- No shouting and no insults. This includes excessive badmouthing, vulgar speech, hate speech, and the like, it will not be tolerated and such will be reported. We will keep this a lively debate of the topic, not a hormonal ranting of your personal issues
- Stay relevant to the topic at hand
- Do not steer this thread into something it's not (ex. debate on why Retake or Bioware are better, or polls being biased, unless polls were used in regards to the topic at hand)
- To clarify the thread: this is a topic on the foreshadowing of the Mass Effect 3 endings, not an argument on why the endings were good or bad, HOWEVER, I will give leniency to those who can control themselves to dicuss their views of the endings, but no personal attacks only discussion
- And I will try to answer and reply back to as much people as possible, so do not take silence on my part as a sign of agreement or disagreement
The mission Citadel: Signal Tracking has you track down illegally funneled fundings from a Quasar machine. The tracking leads you to an AI who is trying to use the funneled money to buy a ship to reach the Geth. However, when you find it it has a safety device, which activates when it has a 100% assurance that it will be found, it explains to Shepard, if you choose to ask why you can't settle this peacefully, that it understands that organic life must always enslave or destroy synthetic life, but that it won't die alone.
In the end you either shoot at the junction or disarm it.
The destroy and control options were clearly stated in this mission, and then so in the ME3 ending. Though the Delivery of the endiing was subpar in my opinion because the choices you make in ME2 and 3 contradict this.
Case in point the Geth themselves. After Legion's death (if you followed paragon) the Geth has achived full, lack of a better term, "humanity."
And you made peace between the Geth and Quarians. So the logic that Organics are doomed to their Synthetics is null and void.
But what do you think? Do you believe that the ME3 endings were foreshadowed by this, or was the dark energy ending foreshadowed more, but BioWare just completely retracted that all together to make such an open ended ending to milk out the series? I for one, like the direction of the endings, but completely disagree with Casey Hudson and BioWare with how they ended it (otherwise the delivery of the endings) because of the massive plot holes and contradictions. Also I wouldn't have minded seeing my Female Shepard have babies with Liara...
Update: Great post! Some have argued that the Signal Tracker wasn't enough to explain a foreshadow of the endings but here are some other ones a poster put while I was gone.
ChildOfEden wrote...
Guys I'm off at a break, my, ahem, boyfriend is back from the hospital and before he goes I need a good ravaging. When I get back I'm updating my OP, and I will answer and reply to the wonderful input everyone is putting up.
Eden, while you enjoy the..."ahem-ing"... I shall help with some of this. Sorry if I repeat stuff I already posted before; I'm just doing a memory dump here, more or less.
ME1:
-Casino AI, which you already explained. But I would add here that it is also trying a sort of synthesis--it is trying to be like organics in the sense that it wants mobility, it wants free will, and it wants a community, as seen by it trying to join the geth by uploading itself into a spaceship and flying to Geth space.
-Heretic geth as AI in conflict with organics
-Rogue Luna VI: before she was EDI, she killed an entire base full of people, so you have to destroy it.
The last thing the rogue VI says as you turn it off is "help", which you find out later is EDI's "birth", so to speak. Miranda tells you in ME2 that the Luna base was experimenting on controlling AI. This mission has themes of both destroy and control.
-Sovereign as an example of destroying AI.
-Saren as an example of bad synthesis.
ME2:
-Shepard's rebirth with synthetic parts as an example of good synthesis.
-Overlord as an example of bad synthesis, controlling AI, and how AI can be dangerous enough to destroy everything.
-Joker could be seen as synthesis as well, since we find out he gets upgrades that help his Vrolik's.
-Controling vs. destroying Legion i.e. do you keep him and tell him to follow your every order, or do you sell him to Cerberus? Or you could say selling him to Cerberus is an example of control as well.
-Controling vs. destroying heretic geth
-Legion vs. Tali after their respective loyalty missions
-EDI vs. Shepard (if you choose to make Shepard distrustful and combative towards EDI).
-Collector base at the end being a control vs. destroy option
ME3:
-Quarians vs. Geth...the whole Rannoch arc, really.
-EDI trying to become more organic in her thought patterns as a sort of synthesis
-Legion sacrificing himself to give the geth individuality, i.e. to become more like organics, as synthesis
-The geth uploading themselves onto quarian suits as good synthesis.
-Salarian "transhumans" as synthesis.
-Garrus's "ruthless calculus of war" as a hint for the destroy ending.
-Chakwas and Adams conversation in the mess area about whether AI is true life or merely a tool.
-TIM's blathering about how he wants to control the reapers.
Things scattered throughout all 3 games the suggest synthesis:
-biotic implants
-haptic technology implants (to use with holographic UI)
-omnitools
-quarians suits
Thank you fle6isnow. Very good list. As for my ravaging, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
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Update on Foreshadowing Reasoning:
As I view it the above makes points on quantitative reasoning, I will now include qualitative reasoning:
- The Mass Relays: (I don't endorse them being destroyed, quite the opposite really but I see why they did it) the Mass Relays were devices of implementation for a cycle to follow a path created by the Reapers, or is it the Catalyst?.... Organics using them acknowledged using technology with the purpose of following a path to their "salvation/doom/whatever." Having them destroyed marked a beginning for which Organics or Sythethics (depending on your actions of destroy or control, or synthesis) to make their own path. Proof of foreshadowing: Legion and the Geth's overall goal of creating a dyson sphere, or something.
- To explain the Destroy and Control endings: (I hated everyway it was delivered, I am a sucker for happy endings but I digress, my real problem is lack of "closure") The foreshadowing was much more prolific and, umm I don't want to say vocalized.... let's say.... it was very much aesthicasized in Mass Effect 2. Case point: the decision to either keep (symbolizing a need or want of dominace, in TIM's case it was control and domination over other races) or explode the collector base (obviously enough symbolizing the destroy option in ME3) this ties with the evidence of foreshadowing in ME1
- Saren and Sythesis: Saren on his organic fusion with reaper tech, "the strength of both the weaknesses of neither." This is a case of when the or a centralized theme is personalized to the very fabric by a character and Saren was that character, he symbolized and became the theme of synthesis.
- But Saren wasn't the only one: Commander Shepard him or herself also, however indirectly and unknowingly became a walking centralized theme in ME2 when he or she died and was brought back to health through implants and the works. Another case of synthesis being very much foreshadowed in a major way.
Modifié par ChildOfEden, 11 avril 2012 - 07:01 .
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