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Are BioWare fans this awful?


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#176
shodiswe

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I love the game as a whole but the ending needed more work to be in line with the quality of the rest of the product... The part with the catalyst child projection (the leader of the reapers) is the worst part imo... The reaper leader the same entity that has been tricking manipulationg and murdering countless civilizations and thousands of trillions of people is sticking its claws into Shepard and for all i can tell "my" shepard just seems to buy every word of it, no real objections. Just a small very weak statement sayin, organics arn't happy. then it dies of. I really expected more from a game like this. In that last sequence all passion is dead. After several years or torment Shepard meets his nemesis for the first time. And all he has to say is, Organics arn't happy with your solution.
The Devil answers, very well, I was getting bored anyway, lets find a new game ot play.
Shepard: What's thy bidding my master?
Catalyst: I can't pick a game on my own, so lets try this, Either you kill yourself and tell us what else we can do, or you kill yourself turning everyone into happy Organic/syntetic thralls that wont make war on eachother because all all differing opinions will be erazed and people will be happy forever and ever.
or you might just blow everything up, me you (since you're partialy synthetic and your geth friends aswell, edi and every synthetic)

I even had to make that part up because the ending was so empty that I had no idea what was going on, it didn't make sense. That's my problem. Not hate, just dissapointment :(
I wish BW could or that they will fix this problem. And I hope it wont repeat itself in the future with future titles. If I would have hate the game as a whole then I wouldn't have bothered to complain about the ending because it wouldn't be worth my while, but this is tragic.

#177
Anduin The Grey

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DavidMW wrote...

When people make threads that insult fans who are mad at Bioware...well it makes me think they arent fans at all.

Regardless of where you stand, a fan should understand why people are angry. This is a community, calling fellow members pathetic is idiotic.

I dont think people are being unreasonable, each is entitled to an opinion. You dont share it, fine but keep your offensive thoughts to yourself. People need to realise, Bioware are big boys and girls! We arent hurting their feelings and they dont need you "protecting" them.


If everyone kept their offensive thoughts to themselves this thread wouldn't even exist. I am not protecting Bioware, so much as I'm protecting the community I want to see protected. There are folks trashing not only Bioware but this community, a community I've enjoyed for 10 years, and I'm not supposed to get angry over that?

As for not hurting their feelings? That's probably the most juvenile comment so far in this thread, words hurt, ask any parent, school child or victim of bullying. I'd be very surprised if the nonsense that has been paraded as sense in these forums hasn't hurt the feelings of anyone.

I'm upset at this sub-forum being turned into a free for all bashathon.

If you have a better community to protect I suggest do so.

#178
JShepppp

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edwards_77 wrote...

The weirdest thing is, it is a fantastic game IMO. Even the ending. :) I know that isn't a very popular opinion to old on here, but that's what I feel. Looking forward to the extended cut!


I love your optimism and enthusiasm in spite of the hate you must have unfortunately received for merely stating your opinion. 

I for one agree. It was a great game. It had a few problems, but I felt it was overall epic and satisfying. 

Really, though. I'm not laughing at you or anything. Your cheerfulness made me feel good for some reason lol, maybe because it's in such short supply in these forums. I hope the cut will answer some questions too, but if not, I will walk away with an amazing experience nonetheless. 

#179
Anduin The Grey

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Trikormadenadon wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...


Not sure why you are getting defensive. Your statement sounded like you were waiting to see how the game turns out, thus I thought maybe you had not finished it yet. If you have finished it, then your response to the other person doesn't really make any sense to me, but that's ok, I don't have to understand everything. Not going to lose sleep over it. As for your first question, do you really think someone would buy the game and not play it at all? You have to own the game in order to post on these forums....


...really doesn't make any sense to me...


And there I believe lies the crux of the problem and in direct response I'd like to know who exactly has finished the game? DLC is still forthcoming is it not? I'm not afraid to complain about a terrible product once I know it's a terrible product I'm also not afraid to state my view in opposition of a vocal crowd but to be quite frank I can't understand why so many negative judgements have been made on an as yet unfinished product but the fact that so many have negatively judged on misunderstood comments that clearly do not make sense to them




That's what you got from what I said? that I negatively judged you? How is it negatively judging you to get the thought that you may not have finished the game yet? It isn't. In my post I even acknowled that I may have got the wrong impression by saying "If so, then..." Then you come back trying to imply I didn't even play that game at all. Sounds more like you were negatively judging me than me negatively judging you.


And I'm sure I negatively judged you first which isn't at all like claiming your sister is at fault because she hit you first.

The questions still stand however or are you going to continue questioning my motivation instead?

#180
varel1

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I would class myself as a "Bioware fan", in that I have bought most of the Bioware games published in the last decade or so, from Planescape Torment, through to ME3.

The problem, as I see it, is that most "Bioware fans" are RPGers, brought up on long immersive games with deep, coherent plots. ME3 is, in my opinion, more of a "shooter", with the emphasis on action rather than plot. With the rich history Bioware has of making superb games, e.g. BG2, KOTOR, together with the Bioware announcements about game content, fan expectation was high - then ME3 was released to widespread fan diappointment.

As our expectation was so high, so we have been more vocal in our disappointment, as we have every right to be, so no this Bioware fan is not awful, just awfully disappointed in ME3.

#181
Ville L

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I find it funny that some people find constructive criticism as a bashing.

#182
sistersafetypin

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Yes. We also steal candy from children and refuse to help old ladies cross the road.

#183
recentio

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Only a special few are taking the news in immature fashion. I can understand being upset. Not everyone who's still unhappy are bashing and all. Just some bad apples.

#184
Anduin The Grey

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varel1 wrote...

I would class myself as a "Bioware fan", in that I have bought most of the Bioware games published in the last decade or so, from Planescape Torment, through to ME3.

The problem, as I see it, is that most "Bioware fans" are RPGers, brought up on long immersive games with deep, coherent plots. ME3 is, in my opinion, more of a "shooter", with the emphasis on action rather than plot. With the rich history Bioware has of making superb games, e.g. BG2, KOTOR, together with the Bioware announcements about game content, fan expectation was high - then ME3 was released to widespread fan diappointment.

As our expectation was so high, so we have been more vocal in our disappointment, as we have every right to be, so no this Bioware fan is not awful, just awfully disappointed in ME3.


I both agree with this and disagree with it equally, there's a certain amount of Role Playing and self interpretation involved in the RPG's I like, I'm sure I'm not alone because even the we hate the ending movements can agree that maybe there was far too much left for our interpretation.

I just won't agree on being told that what I need is a journey to the polar opposite of an argument and that what I really need is a bed time story told to me.

Both extremes are wrong, any extreme position in my view is, even extreme liberalism.

Modifié par Anduin The Grey, 07 avril 2012 - 07:31 .


#185
Sailfindragon

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recentio wrote...

Only a special few are taking the news in immature fashion. I can understand being upset. Not everyone who's still unhappy are bashing and all. Just some bad apples.


I agree most people here (with the exception of a few on both sides of the fence) are civil and very articulate in their reasons why they do/don't like the ending.

I create content for another EA game. Believe me that community is far worse than BSN. It makes even the "bad apples" here look respectable.

#186
Qutayba

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Quite a few of us are willing to let BioWare do their thing. Unfortunately, much of BioWare's official response has been slightly off-key, which has stirred fans up more. I'm willing to chalk it up to human imperfections.

There is some real bashing still going on, it's true. But not all criticism or skepticism is bashing. I understand the skepticism, even if I'm a little more optimistic myself.

The way I see it, the ending issue was amplified by the general impression that BioWare's association with EA has led to more cut corners and a clipping of BioWare's creative wings. Most people agree that DA2 was not what it could have been with another six months of development.

I agree with the OP that the complaints often border on the hysterical. But a lot of the criticism has been made with the intention of helping BioWare fix things. A little tough love might be called for.

#187
Blazingkats

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We didn't get new endings but at least we're getting a extended cut and it's FREE.I feel like we accomplished alot.

I'm looking forward to the extended cut.

#188
tomcplotts

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about as pathetic as blind corporate stooges thinking that petting the master's monkey is going to get them a promotion to coffee maker for the office.

i don't agree with everyone pounding on this game or this series--although I agree with a lot of the larger issues--but I'm proud of the people who stood up for themselves as consumers and partners in this enterprise, even if that resistance got a little unreasonable and selfish at times. I'd take those people over power sycophants any and every day of the week. We have enough obedient twits in this culture as it is.

#189
iorveth1271

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Thanks, but I don't need some free cutscenes that clarify things you can't clarify because they're plain and simple broken. I won't jump for simple free bait.

The point of the criticism was never clarification but fixing. Bioware did not listen.

#190
LuckySe7enty

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ive always found rpg fans differnt than the usual run of the mill. this game isnt like cod or gears, the story and singleplayer while okay to good are not its main aspect and legacy. with ME, its the opposite. fans put in 100's of hours with charcters over years. if there is something that upsets them then of course they will be angry and upset.

#191
JudgeOverdose

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Lochias WH wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Alexraptor1 wrote...

Oh yes poooor EA, practically starving, going bankrupt, need our money to feed all their employees families.....
Please...
EA only made like almost 4 billion USD last year.


Just to put some actual statistics to this point...

Revenue: US$3.589 billion
Operating income: US$-312 million
Net income: US$-276 million
Total assets: US$4.928 billion
Total equity: US$2.564 billion

From wiki, as of Feb 2011. Yep, looks pretty dire. :lol:


They're wealthy, but you do realize you just posted that EA LOST 276 million dollars last year, right? And that their total assets include things like the estimated value of their intellectual properties and the buildings they work in, right?

Actually, I just looked it up and EA's lost hundreds of millions of dollars each year for at least the last three years.


Upon reviewing their financials (in fiscal 2011), just to expand upon the previous point:

[In U.S. dollars]

Revenue: they brought in $3,589,000,000

Operating (loss): Managed internal expenses reduced operating income from $3,589,000,000 to $-312,000,000 (meaning that their cost of doing business was [$3,590,000,000 + $312,000,000 =]  ~$3,902,000,000
AKA they operate at a loss, and that is not a favorable thing for investors

Net (loss): $-276,000,000; this reduces equity, and is obviously not a good thing -- companies are in business to make money, not lose it.

Total assets: (this number is actually) $5,696,000,000 -- this number, while it may seem impressive, is really just a number that includes cash, receivables (money owed to them), investments, inventories, deferred income taxes (because of their posted losses), property, plant, and equipment, and some intangible asses, including $1,716,000,000 in goodwill. You gain goodwill by paying for a company's reputation when you take them over -- aka, when EA purchased BioWare, it paid more than market value for the company because of its good name, despite the fact that the name is currently being dragged through the mud.

Total equity: $2,564,000,000 -- this number tells you how much of a company's assets are financed by investors -- equity financing. Stock sold directly from the company, and retained earnings (which at this point is callled "accumulated deficit" because it is negative, since it has been decreasing on a yearly basis due to posted losses.) 

Not previously mentioned, but worth noting:

Total liabilities: $3,341,000,000 -- this number is money they owe to other people; it is debt. Liabilities and equity combined finance assets, and in this case, the company is financed [$3,341,000,000 / $5,696,000,000 =]  .5865, or roughly 58.65% by debt. This, by the way, makes the company a more risky proposition to lend money to, which is not a good thing.

As previously noted, the company has posted losses in 4 of the last 5 fiscal years:

2007: 76
This means a Net Income (profit) of $76,000,000
2008: (454)
This means a Net Loss (loss) of $454,000,000
2009: (1,088)
This means a Net Loss (loss) of $1,088,000,000
2010: (677)
This means a Net Loss (loss) of $677,000,000
2011: (276)
This  means a Net Loss (loss) of $276,000,000

In short, they are not performing particularly well; they are losing money, and even though the amount they are losing has decreased over the last 3 fiscal years, they are still losing money. Whether they are winning awards or not, this company does not know how to manage its expenses, and, at present, is not a good investment.

[Edited for formatting]

Modifié par JudgeOverdose, 07 avril 2012 - 07:48 .


#192
Anduin The Grey

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Qutayba wrote...

Quite a few of us are willing to let BioWare do their thing. Unfortunately, much of BioWare's official response has been slightly off-key, which has stirred fans up more. I'm willing to chalk it up to human imperfections.

There is some real bashing still going on, it's true. But not all criticism or skepticism is bashing. I understand the skepticism, even if I'm a little more optimistic myself.

The way I see it, the ending issue was amplified by the general impression that BioWare's association with EA has led to more cut corners and a clipping of BioWare's creative wings. Most people agree that DA2 was not what it could have been with another six months of development.

I agree with the OP that the complaints often border on the hysterical. But a lot of the criticism has been made with the intention of helping BioWare fix things. A little tough love might be called for.


Agreed completely. Unfortunately, in my view, any hysteria runs the risk of diluting any good intention of tough love. Hopefully though, Bioware are reading and picking out the arguments from both sides that make sense or just plainly point out things that hadn't already crossed their minds.

#193
Foulpancake

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Katherine wrote...

So your response to fans bashing Bioware is to bash Bioware fans. Nice.


haha, my thoughts exactly

Ok OP to use your examples since you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

You go to a polish restaraunt and look at the menu, all classic polish food, all advertised as such, with all polish cooks. So you order Perrogi, Golabki and Kapusta (crap now i'm hungry...), you wait in anticipation for an hour because its a busy restaurant. Finally the waiter brings you a McDonalds cheezeburger and cold fries... He then tells you that even though it was advertised as polish food, the chef decided to alter the order to fit with his Artistic vision of what those foods should be like, and please enjoy your polish food...

You're saying that the consumer would not have the right to say "wait, this isn't even close to what i ordered, give me what you TOLD me i could have...and slap the chef with a large trout please"

We ordered classic polish and were given cold fries...we didn't order cold fries...we don't want cold fries...yes we are in the right here

#194
Anduin The Grey

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tomcplotts wrote...

about as pathetic as blind corporate stooges thinking that petting the master's monkey is going to get them a promotion to coffee maker for the office.

i don't agree with everyone pounding on this game or this series--although I agree with a lot of the larger issues--but I'm proud of the people who stood up for themselves as consumers and partners in this enterprise, even if that resistance got a little unreasonable and selfish at times. I'd take those people over power sycophants any and every day of the week. We have enough obedient twits in this culture as it is.


I'd prefer to take person power over people power any day, safety in numbers is great but I'm not going to sign up for any movement if I have fundamental problems with it. If that leaves me asking questions from the sidelines so be it.

#195
LinksOcarina

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The word passionate comes to mind.

But then again most RPG fans are, to a point of pure nausea when it comes down to things like turn based combat vs real time combat and a games art style.

It honestly makes me a bit nauseated to see people this passionate at times over something so superfluous, but I guess everyone needs an outlet in the end.

#196
tomcplotts

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Anduin The Grey wrote...

tomcplotts wrote...

about as pathetic as blind corporate stooges thinking that petting the master's monkey is going to get them a promotion to coffee maker for the office.

i don't agree with everyone pounding on this game or this series--although I agree with a lot of the larger issues--but I'm proud of the people who stood up for themselves as consumers and partners in this enterprise, even if that resistance got a little unreasonable and selfish at times. I'd take those people over power sycophants any and every day of the week. We have enough obedient twits in this culture as it is.


I'd prefer to take person power over people power any day, safety in numbers is great but I'm not going to sign up for any movement if I have fundamental problems with it. If that leaves me asking questions from the sidelines so be it.


"Asking questions" is fine: that's the basis of the upset fan contingent. So obviously if someone's doing the same in defense of the company, that's also fine and fits the spirit. But let's face it: this place has more than a few "good german" trolls whose primary gripe is the fact that people aren't sufficiently submissive in the presence of their betters. And they're the ones doing most of these threads.

But if you want respect for disagreeing, then show it to those you disagree with as well. If you do that, then I have no problem with it.

As for your devotion to individualism at the level of principle, that's certainly the American way ™.  It's also suicide when it comes to affecting the world around you.

#197
sargon1986

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What are you talking about? im no longer a Bioware fan.

#198
Anduin The Grey

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I'd settle for less threads entitled harhar you suck threads, whether that's superfluous or just anger management over human nature I'm not totally sure is open to interpretation I guess.

And yes, everyone needs an outlet, maybe this is just a collective fear that has been building in response to Bioware being purchased by EA, same fear, different ways of expressing that same fear.

#199
Vox Draco

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LinksOcarina wrote...

The word passionate comes to mind.

But then again most RPG fans are, to a point of pure nausea when it comes down to things like turn based combat vs real time combat and a games art style.

It honestly makes me a bit nauseated to see people this passionate at times over something so superfluous, but I guess everyone needs an outlet in the end.


Ah, it's okay to feel like that. I feel the same when people start talking "passionately" about sports, religion or politics, things that hardly interest me and seem very uninteresting and not worth the effort in my eyes...and yeah, I know, at least the latter should interest everybody...Posted Image

#200
Mad-Hamlet

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Posted Image