233 réponses à ce sujet

[Anduin The Grey]

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

Or bury a greenie inside the mash.

[Averdi]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Take a moment and think about other than your damn self for a moment? BioWare just spent 2 to 3 years making a game.

And they were paid for that work.  Honestly, for the level of product that I expected ME3 to be, I probably would have paid more.

Within the first month they get people insulting them or saying the ending was bad or nonsensical or illogical. You don't think the people that put in the long hours and nights want to be bash and insulted? That is where the fans become selfish and cruel!

No one wants to be insulted.  That doesn't mean that no one should be.  Also, most of the ciricism was directed at the ending more than the people themselves.

But Bioware didn't make ME3 out of charity.  They weren't doing eveyone a favor.  They made a product that they thought could both turn a nice profit, and presumably would provide a finish to the ME trilogy that would garner acclaim and respect.  In that sense, they also were selfish.  I agree that feedback and discourse shouldn't be wantonly cruel, but the idea that consumers have some type of moral obligation to Bioware beyond the money they spent for the game is silly.

Yet when you get comments like, oh the game sucks? The ending was BAD. That doesn't do anything for BioWare and don't you think it hurts the people behind the game or were you being too concern about yourself to consider that? It shows impatience!

The ending WAS bad.  It DID damage and devalue to the entire franchise.  To offer opinions on than this would be dishonest.  And beyond these simple statements, several people have offered more detailed analyses of why and where the endings went bad, which Bioware can use.

And again, why do consumers have some type of moral obligation not to offer honest opinions when those opinions are negative?  Reversing the argument, the ending was incredibly depressing to me, both in itself and through the damage it did to my nostalgic enjoyment of previous games.  That depression is on top of the money I paid both for ME3 and the previous games.  Is Bioware being hurtful and selfish by not taking greater accout of my distress?

[LegendaryBlade]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I'm unhappy with a product. The people producing the product aren't doing me a favor by trying to fix my complains, they're doing themselves a favor by attempting to convince me to keep paying them for things they make later.

really


Right, that free content that they didn't have to work on is such a burden on the wallet.

That free content is basically just damage control and an attempt to regain potential DLC customers.

really

I get it that you are unhappy about the product. Than why go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it?


It has been a full 30 days before they release any information about the ending. The problem is people want a NOW NOW NOW  response from BioWare. 30 days is not LONG!

Because if you back off for even a moment, if you give even the slightest hint of respite. You give the impression that the problem is not as big as it really is.

[Ishiken]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I'm unhappy with a product. The people producing the product aren't doing me a favor by trying to fix my complains, they're doing themselves a favor by attempting to convince me to keep paying them for things they make later.

It's not a gift, not the sort given out of love. It's still a transaction of a sort. And they should be glad people are whining: it's better than them just shrugging and never buying their things again, right?

if you think you are expecting perfection, I got instant newsflush down your drain. Don't expect products to be perfect.

Humans aren't not perfect. You get sick and grow old and then you die! You can get cancer or a virus. You can be involved in a accident. Don't think because someone makes something and demand that product to perfect? If you are not satisfied, you go and make the product your self!

You should work in customer service or in PR lol.

Nobody is expecting a perfect product, however people are expecting a well made product that lives up to all the advertising and statements about the product made by the Bioware team. If you went into a restaurant and you looked at the menu and you ordered a steak. When you got your steak, it turns out that it wasn't steak but a meat patty made from pink slime. Would you complain to the restaurant or would you just eat the slime patty and then keep coming back to the restaurant? Companies should be accountable to their advertisements about their products. They shouldn't be able to tell you that it's A and then deliver B.

[Anduin The Grey]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Militarized wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

All of those things were said during interviews while the game was in the development process.  While the game is in development anything is subject to change.  You know, because it is in development.

False advertising would be if those things were placed in the commercials after the walking dead or in the banner ads on IGN.  Which they weren't.  Therefore, I hate to say it, but there was no false advertisement.

Actually they are, it says on the main webpage that your choices "drastically effect the ending" with "very different outcomes". 

So, you lose. 

Charming counter argument, there are so many outcomes with the Geth and Krogan alone that I am genuinely curious (and interested mind you) about how they are going to pull all this off in the Mass Effect Universe.

This sounds like you have not even finished ME3 yet. If so, finish the game, then you will understand.

Have you actually even played it? The only thing preventing me from playing, not just the whole game again on insane, but every possible mission on insane is the fact that I'm waiting for the patch that will fix the appearance import for my characters, am hoping it will be released with the MP DLC on the 10th but if I have to wait till the end of the month then I will.

[Ishiken]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

Or bury a greenie inside the mash.

And that's why I just leave and won't even take a second meal.

[Jackal7713]

OP I'm not a fan, I'm a paying customer. That said, Bioware has lied to me several times. So as a customer, I'm calling them out on selling a misleading product.

Now if you like being lied to an want to say "oh your so awesome for BSing me." Great, more power to you and your ignorance. But to say oh your just a ungrateful fan is insulting.

[mrderp27]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

All of those things were said during interviews while the game was in the development process.  While the game is in development anything is subject to change.  You know, because it is in development.

False advertising would be if those things were placed in the commercials after the walking dead or in the banner ads on IGN.  Which they weren't.  Therefore, I hate to say it, but there was no false advertisement.

pretty sure a few of those (or others in a similar vein to them) were said about a week before the game out

[Trikormadenadon]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I'm unhappy with a product. The people producing the product aren't doing me a favor by trying to fix my complains, they're doing themselves a favor by attempting to convince me to keep paying them for things they make later.

really


Right, that free content that they didn't have to work on is such a burden on the wallet.

That free content is basically just damage control and an attempt to regain potential DLC customers.

really

I get it that you are unhappy about the product. Than why go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it?


It has been a full 30 days before they release any information about the ending. The problem is people want a NOW NOW NOW  response from BioWare. 30 days is not LONG!

True, 30 days is not long. However if everyone stopped complaining then they would think the whole thing blew over and would not do anything about it at all. Even if they tell us that they are going to do everything Retake wants, it is still a good idea to harp on it so they don't cancel the project because people stop complaining and they think it blew over. To truly effect change you have to keep it up right up to the moment the fix is released, just to make sure they don't let it slide.

[Meltemph]

  

 Seriously all this bashing and still insulting BioWare has to draw a line? It is really pathetic that fans are attacking BioWare still? After the fact they have heard the complaints from fans and want to make right by it by providing free content.

These are all customers, not "fans" if they dont like the product, they can complain all they want.  "Free" will not make up that the ending ruined the setting/series for them.

I look at this way, Bioware and any other game company needs to make money. They need to make money to pay their employees or have the fans think they are doing it for free? Most game designers and programmers have to buy food and pay for gas and pay the rent, mortgage etc. So the insults to BioWare and EA that they are looking just for the money is pretty much a understatement. If you haven't understood that concept than maybe you are just too young to play this game?

This part, is actaully a bit sickening for me to read.  It is not the consumers job to worry about  ANYHTING you just mentioned, and the fact that you are calling people "young" for not understanding your "view on things", is ironic.  It is the consumers job to find a product they want and after buying the product if they felt they were decived or at the end of it recieved a bad product, then they SHOULD complain about it where they can.

Customer feedback of this sort is the ONLY recourse, besides not buying BW games anymore, that customers have. This idea, that customers should get some sick attachment to the employee's of the product you are pruchasing is a broken line of thinking.  You're right they are not a charity, they are a business out to make any amount of money off us they can.  

You can be more concerned with the company more then the product but it is that type of thinking that lets companies do whatever the hell they want and think they can get away with it with no backlash.

When you go to a restaurant and buy dinner, you don't think it's going to be free? When you go to the grocery store and buy food, You don't think they are going to let you walk out without paying for it, do you?

Umm...WAT? What the hell are you insinuating with this?  Nobody is asking to get ME3 for free, what is even the point to this?  You are not even getting the analogy right... It would be like buying meat from the deli, getting home and finding hair on the meat or a part of the meat is bad.  You would take it back expecting to get what you paid for, ALL of the product being edible.

When you go to a car lot looking for a car, you don't think the owner is going to allow you to  drive off without paying for it?

Yay for another terrible analogy...

Now I get that fans are upset by the ending and pretty much have stated the same plotsholes over and over aod over. BioWare heard and trying to solve it the way We get news that they are releasing a extended cut DLC and the resurgenous Pack, yet no seems to be statisfied?

ITS NOT THE CONSUMERS JOB TO MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD.  It is the consumers job to try and get the most out of the product they can and it is the products job(publisher/developer) to get as much as they can get from the product.  It is NOT consumers job to tell BW or EA or whoever, "Eh good enough".

Yet more insults saying that Bioware is just making maps so they can charge us the reinforcement packs, If you haven't notice, but the game forces you to play to unlock the extra content. You also have the choiice of spending money to unlock the content too.

Nothing is being force on anybody? So I just don't get how people are uptight about this?

Oh, so now BW is a charity?  Cause that is the line of thinking you are placing to this.  That they are just doing this out of the goodness of their heart.  Nothing is wrong with them doing this to try and get back in the good graces of people and make money as well... That said, there is nothing wrong with consumers not being happy with that they are offering.

Actually it would be nice to state how old you are because honestly some of the maturity levels on here haven't even left puberty!

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” 
― C.S. Lewis 

BioWare are working on releasing us content. They heard us. They don't need to pull out a script or leak every little thing they are working on to improve the ending? They actually don't really have to bother doing anything? Nothing!

And its not our job to give a crap how hard they are working to try and fix the issue or what they are or are not doing, we dont really have to be bothered to purchase or care about anything.  Consumers can be as satisfied or dissatisfied as they feel the need.

Modifié par Meltemph, 07 avril 2012 - 06:44 .

[Anduin The Grey]

Ishiken wrote...

FreshRevenge wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I'm unhappy with a product. The people producing the product aren't doing me a favor by trying to fix my complains, they're doing themselves a favor by attempting to convince me to keep paying them for things they make later.

It's not a gift, not the sort given out of love. It's still a transaction of a sort. And they should be glad people are whining: it's better than them just shrugging and never buying their things again, right?

if you think you are expecting perfection, I got instant newsflush down your drain. Don't expect products to be perfect.

Humans aren't not perfect. You get sick and grow old and then you die! You can get cancer or a virus. You can be involved in a accident. Don't think because someone makes something and demand that product to perfect? If you are not satisfied, you go and make the product your self!

You should work in customer service or in PR lol.

Nobody is expecting a perfect product, however people are expecting a well made product that lives up to all the advertising and statements about the product made by the Bioware team. If you went into a restaurant and you looked at the menu and you ordered a steak. When you got your steak, it turns out that it wasn't steak but a meat patty made from pink slime. Would you complain to the restaurant or would you just eat the slime patty and then keep coming back to the restaurant? Companies should be accountable to their advertisements about their products. They shouldn't be able to tell you that it's A and then deliver B.

I dunno what you bought but I ended up with a great product, not a flawless product but a great product nonetheless, what car boot sale did you pick yours up at? I only ask because I've seen the same ads and read the same hype and draw little to no similarity in your rationale of false advertising?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The explanation of the current ending should have been in the game to begin with. They should have had information as to what happened to the cast after the end of the game, and what happened to the races that participated in the Battle for Earth at the end of the game. They said they didn't "because they didn't think that the players wanted to know, and wanted to see if we really did want to know." Did IQs among the writers drop? Or were they planning to charge us for this?

LAZINESS. STUPIDITY. Call it what you want. Or did they just plan to charge us for this information? It should have been there. It was simply either greed or trying to be "intellectual" and "artsy". "Fill in the blanks with your imagination." We were told. Well that's a huge blank to fill in.

Sorry, I can't buy this. They sold us a car without a fuel tank. It looks great and all that, but it doesn't go anywhere. So is the fuel tank going to be optional now?

[FreshRevenge]

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

you know how lame this excuse is? Let us just say most businesses or restaunts don't serve bad food! There would be no point in having the restuarant in the first place! Also not a lot of people get to eat at restuarants. So for a person to complain because the meal they just had wasn't up to their standards, Yet when we have countries that we have starving children who would take the food that you complain about to be taken back, they would take it just so they didn't freaking starve to death!

sorry but the people here digust me and I will just enjoy what they will provide and at least they did provide something, they is honestly no point to hold some type of vendetta or grudge!

[Almighty_Hoogs]

deviever wrote...

Nothing awful about holding a company to their promises.

[Anduin The Grey]

Ishiken wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

Or bury a greenie inside the mash.

And that's why I just leave and won't even take a second meal.

Still posting mind you.

[corporal doody]

savionen wrote...

Have you seen any other video game communities? Seriously? BSN is about as civil as it gets.


The situation really is more similar to having a great meal at a restaurant and then there's a turd inside your desert. Asking them to fix the situation or lose your business is not unreasonable. They made a mistake. It's their responsibility to either fix it, or face the consequences.

Are fans just supposed to accept it and buy all the DLC, spectre packs, and new games anyway?

I do enjoy when im sitting in a restaurant and  i see that happen. When i see a person STAND UP and start SCREAMING at the top of their lungs how crappy their meal was cuz the of their dessert. I love it when others join in. Some want their money back for the WHOLE meal. Some just want a new dessert. THE whole time they are saying how messed up the restaurant is. How the dessert destroyed their meal and everyother experience they had at the restaurant. They scream that they will never return unless they get a refund and/or a new dessert. I enjoy when some people in the restaurant say how the dessert was okay..just to see those screaming become outraged that everyone isnt as upset as they are.

I LOVE IT!!!!


what happened to politely asking for the manager....or discussing the matter on the side with civility.

Modifié par corporal doody, 07 avril 2012 - 06:44 .

[garf]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

you know how lame this excuse is? Let us just say most businesses or restaunts don't serve bad food! There would be no point in having the restuarant in the first place! Also not a lot of people get to eat at restuarants. So for a person to complain because the meal they just had wasn't up to their standards, Yet when we have countries that we have starving children who would take the food that you complain about to be taken back, they would take it just so they didn't freaking starve to death!

sorry but the people here digust me and I will just enjoy what they will provide and at least they did provide something, they is honestly no point to hold some type of vendetta or grudge!

No grudge. Just a complete lack of trust.  In the end all you can do is vote with your wallet.

[Fhaarkas]

A lot of fans customers were indoctrinated by BioWare's and EA's hyping of the game. It's a bit like waking up from a nice dream only to face the harsh reality.


Just poking.

[wesr]

And again, why do consumers have some type of moral obligation not to offer honest opinions when those opinions are negative? 

Because consumers have been turned into mindless sheep and taught not to value their money or want quality. They're told that the plate of crap before them is a steak and they'll eat it with a grin even if they knew it was crap.

[Vanguard Of Destruction]

deviever wrote...

Nothing awful about holding a company to their promises.

This. When a company puts out lie after lie, empty promise after empty promise about a game that you are looking forward to, then I believe we fans/customers have a right to be upset. 

Modifié par Vanguard Of Destruction, 07 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[Almighty_Hoogs]

Vox Draco wrote...

Awful? Why?

Bioware should acknowledge that they created a franchise and a hero that sparks so much emotion in their fanbase...it is incredible! And damn what a compliment to their otherwise great talent at storytelling!

And because the love is/was so great towards Bioware...the hatred now is just as passionate. After all, they gave us Shepard and his squadmates, and we started to love them all dearly!

But Bioware seems to have been ignorant about this, and decided to end their saga in the most unworthy, illogical and incomprehensible way you can think of!

Now just add this to the fact that for many "their" Shepard was almost a part of themselves or at least someone they would love to be alike...then you have Bioware literelly "killing" their own fabase in a very cruel and hopeless way...

But I agree that things should settle down after a while, not for Bioware's sake though, but rather for the fans, because it is unhealthy to hate for too long...

Just my two cents on this...

This

[garf]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Ishiken wrote...

FreshRevenge wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I'm unhappy with a product. The people producing the product aren't doing me a favor by trying to fix my complains, they're doing themselves a favor by attempting to convince me to keep paying them for things they make later.

It's not a gift, not the sort given out of love. It's still a transaction of a sort. And they should be glad people are whining: it's better than them just shrugging and never buying their things again, right?

if you think you are expecting perfection, I got instant newsflush down your drain. Don't expect products to be perfect.

Humans aren't not perfect. You get sick and grow old and then you die! You can get cancer or a virus. You can be involved in a accident. Don't think because someone makes something and demand that product to perfect? If you are not satisfied, you go and make the product your self!

You should work in customer service or in PR lol.

Nobody is expecting a perfect product, however people are expecting a well made product that lives up to all the advertising and statements about the product made by the Bioware team. If you went into a restaurant and you looked at the menu and you ordered a steak. When you got your steak, it turns out that it wasn't steak but a meat patty made from pink slime. Would you complain to the restaurant or would you just eat the slime patty and then keep coming back to the restaurant? Companies should be accountable to their advertisements about their products. They shouldn't be able to tell you that it's A and then deliver B.

I dunno what you bought but I ended up with a great product, not a flawless product but a great product nonetheless, what car boot sale did you pick yours up at? I only ask because I've seen the same ads and read the same hype and draw little to no similarity in your rationale of false advertising?

Good for you. There's a whole lot of people who feel otherwise with whole lot of evidence to back them up.

[Namz89]

Yea...we are so awful...for complaining about them still not keeping their promises. For them saying "We are listening" and doing exactly not what people (most) people want.

Really, how can we complain.

[Avarenda]

Helishorn wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

Would you say people can call Bioware a bunch of lairs?

Naw..this happens all the time in a business that produces things. A person, usually a manager or a higher up, makes a staement, 'This product will have xyz feature' to the press. Then the same person comes back to the developers and says can we do this, to which the developers often say, 'Not in the time line or budget you have given us.'

Having worked in such an environment I see the words of, "The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice." as garbage unless the person is actually part of the developmental staff...which he was not.

Just for clarification here developmental staff in this instance refers to the people actually coding the product. These are the real people that in the end make go no go decisions by telling the overzealous bosses that the code will not support such changes in its current state but given more money and extra time they could totally do it.

Casey Hudson was responsible for most of those quotes. He is also the executive producer for ME3. He's the guy in charge of development and actually helped write the end.

So yes, i think it wouldnt be out of line to say they lied.

[Trikormadenadon]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Militarized wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

savionen wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Get a ****ing grip. "False advertisement" is just clutching at straws at this point.

"There will be 16+ unique and greatly different endings."
"The end won't be like Lost or the Sopranos."
"The ending will not be an A, B, or C choice."
"The Rachni will have a huge part in ME3, not only in the course of the game, but the final battle against the Reapers."

...........Yeah, there's like 50 of those.

All of those things were said during interviews while the game was in the development process.  While the game is in development anything is subject to change.  You know, because it is in development.

False advertising would be if those things were placed in the commercials after the walking dead or in the banner ads on IGN.  Which they weren't.  Therefore, I hate to say it, but there was no false advertisement.

Actually they are, it says on the main webpage that your choices "drastically effect the ending" with "very different outcomes". 

So, you lose. 

Charming counter argument, there are so many outcomes with the Geth and Krogan alone that I am genuinely curious (and interested mind you) about how they are going to pull all this off in the Mass Effect Universe.

This sounds like you have not even finished ME3 yet. If so, finish the game, then you will understand.

Have you actually even played it? The only thing preventing me from playing, not just the whole game again on insane, but every possible mission on insane is the fact that I'm waiting for the patch that will fix the appearance import for my characters, am hoping it will be released with the MP DLC on the 10th but if I have to wait till the end of the month then I will.

Not sure why you are getting defensive. Your statement sounded like you were waiting to see how the game turns out, thus I thought maybe you had not finished it yet. If you have finished it, then your response to the other person doesn't really make any sense to me, but that's ok, I don't have to understand everything. Not going to lose sleep over it. As for your first question, do you really think someone would buy the game and not play it at all? You have to own the game in order to post on these forums....