808 réponses à ce sujet

[Fawx9]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Unless shepard already was at odds with the geth, like didn't 100 percent get along with legion, didn't see them as sentient life anyway, as my renegade vanguard who chose genocide because he could care less about the geth, i dont see it being the choice for any paragon shepard.

Then what is a choice for a paragon Shepard? You have blue that makes you the supreme dictator and makes you pray that you can keep your sanity while keeping the reapers under control, or green which does **** all except make flashy explosions and blows up relays.

I mean seriously, green is the most convoluted pile of high fantasy made up poop I have ever heard of. Did no one stop to think that it doesn't actually solve the creator vs creater problem.

Anyone can still make a species that wipes out all life. If a rogue group of scientists called InGen got together and made dinosaurs that could shoot thanix cannons and fly through space, cause they thought they could put them in a park,  then galactic civilization would still fall and synthesis' only boon would have been making people easier to find at night.

You obviously have no real clue as to what you are talking about.

Tell me then, what does synthesis accomplish outside of making us glowing flashlights? Cause last I checked we could still invent stuff, and that stuff could still wipe us out.

[Legendaryred]

Synthetics are not really a threat as the reapers make it believe. It was only a threat on ME1 because it was only the alliance fighting geth, if all organics ally together they could wipe the geth in one single blow.

[DevilBeast]

Manton-X2 wrote...

If you take what glowboy says as truth then it goes way beyond that. We know that Shepard will die because he is part synthetic. From talks with EDI you find out that Shepard is completely human with implants (and none of those are in his brain). So, you can pretty easily extrapolate that if it's killing him because he has implants, then everyone with implants potentially dies along with the entire Geth race. That includes:

- Quarians (heavily modified with cybernetic implants)
- All biotics of every race (these implants tied directly into their nervous systems)
- All Asari (since all Asari are biotics)
- In fact, anyone with heavy implant modifications (which is the majority of the Citadel races)

But it doesn't stop there. In the majority of the galaxy where they don't even know these events are taking place people would be dropping dead. Such as a place at the tech level of , say, our current world. I'm guessing all those heart patients with pacemakers and artificial hearts are toast.

With one choice, hastily accepted, Shepard basically becomes the murderer of more people and races than any organic in the history of the universe - you're talking a death toll in the billions, if not trillions depending on how wide spread life is. Not exactly that hero legacy I was hoping for.

MX2

One correction: Asari don´t need implants because they naturally evolved into becoming biotics. They can however sometimes use implants to further their abilities (like the asari commandos you help by finding some schematics for).

[Esquin]

Allan what about the total lack of closure?

I can accept that the catalyst is a totally insane AI with no idea what he is talking about or what he's doing. I just wish I could call him out for it.

I can accept the relays being destroyed. It's symbolic, they have to go for life to develop without the reapers.

I can accept Shep dying, though the way it was done was kind of pathetic. My Shep would never have accepted those choices. Not ever.

But what about the teleporting squad mates, Joker suddenly becoming a coward, and the total refusal of bioware to show us any of the consequences of our ending on the larger galaxy? What about all of that?

[QuarkZ26]

M0keys wrote...

QuarkZ26 wrote...

Girlfrakker69 wrote...

kidbd15 wrote...
Did you feel that the lack of dialogue with Starchild was disappointing?  With the Red ending, I would have liked to discuss the geth and quarians, and not have to take the Starchild at his word.  I mean, the lives of billions of people are at stake, my Shep would definitely want to ask at least a few more questions lol

Yep ... I would have loved to shove some logical dialogue down the spacekid's virtual throat ... and also tell this super-evolved AI one or two things about circular logic.

You can't really call it circular logic, although some people make it look like that.
Casper actually wants to preserve life in some way. Its (flawed) logic is that it's better to keep the less evolved species alive than risking ALL of them to disappear.

- Organics make synthetics, synthetics rebel and think organics are a threat, they kill everyone.

Response from Casper:
- Kill evolved species so they don't rebuild synthetics and let the primitive ones evolve, repeat.

Although i don't like the ending, it's actually a correct response. Where it's flawed is that it's based on speculations from Casper.
Someone said, the creator of the reapers might have witnessed that and that's why he thought this was still a better option to preserve life than risking its total anihilation.

Sure, you can argue that it might not happen based on the story between the Geth and the Quarians. But also you can't say that it could never happen as well.

And there you have the logic of Casper, not a circular one (since its goal is not to destroy ALL life), but a speculative one. One that says "I could be as right as you"

Like i said i didn't like it, mainly because it doesn't fit with ME1 and 2, but it's wrong to say it's not logic (providing that you ignore the 2 first episodes of course)


And thanks Allan for an honest opnion (finally!)

It's not circular, but it's certainly flawed. The Starchild sees life solely as a string of "synthetics kill organics," that life has no reason to exist other than to die to keep synthetics from killing them. It doesn't understand the purpose of life growing or living. It sees them as tiny little numbers, and somehow the Starchild and the Reapers have been programmed by something or rather to focus on only that.

Kirk would make the Starchild's head explode if he was in the game, but sadly he wasn't.

It is flawed, but if you take it as a purely logical solution, it works. It doesn't take into account feelings or blabla, but it still considers life as being important enough that it has to be preserved.

[vinlandhammer]

correct me if i'm wrong, but what bioware is saying is they wont change the end but they will remake the end making it the same but with different "look" but leaving the whole problem there?

[Nightwriter]

KDD-0063 wrote...

Even if star child isn't lying
keep in mind that his perspective is fairly limited. He doesn't know everything.

We have no reason to think he was lying and no reason to think he was telling the truth. It's inconclusive. Until such time as BioWare sheds light on the subject, which it likely won't, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't just assume the Starbrat was BioWare's mouthpiece on this, since there are no alternative sources of information on the subject.

Also, "maybe he was lying" just seems like wishful thinking to me.

As does, "maybe he doesn't know everything," though that sounds considerably better.

[Femlob]

Kudos to Allan Schumacher for replying like anyone would instead of like the PR drones we've seen pass by in the last few days, even though I disagree with some of his sentiments.

Also, I want my face back. Wall of text crits hurt, yo.

[Allan Schumacher]

Visserian99 wrote...

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I agree with parts of it myself, particularly the love for the Rannoch and Tunchanka parts. I am forced to disagree with your assessment on the ME choices being superficial. While on a meta-level you can definitely argue that they are, on the more personal level they don't feel like they are, and thats why I loved to make sure I did them anyway. Sure letting Samara die for instance, doesn't influence much, but on a personal level I liked her story and her sense of tragedy and pushed me forward to make sure she and eventually her daughter survived. 

As you point this out, superficial may not have been the best usage of the word ever.  I absolutely think that these types of choices should still exist in the game, because even if the game doesn't particularly respond to it explicitly, it does still affect the player.

[Valo_Soren]

Fawx9 wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Unless shepard already was at odds with the geth, like didn't 100 percent get along with legion, didn't see them as sentient life anyway, as my renegade vanguard who chose genocide because he could care less about the geth, i dont see it being the choice for any paragon shepard.

Then what is a choice for a paragon Shepard? You have blue that makes you the supreme dictator and makes you pray that you can keep your sanity while keeping the reapers under control, or green which does **** all except make flashy explosions and blows up relays.

I mean seriously, green is the most convoluted pile of high fantasy made up poop I have ever heard of. Did no one stop to think that it doesn't actually solve the creator vs creater problem.

Anyone can still make a species that wipes out all life. If a rogue group of scientists called InGen got together and made dinosaurs that could shoot thanix cannons and fly through space, cause they thought they could put them in a park,  then galactic civilization would still fall and synthesis' only boon would have been making people easier to find at night.

You obviously have no real clue as to what you are talking about.

Tell me then, what does synthesis accomplish outside of making us glowing flashlights? Cause last I checked we could still invent stuff, and that stuff could still wipe us out.

If you can't understand it yourself then any explanation I give you won't work either, you apparently didn't pay attention to the Catalyst at all during the last part of the game.

[M0keys]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Visserian99 wrote...

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I agree with parts of it myself, particularly the love for the Rannoch and Tunchanka parts. I am forced to disagree with your assessment on the ME choices being superficial. While on a meta-level you can definitely argue that they are, on the more personal level they don't feel like they are, and thats why I loved to make sure I did them anyway. Sure letting Samara die for instance, doesn't influence much, but on a personal level I liked her story and her sense of tragedy and pushed me forward to make sure she and eventually her daughter survived. 

As you point this out, superficial may not have been the best usage of the word ever.  I absolutely think that these types of choices should still exist in the game, because even if the game doesn't particularly respond to it explicitly, it does still affect the player.

Absolutely.

We all know that we aren't truly getting choices like we do in real life. We know they're all written and planned for.

But perhaps the most important thing in all of storytelling is the willing suspension of disbelief. Make us do that, and our "ultimately fake choices" end up feeling very real if they're given enough importance and are close enough to general human principles.

[Apathy1989]

Allan Schumacher = god

Seriously great posts, thanks!


I can see how the geth genocide was added to make destroy option less appealing, however to me the ending was always to be about destorying the reapers. I don't think the ending needed 3 choices, it needed consequences of previous choices.

Given A,B,C choices feels forced and divorced of reality. I would rather my choices be handled more subtly and resonate throughout the game. Tunchanka and Rannoch were great examples of bioware storytelling that took into account so many variables, I wish the ending was handled similarly.

[hammyhamstersy]

Doesn't this question really comes down to whether you believe everything that the star kid is telling you?  During my playthrough I was at first fully committed to do the synthesis ending just because it seemed like the most hopeful solution for the future.  However, I felt that it was too convenient for this thing to just offer me something to derail me from my original objective of destroying the reapers.  So I ended up with the destroy ending.  And since Shepard lived in my ending I would gather that the star child wasn't telling the complete truth and that some geth should have survived as well. In the end, however,  even if the starkid is telling the truth the destroy ending is the only reasonable ending.  Why?  

Control: What makes Shepard think that he would have any effectiveness at controlling the Reapers?  Commander Shep is really good at what he does but what makes him think that he stands a chance at controlling the Reapers when generation after generations have failed.  

Synthesis: So instead you're going to dictate and decide the fate of the whole universe???  Force everyone to become an organic and machine hybrid?  This to me is even worse than the 'genocide' of the destroy ending.  In addition, look at how machine and organic combos have turned out so far.  Husks and a bunch of abominations.  How could this be a good idea?     

[Allan Schumacher]

T-0pel wrote...

Great response Alan. I am just doing my second playthrough after a month of not being able to replay the single player. And I agree, the best parts of this game are Curing the genophage and quarian/geth peace. It is just handled perfectly from every angle imaginable. It takes desecions from this and previous games to account, it is very emotional, music is beyond perfect (especially Future for the Krogan track, that one is insane) and while there is always a sacrifice, in the end it makes me feel it was worth it.

I looooooooove ME's music.  Maybe I'm just a bit of a nihilist, but I actually found some of the "bad" outcomes of those two scenes possibly even more powerful.  Mordin was in my game, and his scene of sacrificing himself to atone was fantastic.  However, the scene where he refutes Shepard and says "Only saw big picture.  Big picture made up of little pictures!" is as powerful as Legion's "Keelah se'lai."  Then when Shepard shoots him (WHO CAN DO THIS?!) he bravely and valiantly pushes towards the control panel.  I only watched it on YouTube, but I was hoping he would still make it just to spite Shepard.  The same goes for listening to Tali's sobbing as the Quarians were destroyed.  Felt awful just watching it :S

Only thing really great about the ending is music, again...

Soooo much agree.  I actually have a playlist at work that has the two slightly different versions just play on repeat... >.>

[CronoDragoon]

Valo_Soren wrote...

If you can't understand it yourself then any explanation I give you won't work either, you apparently didn't pay attention to the Catalyst at all during the last part of the game.

How does synthesis prevent the future creation of synthetic life?

[CronoDragoon]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

Great response Alan. I am just doing my second playthrough after a month of not being able to replay the single player. And I agree, the best parts of this game are Curing the genophage and quarian/geth peace. It is just handled perfectly from every angle imaginable. It takes desecions from this and previous games to account, it is very emotional, music is beyond perfect (especially Future for the Krogan track, that one is insane) and while there is always a sacrifice, in the end it makes me feel it was worth it.

I looooooooove ME's music.  Maybe I'm just a bit of a nihilist, but I actually found some of the "bad" outcomes of those two scenes possibly even more powerful.  Mordin was in my game, and his scene of sacrificing himself to atone was fantastic.  However, the scene where he refutes Shepard and says "Only saw big picture.  Big picture made up of little pictures!" is as powerful as Legion's "Keelah se'lai."  Then when Shepard shoots him (WHO CAN DO THIS?!) he bravely and valiantly pushes towards the control panel.  I only watched it on YouTube, but I was hoping he would still make it just to spite Shepard.  The same goes for listening to Tali's sobbing as the Quarians were destroyed.  Felt awful just watching it :S

Only thing really great about the ending is music, again...

Soooo much agree.  I actually have a playlist at work that has the two slightly different versions just play on repeat... >.>

Haha, "Leaving Earth" and "An End Once and for All?"

[FFZero]

As the lovable Garrus puts it, the destroy ending all comes down to the ruthless calculus of war. It’s all about the numbers, you sacrifice the Geth and EDI to save the rest of the races in the galaxy. So it all comes down to sacrificing millions of lives to save billions, possibly even trillions of lives. Is this a 'good' ending, no not at all, but this is a war, there really aren’t going to be happy endings where everyone gets out of it alive.

However I’m not entirely convinced the Geth and EDI get killed since the starchild-abomination-thing says all synthetic life forms die. The term ‘synthetic’ in the Mass Effect universe has always been a little vague to me as the definition of something being synthetic is where it is the combination of two or more parts, e.g Shepard and the Reapers, a combination of organic and non-organic parts. The Geth and EDI aren’t actually synthetic, they’re computer programs. Legion said it himself, Geth are software. EDI is no different, and her new body is simply a robotic shell. If anything the destroy ending should technically kill everything except EDI and the Geth, since most of the galactic community have cybernetic implants of some kind but we know that isn't the case since we see various characters with cybernetic implants very much alive, e.g Garrus, Joker etc.

Anyway to me the destroy ending strikes me as the most um...hopeful isn’t really the right word but to me it’s the only ending where the galaxy can rebuild and Shepard's choice won't backfire, badly. The control ending just screams ‘yeah I can’t see how this could possibly go wrong...’ and the synthesis ending really just doesn’t feel right to me. You’re forcing an evolutionary change on the entire galaxy and there is no telling what effect that would have in future, in my mind it can’t be good by any means but that might just be me.

[Fawx9]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Unless shepard already was at odds with the geth, like didn't 100 percent get along with legion, didn't see them as sentient life anyway, as my renegade vanguard who chose genocide because he could care less about the geth, i dont see it being the choice for any paragon shepard.

Then what is a choice for a paragon Shepard? You have blue that makes you the supreme dictator and makes you pray that you can keep your sanity while keeping the reapers under control, or green which does **** all except make flashy explosions and blows up relays.

I mean seriously, green is the most convoluted pile of high fantasy made up poop I have ever heard of. Did no one stop to think that it doesn't actually solve the creator vs creater problem.

Anyone can still make a species that wipes out all life. If a rogue group of scientists called InGen got together and made dinosaurs that could shoot thanix cannons and fly through space, cause they thought they could put them in a park,  then galactic civilization would still fall and synthesis' only boon would have been making people easier to find at night.

You obviously have no real clue as to what you are talking about.

Tell me then, what does synthesis accomplish outside of making us glowing flashlights? Cause last I checked we could still invent stuff, and that stuff could still wipe us out.

If you can't understand it yourself then any explanation I give you won't work either, you apparently didn't pay attention to the Catalyst at all during the last part of the game.

"There is another solution"

"Synthesis"

"Add your energy to the crucibles, everything you are will be absorbed and thensent out"

"The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organcic life in a new framework, a new dna"

"Why not, synthetics are already part of you, can you imagine your life without them"

"The cycle will end synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need each other to make it happen"

So here is what he said about synthesis. That all races will reach their maximum potential in terms of evolution.

There is nothing there that stops this:

"The created will always rebel against their creators"

Again what prevents a group from creating a new species that would turn against them and wipe them out? That is what star kid's argument was about and the third option does nothing with regards to solving it.

Red says: " **** it, we'll deal with it if it comes"

Blue says: "I'll use you(reapers) if I need to"

Green says: "Glow stick paint for everyone!"

[Nightwriter]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As for modifying the choices, I think there are times that it's good that people can't.  I think it would have cheapened Kaiden/Ashley's sacrifice if there was a way to actually save both, and I'm also think that it shouldn't have been possible to get through the Suicide Mission flawlessly.  I think once you can get through things flawlessly, it makes the choice less impactful, in my opinion.

I don't want to get through things flawlessly; that isn't my criticism of Destroy. Making a peace between the geth and the quarians -- that wasn't done flawlessly, remember? Legion had to die. And his sacrifice made the outcome emotional, believable, and meaningful.

Then the destroy ending comes along and poops on that. Destroy is a threat to my "impactful ending," not an aid to it. The ending should compel sacrifice, but not the forfeiture of what I have already sacrificed for, or things like Legion's death become invalidated. And most of all, it should not force me to commit genocide to achieve the only ending where Shepard lives.

[Kahlmulandr]

FFZero wrote...
Anyway to me the destroy ending strikes me as the most um...hopeful isn’t really the right word but to me it’s the only ending where the galaxy can rebuild and Shepard's choice won't backfire, badly. The control ending just screams ‘yeah I can’t see how this could possibly go wrong...’ and the synthesis ending really just doesn’t feel right to me. You’re forcing an evolutionary change on the entire galaxy and there is no telling what effect that would have in future, in my mind it can’t be good by any means but that might just be me.

This is exactly how I feel....

[kleindropper]

Geth? - Just build some new ones. Don't they have their sentience on backup disks somewhere?

[CMD-Shep]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

SNIP!

Soooo much agree.  I actually have a playlist at work that has the two slightly different versions just play on repeat... >.>

Allan, I just want to take the time to thank you for coming here and speaking candidly about your experience/feelings regarding ME3. I find this very refreshing.
Thanks again.

[demersel]

M0keys wrote...

Just wondering how Bioware thinks the player avatar commiting total genocide of an entire race of sentient, friendly beings is supposed to give us, as they said at PAX, satisfaction?

Who do they think their player base is? Genocide isn't cool

Well, you kinda did it to batarians already once.... And that was just to delay the reapers (granted you could have been not a big fan of batarians, but still). 

[DaosX]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

Great response Alan. I am just doing my second playthrough after a month of not being able to replay the single player. And I agree, the best parts of this game are Curing the genophage and quarian/geth peace. It is just handled perfectly from every angle imaginable. It takes desecions from this and previous games to account, it is very emotional, music is beyond perfect (especially Future for the Krogan track, that one is insane) and while there is always a sacrifice, in the end it makes me feel it was worth it.

I looooooooove ME's music.  Maybe I'm just a bit of a nihilist, but I actually found some of the "bad" outcomes of those two scenes possibly even more powerful.  Mordin was in my game, and his scene of sacrificing himself to atone was fantastic.  However, the scene where he refutes Shepard and says "Only saw big picture.  Big picture made up of little pictures!" is as powerful as Legion's "Keelah se'lai."  Then when Shepard shoots him (WHO CAN DO THIS?!) he bravely and valiantly pushes towards the control panel.  I only watched it on YouTube, but I was hoping he would still make it just to spite Shepard.  The same goes for listening to Tali's sobbing as the Quarians were destroyed.  Felt awful just watching it :S

Only thing really great about the ending is music, again...

Soooo much agree.  I actually have a playlist at work that has the two slightly different versions just play on repeat... >.>

Hey Allan, there's this music production company I've been so completely obsessed over recently called Two Steps from Hell. They do similar types of music but mostly for trailers and whatnot. You should seriously check them out if you also like that emotional/instrumental tracks.

This is one example "Heart of Courage". LOVE this song. If you get a chance, you should look up "Protectors of the Earth" as well. There is even one that is tied to an ME3 cutscene with the ships attacking the Reapers as well. The music is incredibly epic.


Also, I just wanted to say thanks as well. You've done more to regain my faith in BW in just a few simple posts than all the PR that was done in the entire month. Kudos man and hope you like the music.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Alan,
Seeing that you work for Bioware, Even though not with the Mass Effect series.
Do you think were actually going to get closure with this new DLC and how long do you the content in it will be.