808 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Beldamon wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...


As for modifying the choices, I think there are times that it's good that people can't.  I think it would have cheapened Kaiden/Ashley's sacrifice if there was a way to actually save both

Hmmm...much like how choosing to save the Rachni Queen or destroy her might have been cheapened if a writer had decided the reapers wold 'magic' the Rachni back into existence even if said player had decided to destroy the queen....

Oh, wait!

HAHA.  I have been meaning to look up how that played out based upon whether or not the Queen was killed.  I was curious how it would play out since I saved the Queen in my playthrough.

[DentedHalo]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Gammazero79 wrote...

So speaking fan to fan were you bothered by the ends at all? I mean honestly how did the rest of the end make sense to you? [not insulting I truly want to know] Joker running away, the scene on the garden planet, the fact that your war assets were little more than a number, the lack of explanation and options, ect..... 

On the whole, I found the ending to be a let down compared to the rest of the game.  I think this is more of a reflection of how highly I thought of the rest of the game than anything else though.  Rannoch and Tuchanka were phenomenol, and the usage of the ME1 theme at those points brings me goosebumps just typing about it now.  So yeah, the ending wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the game.

i identify with most of what you say but this really is the biggest point for me... like you, the geth and krogan story arcs were very emotional for me... the last time i felt anything like that kind of emotion was watching Cloud lower Aries into the water in Final Fantasy VII... the ending was so far detached from the rest of the game that it was quite depressing and, sadly, the emotion that i felt watching the citadel explode eclispses my previous exceptional enjoyment of the game. 

I didnt hate the star child too much, and i actually understood his logic... his logical conclusion was flawed but its the same conclusion drawn in other sci-fi along the same lines... that could all have been accepted if the ending had been fully fleshed out and explained... as things stand its like weve gone from being fully in control of our decsions to curtains a, b and c... im very much in the camp that believes entierly new endings are nessesary at this stage to wipe the memory of these horrible events from my mind but, if the extended cut does what the ME team believes that it will do, i think most people would have accepted that if it was there all along as opposed to an add-on after the fact...

On a side note, ive been reading these forums for weeks now and, whilst i cannot claim to have read everything, you are the first Bioware member of staff who I have read actually giving an honest view of the ending, one that ties in with the majority opinion here on BSN... on a personal level i greatly appreciate that and cant help but feel that the levels of discontent that have been displayed so far could have been avoided if Casey Hudson or other members of the team had come out and said something similar rather than directing us to the perfect review scores... sincerely, thank you.

[Estelindis]

I just want to say a huge thanks to Allan for all his posts. They have been really interesting reading and it's great to get a reply from a Bioware person that's approaching ME3 as a fan and discussing it with other fans in this way, while also having the perspective of a developer. Major kudos and feelings of fuzzy happiness!  

Modifié par Estelindis, 08 avril 2012 - 01:09 .

[ZeBlob987]

Estelindis wrote...

I just want to say a huge thanks to Allan for all his posts. They have been really interesting reading and it's great to get a reply from a Bioware person that's approaching ME3 as a fan and discussing it with other fans in this way, while also having the perspective of a developer. Major kudos and feelings of fuzzy happiness!  

QFT. It's nice to see somebody who's in the video game business but who's playing this game as we are, a player. Happening to work for BioWare is just bonus points to me.

[MustacheManatee]

DentedHalo wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Gammazero79 wrote...

So speaking fan to fan were you bothered by the ends at all? I mean honestly how did the rest of the end make sense to you? [not insulting I truly want to know] Joker running away, the scene on the garden planet, the fact that your war assets were little more than a number, the lack of explanation and options, ect..... 

On the whole, I found the ending to be a let down compared to the rest of the game.  I think this is more of a reflection of how highly I thought of the rest of the game than anything else though.  Rannoch and Tuchanka were phenomenol, and the usage of the ME1 theme at those points brings me goosebumps just typing about it now.  So yeah, the ending wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the game.

i identify with most of what you say but this really is the biggest point for me... like you, the geth and krogan story arcs were very emotional for me... the last time i felt anything like that kind of emotion was watching Cloud lower Aries into the water in Final Fantasy VII... the ending was so far detached from the rest of the game that it was quite depressing and, sadly, the emotion that i felt watching the citadel explode eclispses my previous exceptional enjoyment of the game. 

I didnt hate the star child too much, and i actually understood his logic... his logical conclusion was flawed but its the same conclusion drawn in other sci-fi along the same lines... that could all have been accepted if the ending had been fully fleshed out and explained... as things stand its like weve gone from being fully in control of our decsions to curtains a, b and c... im very much in the camp that believes entierly new endings are nessesary at this stage to wipe the memory of these horrible events from my mind but, if the extended cut does what the ME team believes that it will do, i think most people would have accepted that if it was there all along as opposed to an add-on after the fact...

On a side note, ive been reading these forums for weeks now and, whilst i cannot claim to have read everything, you are the first Bioware member of staff who I have read actually giving an honest view of the ending, one that ties in with the majority opinion here on BSN... on a personal level i greatly appreciate that and cant help but feel that the levels of discontent that have been displayed so far could have been avoided if Casey Hudson or other members of the team had come out and said something similar rather than directing us to the perfect review scores... sincerely, thank you.

Could not have said it better myself DentedHalo.

Thank you Allan. VERY much appreciated. As a fan, all I ever really needed was some honest dialouge about it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Alan,
Seeing that you work for Bioware, Even though not with the Mass Effect series.
Do you think were actually going to get closure with this new DLC and how long do you the content in it will be.

Just to make things clear, this is something I am so far removed from that I have literally no idea what the ME team is planning for this.

[MustacheManatee]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Alan,
Seeing that you work for Bioware, Even though not with the Mass Effect series.
Do you think were actually going to get closure with this new DLC and how long do you the content in it will be.

Just to make things clear, this is something I am so far removed from that I have literally no idea what the ME team is planning for this.

And thats exactly why I care about your opinion.

[ThePasserby]

Maybe it's just me, but I refuse to waste energy weighing the three options that come out of poorly-written, un-peer-reviewed pretentious tripe.

Modifié par ThePasserby, 08 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[Allan Schumacher]

M0keys wrote...

Actually, the destroy endings annihilates Earth in one of the outcomes.

Sorry that's what I was trying to say.  With low EMS score the ending is certainly OMGBBQ bleak.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 08 avril 2012 - 01:23 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Bathaius wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
 For me, and this really goes for any plot point I guess, if I had to break it down it'd probably be "one that illicits an emotional response."  The response has to be within the game, of course.  If I'm going "I'm so mad because the ending had a giant bug in it!!! " that's not a good thing.

That was kind of how I felt when the ending of the Mass Effect game finally happened.  I've never complained about an ending to a video game before (or about anything, for that matter), but I was so befuddled by this seeming inconsistent plot device that made no sense in the actual story that I had to go onto the forums and find out what it was all about.

That's fair, and it's why I made sure to explicitly state it.  Simply having an emotional reaction isn't good if it's not for appropriate reasons, and many have made it clear that they are upset for reasons beyond simply what the story/game provided.

[alec1898]

The Angry One wrote...
Tell me something. If a gunman holds an innocent person hostage, do you consider it acceptable to shoot the hostage to kill the gunman?

I think it's more along the line of:

If a gunman is holding 10 innocent people hostage, is it acceptable to shoot one so that the gunman gets distracted and stunned long enough for the others to escape, and for you to kill the gunman?

And yes, it's acceptable losses.

"Hard Calculus" as Garrus called it.

[phat0817]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
 For me, and this really goes for any plot point I guess, if I had to break it down it'd probably be "one that illicits an emotional response."  The response has to be within the game, of course.  If I'm going "I'm so mad because the ending had a giant bug in it!!! " that's not a good thing.

That was kind of how I felt when the ending of the Mass Effect game finally happened.  I've never complained about an ending to a video game before (or about anything, for that matter), but I was so befuddled by this seeming inconsistent plot device that made no sense in the actual story that I had to go onto the forums and find out what it was all about.

That's fair, and it's why I made sure to explicitly state it.  Simply having an emotional reaction isn't good if it's not for appropriate reasons, and many have made it clear that they are upset for reasons beyond simply what the story/game provided.

99% of that game was great it was just that end that killed it =(

[Allan Schumacher]

Well I seem to have "caught up" to the end of the thread (interviews with Patrick appear to trump me... LOL).  Thanks for the conversation everyone.  Apparently our board moves quite quickly, but I'll stop by and maybe chime in if I have any thoughts in other threads.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Allan

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 08 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[Combine911]

bump

[phat0817]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Well I seem to have "caught up" to the end of the thread (interviews with Patrick appear to trump me... LOL).  Thanks for the conversation everyone.  Apparently our board moves quite quickly, but I'll stop by and maybe chime in if I have any thoughts in other threads.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Allan

Thanks you to

[M0keys]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Well I seem to have "caught up" to the end of the thread (interviews with Patrick appear to trump me... LOL).  Thanks for the conversation everyone.  Apparently our board moves quite quickly, but I'll stop by and maybe chime in if I have any thoughts in other threads.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Allan

Thank you, Allan! Cheers!

[xenu101]

"Why is it OK for Shepard to live in extended cut Red ending if he still commits genocide?"

Because you never see any of the results of your epic A, B, C, choices. For A: the reapers fall over and die; for B and C: the reapers just wave goodbye to everyone and fly away...

There really isn't a whole lot more you can infer from those two cutscenes without using your imagination, which is stupid for a video game released in 2012.

So I chose RED and killed all synthetic life... or did I??? Who knows?!? Why did Joker fly to Endor with EDI for a romantic vacation? No one knows.

Hell, how did the reapers take over the Citadel, fly it to Earth, build a teleporter thingy in London, and then why didn't they turn off the Mass Relays like they planned to do in ME1? No clue.

Why is there a holographic/ghost child that looks like the dead kid from your dreams? *Catalyst AI shrugs*

None of it makes any sense. It all needs to go. The whole ending. Just chop it right off the end and replace it with something better.

Modifié par xenu101, 08 avril 2012 - 01:45 .

[kimuji]

Allan, I have a question, the crucible is able to merge all synthetics and organics all over the galaxy (even plants!), which is quite a feat given the complexity of that kind of process. I don't see any rational explanation for this, but as you said we don't know how the crucible work so let's assume that's possible. How something more simple like killing the Reapers alone, who are different from the Geth and standard AIs, would be impossible for a device capable of much more impressive feats? The only explanation that comes to my mind is that the writers thought it would make the ending more dramatic, well I can understand that but you can't just use artifical tricks like this just in order to make things more dramatic, it has to make sense and be properly justified.

-------

And in fact I have another question ^^ What do you think of these two ideas in order to "fix" the ending, these are suggestions for the upcoming free DLC:

- An additionnal choice allowing the player to point out the flaws of the Starchild's logic, unlocking a more ethical and logical solution. And there is lot of room for negociation, remember we can choose to destroy the Reapers by shooting on the "things" at the end of the path on the right. That should make them think twice before rejecting any possible negociated solution.

 - Change the red ending (the better red one with a high EMS)  in a way that we can suspect that the Starchild was lying and presenting false motives in order to fool Shepard and dissade him from destroying the Reapers. And to do that you just need to keep the Geths alive, because if the Geths are not affected by the red beam then 1/ that will be the evidence we need to suspect the Starchild to be lying. 2/ we'll have the ethical end choice the game is still lacking.

And the last good news with these solutions is that they won't need that much work from the ME3 developpement team to be implemented in the DLC. They don't even have to modify what the Starchild said. In my opinion either of these fixes could work and provide a good compromise.

Edit: Damn I've been too late 

Modifié par kimuji, 08 avril 2012 - 02:04 .

[Agent_Dark_]

alec1898 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Tell me something. If a gunman holds an innocent person hostage, do you consider it acceptable to shoot the hostage to kill the gunman?

I think it's more along the line of:

If a gunman is holding 10 innocent people hostage, is it acceptable to shoot one so that the gunman gets distracted and stunned long enough for the others to escape, and for you to kill the gunman?

Not if you're Batman.

[chevyguy87]

A line from the game that I think sums up this topic

Tarquin Victus - "Victory at any cost".

Several instances in history follow that quote. I relate the Mass Relay explosions to that of the Atomic bombs dropped over Japan to end World War Two. At the time both instances seemed necessary to end the conflict. But that is just my opinion and I digress.

Modifié par chevyguy87, 08 avril 2012 - 01:54 .

[Allan Schumacher]

kimuji wrote...

Allan, I have a question, the crucible is able to merge all synthetics and organics all over the galaxy (even plants!), which is quite a feat given the complexity of that kind of process. I don't see any rational explanation for this, but as you said we don't know how the crucible work so let's assume that's possible. How something more simple like killing the Reapers alone, who are different from the Geth and standard AIs, would be impossible for a device capable of much more impressive feats? The only explanation that comes to my mind is that the writers thought it would make the ending more dramatic, well I can understand that but you can't just use artifical tricks like this just in order to make things more dramatic, it has to make sense and be properly justified.

I have nooooooooooooooo idea what the synthesis process actually is hahaha.  The same way I don't really have any idea what it means for JC to merge with Helios at the end of Deus Ex.  It's has a fantastic element that makes it hard to really understand since it's something we've never really done.  This goes for any sort of transcendence in any game at all actually IMO.

And in fact I have another question ^^ What do you think of thes two ideas in order to "fix" the ending, these are suggestions for the upcoming free DLC:

Don't take this the wrong way but I am a bit hesitant to make commentary about ideas for how things should be changed or elaborated upon in the upcoming DLC, mostly because I have no idea what the team is planning, and while I think it's great that people are hopeful that the new DLC, I'm not really qualified to make a lot of comments and don't want to make anyone feel yay or nay because I wouldn't champion my writing abilities haha.  Especially since on the whole, I'm probably less upset about the ending than a lot of other people.

Sorry

Edit: Damn I've been too late 

Never too late!  Haha.

[AxisEvolve]

Mandalore313 wrote...

It's not genocide because they're robots.


/hides

If you think this then you overlooked the entire message of Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3. Sorry. 

[Atmospeer]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

When dealing with a timeline that might as well be eternity, any event with a non-zero chance of occurring will eventually occur, so in that sense I don't really find it a contradiction.  All that the Geth-Quarian peace and EDI do is serve as examples that "it's not happening right now."

At this point, even if we think it's an evitability (assuming the Catalyst is infalliable), there's really no timeline on when such an event may occur.  If it takes 47 billion years for an organic to finally create a synthetic that destroys all organic life, then the Catalyst's statement is still correct(...)

I'd just like to thank you for this post, clarifying that the catalyst is not completely nonsensical like I'd been saying all along; as opposed to all those people who have seen the meme and suddenly "herp derp makes no sense".

[kimuji]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

kimuji wrote...

Allan, I have a question, the crucible is able to merge all synthetics and organics all over the galaxy (even plants!), which is quite a feat given the complexity of that kind of process. I don't see any rational explanation for this, but as you said we don't know how the crucible work so let's assume that's possible. How something more simple like killing the Reapers alone, who are different from the Geth and standard AIs, would be impossible for a device capable of much more impressive feats? The only explanation that comes to my mind is that the writers thought it would make the ending more dramatic, well I can understand that but you can't just use artifical tricks like this just in order to make things more dramatic, it has to make sense and be properly justified.

I have nooooooooooooooo idea what the synthesis process actually is hahaha.  The same way I don't really have any idea what it means for JC to merge with Helios at the end of Deus Ex.  It's has a fantastic element that makes it hard to really understand since it's something we've never really done.  This goes for any sort of transcendence in any game at all actually IMO.

And in fact I have another question ^^ What do you think of thes two ideas in order to "fix" the ending, these are suggestions for the upcoming free DLC:

Don't take this the wrong way but I am a bit hesitant to make commentary about ideas for how things should be changed or elaborated upon in the upcoming DLC, mostly because I have no idea what the team is planning, and while I think it's great that people are hopeful that the new DLC, I'm not really qualified to make a lot of comments and don't want to make anyone feel yay or nay because I wouldn't champion my writing abilities haha.  Especially since on the whole, I'm probably less upset about the ending than a lot of other people.

Sorry

Edit: Damn I've been too late 

Never too late!  Haha.

Awesome! Thanks for your reply! 

I understand you can't say anything about my suggestions, I just had to ask. 

Regarding DX ending that's a bit different and easier to "explain", JC is already full of nanites and "cyberstuff" (he  even has some knind of equivalent of a wifi modem in his head, maybe he already has an USB port ^^) so you can imagine that you just have enhance some of his existing hardawe to allow Helios using him as a vessel and merge counciousness with him. Plus he merges with Helios and they become one unique entity, the ME3 green ending is different, people don't merge with anyone else, organics become part synthetic and vice versa. In fact the geen ending isn't really merging it just an attempt to eliminate differences between organics and synthetics, which is quite disturbing because it means differences are an issue that needs to be solved if you want to avoid war and genocides. We're walking on a pretty shady path... But that wouldn't be a problem if there were at least one ethical choice available. We have the Renegade endings, we just need at least a Paragon one (and if that ending allows Shepard to question the Starchild's logic, that's even better ^^).

[SilentK]

M0keys wrote...

Just wondering how Bioware thinks the player avatar commiting total genocide of an entire race of sentient, friendly beings is supposed to give us, as they said at PAX, satisfaction?

Who do they think their player base is? Genocide isn't cool

Hmm... there are though choices to be made. And if it bothers you too much, how come you can still play after ME2 has been out for such a long time. You could destroy Malons data at that point. Doesn't that slowly kill the krogans?

I don't think that there should be a forced death for Shepard because of the destroy ending. What if your Shepard does not see the geth as buddies, have one FemShep who never activated Legion. She has never seen their side of the story. She will also not do the quest where you see the beginning of the Geth and Quarians or Rannoch because there is too little time, she has to save admiral Korris. For her destroy makes sense because she sees them as threats. Also have another FemShep who really trusts Legion and will most likely go for synthesis.

This is where roleplaying comes in, how does you Shepard feel about the geth, and how difficult much will he/she sacrifice for ridding the galaxy of the reapers. You don't like that choice, so don't take it. I like to be able to experiment with my Shepards.