233 réponses à ce sujet

[cotheer]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

All of those things were said during interviews while the game was in the development process.  While the game is in development anything is subject to change.  You know, because it is in development.

False advertising would be if those things were placed in the commercials after the walking dead or in the banner ads on IGN.  Which they weren't.  Therefore, I hate to say it, but there was no false advertisement.

Not entirely true.
Many of those thing were repeated in interviews AFTER the game went gold.

Modifié par cotheer, 07 avril 2012 - 05:58 .

[AwesomeDudex64]

Katherine wrote...

So your response to fans bashing Bioware is to bash Bioware fans. Nice.

Pretty much. OP, do something more productive.

Modifié par AwesomeDudex64, 07 avril 2012 - 06:01 .

[Anduin The Grey]

Militarized wrote...

I'll say this one more time... it isn't free. Free to play games are "free" yet it is the new business model making tons and tons of money... gee but it's free how are they making money? Might want to reexamine what you're saying.

Free to Play games are rarely ever free, the business model has changed that's all. People can't offer anything mass produced for free unless you you know something I don't?

If it costs money to make, that money has to come somewhere, the more it costs, the deeper the pockets that pay for it. Someone somewhere is paying for it.

[Cadeym]

Modifié par Mouseraider, 07 avril 2012 - 06:40 .

[Yubz]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Most game designers and programmers have to buy food

And most gamers don't, we feed purely on space magic.

Seriously, this whole "Bioware is the poor poor victim and we are such meanies" card ain't gonna work.

[Zhuinden]

FreshRevenge wrote...

 Seriously all this bashing and still insulting BioWare has to draw a line? It is really pathetic that fans are attacking BioWare still? After the fact they have heard the complaints from fans and want to make right by it by providing free content.

I look at this way, Bioware and any other game company needs to make money. They need to make money to pay their employees or have the fans think they are doing it for free? Most game designers and programmers have to buy food and pay for gas and pay the rent, mortgage etc. So the insults to BioWare and EA that they are looking just for the money is pretty much a understatement. If you haven't understood that concept than maybe you are just too young to play this game?

When you go to a restaurant and buy dinner, you don't think it's going to be free? When you go to the grocery store and buy food, You don't think they are going to let you walk out without paying for it, do you?

When you go to a car lot looking for a car, you don't think the owner is going to allow you to  drive off without paying for it?

Now I get that fans are upset by the ending and pretty much have stated the same plotsholes over and over aod over. BioWare heard and trying to solve it the way We get news that they are releasing a extended cut DLC and the resurgenous Pack, yet no seems to be statisfied?

Yet more insults saying that Bioware is just making maps so they can charge us the reinforcement packs, If you haven't notice, but the game forces you to play to unlock the extra content. You also have the choiice of spending money to unlock the content too.

Nothing is being force on anybody? So I just don't get how people are uptight about this?

Actually it would be nice to state how old you are because honestly some of the maturity levels on here haven't even left puberty!

BioWare are working on releasing us content. They heard us. They don't need to pull out a script or leak every little thing they are working on to improve the ending? They actually don't really have to bother doing anything? Nothing!

If you pay for food in McDonalds and they bring you something else that is completely jacked up and the meat is raw and it's not what you've ordered, then they replace it for free with what they're truly advertising and apologize, considering you've paid for it, and they've given you a faulty product.

But in this case, it's not that one or two components are missing, it's that it's a completely different sandwich when you've ordered a salad, and they said they were making a salad. It's not exactly about "making it free", it"s about "making it what they said they would make".

[garf]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Katherine wrote...

So your response to fans bashing Bioware is to bash Bioware fans. Nice.

sorry but I haven't really been a member on this site for very long, but it looks like that way!

It is time to put to rest and just let them work and release the content!

Oh I'm at rest. Not sure if Bioware will like my stance any better though. You should be happy for those fans. as long they are talking. as long as they haven't given up... there is a slim chance to fix your relationship with them.

[Justin2k]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I'll say this one more time... it isn't free. Free to play games are "free" yet it is the new business model making tons and tons of money... gee but it's free how are they making money? Might want to reexamine what you're saying.

Free to Play games are rarely ever free, the business model has changed that's all. People can't offer anything mass produced for free unless you you know something I don't?

If it costs money to make, that money has to come somewhere, the more it costs, the deeper the pockets that pay for it. Someone somewhere is paying for it.

There are free to play games, and they are played by millions every day on facebook and things.

Like Mafia Wars, Farmville.

The thing about them is, they make their money a) through advertising and from selling in game things.

You get a limited amount of time/action in them per day.  You can have more, but thats when you have to start paying.  Want that deckchair that costs 300,00 credits?  Well you can do your farming for 3 months, or you can pay a few dollars and buy credits for real cash.

Like you say, it's business models.  Casuals can enjoy for free, but people that are more into it end up spending more money on farmville than they would buying ME3.

[savionen]

the_geo_law wrote...

No no no no no... He is the games DIRECTOR... and had done TWO previous Mass Effect games. There is no way he would say that without knowing it could be done.

Yeah... most of the quotes are either the producer, director, or a writer. It's not some random PR intern.

[Anduin The Grey]

Militarized wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

All of those things were said during interviews while the game was in the development process.  While the game is in development anything is subject to change.  You know, because it is in development.

False advertising would be if those things were placed in the commercials after the walking dead or in the banner ads on IGN.  Which they weren't.  Therefore, I hate to say it, but there was no false advertisement.

Actually they are, it says on the main webpage that your choices "drastically effect the ending" with "very different outcomes". 

So, you lose. 

Charming counter argument, there are so many outcomes with the Geth and Krogan alone that I am genuinely curious (and interested mind you) about how they are going to pull all this off in the Mass Effect Universe.

[Strange Aeons]

So imagine that you call up the car dealership because your engine keeps stalling. The guy on the phone listens courteously to your complaints and tells you that he understands your unhappiness and they'll fix the problem at no charge even though your warranty just expired.

Then you bring your car in and they rotate your tires.

Ok...

I mean, yes, it was free, and they weren't required by law to do it; but it doesn't really address the problem either and I'm still stuck with a car that doesn't run properly.

I don't know whether Bioware really believe their own company line about the magic of "artistic integrity," or whether this is (as I suspect) just a cynical ploy to defuse the crisis that allows them to claim that they responded to their fans while labeling anyone who continues to object an unpleasable fanatic. Either way, they have never addressed the real substance of the complaints regarding ME3's ending, even to refute them.  For all their bluffing, that speaks volumes about their true level of confidence in their own creation.

Anyone who has been paying attention should recognize that the problems with the ending go far deeper than "clarity" and "closure," yet it's telling that not a single statement from Bioware has seriously attempted to defend the ending on its merits with anything more substantial than a vague hand-wave about "artistic vision." For something so artistic and profound, I'd think the creators would be eager to share with anyone who'd listen the reasoning behind their grand vision and why all of the fundamental problems that people have described in great detail are not really problems at all. That's what I'd expect from an artist who's proud of his creation. Instead, the criticism has been met either with deafening silence, smiley-face corporate PR-speak, or thinly-veiled condescension toward fans who evidently are too dim to “get it.”

If people remain unsatisfied with this situation, it's not because of unreasonable expectations; it's because they’re perceptive enough to recognize that the resolution has nothing to do with the actual problem.

[kleindropper]

One month after release and people are still b*tching as loud as ever. Maybe Bioware should get a clue. I'm personally coming up on my two week anniversary of not touching the game, preferring to go back to the non-depressing ME2.

[AtlasMickey]

FreshRevenge wrote...

I look at this way, Bioware and any other game company needs to make money. They need to make money to pay their employees or have the fans think they are doing it for free? Most game designers and programmers have to buy food and pay for gas and pay the rent, mortgage etc. So the insults to BioWare and EA that they are looking just for the money is pretty much a understatement. If you haven't understood that concept than maybe you are just too young to play this game?

Umm…the main criticism I hear is that BioWare isn't trying to make ENOUGH money because all the people upset with the ending are claiming that they're customers buying a product and that BioWare better act like a good business and bow to its customer demand lol. Weird. I even heard that from some Canadian who works in parliament talking about how his fellow public servants are also upset about how BioWare isn't acting according to its profit motive and I'm like… WTF? Since when did people get all libertarian?

Read some Atlas Shrugged, people. Even the most ardent supporters of capitalism and free markets don't believe in giving in to the mob.

[Trikormadenadon]

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

Dont forget the big one. I wish I could remember it but from Game Informer May or march 2011, they said something along the lines of "Wouldn't it be great if you can beat the reapers and then still travel around the galaxy and live on the citidel? It only makes sense to end the game like that because Mass effect is an amazing universe." Wish I had that issue or knew a link to the quote. =(

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

FreshRevenge wrote...
<snip>

Love the dinner analogy.

I've eaten at restaurants and had a $100 dinners. The wait staff has asked how I would like it prepared. The service was excellent. The food never got prepared the way I asked. I sent the food back twice. The waiter apologized for the meal, and I got a complementary dessert which I said no thanks, gave him a $25 tip for his service, and left.

Not the waiter's fault. It was the kitchen.

Ayn Rand was a fascist.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 07 avril 2012 - 06:08 .

[Kath]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

It's called a strawman, the post you're quoting built a persona of you(based off of your stance or position), then destroyed it. Making them look like they have the higher ground in an argument.

Ah. Well, good to know. I was worried that I what I typed was being misinterpreted. 

[Harorrd]

every one is just angry

[Venturisection]

FreshRevenge wrote...
I look at this way, Bioware and any other game company needs to make money. They need to make money

You got it right and I think everyone is communicating to Bioware that they will be taking their money elsewhere and from the stats it looks like that is the majority. 

They're getting bashed because people are frustrated with their stone walling. They want explainations, Bioware protests they're listening and still they release a clarification it looks like people want a completely different ending but still they're not listening. The Frustration and the Insults are lightly to increase and Biowares income is likely to decrease. Sales of ME3 are already stagnating because of their lack of understanding. 

The real question is "Is Bioware this Ignorant?"

[wintermaul55]

Katherine wrote...

So your response to fans bashing Bioware is to bash Bioware fans. Nice.

I heard you dont to be bashed by fans while u are a bashing fan... so i sent more bashing fans to bash you before you continue to be a bashing fan

[Anduin The Grey]

Justin2k wrote...


There are free to play games, and they are played by millions every day on facebook and things.

Like Mafia Wars, Farmville.

The thing about them is, they make their money a) through advertising and from selling in game things.

You get a limited amount of time/action in them per day.  You can have more, but thats when you have to start paying.  Want that deckchair that costs 300,00 credits?  Well you can do your farming for 3 months, or you can pay a few dollars and buy credits for real cash.

Like you say, it's business models.  Casuals can enjoy for free, but people that are more into it end up spending more money on farmville than they would buying ME3.

I'm sorry, I got confused between the start of your argument and the end, there are free to play games but people that are more into it end up spending more money on them?

And Mafia Wars, didn't their makers set out to make as much money from FB users any way they could. Made their millions, paid their fine and then just carried on? If you prefer that business model better why don't you support it more?

[FreshRevenge]

Senario wrote...

People are angry because they care, many of us are highly invested into the series and the ending is nothing short of nonsensical. Many are angry at Bioware because of their handling of the problem, constant PR speak for a month, followed by pre screened questions at PAX, numerous examples of false advertisement/lies, and an announcement for a "clarification" of their ending which most ppl agree didn't make any sense in the first place and won't make any sense if you try to explain it.

That and hiding behind a veil of "Artistic Integrity" Doesn't really fly with fans as Mass Effect is not a work of art, it is a commercial product meant to be sold FOR PROFIT. I understand the lines between "art" and "product" get blurry. But when a lot of money is involved? It is a Product.

You are free to disagree though, you can support Bioware and their future games and DLC if you strongly believe they are doing the right thing, I personally don't, and Free DLC that doesn't address concerns or even listen to the pages of input fans have made isn't the way to re earn my trust as a consumer.

Take a moment and think about other than your damn self for a moment? BioWare just spent 2 to 3 years making a game.

Within the first month they get people insulting them or saying the ending was bad or nonsensical or illogical. You don't think the people that put in the long hours and nights want to be bash and insulted? That is where the fans become selfish and cruel! They need time to collect the feed back, I honestly think a month is less time they should of gather feedback! So don't try to analyze a situation that you are not involved in. OH let's blame the PR or Bioware or EA.

Yet when you get comments like, oh the game sucks? The ending was BAD. That doesn't do anything for BioWare and don't you think it hurts the people behind the game or were you being too concern about yourself to consider that? It shows impatience!

I get it you are passionate, you wasted your life playing the game. No one forced you to sit on you ARSE and play for countless hours, You do that on your accord! So why bring that up into their faces. I am sure they appreciate it but they don't need to treat you special or serve you better than someone that spends a few hours playing it!

[jstme]

FreshRevenge wrote...
When you go to a restaurant and buy dinner, you don't think it's going to be free? When you go to the grocery store and buy food, You don't think they are going to let you walk out without paying for it, do you?

When you go to a car lot looking for a car, you don't think the owner is going to allow you to  drive off without paying for it?

When i go for a restaurant or go to a car lot and not happy with the meal without flavour or car without a seat ,even after i pay for it i can ask for making another meal as was described in the menu or a car as was advertised per specs.
People even ask for new meals if what they were served was too cold.
Do not go for the analogies, they will not go well with what is established norm in video games world.
As for free - yes they are doing it free. Frankly i had no problem paying for another ending, but since they are just explaining the existing mess i see no reason in the world to pay for it.
Making a product that needs clarification/closure to be added after release due to massive consumer outcry is a failure of a manufacturer.  
Oh, and next time you are in the restaurant and the meal is not to your liking but cook claims that he will not change it after you paid for it due to his artistic integrity - remain calm and be happy with free vegetable salad that according to cook will make you understand the meal better. 

[Militarized]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Well the choices did affect the ending and there were a lot of different outcomes, for all your squadmates and charcters in the universe, maybe not for shepard but has there really been a significantly different outcome for shepard in any game?

No, He killed sovreign and saren no matter what in ME1, He fought a human reaper and went on the suicide mission in ME2 no matter what, and he fought in the battle for earth and activated the crucible to matter what in ME3. (obviously the worst of the three)

No games have extremely unique endings for shepard, what made people think ME3 would I do not know.  There were a lot of different outcomes for all the many storylines in ME3 that your choices affected so they are not lying.  What I am trying to say is false advertising would not hold up in court like a massive amount of people think it would.  If it would hold up in court, some wacky fan would already have a lawsuit.

I will agree that ME1 did not have very different endings base on your Shepard, for me ME2s ending = the whole thing.. who comes out dead/alive, save the base or not? In ME3 it would translate into everyone lives or everyone dies, the devs pick one.. and then you only get to choose to save the base or not. So people did get different experiences, especially emotionally different experiences, in Mass Effect 2... same cannot be said for ME3. 

The issue with comparing ME1/2 endings to 3 is that... the entire point of the ME1/2 endings is to push the narrative forward to ME3, ME3 does not have this problem. They should have been able, like they said they were going to, to tie up a majority of major plot points with the ending based on your Shepards decisions. They don't need to go through every little point, they should have used the "plot endings throughout the game" thing for the minor ones, when I did the Genophage cure I expected to see the results of my decision after the ending.... because I didn't feel like I had wrapped it up, I felt like I had pushed it over the resolution storyarc edge and was waiting for it to settle to see what that resolution in fact was. 

They specifically said, PR talk or not, this is what would happen... your shepards story would be tied up with varying endings based on what you did. There is no getting around that and it's why people are upset, harkening back to ME1 and ME2 that are games based on getting to ME3 to wrap it up is not a valid comparison IMO. 

FreshRevenge wrote...


Take a moment and think about other than your damn self for a moment? BioWare just spent 2 to 3 years making a game.

 

Try 1.5, Me2 was released in 2010 wasn't it? 

Modifié par Militarized, 07 avril 2012 - 06:10 .