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[The Night Mammoth]

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

How, exactly, does Shepard's arrival at the conveniently placed Reaper control room that no one had ever noticed when flying past the Citadel prove the solution wont work? 

If the Reaper's can't be beaten conventionally, then the kid can just leave Shepard there to die, and continue the cycle. 

Please, inform us underlings, oh Avatar of analytical skill.

[The Angry One]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

How, exactly, does Shepard's arrival at the conveniently placed Reaper control room that no one had ever noticed when flying past the Citadel prove the solution wont work? 

If the Reaper's can't be beaten conventionally, then the kid can just leave Shepard there to die, and continue the cycle. 

Please, inform us underlings, oh Avatar of analytical skill.

Here's the thing, the Reapers can be beaten conventionally. Destroy merely offers the easy way out, and comes with a "take you with us" caveat.

[legion999]

Because this krogan was right the entire time.

[sth128]

Harbinger was too evil to let Shepard die a simple death. No, Harbinger wanted Shepard to suffer, to witness the inevitable ending Bioware had planned for him and all his friends.

To this day, if you listen carefully, you can hear Harbinger and his ilks speculating the suffering Shepard endured at the last moments of his life.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

I'm well aware of that line and understand what they said.  It's that it doesn't make sense that have ending haters on the move.

The Crucible changed the Catalyst... but meanwhile... the Reapers are still out there killing organics (you can see it yourself).  So what changed?

And again, why would you believe a word the Reaper King said when one of the Reaper's primary weapons is deception/indoctrination/using weak-minded people that believed what they had to say...?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 07 avril 2012 - 10:38 .

[Naturalus]

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe Reapers (please don't do this ) and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

btw. If Catalyst was able to design tech that wipes all synthetics by  pressing one button why he made Reapers to kill all organics in the first place at every 50 000 years? Catalyst could have desing tech that wipes all organics with one button press or turns them to synthetics or husks? Why the Catalyst choose that this super tech is only for Shepard to use why he did not use it himself this super one button press whole Universe turned to  husks tech?

I mean this game was fantastic with story and characters and voice actors but what comes to ending it just explode my head.

Modifié par Naturalus, 07 avril 2012 - 10:40 .

[Provo_101]

The Angry One wrote...

The agenda of the Reapers is based on the Catalyst's warped logic.
The Catalyst's warped logic is that all organics and synthetics can't be trusted, so if they ever reach a point they could be a threat (by building the Crucible) he will simply reset them all to the year zero.
All synthetics destroyed, all current organic civilisation destroyed. In it's mind, this buys "time" and furthers it's agenda.

This also means organics have wasted time and resources building the Crucible instead of defeating the Reapers conventionally, which would be the ONLY way the Reapers actually lose.

But there isn't any time LEFT for the Reapers after this, they're dead. Eventually synthetics will be remade, it MAY or may not be a win for organics, but it is definitely a loss for the Reapers as they can no longer carry out their cycle. Destroy just allows organics to follow their own path and make their own choices, without the Reapers enforcing "lawlgenocide" every 50,000 years.

Modifié par Provo_101, 07 avril 2012 - 10:37 .

[azereus2]

there is no ¨ reaper king ¨, the reapers are each a nation independant from each other.
Harbinger is considered the oldest and largest of the fleet... of the ¨know reaper fleet¨.

maybe he didnt saw sheperd getting up. the reapers are absolutists, so maybe he tought ¨hes dead.. im done here¨ and left.

[rachellouise]

Naturalus wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe Reapers (please don't do this ) and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

btw. If Catalyst was able to design tech that wipes all synthetics by  pressing one button why he made Reapers to kill all organics in the first place at every 50 000 years? Catalyst could have desing tech that wipes all organics with one button press or turns them to synthetics or husks? Why the hech Catalys choose that this super tech is only for Shepard to use?

I mean this game was fantastic with story and characters and voice actors but what comes to ending it just explode my head.

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

[Provo_101]

azereus2 wrote...

there is no ¨ reaper king ¨, the reapers are each a nation independant from each other.
Harbinger is considered the oldest and largest of the fleet... of the ¨know reaper fleet¨.

maybe he didnt saw sheperd getting up. the reapers are absolutists, so maybe he tought ¨hes dead.. im done here¨ and left.

So the Normandy can pick up a book on the surface of a planet, from ORBIT. But Harbinger, an advanced warship with super-advanced technology can't tell if Shep is alive from a few meters away?

[Ziggeh]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

How, exactly, does Shepard's arrival at the conveniently placed Reaper control room that no one had ever noticed when flying past the Citadel prove the solution wont work?

I think it's reasonable to assume that he works on probabilities over extended periods, the notion that possibilities given time become inevitabilities.

If it's proven to him that there is the possibility of the Reapers being defeated then it's only a matter of time until it happens, and from his ancient perspective it doesn't matter if that's now or in a million years, it still renders his solution ultimately futile.

Now, he could just spend the next few hundred years building bigger Reapers, do a better job of clearing up ancient ruins and the like and come up with a few back up plans to the whole reliance on the keepers pushing the button thing, but that's another issue entirely.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

azereus2 wrote...

there is no ¨ reaper king ¨, the reapers are each a nation independant from each other.
Harbinger is considered the oldest and largest of the fleet... of the ¨know reaper fleet¨.

maybe he didnt saw sheperd getting up. the reapers are absolutists, so maybe he tought ¨hes dead.. im done here¨ and left.

Catalyst:  "The Reapers are mine. I control them. They are my solution."
                "I control the Reapers. They are my solution."


The Catalyst is the Reaper King.

[The Angry One]

azereus2 wrote...

there is no ¨ reaper king ¨, the reapers are each a nation independant from each other.
Harbinger is considered the oldest and largest of the fleet... of the ¨know reaper fleet¨.

maybe he didnt saw sheperd getting up. the reapers are absolutists, so maybe he tought ¨hes dead.. im done here¨ and left.

They are the mind controlled toys of a single leader, the Catalyst. The Reaper overlord.
What Sovereign said is now irrelevant, like everything else in Mass Effect.

[The Night Mammoth]

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

How, exactly, does Shepard's arrival at the conveniently placed Reaper control room that no one had ever noticed when flying past the Citadel prove the solution wont work? 

If the Reaper's can't be beaten conventionally, then the kid can just leave Shepard there to die, and continue the cycle. 

Please, inform us underlings, oh Avatar of analytical skill.

Here's the thing, the Reapers can be beaten conventionally. Destroy merely offers the easy way out, and comes with a "take you with us" caveat.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I think they could have been beaten conventionally too. They show you do it a number of times, and repeatedly inform you of Hacket's efforts to fight the Reapers in every sector. That's all after they insist that this cycle is special, and that the Reaper's plans haven't gone anywhere near what they wanted them to. 

[Provo_101]

rachellouise wrote...

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

So the controls were just lying on the Citadel anyway, huh?

Past civilizations had no way of knowing this, and could not possibly build a machine to cater to those options.

[Evil Minion]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Taking the plot at face value... why would the Catalyst, King of the Reapers... let Shepard just "win?"

He was almost dead to begin with... and we already know that the Catalyst controls the Reapers... so why wasn't a new Marauder Shields sent up while they were talking to blow Shepard away?

Why does the Catalyst roughly say "Hey Shepard, if you want to destroy us go ahead, I won't stop you... feel free to do whatever you want."?


Bioware... you have the floor.

Why didn't they kill him in "Arrival?"

They had the perfect opportunity.

We may never know.

[Calibrations Expert]

Shepard and the Crucible killed far more people than the reapers could. He not only destroyed all advanced life in the known galaxy, he destroyed all unadvanced life, all planets, and now no future cycles can use the Mass Relays because they won't have another one to connect it to.

[Zuka999]

Yeah, unless the galaxy is winning in a conventional war it has absolutely no cause to even offer this as a solution. Its really, really bad writing.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Evil Minion wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Taking the plot at face value... why would the Catalyst, King of the Reapers... let Shepard just "win?"

He was almost dead to begin with... and we already know that the Catalyst controls the Reapers... so why wasn't a new Marauder Shields sent up while they were talking to blow Shepard away?

Why does the Catalyst roughly say "Hey Shepard, if you want to destroy us go ahead, I won't stop you... feel free to do whatever you want."?


Bioware... you have the floor.

Why didn't they kill him in "Arrival?"

They had the perfect opportunity.

We may never know.

The Reaper King may not have felt the urgency... it wasn't like Shepard was about to wipe the Reapers out or anything...

[Shallyah]

The only truth, regardless interpretations and "lots of specualtion for everyone" is that there isn't a "good" ending. All of them have hard moral choices that go against what Shepard stands for, at least if you played him as Paragon. I can see how a Renegade Shepard would enjoy having an army of pet Reapers to do his/her bidding, assuming the kid isn't lying.

It comes down to accepting partial defeat in the name of what appears as a greater good. But in reality, no self-respecting Shepard would take no sh!t from the Godchild or accept any of his terms.

Modifié par Shallyah, 07 avril 2012 - 10:45 .

[rachellouise]

Provo_101 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

So the controls were just lying on the Citadel anyway, huh?

Past civilizations had no way of knowing this, and could not possibly build a machine to cater to those options.

He said that the crucible changed him. As the walls and everything were shifting below, then it's likely these did /not/ exist before the crucible became part of it.

[pistolols]

so much derp. i fear that even clarification DLC will not be enough for this audience to understand what exactly is happening at the end.

[The Angry One]

Shallyah wrote...

It comes down to accepting partial defeat in the name of what appears as a greater good. But in reality, no self-respecting Shepard would take no sh!t from the Godchild or accept any of his terms.

In the end that we agree on.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

pistolols wrote...

so much derp. i fear that even clarification DLC will not be enough for this audience to understand what exactly is happening at the end.

If you understand it, please share with the class.

[goose2989]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

He was laughing too hard at the ending, couldn't focus fire.