184 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkin30]

Very interesting, I too was an evangelist, now, not so much

[Avalon Aurora]

I hope EA and Bioware see this post.

[Katakanasta]

It's my first post on the forum, sorry for my English

It's a great analysis. I'm a marketing and PR manager in a book publishing house. At first I was  sure that the IT is true and the ending is a part of a huge marketing campaign. I thought - what a great idea! Making a false ending to advertise a true one some time later as a free DLC (shhhhhh, I know, I know) just to show everyone that ME series is something more than a common video game. It was obvious for me - BioWare cheated their players to gain more customers encouraged by all those extremaly happy evengelists. Nice, istn't it? Totally worth additional cost of a free DLC - in perspective of course. It would build a brand of BioWare and whispering marketing would be really, really huge. It would also be something to be discussed by PR and marketing managers in many companies.

Well, I was wrong. After two or three weeks I realized that I was wrong and there is no great idea behind the ending. Still I cannot understand ahy the hell they had not seen this great opportunity of making something worth remembering and different. ME3 might be a great financial success but it's also a PR fail. Fans treat like kids, hollow promises and "artistic integrity" that has nothing in common with the game itself. Oh my, It's still hard to believe that they did something like that - and that they say they are proud of it. Almost no dialogue. Seems like great chance burried six feet under EA self-confidence.

By long-term marketing point of view there is nothing to be proud of. Calling the evangelists a "small group" is so extremaly stupid idea I just... I don't know. I'm speachless. I truly believed in the marketing campaign theory but now I feel, well, shocked? Irritated? Amazed?

[ed87]

Nice read!

[katamuro]

yeah, i was one of those evangelishts, got 4 people hooked on mass effect. now i had to tell them that me3 ending was ****. It felt bad, but I cannot trust bioware anymore with anything. When couple of months ago they said they will be doing C&C i was really excited and thought "Man they will make great C&C" but now I think they might screw it up, after all they did that with me3.

[McAllyster]

Katakanasta wrote...

It's my first post on the forum, sorry for my English

It's a great analysis. I'm a marketing and PR manager in a book publishing house. At first I was  sure that the IT is true and the ending is a part of a huge marketing campaign. I thought - what a great idea! Making a false ending to advertise a true one some time later as a free DLC (shhhhhh, I know, I know) just to show everyone that ME series is something more than a common video game. It was obvious for me - BioWare cheated their players to gain more customers encouraged by all those extremaly happy evengelists. Nice, istn't it? Totally worth additional cost of a free DLC - in perspective of course. It would build a brand of BioWare and whispering marketing would be really, really huge. It would also be something to be discussed by PR and marketing managers in many companies.

Well, I was wrong. After two or three weeks I realized that I was wrong and there is no great idea behind the ending. Still I cannot understand ahy the hell they had not seen this great opportunity of making something worth remembering and different. ME3 might be a great financial success but it's also a PR fail. Fans treat like kids, hollow promises and "artistic integrity" that has nothing in common with the game itself. Oh my, It's still hard to believe that they did something like that - and that they say they are proud of it. Almost no dialogue. Seems like great chance burried six feet under EA self-confidence.

By long-term marketing point of view there is nothing to be proud of. Calling the evangelists a "small group" is so extremaly stupid idea I just... I don't know. I'm speachless. I truly believed in the marketing campaign theory but now I feel, well, shocked? Irritated? Amazed?

As a marketer on book publishing field I think you perfectly understads this customer ladder think. I'm working as a freelancer consultant and I also had some book publisher clients

Book publishing is heavily dependant from evangelists: each author or each book series are separete "brands", and of course the publishing company is another brand too. The most loyal readers will recommend books and authors to their friends - they will be the evangelists to your company.

Book publishing is a similar industry than gaming industry.

However I never believed in this "true ending"-theory. EA is too big, too conservative company. They are not brave enough to make such a false ending in the hope of global PR. EA is a publicly traded company with big financial investors in their back. 

I worked with major, internatinal companies (with their local offices) - and they are not brave people.

- why should I care with search engine rankings? I don't want to optimize my homepage, it's perfect now!
- Facebook? OK, but why don't enough to publish my PR articles?
- Twitter? Convesation with the customer? Why the hell?
- I don't like this "social media" thing at all. Why can't I control this thing? It is much more safer to buy banners on the major news portals.

Big companies. Maybe you think they have the best marketers and they are more than eager to experience news ways of promotions. I don't know how is in the US but I think the best marketers are freelancers or working at a marketing agency. Corporate culture is definitely not encouraging you to try new ways. Corporate culture is about regulations, the usual ways, the known solutions.

The part of the problem is the ownership of the company: there is now owner! There is no owner in the sense of "one guy who owns the company". There are venture capitalists, investor companies behind these companies. These investors are not evil - they have another mindset. They cannot understand the problem. Marketing is just another amount of money for them. "We have to spend X% of our budget to marketing campaigns."

In a very few occasions there is a good, visionary leader in a publicly traded company: Steve Jobs was at Apple; Bill Gates was this guy at Microsoft; Jeff Bezos is this guy at Amazon; Larry Page and Sergey Brin at Google. These people have visions about the company, about the products - and these people have a very high understanding about the customer. These people have good financial understanding also - but they have enough understanding about the whole system. EA has not such a visionary leader. 

Because of this I never believed in this "true ending"-theory - because such a move is too brave, seems too risky for a company like EA. A smaller company like CD Projekt maybe brave enough to do a similar thing, I don't know.

However the community created a good exit for Bioware: the "Indoctrination theory". All they had to do is to pick up this theory and create a new ending after the Starchild scene: where Shepard goes to the Citadel after this "dream" and kicks some Reaper asses. But these people simply blind: they can't understand their customers, and they love the current ending as the creator of this ending.

[Shawn Marrster]

Great post. I have been an evangelist for Bioware games. Have written reviews and blogs about why people need to play them.
EA is about casual gamers = first time gamers. They believe that evangelists will stay forever loyal. Not in my case. I can't recommend ME3/DA2. All other Bioware games do I recommend or buy for my friends at hollidays/birthdays.

EA needs to Think Different
Steve Jebs -we don't ship crap. It is not about making money. It's about making the best product possible, then making money when people buys it.

[Fulgrim88]

I don't want to belittle what you're trying to show us here, but I always supposed Bioware had their own people to tell them just that.

It's really not rocket science.

But this "short term goal" sounds like a specific flaw of many US based companies, EA in particular. They have refused to see the backlash for years now, blinded by more and more revenue in each successive cycle - and it's true, they made a lot of cash in the short term.

But the strategies to do that, agressive marketing etc., will only get you so far in the long run.
I think they've reached a plateau there, both EA and the US economy in general, and they are just starting to see the tip of the Iceberg which they've been happily steering towards.

[FrozenDreamfall]

Ha and to think I was an evangelist...think I spent playing BW games more than any other and I've been playing games for 13 years now almost daily for at least 2 hours,max would be 1-2 days without stopping.Someone should take this post to EA/BW and shove it in their face,yes they lose a few core fans they still have a lot of people who don't care about the endings,are fine with it,have other things on their mind and will play some MP now and then,but these fans easily forget the series and treat it as any other game,they will move on something else faster,they are called as you said "repeat costumers" and while BW might've gained a lot of them they lost way more advocates and evangelists who would've bough anything from them,not just games,even merchandise related to it,something repeat costumers would never do,they simply play the game 2-3 times,get bored of it,move to another and that's it.So even if this bought them huge profit in the short run in the long run it will hurt them greatly,they just don't care nor realize it now cause the game was barely launched and they have their money,they'll realize in a few months to a year.

[Nightdragon8]

This is pretty much the bottom line, and the full reality of what they have done. Funny enough we are giving them a chance, but one. I figured that after the not so great feedback on DA2 that they wouldn't mess up ME3 guess I was wrong. Now they are going to have some serious sales issues from now on. Because sadly enough, we are going to tell our kids... and we are going to tell our grandkids about how "Bioware" (if they still exist by that time) pulled this big issue about "Artisic Intgerty"

[Aurica]

Love this post OP.   Word of mouth is now able to reach even more people with blogs and social media sites / tools nowadays then a decade before.

[Irishkev]

While I agree with everything you said as I am one of them loyal fans. I told my friends if you like sci fi RPG or chocies get Kotor or Mass effect if you like RPG any of the Bioware games I enjoyed them all.

Heck I even enjoyed DA2 not a great ending but it left it open for DA3 which I was expecting to be brillaint but after seeing ME3 I am not too sure now.

Now the problem I see is not the game developers per say as you said freelancers or small coperations have great customer feed back take chances and try new things Big coperations do not.

Heck my company was recently bought by the US (Not going to name it) and I was talking to one of there marketing guys and he was telling me how our company was so much customer focus that he doesnt know if that will last as we like to just give them the product and if they need any help they have to basically cough up the money. We beleive in customer loyality while I don't think the americans do from that statment

I think the problem is publishers in general in the gaming market now let me finish before you all scream KILL. look at 2015 inc, bungie,westwood maxis , bullfrog and even Bioware.

They where all good developers in there own right we can atleast name 1 game if not more that put them on the map. Now since they got bought out they release the same games over and over quicker and with less quality.

Why? The simple reason is the publusher has too much power when it buys the company given them impossible deadlines and don't want them to experirment as it cost money. which I understand they don't want to lose money. unlike when they invest in a game and help get the game out they have some say but not a lot so the developer gets to do there vision not the publushers.

A good example of this is Activiton and Call of duty infinity ward. the Developers didn't want last stand in the game but publisher did who won the publisher. then there are some developers in treyach(SP) who don't want perks at all Treyarch as he wants the game to be compterive his exact words
Dev: “Perks Are a Reason Why CoD Isn’t Natively Competitive perrks are basically a cheat in the game"
Sadly this guy won't get his wish as the publisher go with what work and will keep it in. Same from

Another dev person on that team that said Treyarch Dev: Gun Balance and Why It’s Broken. He basically said you can't balance them because of perks if we balance a gun around stopping power relaod time quick draw you will have a very weak gun without them perks if balance them without them perks in question then you could get an OP gun. He would basically like to see no perks but more guns to be class specfic.
But again publisher won't allow it as they think it will affect sales.

Which is sad when a developer making the game has less rights than the publisher. I am not sure but I think  the writer has some say in his book what to cut and what not to cut from his book the publisher can only make suggestions.

http://mp1st.com/201...why-its-broken/
http://mp1st.com/201...ly-competitive/

I could find better ones but I am at work on lunch so Time for my lunch now

Modifié par Irishkev, 09 avril 2012 - 12:17 .

[CrazyRah]

More people really should read this, an excellent post indeed! It point out several things i feel a lot of people either don't know about or don't understand enough about. The fans are the perfect marketing, free and more convincing than a banner or just another add on the internet.

As a former advocate the post state word for word what i did and don't do anymore. They lost me as a marketing asset and i got little interest or trust in the EC. Right now i feel that other companies take better care of me as a customer than Bioware

[Fraevar]

This was a great read, thank you for writing it up. I have to say, a lot of this strikes a chord with me - a friend of mine finally got into the first Mass Effect not long ago, after listening to me go on and on about how great it was for years, and he's loving it. Meanwhile I'm finding myself almost regretting getting him into it, because I'm going to have to watch him get to the end and see everything he played the series for rendered null and void.

I even finished the game in the company of two other friends over the weekend and when the credits rolled, all they had to say was: "Wait *that* is what we spent three games working towards?"

So yes, definitely a former advocate here.

[Varus Praetor]

The funny thing is, evangelists are not just that way because of their company experience. There is something about the personality of a person that makes them make the jump from loyal/advocate to evangelist. These people will remain outspoken and passionate even if they lose faith in the company they were previously evangelizing about.

BW has created an enormous group of impassioned fans who are still evangelists....but are preaching an anti-ME3 and in some cases, anti-BW message.

While the writers of ME3 certainly deserve the mounds of well founded criticism that has been going their way, the BW/EA PR department has been simply ghastly during this whole issue. The brand is more important than the product. Brand has measurable and quantifiable value. BW has tarnished theirs. We'll have to wait and see if the damage is irreparable.

[Skypezee]

If there was anything I got from the couple of business classes I took in colledge, it's the fact that you want to have those loyal customers. You should keep up with the quality of work and always deliver. If you don't, you'll end up losing those loyal customers and it can hurt your business.

I'm in the advocates group. I pretty much own all but 2 of biowares games (shattered steel and mdk2). I've hailed bioware as being one of the best RPG companies out there and to this day I still replay some of their oldest games. Mass effect was one of those rare gems that was a great sci-fi RPG along with being unique in that the player influenced and guided the story and conversations.

But then the ending to me3 rolled by and... Well, it was certainly one of the worst endings I've ever experienced in life. But what gets me even more is how bioware, EA, other gaming sites, and even other companies call fans who were displeased and want bioware to fix the endings as entitled. Yes, there are fans who are unreasonable. But to essentially alienate the group who have been loyal fans and advocating you product is going to hurt your business.

[Siegdrifa]

There is a very simple rule about business.

" A happy customer is a returning customer. "

[McAllyster]

Siegdrifa wrote...

There is a very simple rule about business.

" A happy customer is a returning customer. "

And the most happier customers are giving free advertising also.

[LotharArmoran]

Sadly, EA is a listed company. All that matters to management is the shareholders, and that means short-term gains to achieve quarterly goals to keep shareholders happy. Even if that means losing loyal customers. It's a risk that they weigh, by doing things like dumbing down the game in order to win a larger market segment (read:casual) gamers.

If you play MMOs this is the whole casuals vs hardcore debate. Hardcore players always lose out as companies will always cater to casual players first to gain more sales.

Pareto principle 80-20 yada yada

[MzAdventure]

Great post OP

[Katakanasta]

Right.

To be honest I'm not a computer games lover, I've just played Planescape: Torment and ME trilogy, so I know nothing about huge companies such as EA ;-) And I agree - people are not brave. It's always easier and safer to create a normal if even big marketing campaign than to create something new that may be not understandable.

Hey, just try to imagine...
ME3, the last part of great and successfull trilogy. Many fans so we might be sure that it would be a bestseller. Well, what can we do to increase selling? And to gain free marketing? And to build up our brand?
Yes, false ending. And then - after two or three weeks (depend of how dangerous the **** storm is) we will announce the true ending of the story. And we will tell our fans we are listening to them, we love them and respect them so we're giving the ending DLC for free, as an immanent part of the story.

BW Legend - achievement unlocked.

It's not about the ending itself, not about if you like it or not, it's all about marketing Long term. Just my pretty but useless vision ;-)

But if even if this vision was some kind of a daydream, I still cannot understand the way BW and EA answers the fans questions. You don't need to be a genius to know that it's easy to offend people, especially those who once loved you. Strange.

[Skypezee]

McAllyster wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

There is a very simple rule about business.

" A happy customer is a returning customer. "

And the most happier customers are giving free advertising also.

And yet if you have unhappy customers then they're going to start telling people how much the company sucks.
Word of mouth can be a very powerful thing.

[Occulo]

Your English is perfectly understandable, OP. Thanks for the thread.

I guess I was a moderate advocate, and Mass Effect 3, specifically the entire genophage arc, nearly turned me into an evangelist. Well, no, it did turn me into an evangelist. I talked to all my friends and family members about it, how it made me cry. I remembered his nephew...

Even though I have BioWare's previous games, going all the way back to the first Baldur's Gate, it took Mass Effect 3 to get me to start talking about the company and the games like an "evangelist". Now I still talk about the company and their games, but not in a way that would encourage sales...

Unhappy customers talk more about a product and brand than merely content customers...

Modifié par Occulo, 09 avril 2012 - 03:02 .

[PhoenixDove1]

This is a great post. Turns out I was an advocate. Was being the right word there. You'd think it'd be easy, but nothing ever is. Like OP said in another post there is no one person who stears EA, I was just hoping there was one person to stear Bioware so they could convince EA to help avoid problems like this :/