so relentlessly offensive that enemies don't have a chance to respond, and there's always the saying about "the best defense is a good offense."  Or in this case an offense that wipes out a gold wave in a little over a minute.

Infillies are the only class with video proof of soloing gold. (that i know of)

  I've offered to give you video proof, but you keep not responding to that.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:45 .

[Atheosis]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well

  By what standard!? Your arbitrary say-so?  You've repeatedly rejected any actual measurable factor, such as completion time, in favor of just arbitrarily claiming that it's "easier."

The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty

Infillies have the 2nd highest dps in the game other than biotic explosions. Thats measurable
All Infillies have high mobility and are able to doge/roll thats measurable
All Infillies have Cloak. That's Not measurable to other powers but you can't deny the utility cloak holds. It makes objective soloable and Reviving a breeze. With it you can  kite any enemy and always buy yourslef another day to fight. 
Salarian infillies have energy drain which is the best survivability power in the game in combination with cloak.

Infillies are the only class with video proof of soloing gold. (that i know of)  


That's what i base my assertions on. Just because it's not all measurable does not mean it's invalid. 

By "less difficulty" you seem to mean "with greater certainty of success".  Yes the suvivability on infiltrators means that they have a higher chance of suceeding on any given match, but they will take quite a bit longer than a biotic team of equal skill, and to me that seems to indicate greater actual difficulty.  The truth is if we are talking about players so good they can solo Gold, success is all but assured either way, but with biotics it will go much, much quicker (AOE is just so much faster than single target DPS).

[GodlessPaladin]

Atheosis wrote... The truth is if we are talking about players so good they can solo Gold, success is all but assured either way, but with biotics it will go much, much quicker (AOE is just so much faster than single target DPS).

Yes.

I've not noticed a meaningfully greater chance of success with Infiltrators for anything except device objectives when soloing.  I HAVE noticed run completion times under 15 minutes for vanguards with a biotic support team, though.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
Infillies have the 2nd highest dps in the game other than biotic explosions. Thats measurable

Not true!  Asari headshot will kill faster than they do against Cerberus.

All Infillies have high mobility and are able to doge/roll thats measurable

  Congratulations, you're not a krogan.  Why is that relevant in a conversation about how good Infiltrators are compared to stuff like good Vanguards?

All Infillies have Cloak. That's Not measurable to other powers but you can't deny the utility cloak holds.

  But you are flat out denying the utility of comparably useful powers and ignoring all evidence, simply repeating your conclusion that it's "easier."

Salarian infillies have energy drain which is the best survivability power in the game in combination with cloak.

  Decoy is like invisibility for the whole team.  Charge/Nova makes you basically invulnerable and draws aggro off the team far better than even decoy.

Infillies are the only class with video proof of soloing gold. (that i know of)

  I've offered to give you video proof, but you keep not responding to that.

Actually i've responded multiple times and you've not shown the proof i'd love to see it. 

and asari headshots<<<<<<<Cloaked infilly shots. Thats not even close. Especially considering half of the toughest enemies don't even have head multipliers. 

And decoy/charge are both very good powers, i never denied that but cloak is just better. You can't charge/nova while hacking a command post objective or reviving and decoy will distract some enemies but others will look past it and contiue to focus on you. Decoy also dosen't increase weapon damage or allow you to run straight past enemies all the way across the map without the fear of dying. I don't understand why your so mad your class isn't top tier and instead high tier. No ones saying vanguards suck. 

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said you dont need CC. You just dont really need an engineer drone/decoy on a team that has some type of other tank like a human vanguard. Engineers are a good class, the only place they really lack is in score potential and they really arent that far behind. Are they on par withinfiltrators, vanguards, and adepts? Close, but no.

So assuming you have a particular comp, you don't need an Engineer? Of course. But the same could be said in reverse. A team without any kind of tank will benefit from a Decoy spammer far more than they will from say, a third Infiltrator. My point being that, in the micro of the perfect team, yes your tier list is, to some degree, accurate. Thing is, in practice, no teams are perfect.

Salarian infilly
Drell adept
Asari Adept
Human Vanguard

That team seems pretty perfect to me. 

Now that I can agree with.  This is a brutally effective team composition and will tear through reapers like paper.
However, it doesn't support your own arguments that Infiltrator > All.  If that were true, you'd just have 4 infiltrators instead of a mix of classes covering different and complementary bases.

4 infillies would work just as well

  By what standard!? Your arbitrary say-so?  You've repeatedly rejected any actual measurable factor, such as completion time, in favor of just arbitrarily claiming that it's "easier."

The infilly team would have a better chance at getting through gold with less difficulty

Infillies have the 2nd highest dps in the game other than biotic explosions. Thats measurable
All Infillies have high mobility and are able to doge/roll thats measurable
All Infillies have Cloak. That's Not measurable to other powers but you can't deny the utility cloak holds. It makes objective soloable and Reviving a breeze. With it you can  kite any enemy and always buy yourslef another day to fight. 
Salarian infillies have energy drain which is the best survivability power in the game in combination with cloak.

Infillies are the only class with video proof of soloing gold. (that i know of)  


That's what i base my assertions on. Just because it's not all measurable does not mean it's invalid. 

By "less difficulty" you seem to mean "with greater certainty of success".  Yes the suvivability on infiltrators means that they have a higher chance of suceeding on any given match, but they will take quite a bit longer than a biotic team of equal skill, and to me that seems to indicate greater actual difficulty.  The truth is if we are talking about players so good they can solo Gold, success is all but assured either way, but with biotics it will go much, much quicker (AOE is just so much faster than single target DPS).

You can't seriously think 4 biotics is going to be an easier match than 4 infillies simply because it will be faster? The Infillies have slighlty lower dps and no Aoe. thats why it's slower. not because it's more difficult for them. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
Actually i've responded multiple times and you've not shown the proof i'd love to see it.

  Where?  I see no responses to my multiple direct queries to you about how I should go about getting you a video.

and asari headshots<<<<<<<Cloaked infilly shots. Thats not even close. Especially considering half of the toughest enemies don't even have head multipliers.

  Congratulations, you have just proved that math does not matter to you.  You fail.  The end.

Widow or BW vs unshielded Cerberus goon:  1 shot.
Carnifex vs unshielded Cerberus  goon:  1 shot, and it's FASTER, both because of the guns capacity/fire rate and because you aren't waiting for cloak cooldowns.

Widow or BW vs shielded Cerberus goon:  2 shots.
Carnifex vs unshielded Cerberus  goon:  2 shots, and it's FASTER, both because of the gun's capacity/fire rate and because you aren't waiting for cloak cooldowns.

Widow or BW vs Phantom:  2 headshots if you have perfect aim and they aren't using their abilities successfully.
Carnifex vs Phantom:  3 shots, and stasis means you have perfect aim and they aren't using their abilities period.  Oh yeah, and you still get out shots with the Carnifex faster!

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
Actually i've responded multiple times and you've not shown the proof i'd love to see it.

  Where?  I see no responses to my multiple direct queries to you about how I should go about getting you a video.

and asari headshots<<<<<<<Cloaked infilly shots. Thats not even close. Especially considering half of the toughest enemies don't even have head multipliers.

  Congratulations, you have just proved that math does not matter to you.  You fail.  The end.

Widow or BW vs unshielded Cerberus goon:  1 shot.
Carnifex vs unshielded Cerberus  goon:  1 shot, and it's FASTER.

Widow or BW vs shielded Cerberus goon:  2 shots.
Carnifex vs unshielded Cerberus  goon:  2 shots, and it's FASTER.

Widow or BW vs Phantom:  2 headshots if you have perfect aim and they aren't using their abilities successfully.
Carnifex vs Phantom:  3 shots, and stasis means you have perfect aim and they aren't using their abilities period.  Oh yeah, and you still get out shots with the Carnifex faster!

You do realize Infillies can use The carnifex too and will still have more damage than the asari from the cloak bonus that applies to all weapons? 
And do tell how Asari headshots are helpful against Atlases,turrets,ravagers, and banshees. 

[Varthun]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

You can't seriously think 4 biotics is going to be an easier match than 4 infillies simply because it will be faster? The Infillies have slighlty lower dps and no Aoe. thats why it's slower. not because it's more difficult for them. 

Just as an interjection, the rationalization behind using an Infiltrator both in the tier list thread, and even in this thread is because they made the run "faster".

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
Because Infillys can solo gold is a testament to the fact that
it's the easiest class to beat gold with

...I have soloed Gold against every faction with at least one race for each of the six classes.  "Because infiltrators can solo gold" does not mean anything because I (and therefore any sufficiently skilled player) can solo gold with any class.  Including both the Human and Krogan soldiers.

Again, tier lists by convention assume high competence execution and regard difficulty of execution as irrelevant (otherwise, people would care that, say, Magneto's combos are harder to input than Hulk's in MvC3 when constructing tier lists.  But they don't.  Sooooo yeah).

You soloed Gold with a Krogan Soldier?  I'd like to see that video.

I play on Xbox360, how do you suggest I record a video?

Not familiar with how to do it i believe you need something called a video capture card.  or just use a video camera

Or you can just take some pics with a camera of the scoreboard and a few during the match(of wave 10 soloing the objective is the most important pic)

I won't care if it's crappy quality. 

Heres a post responding to your claims of soloing gold with multiple classes.

I'm waiting. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
You do realize Infillies can use The carnifex too and will still have more damage than the asari from the cloak bonus that applies to all weapons?

I also realize that that doesn't bloody matter, it's the same amount of shots, and stasis + biotic charge helps more.

The fact that you can deal more damage is TRIVIAL.  It doesn't actually mean anything.  What matters is thresholds.  I don't care if your Javelin does a bajillion damage, it's not doing anything more to an assault trooper than one well placed Carnifex shot.

And do tell how Asari headshots are helpful against Atlases,turrets,ravagers, and banshees.

Congratulations, you just used a straw man argument, and have further proved that you cannot carry on a logical discussion.  I specifically said that infiltrators took down Atlasses faster, and I also specifed *against Cerberus.*

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 08:58 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

You can't seriously think 4 biotics is going to be an easier match than 4 infillies simply because it will be faster? The Infillies have slighlty lower dps and no Aoe. thats why it's slower. not because it's more difficult for them. 

Just as an interjection, the rationalization behind using an Infiltrator both in the tier list thread, and even in this thread is because they made the run "faster".

The tier list thread was for score potential. 
This thread only asked for the tier list which i provided. 

[GodlessPaladin]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
Not familiar with how to do it i believe you need something called a video capture card. or just use a video camera

Or you can just take some pics with a camera of the scoreboard and a few during the match(of wave 10 soloing the objective is the most important pic)

I won't care if it's crappy quality.

Heres a post responding to your claims of soloing gold with multiple classes.

I'm waiting.

Aren't capture cards expensive?  IF so, I'm unwilling to shell out an excessive amount of money to impress some guy on the internet.

Anyways, if you really don't care about bad quality, I can do that, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's really bad :-\\

I will post videos as soon as I get some time to make new runs.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 avril 2012 - 09:02 .

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
You do realize Infillies can use The carnifex too and will still have more damage than the asari from the cloak bonus that applies to all weapons?

I also realize that that doesn't bloody matter, it's the same amount of shots, and stasis + biotic charge helps more.

The fact that you can deal more damage is TRIVIAL.  It doesn't actually mean anything.  What matters is thresholds.  I don't care if your Javelin does a bajillion damage, it's not doing anything more to an assault trooper than one well placed Carnifex shot.

And do tell how Asari headshots are helpful against Atlases,turrets,ravagers, and banshees.

Congratulations, you just used a straw man argument, and have further proved that you cannot carry on a logical discussion.  I specifically said that infiltrators took down Atlasses faster, and I also specifed *against Cerberus.*

Congratulations you just misused the term straw man arguement.
Your the one who has made outrageous claims without proof, and i don't see atli mentioned anywhere in your last 2 post. 
And the threshold for most enemies that aren't total jokes get more dps out of the widow cloak shot vs asari with a carnifex. Even some of the ones with heads like the prime and the phantom take far more dps from the widow than the carn. your arguement is silly and to imply asari have more weapon dps than the infillies is more outrageous than your solo claims. 

[Varthun]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Varthun wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

You can't seriously think 4 biotics is going to be an easier match than 4 infillies simply because it will be faster? The Infillies have slighlty lower dps and no Aoe. thats why it's slower. not because it's more difficult for them. 

Just as an interjection, the rationalization behind using an Infiltrator both in the tier list thread, and even in this thread is because they made the run "faster".

The tier list thread was for score potential. 
This thread only asked for the tier list which i provided. 

This is not, strictly speaking, true. When Infiltrators and the tier list started coming under fire, the counter-argument produced relied on speedruns of gold, and the fact that the ones currently publicized contained classes from T1-1.2

[Lime The Dragon]

There will never be a tier list because player skill > race/class.