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Why is it OK for Shepard to live in extended cut Red ending if he still commits genocide?


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#326
M0keys

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Joy Sauce wrote...

I think it's simply that BioWare felt that Shepard "needed" to sacrifice himself for the sake of an "artistic" ending. By making the destroy option the least appealing (assuming you take everything at face value) & the only one that would allow Shepard to survive would make most players choose an ending where Shepard nobly sacrifices him/herself, because only an **** would be unwilling to sacrifice himself for the greater good. Of course this argument falls apart if you played the game without walkthroughs or anything, because the player goes in assuming that all endings will kill you, but it was just a thought.


That just seems like punishing players though, doesn't it?  :(

I always got the feeling throughout the series that although the choices were limited, they were almost always what suited what you wanted Shepard to be as a character. Like they analyzed things and figured out how to have the choices be as widely appealing as possible while fitting within the framework of the games.

#327
Jacobcus

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

anlk92 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

M0keys wrote...

Just wondering how Bioware thinks the player avatar commiting total genocide of an entire race of sentient, friendly beings is supposed to give us, as they said at PAX, satisfaction?

Who do they think their player base is? Genocide isn't cool :(

You've already done it a couple of times in Mass Effect. ME2 especially.


...I... I did?

When?


With Collectors I guess. Though that's obviously not the same thing and we just blew up their home really. There must be some more of them left scattered around the galaxy.

Arrival and the Heretic Geth as well.

Nah all Collectors died, they only used that one ship the rest stayed on base Im assuming, Ship got destroyed near base, so that was all of'em.

#328
T-0pel

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Great response Alan. I am just doing my second playthrough after a month of not being able to replay the single player. And I agree, the best parts of this game are Curing the genophage and quarian/geth peace. It is just handled perfectly from every angle imaginable. It takes desecions from this and previous games to account, it is very emotional, music is beyond perfect (especially Future for the Krogan track, that one is insane) and while there is always a sacrifice, in the end it makes me feel it was worth it.
Nothing like this happens at the end, war assets now count only towards crucible not towards any battle. All choices are very very bleak and my sacrifice does not even make me fell that anything was worth it, it even manages to do quite the opposite..
And that Normandy scene... Yeah... :-(
Only thing really great about the ending is music, again...

#329
Velocithon

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

*snip*


I just want to say thanks for that post.

I can see where you are coming from, and while I still do like the ending, I think I understand a little more why Bioware chose the path they did, such as how you mention this is Shepards story, so it's fitting to have the end open-ended since Shepard herself would not know.

Not saying I like it, but still.

Hopefully, this new DLC will show the Geth and Rachni fighting, and show scenes related to out War Assets more.
While I see that ME1 and ME2 ultimately have the same ending, I disagree that ME3 should. ME3 is the finale. The end. It should have, literally, completely different endings.

Modifié par Velocithon, 07 avril 2012 - 10:26 .


#330
Stygian1

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Responding at the risk that my response somehow be interpreted as an "official" response.... :lol:

As a show of good faith though, I'll share my thoughts.  It's important to note here that I finished the game probably around the 14th, so I had heard rumors about how bad the ending was so I went into it preparing for some awful stuff to happen, which made me innately more accepting of whatever it was I was about to see.


On the whole, I found the ending to be a let down compared to the rest of the game.  I think this is more of a reflection of how highly I thought of the rest of the game than anything else though.  Rannoch and Tuchanka were phenomenol, and the usage of the ME1 theme at those points brings me goosebumps just typing about it now.  So yeah, the ending wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the game.


I found the ending choices to be too inspired by the original Deus Ex, but I also didn't outright mind the scene on the Citadel, even if I found it strange and a Diabolus Ex Machina.  The thing for me was that the Crucible was a giant unknown, so it wasn't too difficult for me to accept that it might react in ways that I didn't expect or didn't necessarily want though, so the options presented to me weren't enough to remove my suspension of disbelief.  As a result I didn't mind the relays getting destroyed (I haven't played Arrival so I had no prior idea for what might happen when a relay is destroyed).


As for Joker, I didn't actually think much at the time as to WHY Joker was running, but I did find the garden planet scene confusing.  In retrospect, I wouldn't have included the stuff with the Normandy because I found it confusing.

With respect to explanation, I'm assuming you're referring to some type of closure?  I am not actually the type of person that needs all that much explanation of what happens after.  While there's definitely a part of me that would love to know what happens in the immediate aftermath, there's also a part of me that associates the game as being Shepard's story, and that part of me likes that I, as the game player, have to make my decision knowing that I'll not know the full implications of my decision, just like Shepard.  And I actually did enjoy wondering what happens to the galaxy and have had some fun discussions with some friends and co-workers about it.  I think the big thing here is whether or not you believe the galaxy is totally kaput (I don't.  And I'm saying that with no additional information and I don't want anyone to think that i'm hinting towards anything for the upcoming ending DLC or anything like that).


Regarding War Assets, after the game and reading some of the thoughts around the Net, I started to wonder if I misunderstood the real representation of the War Assets.  I think I am like a lot of other people, in that we saw War Assets as being a kickass military asset.  Though given the way the endings play out with lower war score, it seems there's more emphasis on the War Assets as a team building/protecting the crucible, as opposed to the ability to fight the reapers.  I would have loved to see situations on Earth that demonstrated my choices, such as fighting along Geth/Rachni, etc.  It's a shame that it didn't happen the way I had hoped.


As for "options," this is going to be a place where I likely differ in opinion from a lot of fans.  I've actually always considered Mass Effect's choices to be more superficial than a lot of other people, especially when concerning the key antagonist.  In the end my only option in ME1 is to defeat  Saren and Sovereign.  I can talk Saren down but ultimately still had to fight in in some capacity (I hated this actually... I would have loved to just talk Saren down and let that be the end of it).  ME2 has some interesting reactivity in whether or not parts of your squad survive, but to me the same ultimate ending happens, just with differences in who makes the end.  Only at the end are we presented with a choice and it doesn't have any effect on the ending for ME2.

So would I have loved more choice in ME3's ending?  Yes.  But I'd have also loved more choice in ME1 and ME2's ending, which I felt were sorely lacking.  So I hesitate to state that my disappointment with ME3's choice is a reflection of solely ME3's ending.  I think it was an issue with all 3 Mass Effect games.


Anyways, I am actually getting quite hungry and should go get some food.  I obviously don't respond too much but I'll try to make an effort to chime in later if people have any relevant comments.



EDIT: Wall of text crits you all for 9999.... :whistle:



Hey this means a lot, having an unbiased response from a BioWare employee. :innocent: 
I can't tell you how awesome it feels, its hard to be critical of someone who speaks their mind so genuinally. 


Can I ask you this though? Did you have any problem with the explanation of the Reapers and the Star Child's motives? I mean the Star Child blatantly states that Synthetics and Organics cannot co-exist, yet every example we have of Synthetic/Organic relations has been one that has (or can be) turned positive. 

Did you find this theme misplaced? Also, did you feel as if the entire "strength through diversity" theme was dragged through the mud? Because I certaintly felt so, especially with the synthesis choice tacked on to an ending that I already felt contradictory to the rest of the storyline's central themes. 

Again thanks, any response would warm my heart full of internet fuzzies. :lol:

Modifié par Stygian1, 07 avril 2012 - 10:27 .


#331
alienatedflea

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Provo_101 wrote...

Don't tell that to EDI.

I didn't see anyone in ME2...when shepard commits a partial "genocide" on Legion's loyalty mission....

#332
M0keys

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alienatedflea wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

Don't tell that to EDI.

I didn't see anyone in ME2...when shepard commits a partial "genocide" on Legion's loyalty mission....


Probably because they were bad guys. But even then, I didn't commit genocide. I didn't like rewriting them either. It was a difficult choice, but I felt that giving them a chance at this point was better than genocide. Even if they were basically slaves.

That sounds terrible, but even then it didn't decide the ultimate outcome of the entire story. I felt like there would be a chance to reconcile things in some better way.

#333
DaosX

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Norman250 wrote...

DaosX wrote...

Thanks for the input. It's a little reassuring to see that there's at least one person in BW who seems like an actual human being with real thoughts and opinions rather than a PR machine.



To be fair, he has the luxury of it not being is own work. If anyone on the ME team expresses dislike for the endings, hundreds of people would clamor, "OH, BIOWARE MUST BE PLANNING ON MAJORLY CHANGING IT"


I actually don't agree. If there's one thing about people as a whole, it's that we generally don't agree with just about anything. If a ME3 artist or programmer that played the game gave his own OPINION on the game, it'd just mean that he has an opinion. An artist/programmer do not have much, if any, influence on the story (or in this case, ending). They either design the looks of the characters/environments or the code behind everything. It's the writers and producers to be wary of...because they DID write it. The way it plays out is a direct result of how they planned it.

#334
Jacobcus

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M0keys wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

Don't tell that to EDI.

I didn't see anyone in ME2...when shepard commits a partial "genocide" on Legion's loyalty mission....


Probably because they were bad guys. But even then, I didn't commit genocide. I didn't like rewriting them either. It was a difficult choice, but I felt that giving them a chance at this point was better than genocide. Even if they were basically slaves.

That sounds terrible, but even then it didn't decide the ultimate outcome of the entire story. I felt like there would be a chance to reconcile things in some better way.

Rewriting them didn't control them, it gave them the choice of free will, and to choose to side with Reapers or not, some did, some didn't.

#335
anlk92

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arrival and the Heretic Geth as well.


As far as I remember it was either let the Heretics rewrite other Geth or destroy/rewrite Heretics themselves. So we didn't have much of a choice really. And Arrival wasn't Shepard's doing.

Modifié par anlk92, 07 avril 2012 - 10:29 .


#336
Lonsecia

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alienatedflea wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

The kid said Destroy would kill Shepard.

It didn't. So who's to say Destroy killed the Geth?

And many people have seen Edi step out of the Normandy when they chose Destroy. I wasn't one of them though. (Part of my reason for picking Destroy was to get rid of her anyway.)

The kid didnt say shepard would die if he chose destroy...he said that even shepard is partly synthetic...doesnt mean shepard would die...CLEARLY we see this at the end.  Genocide only applies to organics...Not synthetics...


I'd argue that the only reason genocide doesn't apply to synthetics is lack of precedent. If we had real A.I on Earth right now, that could think and function at the same level as EDI, would you be okay with them all being wiped out by some anti-tech terrorists? I wouldn't be. Likewise, I'd not feel comfortable if said collective A.I were being used as slaves/tools.

Also I believe the line is something akin to 'it will destroy all synthetics, and as you're part synthetic...' which is why most people see it as a threat/indication that you will die.

#337
legion999

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

anlk92 wrote...

M0keys wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

M0keys wrote...

Just wondering how Bioware thinks the player avatar commiting total genocide of an entire race of sentient, friendly beings is supposed to give us, as they said at PAX, satisfaction?

Who do they think their player base is? Genocide isn't cool :(

You've already done it a couple of times in Mass Effect. ME2 especially.


...I... I did?

When?


With Collectors I guess. Though that's obviously not the same thing and we just blew up their home really. There must be some more of them left scattered around the galaxy.

Arrival and the Heretic Geth as well.


Collectors were Husks.
Batarians were dead no matter what you did. Better to die quickly than be huskified.
And the Heretics were attempting to wipe us out for the Reapers. I feel no regret for them or their masters.

PS Those last two choices were optional.

#338
M0keys

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DaosX wrote...

Norman250 wrote...

DaosX wrote...

Thanks for the input. It's a little reassuring to see that there's at least one person in BW who seems like an actual human being with real thoughts and opinions rather than a PR machine.



To be fair, he has the luxury of it not being is own work. If anyone on the ME team expresses dislike for the endings, hundreds of people would clamor, "OH, BIOWARE MUST BE PLANNING ON MAJORLY CHANGING IT"


I actually don't agree. If there's one thing about people as a whole, it's that we generally don't agree with just about anything. If a ME3 artist or programmer that played the game gave his own OPINION on the game, it'd just mean that he has an opinion. An artist/programmer do not have much, if any, influence on the story (or in this case, ending). They either design the looks of the characters/environments or the code behind everything. It's the writers and producers to be wary of...because they DID write it. The way it plays out is a direct result of how they planned it.


He's not on the Mass Effect team. He's a QA guy for the Dragon Age team. Try not to confuse what he does :)

#339
kidbd15

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Responding at the risk that my response somehow be interpreted as an "official" response.... :lol:

As a show of good faith though, I'll share my thoughts.  It's important to note here that I finished the game probably around the 14th, so I had heard rumors about how bad the ending was so I went into it preparing for some awful stuff to happen, which made me innately more accepting of whatever it was I was about to see.


On the whole, I found the ending to be a let down compared to the rest of the game.  I think this is more of a reflection of how highly I thought of the rest of the game than anything else though.  Rannoch and Tuchanka were phenomenol, and the usage of the ME1 theme at those points brings me goosebumps just typing about it now.  So yeah, the ending wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the game.


I found the ending choices to be too inspired by the original Deus Ex, but I also didn't outright mind the scene on the Citadel, even if I found it strange and a Diabolus Ex Machina.  The thing for me was that the Crucible was a giant unknown, so it wasn't too difficult for me to accept that it might react in ways that I didn't expect or didn't necessarily want though, so the options presented to me weren't enough to remove my suspension of disbelief.  As a result I didn't mind the relays getting destroyed (I haven't played Arrival so I had no prior idea for what might happen when a relay is destroyed).


As for Joker, I didn't actually think much at the time as to WHY Joker was running, but I did find the garden planet scene confusing.  In retrospect, I wouldn't have included the stuff with the Normandy because I found it confusing.

With respect to explanation, I'm assuming you're referring to some type of closure?  I am not actually the type of person that needs all that much explanation of what happens after.  While there's definitely a part of me that would love to know what happens in the immediate aftermath, there's also a part of me that associates the game as being Shepard's story, and that part of me likes that I, as the game player, have to make my decision knowing that I'll not know the full implications of my decision, just like Shepard.  And I actually did enjoy wondering what happens to the galaxy and have had some fun discussions with some friends and co-workers about it.  I think the big thing here is whether or not you believe the galaxy is totally kaput (I don't.  And I'm saying that with no additional information and I don't want anyone to think that i'm hinting towards anything for the upcoming ending DLC or anything like that).


Regarding War Assets, after the game and reading some of the thoughts around the Net, I started to wonder if I misunderstood the real representation of the War Assets.  I think I am like a lot of other people, in that we saw War Assets as being a kickass military asset.  Though given the way the endings play out with lower war score, it seems there's more emphasis on the War Assets as a team building/protecting the crucible, as opposed to the ability to fight the reapers.  I would have loved to see situations on Earth that demonstrated my choices, such as fighting along Geth/Rachni, etc.  It's a shame that it didn't happen the way I had hoped.


As for "options," this is going to be a place where I likely differ in opinion from a lot of fans.  I've actually always considered Mass Effect's choices to be more superficial than a lot of other people, especially when concerning the key antagonist.  In the end my only option in ME1 is to defeat  Saren and Sovereign.  I can talk Saren down but ultimately still had to fight in in some capacity (I hated this actually... I would have loved to just talk Saren down and let that be the end of it).  ME2 has some interesting reactivity in whether or not parts of your squad survive, but to me the same ultimate ending happens, just with differences in who makes the end.  Only at the end are we presented with a choice and it doesn't have any effect on the ending for ME2.

So would I have loved more choice in ME3's ending?  Yes.  But I'd have also loved more choice in ME1 and ME2's ending, which I felt were sorely lacking.  So I hesitate to state that my disappointment with ME3's choice is a reflection of solely ME3's ending.  I think it was an issue with all 3 Mass Effect games.


Anyways, I am actually getting quite hungry and should go get some food.  I obviously don't respond too much but I'll try to make an effort to chime in later if people have any relevant comments.



EDIT: Wall of text crits you all for 9999.... :whistle:



Thank you for your responses! It's genuinely awesome to hear BioWare feedback themselves. 

Did you feel that the lack of dialogue with Starchild was disappointing?  With the Red ending, I would have liked to discuss the geth and quarians, and not have to take the Starchild at his word.  I mean, the lives of billions of people are at stake, my Shep would definitely want to ask at least a few more questions lol :lol:

#340
Girlfrakker69

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alienatedflea wrote...
I didn't see anyone in ME2...when shepard commits a partial "genocide" on Legion's loyalty mission....


Don't forget ... Legion forces Shepard to choose between smallpox (Destroy) and cholera (Indoctrinate/Rewrite). It's not a solution open for discussion.

#341
Jamie9

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Nice to see a BioWare response (even if you didn't work on the game Mr. Schumacher - or Allen if you'd prefer - that blue BioWare symbol is refreshing).

I admit that ME1 and ME2 did have the same problems with choice as the third game. The thing is, I felt that 1 and 2 did a better job at creating the illusion of choice. We were okay with it because the developers managed to walk that fine line between choices mattering and being meaningless.

ME2 had the suicide mission. ME3 had Tuchanka. These missions were so good and varied on player choice so well that we, naturally, expected the final mission of the Trilogy to be the best mission. And it wasn't. Unfortunate, but yeah.

I'm much more annoyed by the blatant lies/deceptions in the interviews close to launch and the game going gold. The trust between BioWare and myself has been severed. That's what made it really bad. If we needed an ABC ending (which they directly said we wouldn't get), why not make them vastly different? The cutscene is, what, 2 minutes long?

I understand those cutscenes were very high detail and very packed with stuff happening but it's the ending to the Trilogy!

/on topic. It's the only ending where you don't get disintegrated. This doesn't suggest positive or negative connotations to the fact that Shepard lives when choosing destroy. In other words, I think the genocide of the Geth and Shepard living are not directly related.

#342
Dean_the_Young

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anlk92 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arrival and the Heretic Geth as well.


As far as I remember it was either let the Heretics rewrite other Geth or destroy/rewrite Heretics themselves. So we didn't have much of a choice really. And Arrival wasn't Shepard's doing.

You always had the choice of not going on the mission, or not starting the Project. (Well, to rephrase: you could wait out the clock on Arrival, and let the Reapers arrive).

Regardless of whether there was an option not to, Shepard has conducted genocide to get to the end. Every Reaper could qualify, even.

#343
Girlfrakker69

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kidbd15 wrote...
Did you feel that the lack of dialogue with Starchild was disappointing?  With the Red ending, I would have liked to discuss the geth and quarians, and not have to take the Starchild at his word.  I mean, the lives of billions of people are at stake, my Shep would definitely want to ask at least a few more questions lol :lol:


Yep ... I would have loved to shove some logical dialogue down the spacekid's virtual throat ... and also tell this super-evolved AI one or two things about circular logic.

#344
Auralius Carolus

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You guys and your bleeding hearts.

Even if you view AI as life forms, Shepard is doing what NO OTHER PERSON HAS BEEN ABLE TO and yet you still wish to judge him? You think the Reapers, or any other tyrannical forces out there, care about a sense of honor or morality? No, they don't- they use it against those of us that do. War isn't all rainbows and butterflies because evil doesn't play by the rules.

So if some stupid glowing kid tells me that there is one way that I can be sure that I will save countless lives, and all other possibilities require me to die first to find out- potentially removing the one cog in the Reaper Wheel- I'm taking that one route bloody route. There's no "back down" choice and grabbing some electrodes or thowing myself into a laser sounds like the most poorly thought out attempt to trick me into committing suicide I've ever heard.

#345
Dean_the_Young

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legion999 wrote...

Collectors were Husks.

Irrelevant to being genoicde.

Batarians were dead no matter what you did. Better to die quickly than be huskified.

Irrelevant to being genocide.

And the Heretics were attempting to wipe us out for the Reapers. I feel no regret for them or their masters.

PS Those last two choices were optional.

Still irrelevant to being genoicde... and Arrival is canonical.

#346
Aramina

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Responding at the risk that my response somehow be interpreted as an "official" response.... :lol:

As a show of good faith though, I'll share my thoughts.  It's important to note here that I finished the game probably around the 14th, so I had heard rumors about how bad the ending was so I went into it preparing for some awful stuff to happen, which made me innately more accepting of whatever it was I was about to see.


On the whole, I found the ending to be a let down compared to the rest of the game.  I think this is more of a reflection of how highly I thought of the rest of the game than anything else though.  Rannoch and Tuchanka were phenomenol, and the usage of the ME1 theme at those points brings me goosebumps just typing about it now.  So yeah, the ending wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the game.


I found the ending choices to be too inspired by the original Deus Ex, but I also didn't outright mind the scene on the Citadel, even if I found it strange and a Diabolus Ex Machina.  The thing for me was that the Crucible was a giant unknown, so it wasn't too difficult for me to accept that it might react in ways that I didn't expect or didn't necessarily want though, so the options presented to me weren't enough to remove my suspension of disbelief.  As a result I didn't mind the relays getting destroyed (I haven't played Arrival so I had no prior idea for what might happen when a relay is destroyed).


As for Joker, I didn't actually think much at the time as to WHY Joker was running, but I did find the garden planet scene confusing.  In retrospect, I wouldn't have included the stuff with the Normandy because I found it confusing.

With respect to explanation, I'm assuming you're referring to some type of closure?  I am not actually the type of person that needs all that much explanation of what happens after.  While there's definitely a part of me that would love to know what happens in the immediate aftermath, there's also a part of me that associates the game as being Shepard's story, and that part of me likes that I, as the game player, have to make my decision knowing that I'll not know the full implications of my decision, just like Shepard.  And I actually did enjoy wondering what happens to the galaxy and have had some fun discussions with some friends and co-workers about it.  I think the big thing here is whether or not you believe the galaxy is totally kaput (I don't.  And I'm saying that with no additional information and I don't want anyone to think that i'm hinting towards anything for the upcoming ending DLC or anything like that).


Regarding War Assets, after the game and reading some of the thoughts around the Net, I started to wonder if I misunderstood the real representation of the War Assets.  I think I am like a lot of other people, in that we saw War Assets as being a kickass military asset.  Though given the way the endings play out with lower war score, it seems there's more emphasis on the War Assets as a team building/protecting the crucible, as opposed to the ability to fight the reapers.  I would have loved to see situations on Earth that demonstrated my choices, such as fighting along Geth/Rachni, etc.  It's a shame that it didn't happen the way I had hoped.


As for "options," this is going to be a place where I likely differ in opinion from a lot of fans.  I've actually always considered Mass Effect's choices to be more superficial than a lot of other people, especially when concerning the key antagonist.  In the end my only option in ME1 is to defeat  Saren and Sovereign.  I can talk Saren down but ultimately still had to fight in in some capacity (I hated this actually... I would have loved to just talk Saren down and let that be the end of it).  ME2 has some interesting reactivity in whether or not parts of your squad survive, but to me the same ultimate ending happens, just with differences in who makes the end.  Only at the end are we presented with a choice and it doesn't have any effect on the ending for ME2.

So would I have loved more choice in ME3's ending?  Yes.  But I'd have also loved more choice in ME1 and ME2's ending, which I felt were sorely lacking.  So I hesitate to state that my disappointment with ME3's choice is a reflection of solely ME3's ending.  I think it was an issue with all 3 Mass Effect games.


Anyways, I am actually getting quite hungry and should go get some food.  I obviously don't respond too much but I'll try to make an effort to chime in later if people have any relevant comments.



EDIT: Wall of text crits you all for 9999.... :whistle:


Thanks for taking the time to respond, and don't worry, I won't take what you said as gospel :)

At the risk of sounding too much like someone who shall not be named here, I always felt that in the previous ME games, it was the journey that really mattered. I'm a hardcore RPG fan (I grew up playing Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale), and I love being able to make a game my own story, but I also recognize that at some point I do have to get back to the "real" story, especially in a game with a sequel. As awesome as it would have been in Baldur's Gate if my char could have just "Screw it, I'm on the first boat to Maztica," I knew that my own ideas about how the story should be still had to mesh with the story the writers wanted to tell.

I promise I do have a point to this ;) While I know that the ending of a game all about choices has to be one that ties in a bunch of different playstyles, it is ultimately everything I did up to that point that make the ending truly unique. Keeping the Baldur's Gate example:  the end of ToB lets you become a god if you want to, or turn down the power and live as a mortal. On the surface, it seems like these are just two choices that have nothing to do with anything I did earlier. I could play a supervillain or a paladin and get the same two choices. But wait! If I played as a demon incarnate and become a god, the realms would shake in fear at the sound of my name. And who knows, even the evil ones could have reason to fear...just like Cyric said, I gotta steal someone's portfolio. I could have my bro Sarevok as my evil henchman, or I could have stabbed him in the back earlier. And if I decided that I didn't want the power of a god? Maybe I decided that being a god was lame and too restrictive. What if I wanted to murder and be a tyrant? Stay quasi-mortal and do both! On the other hand, being a good girl would usher in a new age for goodness and righteous butt-kicking, with Minsc as my right-hand man! Or I could refuse the evil taint and stay mortal with my LI. I have a small army of mods installed, so I actually got some choice, though granted my preferences are a little...unconventional. The new Keldorn LI mod is my fav so far, and I have a few saves that I run with a Sarevok one. So while on the surface the journey didn't matter much, when I get into my character's head, it makes all the difference in the world.

I have a question for you if you don't mind answering it. You said you don't mind ambiguous endings. Is there a "sweet spot" of ambiguity/closure that you like? Wether it's cutscenes, BG/DA stye epilogue slides, a mix of both? Personally I prefer epilogue slides over cutscenes. It lets me have a sense of what's happening, while leaving it open enough to add my own spin on things. Cutscenes are always appreciated, but it's so easy to make them too ambigous (I'm looking right at you, ME3), and instead of some closure with room for interpretation I get confusion.

Anyway, just curious as to your personal opinion on what makes a good ending.

#347
M0keys

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

You guys and your bleeding hearts.

Even if you view AI as life forms, Shepard is doing what NO OTHER PERSON HAS BEEN ABLE TO and yet you still wish to judge him? You think the Reapers, or any other tyrannical forces out there, care about a sense of honor or morality? No, they don't- they use it against those of us that do.


Then we use our brains, since we're also smart and not just "bleeding hearts," and figure out a way to preserve life without giving in to the choices of a Reaper.

Mass Effect, as a series, is a test of our race, to see if we're strong enough to survive the challenges of evolution or what have you.

As far as I know, Mass Effect tells us we're going to fail.

#348
lillitheris

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Why? Why not?

It's the Renegade choice. You sacrifice others so that you can live (and no-one's the wiser if you don't tell them, so you can privately agonize over it later if you're prone to that.)

#349
Stygian1

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Collectors were Husks.

Irrelevant to being genoicde.

Batarians were dead no matter what you did. Better to die quickly than be huskified.

Irrelevant to being genocide.

And the Heretics were attempting to wipe us out for the Reapers. I feel no regret for them or their masters.

PS Those last two choices were optional.

Still irrelevant to being genoicde... and Arrival is canonical.


Umm the Collectors weren't argueably a race or even alive so.... no genocide. I mean really. Killing the Batarians was not optional, they were dead either way (also, look up genocide, no race or culture was destroyed). The Heretics, my paragon Shepard didn't kill them. 

So no, there is no real "canon genocide" Shepard is guilty of. 

#350
Bill Casey

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Destroy is the only Paragon choice...