233 réponses à ce sujet

[Kawamura]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

you know how lame this excuse is? Let us just say most businesses or restaunts don't serve bad food! There would be no point in having the restuarant in the first place! Also not a lot of people get to eat at restuarants. So for a person to complain because the meal they just had wasn't up to their standards, Yet when we have countries that we have starving children who would take the food that you complain about to be taken back, they would take it just so they didn't freaking starve to death!

sorry but the people here digust me and I will just enjoy what they will provide and at least they did provide something, they is honestly no point to hold some type of vendetta or grudge!

You're used money to play a game and you're using time to complain about people complaining about it. 

Might not want to throw a "there are people starving, you disgust me" rock in your glass house. 

[disc0nnect7]

Free DLC won't necessarily fix anything, it's just a crutch IMO.

Also, going on about starving children and people not being able to go to restaurants-I think you took the analogy the wrong way. People aren't going to be satisfied with something free added to the bunch if it doesn't fix the main course.

[Fhaarkas]

wesr wrote...

And again, why do consumers have some type of moral obligation not to offer honest opinions when those opinions are negative? 

Because consumers have been turned into mindless sheep and taught not to value their money or want quality. They're told that the plate of crap before them is a steak and they'll eat it with a grin even if they knew it was crap.

I am of the opinion that people value money too much.

[KMYash]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

you know how lame this excuse is? Let us just say most businesses or restaunts don't serve bad food! There would be no point in having the restuarant in the first place! Also not a lot of people get to eat at restuarants. So for a person to complain because the meal they just had wasn't up to their standards, Yet when we have countries that we have starving children who would take the food that you complain about to be taken back, they would take it just so they didn't freaking starve to death!

sorry but the people here digust me and I will just enjoy what they will provide and at least they did provide something, they is honestly no point to hold some type of vendetta or grudge!

That is the most confusing and wrong thing I ever read.

I figured from your first post you were just legit in disagreement with the majority of BSNers but now I'm contemplating troll.

[marshkoala]

WOW OP
So I have no right to complain......even when Casey Hudson told me this game was as much mine as his........His quote among others told me to expect a game that I did not get.

I've played all 3 and yes ME3 had great moments but the ending did not conform to Mr. Hudson's comments and I will continue to bring this up to him again and again.

If Bioware would simply explain why they think their ending is a great end that would be one thing but since Day One Bioware has ignored, belittled, attacked and made No attempt to answer any of the fans complaints with a Straight Answer just PR speak.

[marstinson]

To the OP: the issue is settled, I think, as far as any potential changes (or lack thereof). While I am not exceptionally happy with what BioWare has said they are going to do, the decision has been taken and I can't think of anything that would affect that one way or the other. Either the EC turns out to be decent or it won't. We can only wait and see what comes out the other end.

[Emberwake]

edwards_77 wrote...

The weirdest thing is, it is a fantastic game IMO. Even the ending. I know that isn't a very popular opinion to old on here, but that's what I feel. Looking forward to the extended cut!

Here's the thing. You may like the ending. THAT is an opinion. Whether the ending is GOOD or POOR can actually be rationally analyzed if we use existing standards of what is good or bad in a narrative. The ending of ME3 is VERY POOR by literary standards that have been accepted for centuries. It is not a matter of opinion unless you seek to redefine standards of quality in literature.

If you dislike the endings, you probably don't agree with what I just said. I challenge any pro-ender to address all the issues that have been raised with the current ending, and I challenge any pro-ender to find a single person holding an accredited advanced degree in literature or a related field to who approves of the structure of the narrative in ME3.

I don't mind Bioware looking to make money. I honestly think that has virtually nothing to do with the grievances Mass Effect fans have regarding the endings. Bioware worked hard on this game. They worked hard on the whole series. Thats actually a large part of why we wanted a better ending in the first place: because the series as a whole was great... until the last five minutes.

I accept that I have no control over Bioware. I accept that they have the right to make their games however they want. Now they need to accept that they can either stand up for their artistic vision and tell the world that they don't care what anyone thinks, or admit that they are actually in the business of pleasing as many fans as possible and abandon their dreams of unassailable artistic freedom. They can't have it both ways.

If I have a problem with their "Extended Cut" plans, it comes down to the way they've presented it and the statements they've made. They are playing the role of the injured party, who loves their fans so much that they're going to cave in and make changes to the ending they loved. But not the changes we want, because they have an artistic vision. Do you see the problem with that?

They aren't admiting to any fault. They are painting anyone who is critical of their work as an aggressor and making a show of "giving in" while actually doing nothing of the sort. Its insulting, and that is why I, and many other hardcore fans, have been publicly stating that going forward we will be expressing our feelings in the only way remaining to us: by boycotting Bioware.

And, in case you don't believe that such die-hard fans would ever really give up the games we obviously love so much in the first place, remember that the used game market remains a viable way to experience the games without giving Bioware a dime.

Modifié par Lochias WH, 07 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[Trikormadenadon]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

you know how lame this excuse is? Let us just say most businesses or restaunts don't serve bad food! There would be no point in having the restuarant in the first place! Also not a lot of people get to eat at restuarants. So for a person to complain because the meal they just had wasn't up to their standards, Yet when we have countries that we have starving children who would take the food that you complain about to be taken back, they would take it just so they didn't freaking starve to death!

sorry but the people here digust me and I will just enjoy what they will provide and at least they did provide something, they is honestly no point to hold some type of vendetta or grudge!

So you're saying if you don't like the meal you are served in a restaurant, even if its over/undercooked, you will just eat it anyways and say nothing? Wow. Just wow. /facepalm

[Vlta]

Justin2k wrote...

Please scroll up and read the third post.

I think a lot of the behaviour from both sides, and including mine, has been immature.  That being said it has been a volatile environment.  I don't think threads like this do any good, including the ones I made, and I think it's best if people from both sides agree to disagree on certain issues.

By slating me, and yeah i deserve it for certain things in the past, you are not making yourself look any better than I was when I was slating you.

My change in attitude comes because people are really genuinely upset now.  As in the five stages of grief upset.  I cannot watch someone like that femmeshep person leave the forums and think that is a good thing.  I don't want to see nice ordinary fans upset.   So no, I won't be bashing everyone and I'd kindly ask if you can leave my name out of that kinda thing going forward.  Apologies for any offence caused before.  Many Thanks.

That was disturbingly repentent...Alright you're off the table so long as you stick with the straight and straight.   

[Bourne Endeavor]

Alexraptor1 wrote...

Oh yes poooor EA, practically starving, going bankrupt, need our money to feed all their employees families.....
Please...
EA only made like almost 4 billion USD last year.

Just to put some actual statistics to this point...

Revenue: US$3.589 billion
Operating income: US$-312 million
Net income: US$-276 million
Total assets: US$4.928 billion
Total equity: US$2.564 billion

From wiki, as of Feb 2011. Yep, looks pretty dire. 

[Anduin The Grey]

Trikormadenadon wrote...


Not sure why you are getting defensive. Your statement sounded like you were waiting to see how the game turns out, thus I thought maybe you had not finished it yet. If you have finished it, then your response to the other person doesn't really make any sense to me, but that's ok, I don't have to understand everything. Not going to lose sleep over it. As for your first question, do you really think someone would buy the game and not play it at all? You have to own the game in order to post on these forums....

...really doesn't make any sense to me...

And there I believe lies the crux of the problem and in direct response I'd like to know who exactly has finished the game? DLC is still forthcoming is it not? I'm not afraid to complain about a terrible product once I know it's a terrible product I'm also not afraid to state my view in opposition of a vocal crowd but to be quite frank I can't understand why so many negative judgements have been made on an as yet unfinished product but the fact that so many have negatively judged on misunderstood comments that clearly do not make sense to them

[Diesel McBadass]

Problm is that thy are wxpanding on a terrible ending. Not fixing it. Its like taking a crap in a clogged toilet instead of grabbing a plunger

[Nyila]

Bantz wrote...

if you go out to dinner and your meal is terrible they comp you an entire meal or do it over fresh. They don't just bring some free brocoli

[Anduin The Grey]

garf wrote...


Good for you. There's a whole lot of people who feel otherwise with whole lot of evidence to back them up.

And that evidence is from a cutscene with a distinct lack of said evidence and information. If i'm going to lynch my favourite developer, I wanna know I lynched for a good reason, anything else and the term, cutting your nose off to spite your own face springs to mind.

[Chrillze]

yes we are horrible, horrible people and we deserve to burn in hell

[Phl0w]

Unless the dlc fundamentally revises the premise of the ending most will still be at best mildly annoyed. I will spare going over everything but one of the glaring problems that ****** me off personally was they used the words "artistic integrity" again, using this is an insult to people paying attention. The ending was almost a direct rip from deus ex, almost idea for idea word for word it was insultingly the same damn thing. If you do not believe me go beat the old deus ex so you can facepalm when you are presented with control, destroy or combine options a the end. Their ending fully left the realm of art when they took 90% of the idea from deus ex, integrity on the other hand was lost the instant they started borrowing ideas from it.

So we're pissed at bioware because they arrogantly refuse to acknowledge how much of a cop-out the ending was and the other lazy corner cutting they committed in the game.

[DavidMW]

When people make threads that insult fans who are mad at Bioware...well it makes me think they arent fans at all.

Regardless of where you stand, a fan should understand why people are angry. This is a community, calling fellow members pathetic is idiotic.

I dont think people are being unreasonable, each is entitled to an opinion. You dont share it, fine but keep your offensive thoughts to yourself. People need to realise, Bioware are big boys and girls! We arent hurting their feelings and they dont need you "protecting" them.

[Emberwake]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Alexraptor1 wrote...

Oh yes poooor EA, practically starving, going bankrupt, need our money to feed all their employees families.....
Please...
EA only made like almost 4 billion USD last year.

Just to put some actual statistics to this point...

Revenue: US$3.589 billion
Operating income: US$-312 million
Net income: US$-276 million
Total assets: US$4.928 billion
Total equity: US$2.564 billion

From wiki, as of Feb 2011. Yep, looks pretty dire. 

They're wealthy, but you do realize you just posted that EA LOST 276 million dollars last year, right? And that their total assets include things like the estimated value of their intellectual properties and the buildings they work in, right?

Actually, I just looked it up and EA's lost hundreds of millions of dollars each year for at least the last three years.

[Anduin The Grey]

I thought the endings were genius, not some 2 dimensional, face boss, beat boss, happy ever after roll credits, let's do exactly the same with ME4,5 and 6 and really milk these puppies.

Not only that, but if when they bring out the clarification DLC and the game has been told in it's entirety, if they add something stupid like, Mass Relays did actually blow up every solar system and your Shepard is shown travelling from Earth to the Citadel, business as usual, you can squarley and 100% bet on an outcome that has me thinking, w...t...f...

[JudgeOverdose]

FreshRevenge wrote...

 Seriously all this bashing and still insulting BioWare has to draw a line? It is really pathetic that fans are attacking BioWare still? After the fact they have heard the complaints from fans and want to make right by it by providing free content.

 

To explain a broken ending and maintain "artistic integrity" despite the fact that none of what they are doing lives up to their pre-launch promises? Do you understand basic economic priciples? Market economy requires trust between buyer and seller, and in this case BioWare has broken the buyer's (consumers) trust.

FreshRevenge wrote... 

I look at this way, Bioware and any other game company needs to make money. They need to make money to pay their employees or have the fans think they are doing it for free? Most game designers and programmers have to buy food and pay for gas and pay the rent, mortgage etc. So the insults to BioWare and EA that they are looking just for the money is pretty much a understatement. If you haven't understood that concept than maybe you are just too young to play this game?

When you go to a restaurant and buy dinner, you don't think it's going to be free? When you go to the grocery store and buy food, You don't think they are going to let you walk out without paying for it, do you?

When you go to a car lot looking for a car, you don't think the owner is going to allow you to  drive off without paying for it?

  

When I go to a restaurant, and I read the menu, and they bring back a plate of Alpo no matter what I ordered, I will not pay for it (nor wil I eat it), and I will recommend that no one else go there.

When I go to a grocery store, and I buy something that is falsely labeled, I will get my money back, and warn others about a poorly labled product.

When I go to a car lot looking for a car that is labeled "Hybrid 45mpg" and I get a car that delivers 20 mpg, I will fight with everything I have to either get a refund or a new car that delivers on the claim, based on the fact that they falsely advertised their product.

FreshRevenge wrote... 

Now I get that fans are upset by the ending and pretty much have stated the same plotsholes over and over aod over. BioWare heard and trying to solve it the way We get news that they are releasing a extended cut DLC and the resurgenous Pack, yet no seems to be statisfied?

Yet more insults saying that Bioware is just making maps so they can charge us the reinforcement packs, If you haven't notice, but the game forces you to play to unlock the extra content. You also have the choiice of spending money to unlock the content too.

Nothing is being force on anybody? So I just don't get how people are uptight about this?

Actually it would be nice to state how old you are because honestly some of the maturity levels on here haven't even left puberty!

BioWare are working on releasing us content. They heard us. They don't need to pull out a script or leak every little thing they are working on to improve the ending? They actually don't really have to bother doing anything? Nothing!

Why are you insulting people for being immature? You want people to agree with you and settle down, yet you come here and insult people for insulting BioWare? Do you not see the hypocrisy in your sentiment? How do you expect to get people to settle down and back off by riling them up?

Honestly, your point of view, while valid (for given values of valid), is one that smacks of the same level of immaturity that you label others with. On first perception, the delivery is always more important than the core message. You don't put out a fire with gasoline.

Beyond that, they are releasing an extension of an ending that is not what we were promised; one that robs us of choice in the 11th hour in favor of a manageable stock ending with different colored explosions. This is why people are upset, and will continue to be upset; call it what you want, but that is the answer to your question.

[Almighty_Hoogs]

KMYash wrote...

While I'll agree that people shouldn't go too far into the insult area of debate, I think fans/customers have the right to be upset with the product they spent money on.

And on the free extension dlc, that's great and all but by what BIOWARE has said about it, it is not listening to what the fans/customers have said.

Lastly, I've seen multiple people say that if if meant a great new ending dlc that fixed a lot of what was hated then they'd be willing to pay for it. Depending on what it entail I've also said that I'd pay for ending dlc if it was what the fans wanted. That's more money in BW/EA's pocket. Sure that means they would have to put much more effort into it but it would mean more money and some regained customer trust.

Game developers are unique in their ability to 'fix' a game post release. While you can change things in new edition and such in books and movies its just not the same. So customers of games SHOULD have the unique ability to ask for changes in the game. Except there seems to be this weird divide of customers that ask (and I'll admit sometimes they don't ask nicely) and those that try to rebuke the idea of asking for change.

To people that say that boycotting EA or Bioware is too much because only one team made it and that team doesn't make all the games, here is an analogy. Let's say you go to McDonald's and order a cheeseburger. It's terrible, you hate it and swear you'll never give another dollar to McDonald's to make cheeseburgers. No you go back the next day and get a McChicken. That dollar you spent on the mcchicken still goes to McDonald's. The company doesn't care which product you bought, just that you continue to buy their products. Sure you may see more ads for McChickens and the other popular items but you're not stopping that cheeseburger from being made. Boycott the entire company or your boycott is pointless.

[wesr]

I could and a dozen friends could live forever on what they make a year and not put a dent in the amount. It's going to take a lot more screwing up before they really need to start worrying. Then again when execs make 2 million a year it might not.

[Trikormadenadon]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...


Not sure why you are getting defensive. Your statement sounded like you were waiting to see how the game turns out, thus I thought maybe you had not finished it yet. If you have finished it, then your response to the other person doesn't really make any sense to me, but that's ok, I don't have to understand everything. Not going to lose sleep over it. As for your first question, do you really think someone would buy the game and not play it at all? You have to own the game in order to post on these forums....

...really doesn't make any sense to me...

And there I believe lies the crux of the problem and in direct response I'd like to know who exactly has finished the game? DLC is still forthcoming is it not? I'm not afraid to complain about a terrible product once I know it's a terrible product I'm also not afraid to state my view in opposition of a vocal crowd but to be quite frank I can't understand why so many negative judgements have been made on an as yet unfinished product but the fact that so many have negatively judged on misunderstood comments that clearly do not make sense to them

That's what you got from what I said? that I negatively judged you? How is it negatively judging you to get the thought that you may not have finished the game yet? It isn't. In my post I even acknowled that I may have got the wrong impression by saying "If so, then..." Then you come back trying to imply I didn't even play that game at all. Sounds more like you were negatively judging me than me negatively judging you.

[-Area51-Silent]

Bioware fans? no.

Bioware customers? yes!

If they falsely represent a product they sold to me, I will take it to them until they either refund my cash or fix the product. If they are not up front about what is in the product and purposely misrepresent what we are being sold (without making corrections as they prepare to release it), they deserve everything they get.