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Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 12:28 .
Modifié par Mysterious Stranger 0.0, 08 avril 2012 - 12:34 .
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
If you'd like, I could do a run with no equipment. It doesn't make a HUGE difference in your offensive capability to have an unmodded carnifex rather than using the rail amp and the incendiary ammo (indeed, that's the way I usually roll, but I wanted to maximize the chances of success for this first recorded run so I could get you guys a video sooner). I have also done it without medigel before, but obviously I made a coupla mistakes (and got hit with a coupla potentially deadly glitches...) in that video. I have never tried without using missiles against Atlasses on objective waves, though. I suspect that would be a significant hurdle if the game fed you target objectives with 4 atlas targets.Atheosis wrote...
Pretty damn good. Though Asari Vanguard
against it's best matchup does not equate to soloing with a Krogan
Soldier. I mean I play a similar build of AV and if I burnt through
that many consumables and loaded up on the best possible equipment, I
could probably get to a fairly late wave as well (I don't think I'm
actually as good as you or anything, but then again I'm almost never the
host which really helps a Vanguard when it comes to charging which
always feels too risky with Phantoms when someone else is hosting).
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 01:20 .
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear
GodlessPaladin wrote...
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as @$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear
But how do you do it? And against what faction? I just can't wrap my head around it.
I mean I even think Krogan Soldiers are better than people give them credit for, but if you are facing tons of Phantoms WTF do you do? The damn things take you out in a few shots, even with a Krogan, and there are a lot of them later on. Not to mention Atlases making leaving cover hazardous...and turrets in the most inconvenient places. And you can't even freaking roll...
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
The
#1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as
@$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a
soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to
clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to
keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.
So
does that mean you need to get super lucky and get no hacking or
capture objectives, just kill objectives? I can't think of the last
time that happened for me in a game.
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 01:30 .
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as @$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.If you'd like, I could do a run with no equipment. It doesn't make a HUGE difference in your offensive capability to have an unmodded carnifex rather than using the rail amp and the incendiary ammo (indeed, that's the way I usually roll, but I wanted to maximize the chances of success for this first recorded run so I could get you guys a video sooner). I have also done it without medigel before, but obviously I made a coupla mistakes in that video. I have never tried without using missiles against Atlasses on objective waves, though. I suspect that would be a significant hurdle if the game fed you target objectives with 4 atlas targets.Atheosis wrote...
Pretty damn good. Though Asari Vanguard
against it's best matchup does not equate to soloing with a Krogan
Soldier. I mean I play a similar build of AV and if I burnt through
that many consumables and loaded up on the best possible equipment, I
could probably get to a fairly late wave as well (I don't think I'm
actually as good as you or anything, but then again I'm almost never the
host which really helps a Vanguard when it comes to charging which
always feels too risky with Phantoms when someone else is hosting).
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as @$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.If you'd like, I could do a run with no equipment. It doesn't make a HUGE difference in your offensive capability to have an unmodded carnifex rather than using the rail amp and the incendiary ammo (indeed, that's the way I usually roll, but I wanted to maximize the chances of success for this first recorded run so I could get you guys a video sooner). I have also done it without medigel before, but obviously I made a coupla mistakes in that video. I have never tried without using missiles against Atlasses on objective waves, though. I suspect that would be a significant hurdle if the game fed you target objectives with 4 atlas targets.Atheosis wrote...
Pretty damn good. Though Asari Vanguard
against it's best matchup does not equate to soloing with a Krogan
Soldier. I mean I play a similar build of AV and if I burnt through
that many consumables and loaded up on the best possible equipment, I
could probably get to a fairly late wave as well (I don't think I'm
actually as good as you or anything, but then again I'm almost never the
host which really helps a Vanguard when it comes to charging which
always feels too risky with Phantoms when someone else is hosting).
Yeah I'm going to guess an Atlas kill objective would be impossible without missles or at least ap ammo when playing an AV. Just not enough time to chew through that much armor with a naked Carnifex. And no, you don't need to do that. I understand that you can probably play cleaner and not use them as much (I saw some clear errors in judgement/movement that I'm going to guess is not the norm for you). I mean your sloppy play is probably about as good as I could ever manage (I think the mentality of having no teammates to back me up would be the hardest adjustment honestly), and I have no problem admitting you are better at this game than me. Hell I'm going to guess you are better than at least 99.99% of all MP players. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Krogan Soldeir thing. Mainly because of it's lack of mobility and the way objectives would seem to rape the class without support. I mean you get a hack objective you are screwed. You get a capture objective you are screwed. At least as far as I can tell.
Some of those weren't errors in judgement. For example, that part where I charged the turret during the hacking objective instead of the near-dead Phantom was a glitch... the phantom was highlighted (but in its little rocket boots animation, IIRC) and it made me charge the turret behind it. You may have heard the muttered cursing in the background. That bull**** cost me a missile.(I saw some clear errors in judgement/movement that I'm going to guess is not the norm for you).
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 01:35 .
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear
But how do you do it? And against what faction? I just can't wrap my head around it.
I mean I even think Krogan Soldiers are better than people give them credit for, but if you are facing tons of Phantoms WTF do you do? The damn things take you out in a few shots, even with a Krogan, and there are a lot of them later on. Not to mention Atlases making leaving cover hazardous...and turrets in the most inconvenient places. And you can't even freaking roll...
For both the human and the krogan, I did it against Cerberus. If you are facing tons of phantoms you kite, blast them with the Geth Plasma Shotgun , and hope that you don't get pushed into a corner with no way out. Phantom swarms can easily become intractable on objective missions, though. Like I said, I didn't win all or even most of my soldier gold solo attempts. Soldier just kinda suck like that.Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
The
#1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as
@$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a
soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to
clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to
keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.
So
does that mean you need to get super lucky and get no hacking or
capture objectives, just kill objectives? I can't think of the last
time that happened for me in a game.
Hacking objectives aren't the ones that get me. I generally have enough time to kite around comfortably. It's device activation objectives where things can get really ugly, since you basically have to clear out an area thoroughly enough that nothing will bother you for the entire time you're stuck defenseless pressing the button. There is a not-insignificant aspect of luck to hoping the enemy will leave you the @#$% alone long enough to press the button, and soldiers just don't clear out phantom swarms fast enough to recover from unlucky enemy spawns / movement patterns reliably.
In fact, device objectives are the only ones that give me any trouble at all while soloing. As any class other than an infiltrator, there's always the risk that some random mook will walk in and make you start the activation all over. Hacking circles don't have that luck element involved, and so I can take them out pretty easily.
Modifié par Atheosis, 08 avril 2012 - 01:39 .
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear
But how do you do it? And against what faction? I just can't wrap my head around it.
I mean I even think Krogan Soldiers are better than people give them credit for, but if you are facing tons of Phantoms WTF do you do? The damn things take you out in a few shots, even with a Krogan, and there are a lot of them later on. Not to mention Atlases making leaving cover hazardous...and turrets in the most inconvenient places. And you can't even freaking roll...
For both the human and the krogan, I did it against Cerberus. If you are facing tons of phantoms you kite, blast them with the Geth Plasma Shotgun , and hope that you don't get pushed into a corner with no way out. Phantom swarms can easily become intractable on objective missions, though. Like I said, I didn't win all or even most of my soldier gold solo attempts. Soldier just kinda suck like that.Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
The
#1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as
@$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a
soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to
clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to
keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.
So
does that mean you need to get super lucky and get no hacking or
capture objectives, just kill objectives? I can't think of the last
time that happened for me in a game.
Hacking objectives aren't the ones that get me. I generally have enough time to kite around comfortably. It's device activation objectives where things can get really ugly, since you basically have to clear out an area thoroughly enough that nothing will bother you for the entire time you're stuck defenseless pressing the button. There is a not-insignificant aspect of luck to hoping the enemy will leave you the @#$% alone long enough to press the button, and soldiers just don't clear out phantom swarms fast enough to recover from unlucky enemy spawns / movement patterns reliably.
In fact, device objectives are the only ones that give me any trouble at all while soloing. As any class other than an infiltrator, there's always the risk that some random mook will walk in and make you start the activation all over. Hacking circles don't have that luck element involved, and so I can take them out pretty easily.
From what I'm reading I take you have to do this on bigger maps that also block LOS fairly well (like Giant in the video). Is that correct?
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 01:44 .
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I believe most of your claims of soloing gold but still don't believe the Soldier claims. i don't see how that could be possible with anything short of 10 medigels.
I only have 5 medigels and 5 missiles. Also, as you can see, I didn't use all of my consumables for the run in the video.
Anyways, the soldier runs were hard. I won't pretend that I got it on my first try like I did for most of the other classes. But I did do it. It might take me a while to get video evidence of a new run since I'll probably have to try like 3 times and solos take a while regardless.
The #1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard. It's always the objectives that get me with a soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to clear
But how do you do it? And against what faction? I just can't wrap my head around it.
I mean I even think Krogan Soldiers are better than people give them credit for, but if you are facing tons of Phantoms WTF do you do? The damn things take you out in a few shots, even with a Krogan, and there are a lot of them later on. Not to mention Atlases making leaving cover hazardous...and turrets in the most inconvenient places. And you can't even freaking roll...
For both the human and the krogan, I did it against Cerberus. If you are facing tons of phantoms you kite, blast them with the Geth Plasma Shotgun , and hope that you don't get pushed into a corner with no way out. Phantom swarms can easily become intractable on objective missions, though. Like I said, I didn't win all or even most of my soldier gold solo attempts. Soldier just kinda suck like that.Atheosis wrote...
GodlessPaladin wrote...
The
#1 reason WHY it takes multiple tries is because objectives are hard as
@$#% for soldiers. It's always the objectives that get me with a
soldier. Especially device objectives, because there is just NO WAY to
clear things out of there really efficiently, and no truly good way to
keep yourself well protected if the game feeds you a hairy situation.
So
does that mean you need to get super lucky and get no hacking or
capture objectives, just kill objectives? I can't think of the last
time that happened for me in a game.
Hacking objectives aren't the ones that get me. I generally have enough time to kite around comfortably. It's device activation objectives where things can get really ugly, since you basically have to clear out an area thoroughly enough that nothing will bother you for the entire time you're stuck defenseless pressing the button. There is a not-insignificant aspect of luck to hoping the enemy will leave you the @#$% alone long enough to press the button, and soldiers just don't clear out phantom swarms fast enough to recover from unlucky enemy spawns / movement patterns reliably.
In fact, device objectives are the only ones that give me any trouble at all while soloing. As any class other than an infiltrator, there's always the risk that some random mook will walk in and make you start the activation all over. Hacking circles don't have that luck element involved, and so I can take them out pretty easily.
From what I'm reading I take you have to do this on bigger maps that also block LOS fairly well (like Giant in the video). Is that correct?
With soldiers, maybe (I haven't even attempted soloing with them on small maps). But I've done at least one solo on each map. Gold reapers on glacier with a human Vanguard was fun
Also, did Reactor with geth and Salarian Engineer.
And when you kite during hacking objectives, do you keep coming back
to the hack location, sit there as long as possible then kite again?
Do they speed up hacking if you are the only player, because it doesn't
seem like you would have enough time to finish the hacking spending
most of your time kiting with some time in the circle. Plus, what about
those brutally open hack locations with minimal cover and tons of
different approaches for enemies?
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 01:47 .
GodlessPaladin wrote...
And when you kite during hacking objectives, do you keep coming back
to the hack location, sit there as long as possible then kite again?
Do they speed up hacking if you are the only player, because it doesn't
seem like you would have enough time to finish the hacking spending
most of your time kiting with some time in the circle. Plus, what about
those brutally open hack locations with minimal cover and tons of
different approaches for enemies?
Watch the Asari Vanguard video: I got one of the infamous "Brutally open" hack locations, and moreover there were 3 turrets covering different corners of it. Basically a worst case scenario, and I did it just fine.
GodlessPaladin wrote...
And when you kite during hacking objectives, do you keep coming back
to the hack location, sit there as long as possible then kite again?
Do they speed up hacking if you are the only player, because it doesn't
seem like you would have enough time to finish the hacking spending
most of your time kiting with some time in the circle. Plus, what about
those brutally open hack locations with minimal cover and tons of
different approaches for enemies?
Watch the Asari Vanguard video: I got one of the infamous "brutally open" hack locations, and moreover there were 3 turrets: One right in the center of the hack location, and one with a line of sight on each side (there was one in the far corner and one looking down the hallway). Basically a worst case scenario, and I did it just fine. I only used one item (a single missile) and the only reason I had to use that was because of the aforementioned targeting bug with that injured phantom.
Sabresandiego wrote...
Tier lists are perfectly applicable to this game, and I still find my tiers to be the most accurate in terms of overall effectiveness and score potential. I used to break down the classes by effectiveness vs each faction, but it was overly complicated for an average viewer. Stasis is the most powerful ability against cerberus, this is not new knowledge, even the devs weakened stasis from the demo to live. Asari Vanguards are suboptimal to several other classes against reapers and geth, and are placed exactly in the right spot in my tier list.
These ratings are only my opinion, and subject to change. The ratings are based on score potential as well as effectiveness. Overall the classes in tier 1-1.1-1.2 are very well balanced with each other, however some classes will vastly outperform others in specific situations or teams.
Overall Rankings
Tier 1
Salarian Infiltrator
Quarian Infiltrator
Human Infiltrator
The infiltrators are the games best class overall, and typically have a very high score against all factions. They are extremely good on offense, very survivable, exceptional medics, and great at capturing objectives. They really have no weaknesses, but they can be outscored by the tier 1.1 and 1.2 classes in many cases such as when on a biotic team against reapers.
Tier 1.1
Human Vanguard
Drell Adept
Drell Vanguard
The human vanguard and the two drell classes are exceptional at dealing massive area damage through biotics. These three classes are all high risk, high reward. Miliseconds mean the difference between life and death on these classes, which is why it is recommended that this be the hosting players class. Inexperienced players may find these classes difficult to master, especially on gold, but once a high skill level is reached these 3 classes can compete for top score.
Tier 1.2
Asari Adept
Human Sentinel
Human Adept
The warp explosion classes are possibly the most powerful in the game when used in combination, due to the massive damage of their biotic explosions. The asari adept tops the list due to stasis, however the human sentinel and human adept are not far behind. The only thing that keeps the biotic explosion classes from being the best classes is their dependency on teamwork for survival, which can occassionaly cause them to become overwhelmed when not backed by teamates. All three of these classes are capable of top score.
Tier 2
Salarian Engineer
Human Engineer
Quarian Engineer
The support classes are what comprise tier 2. These classes cannot match the top classes in score (at comparable skill levels), however they can provide invaluable support which can greatly benefit the team. Setting up decoys/drones/turrets which keep enemies at bay, cryo freezing enemies for enhanced vulnerability, and stripping off barrier and shields are all things the support classes do best.
Tier 3
Asari Vanguard
Turian Sentinel
Turian Soldier
These classes dont do anything which another class couldnt do better. The lack of mobility on turian can be painful. These arent bad classes, just not the best. All three of these classes can be extremely effective, but the same player would do even better with a class from the top 4 tiers. Funfactor is the main reason to play a class from this tier.
Tier 4
Human Soldier
Krogan Sentinel
Krogan Soldier
These are the worst classes in the game. Thankfully, bioware has made a reasonably well balanced multiplayer. All three of these classes can be very effective, even though they are the three worst in the game comparitively. The soldier classes can be quite effective with level 3 equipment and high level weapons, but other classes dont require this kind of setup. Both krogans are in this tier primarily due to how slow they move, and their inability to maneuver. Funfactor and personal preference are both great reasons to play these classes, and none of them are bad. There are no bad classes in the game.
Sabresandiego wrote...
Tier lists are perfectly applicable to this game, and I still find my tiers to be the most accurate in terms of overall effectiveness and score potential.
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:21 .
strive wrote...
Here is what I think of the classes.
Tier 1 (Salarian Infiltrator, Human Vanguard and Asari Adept)
Tier 2 (biotic combo classes and other Infiltrators)
Tier 3 (CC/support heavy classes all Engineers and Turian Sentinel and gun heavy classes, Krogan Sentinel and all Soldiers)
I don't really think there is much difference in classes in a team environment, but I think the classes on tier 1 are the best overall when faced against all three enemies. Like you're not going to see much drop off against their worst enemy nor a big gain against their best, since well they're pretty exceptional all around.
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:24 .
...The guy at the bottom of the score list is the infiltrator, by a not-insignificant margin. So your comments about "score potential" seem a bit strange to me.
Salarian Engineer should be a tier higher than other engineers, and definitely higher than soldiers.
Modifié par strive, 08 avril 2012 - 02:25 .
strive wrote...
...The guy at the bottom of the score list is the infiltrator, by a not-insignificant margin. So your comments about "score potential" seem a bit strange to me.
Well they played versus Reapers (biotics best enemy) and Infiltrators (worst enemy) in terms of effectiveness.
Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 avril 2012 - 02:31 .
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