284 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

He shouldn't be surprised that his behavior backfires. If Mr Pachter mistreats the game industry long enough then sooner or later his customers will have enough of it. Calling his customers whiners will be in their memory for a long time. Good show.

[TomY90]

its not just ME fans are that anti EA right now I was on the sims 3 forums earlier and they are even more angry than we are hear at times considering they had a month long boycott of the game.

From what I saw there reasons are this
Bringing out expensive expansion packs (each one the same price as the actual game itself pretty much)
the use of sims store (get more money out of you)
adding social features to the game (nobody wanted a Facebook on sims)
broken games (constant problems on latest expansion packs)
not paying attention to the fans (sounds very familiar to bioware social)

its a longer list thats for sure and I agree with them on all of this sims 3 has had no love put into the creation of the game for years and has just become a money cow (i.e. milking the franchise for every penny its got)

[Jackal7713]

Valo_Soren wrote...

I don't see why you don't agree with this, he described all you whiners perfectly and is one hundred percent correct in everything he says. -shrug-

So you call people whiners and think you grew a pair. Good for you.

Modifié par Jackal7713, 07 avril 2012 - 11:07 .

[Maugrim]

I've never seen Pachter referred to as anything other than a joke and a hack even by the very people who will now triumph his BS statistics. Nice to know that some things never change.

[RADIUMEYEZ]

RevenantWolf wrote...

http://www.forbes.co...ending-whiners/


What else is new...

He looks like an old constipated bastard I refuse to take him serious on anything he has no knowledge about.

[The Smitchens]

Acidrain92 wrote...

Pachter doesnt agree with you "Pfft who is this guy and why should I care?"

Pachter agrees with you "yeah see? Patcher knows what he is talking about."

****ing gamers. I miss the days of oregon trail when we were satisfied with getting dysentery.

No kidding.  The gaming industry has become incredibly aggressive if not for the fanbase alone.  Anyone that wants to work in the industry needs some of the toughest skin around just because of how abbrasive gamers can be.  There is something that BioWare and EA most definitely have on their side considering some of the things people have said here.

Hell earlier in this thread someone commented Pachter should consider committing suicide.  Who just says that?  Really.  Even if things like that are just intended as a joke there are lines of tact to be drawn.  People really should lighten up, take a step back, and objectively consider that just maybe they aren't doing anything to alter these kinds of perceptions.

[legion999]

The Smitchens wrote...

legion999 wrote...

"I can’t think of anything that EA does that is bad enough to warrant this distinction.  They sell entertainment products that are better than the average, at competitive prices.”

Is it just me or does this look like EA's paying him to say this?

And after reading the rest of the article it becomes apparent he is yet another person who has no clue.

Is it really that hard to believe that just maybe someone authentically thinks that EA isn't as bad as a lot of people say?  We're a widely varied race with different opinions.  People disagree.  It happens.  Who cares?

The Angry One wrote...

Do some people seriously think ME3 is the only reason EA was voted the worst company in America?

I don't see how any video game company ever could qualify for that title.  They make video games.  Period.  It's not like they had a giant oil leak that flooded into the gulf of Mexico for three months while no one did a single thing about it.

Read your reply to my comment then read your reply to The Angry One's comment.

Anyway it is possible (probable infact) it's just his wording makes me suspicious.

[Mcfly616]

Dandynermite wrote...

BDelacroix wrote...

Who is Michael Pachter and why should I care?

This.

Exactly lol....

[Manton-X2]

Justin2k wrote...

Umm.. how is it made up?  Its pretty explained.

But ok, lets say retake has 60,000 members.  Mass Effect 3 sold 2.8 million copies.
Lets say for every 1000 fan in retake, theres 10,000 non vocal fans that agree with them.
thats 600,000.  Mass Effect 3 sold 2.8 million copies.

The simple fact is, Retake is certainly a minority. 
And the people that agree with Retake do not even make up half of ME3's sales.

You are obviously really really upset at this fact, because all i see is negativity, anger and sadness from you in every post, but unfortunately this is just the truth of the matter.  The majority of the fans, whether they liked it, loved it, hated it, do not care enough to say/do anything about it and will not be adversely affected from buying the next bioware title.

Where are people getting these sales figures?  Last sales figures I have seen show them at about 2.1million games sold worldwide (and don't forget, a little over 1,000,000 were sold before the ending debacle even surfaced) and in the last sales figures, even with the reduced prices all over they sold ~165,000 in the last week with reported numbers.  I know they've shipped about 2.8-3million, but that's not what was sold.  

Retake may have ~60,000 members but there are a whole lot of us who are for changing the ending who are not in Retake (myself included).    In fact, I wonder how many people who hate the ending are even on BSN or know what Retake is.  Further, I wonder how many of the 2.1million have actually finished the game (biggest beef with Chobot is she's defending an ending without having finished the game herself). 

Either way .. I think it's safe to say that we're probably talking more than 600,000 people who hate the ending and want it changed in someway.  Studies show only 4-8% (depending on which study you subscribe to) of people will openly voice their displeasure in public.  By those numbers, you are talking anywhere from 750,000-1.5million people ticked off at the ending enough to want it changed without going beyond Retake numbers.  Add in the rest and you go even higher.   Add in people who hate the ending, but don't care enough to cause a stink and the numbers go even higher.  

I think you're not talking anywhere near a minority hating the ending .... what you may be talking about is a minority of people who hate the ending so much that they refuse to let it go and will keep hammering BioWare to change it over the long haul.  You want a true minority, take a look at the number of people who "absolutely love" the ME3 ending and wouldn't change a thing.  

MX2

[cotheer]

“As far as I can tell, it was a vocal minority of several thousand, but given that the game shipped 3.5 million units and likely sold through 2.8 million, I can’t believe that the backlash comprised more than 10 percent of consumers, and think it’s more likely closer to 1 percent,” said Pachter. “That incident was a great example of what a whiny group gamers are in general; while I respect their rights to express their dissatisfaction, the FTC complaint was over the top, and it is what got all of the media attention.”

Analyst my ass.

[Nyila]

Valo_Soren wrote...

I don't see why you don't agree with this, he described all you whiners perfectly and is one hundred percent correct in everything he says. -shrug-

Are you a gamer? (If not, what the hell are you doing here?) If yes, then he insulted you too.

“That incident was a great example of what a whiny group gamers are in general."

[pikey1969]

I can't help but be amused at people trying to sell off their incredibly rudimentary attempt at simulating 'statistics' and 'market studies' as if it amounts to anything, regardless of which side of the argument they're fighting for.

Irrelevant too. Story/Campaign fan discussion forum is hardly the place for people to play 'let's pretend to be marketing/pr executive!'

Also Michael Pachter has always been a 50/50 guy. He makes a lot of grandiose and 'expert' sounding statements about the state of the industry, most of which are really generalized 'duh' predictions. Sometimes he gets it right, sometimes he doesn't, cause most of the crap he spews are common sense or 'out-there' bull**** ideas mostly formed so he sounds like he has a unique perspective or 'insightful' on the every other occasion he gets it 'right'.

Just about anyone out there with a marketing/business degree that has even a modicum of an idea of how the gaming industry works could fill in his shoes and look just as much like an ass that 'kinda' knows what he's babbling about. He gets the attention he does for the same reason 'HuskyStarcraft' gets attention/respect of being an 'expert' in their respective fields. They've been around and kinda did it first before anyone caught on.

As soon as more qualified people start jumping into the 'analysis' aspects of the media for both the business/creative realms of the industry, he'll be old news that no one gives a **** about.

Modifié par pikey1969, 07 avril 2012 - 11:11 .

[jcmuki]

makenzieshepard wrote...

I've never seen Pachter referred to as anything other than a joke and a hack even by the very people who will now triumph his BS statistics. Nice to know that some things never change.

the sun will rise tommorrow and Pachter will still be a idiot, hack, and a joke

or as Oraka says I may be drunk, krogan, but you're ugly. And tomorrow I'll be sober

Modifié par jcmuki, 07 avril 2012 - 11:11 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Reverse Centaur wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

I don't see why you don't agree with this, he described all you whiners perfectly and is one hundred percent correct in everything he says. -shrug-

It's good to know there others out there who get it.

Aw, cute.

[Sal86]

Justin2k wrote...

Sal86 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Not really.  The custom loss is far less than I think a lot of you think it is.

Retake has about 60,000 members right?  The going stat for vocal complainers is 10% of the non vocal ones.  So you would make that 600,000 non vocal people upset.  So 660,000.  Right there we do not have even a quarter of 2.8 million.

You then decide on a number that is satisfied by DLC or awaiting to see.  One in 6 perhaps?  So we are left with 550,000 upset people.  Now of that, only one in five is actually going to never buy another bioware product again.

Roughly we are left with 110,000 customers lost.  From 2.8 million.

Being a majority on the forums may seem like a side is winning, but in reality, it never was.

So you respond to my note that he's making up statistics by making up statistics.
Alright.

Umm.. how is it made up?  Its pretty explained.

But ok, lets say retake has 60,000 members.  Mass Effect 3 sold 2.8 million copies.
Lets say for every 1000 fan in retake, theres 10,000 non vocal fans that agree with them.
thats 600,000.  Mass Effect 3 sold 2.8 million copies.

The simple fact is, Retake is certainly a minority. 
And the people that agree with Retake do not even make up half of ME3's sales.

You are obviously really really upset at this fact, because all i see is negativity, anger and sadness from you in every post, but unfortunately this is just the truth of the matter.  The majority of the fans, whether they liked it, loved it, hated it, do not care enough to say/do anything about it and will not be adversely affected from buying the next bioware title.

I think you are missing the point being made about made up statistics. Numbers that follow 'let's say' are classified as made up in my book. It could be more, it could be less but unless you have a reason for those numbers you don't know any better than the rest of us.

It's ten percent.  As a general rule the people that complain about a product are ten percent of the amount of people unhappy with that product.

Even if we were to raise that number substantially, you'd need at least 20% of regular joes to agree with Retake before even hitting half of ME3's sales.

Therefore it is pretty safe to assume that the people who are negatively affected are the minority.  Although without knowing the unknowable (amount of people who haven't posted an opinion who are unhappy) you can never provide definete proof.  Just an estimate.  10% is the safe number for that estimate, used by companies all the time.

Alright, perfectly willing to accept that I don't know anything about what percentage companies use. Minority/majority is not an argument I'm making. We both agree that it's an estimate, which is the point. In any case, my main gripe is that the 1% number is demonstrably inaccurate.

[pikey1969]

Opsrbest wrote...

Narayan23 wrote...

he's hilarious he doesn't want people to strive for better games because it would cost to much and everyone should settle for mediocrity. That's what's wrong with american business in general.
When you look at german car manufacturers they don't settle for mediocrity and they make insane profits their american counterparts are lucky to make a buck these days.

Hes not wrong in that assertion. We already see and know as gamers that there is an increase in budget cost for any project the longer the game takes to make, the higher the cost.. So you can't really say that there isn't an impact by game companies having to ensure that there produts appease 100% of the people 100% of the time.

sad truth.

[Solmanian]

Qutayba wrote...

Why does he think it's a bad thing to take longer between episodes? I think THAT is the source of the problem right there. Are development studios going to strive for quality, or mass produced crap?

I think you're missing the point he was making. developers need to thread the line balancing between perfection/profit. If a game takes 6 years to complete instead of 2 years, it cost three times as much to produce it. And the amount of time wasted on repeatadly updating it to work with the new technical standards that grow exponantialy. In this period of time, PC hardware goes thorugfh complete overhaul every two years, thats why most companies use the two years deadline. If you have a 6 years deadline, you'll have to redo the entire game atleast three times. I mean, can you think of a game that comes out with an engine from 2006?
Look at starcraft 2, it was a good game yes, but if you saw blizzard developer videos at blizzcons, you saw that at least 80% of that decade long production was wasted on updating it. If you want an example of it going bad, look at duke nukem, another game a decade in development, did it make him a better game or worse? most players voted worse, especialy because it was such a long time in the making, and I can't even count went out of business during the development... There's an endless list of games that died because the developers wasted too long on their development, until it brought the company down.

Are you willing to pay triple digits for video games? because thats the only way 7-10 years development would be profitable. And when they'll release their 150-200$ master piece, most people will either pirate it or simply buy a game for their iphone for a fraction of the price...

[The Smitchens]

legion999 wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

legion999 wrote...

"I can’t think of anything that EA does that is bad enough to warrant this distinction.  They sell entertainment products that are better than the average, at competitive prices.”

Is it just me or does this look like EA's paying him to say this?

And after reading the rest of the article it becomes apparent he is yet another person who has no clue.

Is it really that hard to believe that just maybe someone authentically thinks that EA isn't as bad as a lot of people say?  We're a widely varied race with different opinions.  People disagree.  It happens.  Who cares?

The Angry One wrote...

Do some people seriously think ME3 is the only reason EA was voted the worst company in America?

I don't see how any video game company ever could qualify for that title.  They make video games.  Period.  It's not like they had a giant oil leak that flooded into the gulf of Mexico for three months while no one did a single thing about it.

Read your reply to my comment then read your reply to The Angry One's comment.

Anyway it is possible (probable infact) it's just his wording makes me suspicious.

Did I contradict myself?  I don't think I did, but if I did could you point it out?  Perhaps I could word it better.  Not sure what I'm looking for.

Anyway, as far as the wording goes, you're reading excerpts of text.  It's easy to misinterpret things that way, but Pachter's been pretty blunt about things like this before.  Often what it comes down to is a different sense of prioritization.  We're talking about a lawyer in his 50s here.  He's old enough to be the father of 99% of the retakers here.  There's a different perspective that comes from that.

[FS3D]

Sticks and stones. When he has found something that was significant to his gameplaying experience that is not as advertised and feels strongly about it, then he can complain. Until then, there's no point in caring what he has to say.

[kheldorin]

Manton-X2 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Umm.. how is it made up?  Its pretty explained.

But ok, lets say retake has 60,000 members.  Mass Effect 3 sold 2.8 million copies.
Lets say for every 1000 fan in retake, theres 10,000 non vocal fans that agree with them.
thats 600,000.  Mass Effect 3 sold 2.8 million copies.

The simple fact is, Retake is certainly a minority. 
And the people that agree with Retake do not even make up half of ME3's sales.

You are obviously really really upset at this fact, because all i see is negativity, anger and sadness from you in every post, but unfortunately this is just the truth of the matter.  The majority of the fans, whether they liked it, loved it, hated it, do not care enough to say/do anything about it and will not be adversely affected from buying the next bioware title.

Where are people getting these sales figures?  Last sales figures I have seen show them at about 2.1million games sold worldwide (and don't forget, a little over 1,000,000 were sold before the ending debacle even surfaced) and in the last sales figures, even with the reduced prices all over they sold ~165,000 in the last week with reported numbers.  I know they've shipped about 2.8-3million, but that's not what was sold.  

Retake may have ~60,000 members but there are a whole lot of us who are for changing the ending who are not in Retake (myself included).    In fact, I wonder how many people who hate the ending are even on BSN or know what Retake is.  Further, I wonder how many of the 2.1million have actually finished the game (biggest beef with Chobot is she's defending an ending without having finished the game herself). 

Either way .. I think it's safe to say that we're probably talking more than 600,000 people who hate the ending and want it changed in someway.  Studies show only 4-8% (depending on which study you subscribe to) of people will openly voice their displeasure in public.  By those numbers, you are talking anywhere from 750,000-1.5million people ticked off at the ending enough to want it changed without going beyond Retake numbers.  Add in the rest and you go even higher.   Add in people who hate the ending, but don't care enough to cause a stink and the numbers go even higher.  

I think you're not talking anywhere near a minority hating the ending .... what you may be talking about is a minority of people who hate the ending so much that they refuse to let it go and will keep hammering BioWare to change it over the long haul.  You want a true minority, take a look at the number of people who "absolutely love" the ME3 ending and wouldn't change a thing.  

MX2

The sales figure is in the freaking article. Come the **** on. You can type paragraphs of made up statistics but can't be bothered to read the article? I think the silent majority is realizing that the vocal minority are a joke.

[RealStyli]

How is the writing in video games going to maintain a high standard if we don't complain when we see something that is clearly below par. If I did a terrible job, I'd like someone to tell me and not put me in a bubble telling me that I'm great. That just leads to a drop in quality.

The writing of the ending of Mass Effect 3 isn't just below par for the series, it's below par for the entire franchise. Only the Dietz novel is wrought with more inconsistencies and plot-holes. If BioWare thrive to be a company capable of truly great writing then they have to be willing to take criticism.

Anyone who didn't find flaws in the ending of Mass Effect 3 are not actually fans of the series, IMO. You can't be a fan of something and allow it to drop to a level that low. The real fans want the series to have an epic ending, one that will make the series unforgettable as a masterpiece of Sci Fi. At the moment it will be unforgettable for all the wrong reasons.

[/rant]

[AngryFrozenWater]

Mr Pachter found a way to hurt his own company by insulting his customers. That's a new one. Very creative. He has never done this before. Ghehe.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 07 avril 2012 - 11:16 .

[sargon1986]

Obviously he doesnt know what he is talking about. Video game analyst my ass.

[RaenImrahl]

Discussion = good. Bickering = bad. Be good.