184 réponses à ce sujet

[Leviro2005]

Very interesting read, thanks!

[McAllyster]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

While I think you are approaching the subject correctly and this is, indeed the situation Bioware finds itself in now, I think this gives them all the more reason to do a great job on the Extended Cut.

True and false.

Yes they have to do great job. If they take care, if they make a great DLC they can win the situation. Bioware / Mass Effect brands can be stronger after a successful solution.

However....

7 out of 10 customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favor. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner 

The problem is: a high percentage of customers are not satisfied with this solution. I think the majority will download the DLC, or at least watch the extended scenes on Youtube. (Problem: watching scenes on Youtube is not the same level of immersion like actively playing a game. But a lot of dissatisfied evanglestists will just watch the scenes.)

For a lost of evangelist-level customers EC is not a "resolve the complaint in their favor". It seems Bioware doesn't understand the problem at all. Maybe they have understanding but they choose to communicate the situation in this way. They are talking about more closure, clarification, etc. But for a lot of gamers this is just a part of a bigger problem. These evangelists waited a Suicide Mission-style ending fight on Earth, these people hates Starchild... and because they are the biggest fan of the series they much more aware about the big plotholes. And they cannot imagine an "extending"-solution which can cover these plotholes.

Yes, EC can divide the community, and "divide et impera" is a working strategy. Problem: a high percentage of customers are already hates EC.

Bioware can still save this, and I think they will - by the end of this - find a way for them and us to all walk away happy.

But you are right about the stakes. So, to Bioware, as Ed Murrow famously would sign off: Good night and good luck.

I hope your right. As a fan of Mass Effect and an ex-evangelist of Bioware. Bioware was a great company but they has a series of missteps in the recent month.

I was never a big fan of DAO. Actually I enjoyed DAO2 - but as a one-time game. I can understand if DAO core fanbase are disappointed.

I played SWTOR. Maybe I'll playing again - but SWTOR has huge problems and many fans are disappointed.

Now this controversy with ME3 ending...

Three problems in a row are not separate problems - it's a trend. A negative trend which multiplies the negative effects. Especially in such a sensitive group like evangelists.

Anyway, thanks for your comment! I never though I'll have a PR / marketing discussion in Mass Effect boards.

[DnVill]

McAllyster wrote...

- Customer loyalty can be worth up to 10 times as much as a single purchase. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC. 

I am a good example to this since I've already prevented AT LEAST 10 of my friends from buying ME3.

[Spanky Magoo]

Jorojr wrote...

So basically, if you don't take care of your customers, some else will.

lol, Bethesda,CD Projekt, etc : "Hey,blue on account of ME3? Its okay I got what you need"

I guess I would put myself in the advocat/evagelist group. Ive turned of many Xbox friendd as well as coworkers off of buying me3 and I dint even know it. I just spoke honestly about my experience with the game.

[Jayleia]

Baronesa wrote...

Thos ehav ebeen my words on many occasions before 

It is BioWare... of course it will be good...



It hurts

I can attest to that, as she's the one that pestered me repeatedly into buying ME1 and 2 on Steam, hey, they were on sale anyway...I was stunned by them.  They were beautiful, and ME 3 IS beautiful, better than ME 2...except...well, we all know the problems.

[Dominator24]

McAllyster wrote...

 Forbes quoting Michael Pachter who calls the members of Retake movement "whiners".

I think he should have ask a professional opinion from a marketing guy.

However a commenter shared a great link:

Customer Service Facts

Some good data:


- 91% of unhappy customers will not willingly do business with you again. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- 70% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favour. Source: Lee Resource Inc- 95% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint instantly. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- It costs five to six times as much to get a new (first time) customer as it does to keep a current one. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC. 

- Customer loyalty can be worth up to 10 times as much as a single purchase. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC. 

- It costs 6 times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an old one. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner 

- Customer loyalty is, in most cases worth 10 times the price of a single purchase. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- A typical business hears from only about 4% of its dissatisfied customers. 96% just go away and 91% will never come back. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- 7 out of 10 customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favor. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner 

Edit: formatting

^^^- A typical business hears from only about 4% of its dissatisfied
customers. 96% just go away and 91% will never come back. Source:
“Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

I don't think this takes in to account how internet changed the consumer
- company dialogue in the last years. so we could take this 4% and x*
I'm just not sure what * would be.

But the all the rest is probably as it sound and that paint a bad thing for Bioware.

[rivqa]

Great post. I've talked at least thre people out of buying ME3.

[Actinguy1]

I thought this was all basic stuff, but judging from the responses on this board, looks like it was new information for most, so thanks OP.

Of course none of this is new information to EA or Bioware, who obviously have a fair share of business people on staff in addition to their "artists."

I have a hard time believing Bioware ever called us entitled. Outside media sources have, certainly, but Bioware employees? I'd need a very legitimate source on that before I ever came close to believing,and I say that as a former evangelist who has gone in the complete opposite direction. I now warn even non-gamers to never try ME3 (at least until it is fixed.)

[Octopus_DK]

This is definitely interesting. Is there any books you can recommend on Marketing? I don't know much about it, being in engineering, but I've always found economics quite fascinating (not the accounting part, the actual economics theories about markets and rational behavior). It seems like marketing has a bit of the same.

[Actinguy1]

McAllyster wrote...

 Forbes quoting Michael Pachter who calls the members of Retake movement "whiners".

I think he should have ask a professional opinion from a marketing guy.

However a commenter shared a great link:

Customer Service Facts

Some good data:


- 91% of unhappy customers will not willingly do business with you again. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- 70% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favour. Source: Lee Resource Inc- 95% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint instantly. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- It costs five to six times as much to get a new (first time) customer as it does to keep a current one. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC. 

- Customer loyalty can be worth up to 10 times as much as a single purchase. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC. 

- It costs 6 times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an old one. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner 

- Customer loyalty is, in most cases worth 10 times the price of a single purchase. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- A typical business hears from only about 4% of its dissatisfied customers. 96% just go away and 91% will never come back. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- 7 out of 10 customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favor. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner 

Edit: formatting

Pachter is neither a Bioware nor EA employee. He is also completely uneducated on the topic given his clueless quotes.  It's fine to disagree with us of course, but he is ignorant of the facts being debated...which is ironic, given that he is apparently a "videogame analyst" for an investment firm.

[McAllyster]

Actinguy1 wrote...


Pachter is neither a Bioware nor EA employee. He is also completely uneducated on the topic given his clueless quotes.  It's fine to disagree with us of course, but he is ignorant of the facts being debated...which is ironic, given that he is apparently a "videogame analyst" for an investment firm.

Marketing perspective and financial perspective are not the same. I suppose Mr. Pachter has more financial background than marketing. Of course a good business analyst has to consider some other facts beyond pure financial data.

ME3 is possibly a huge financial success. Pre-orders and first week sales are off the charts I suppose. And I bet the marketing budget was not so huge: gamer media was more than eager to give "free advertisements" in the form of exlusive interviews, etc. But this hype based on previous success of ME and Bioware.

Honestly, I can't really understand gamer media as well. Especially IGN who was the flagship of this "whiner"-argument. They are alienating their own readerbase too with this type of argument. In a perfect world (I know our world is not perfect) a gamer magazine should have one responsibility: commitment to the reader, the customer.

[Gwtheyrn]

I have to say that, yes... I believe I now fall into the category of anti-evangelist. I've saved friends from purchasing copies of DA2 and ME3.

Barring a very heart-felt apology for the lack of quality in these two games and a definitive return to strong storytelling, I will neither purchase any further Bioware games, nor speak well of the company and its products to acquaintances.

[Gibsn]

Does anyone really plan on following through? Bw is counting on our fickleness.

[zeypher]

i do, when ubisoft went with their crazy insane drm on pcs, i stopped purchasing ubisoft published games. There were some i might have tried but now i just avoid every single ubisoft title. Assassins creed included. Not buying or playing that series.

So if bioware decide or plan on shifting their market focus, i got not problems with that. Ill find other companies that make what i want, and will recommend those companies to my friends

[PaddlePop]

Great post OP. This deserves to be read.

[Njald]

This shouldn't be told to Biowares forum moderators.(the only ones reading this anymore. That and one really sweet DA3 guy).
This is something EA needs to get into their skulls. And if they don't know it now, they sure as hell will know it once DA3 rolls around.

[TheGameFan]

Gibsn wrote...

Does anyone really plan on following through? Bw is counting on our fickleness.

I don't think it's not a matter of following through or being fickle. It's a matter of trust. I've trusted Bioware enough to buy sight unseen in the past. I will not do that again in the future.

I WILL NOT pre-order DA3, but I will read fan reviews and if it is good, I will likely buy.

[MattFini]

I absolutely love this post, and I couldn't agree more.

I was, without a doubt, one of MASS EFFECT's biggest advocates throughout the first two games and throughout the hype leading up to ME3. I'd convinced several friends to play the games, and I didn't shut up about 3 for the month leading up to it.

In the wake of ME3, I have personally discouraged two friends (PS3 owners) from picking up ME2 or 3. After this crap PAX panel, I cancelled my pre-order for both waves of MASS EFFECT figures (I am making a home theater room in my house and wanted to have some cool figures to line the shelving). I also held off on picking up the "Art of Mass Effect" book, as well as all but the first novel. All of these things I was planning to buy ... also an N7 hoodie.

I want nothing to do with any of that crap now.

I remain somewhat optimistic about the "extended ending" DLC, but I won't get fooled again. If BioWare hits it out of the park (meaning, it had better be absolutely SPECTACULAR), I would happily come back as an "evangelist". But I'm done cheerleading for them until I see they can take another step in the right direction.

Modifié par MattFini, 08 avril 2012 - 04:00 .

[OhoniX]

Basically, the first post can be summed up as "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"

[Byrdman]

This couldn't be more true. My coworker is a loyal fan, not an advocate, while myself, I'm definitely an evangelist. I talked about how excited I was about this game for a full month before release at work, pissing off my coworkers in the process. I talked about it on Facebook too, about how March was going to be an awesome month because I was going to get to finish the Mass Effect saga, and I would be replaying it with all my previous saves.

Then the ending happened. And now at work all I've been able to talk about is how bad the ending is, how awful I feel we've been treated (entitled, whiny, etc...). My coworker didn't pre-order the game, but he did buy it right before I finished the game, and has heard nothing but how much I hate the ending from me. He liked it, but in a "whatever" type fashion. My rants and raves have probably kept all my coworkers from buying it. I will actively warn them.

The worst enemy to have is a former friend.

Modifié par Byrdman, 08 avril 2012 - 04:14 .

[Odetus-]

I used to recommend the ME series (and DA + almost all BW titles) to all my fellow gamers. I sent my friends sms/email/im messages whenever I saw the games on sale encouraging them to get on board and buy and enjoy those amazing titles. I even went as far as bought a few copies of ME1 when it was on sale and gave them as presents to my friends so they'd know what I was always ranting about.

Now I know I was an evangelist and used to be proud of it. After the ending fiasco I've been telling my gaming friends to stay off the ME franchise and at least 5 of my friends have not bought ME3 because of that. Imagine if every loyal hc fan or "evangelist" does the same. That amounts to a ****load of copies not being sold.

I have mixed feelings about this because I still believe BW is a great company and I want them to succeed and continue releasing these excellent games I've known to love. But it's clear that $£€ and only that is what matters and this is really the only way for me to make any difference.

So there you have it, me a one time loyal customer that brought tens of new fans into the "Mass Effect family" am now an "anti-envangelist"( or whatever it's called). I'm holding my thumbs up for EC and I'm really happy they decided to relase it, but after those dismissive press releases and stone walling at PAX I'm not sure that's enough to win my support back. If only you hadn't gone to damage control mode and bunker tactics...

I miss being an ME/BW fan. I couldn't wait for your new titles. Now I just feel sad every time I think of your current/upcoming titles.

Remember when DA2 came out? The demo was really nice and expectations went through the roof. But then reality set in and I bet almost everybody here was disappointed with the actualy release. It was a pretty crappy title and from what I've read BW was pressured to rush release it. The fan outcry wasn't nearly what it is now and didn't falter my fan status, probably because you didn't go on self defence/dissmiss and downplay fan outcry mode and some developers actually acknowledged that it was crap. If only you had done the same thing this time.

I'm putting all my BW/EA purchases on hold and cancelling my SW:TOR subscription until EC comes out. I encourage everybody else who want's to make an actual difference do the same, but give them the benefit of doubt. If EC delivers, give them some love back. :innocent:

Peace
-O

Modifié par Odetus-, 08 avril 2012 - 04:40 .

[McAllyster]

Another disappointed ex-evangelist:

http://thatguywithth...ut-dlc-revealed

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

It's painful because I loved these characters, this franchise... hell, this company. Yesterday I was looking at the Garrus and Tali T-shirts on the Bioware store. I was thinking about how badly I wanted to buy them, "but I can't. I have to hold the line." Not that I have $50 to spend on two shirts right now anyway, but the point stands. It was agonizing, like you've been betrayed by your best friend or your ex, and you're tempted by old memories...

[jengelb1]

I was an advocate/evangelist. Emphasis on was.

[HooblaDGN]

I, too, was an evangelist for Bioware

This ending... and, worse, the way they have dealt with its backlash, has destroyed that.

I'm hoping that at some point I can regain a little bit of faith in them. But it's going to take a lot of solid delivery and a fair bit of time.

Modifié par HooblaDGN, 09 avril 2012 - 08:23 .