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[Naturalus]

rachellouise wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe Reapers (please don't do this ) and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

btw. If Catalyst was able to design tech that wipes all synthetics by  pressing one button why he made Reapers to kill all organics in the first place at every 50 000 years? Catalyst could have desing tech that wipes all organics with one button press or turns them to synthetics or husks? Why the hech Catalys choose that this super tech is only for Shepard to use?

I mean this game was fantastic with story and characters and voice actors but what comes to ending it just explode my head.

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

Yeah but why Catalyst wont kill Shepard after getting Crucible and go on rampage to destroy all organics with crusible? 

I mean Catalysts could have throw one husk into that synthesis beam to turn whole galaxy all life forms to husks in one sec instead of using Reapers to wage war against organics hundreds of year.

[Iakus]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

azereus2 wrote...

there is no ¨ reaper king ¨, the reapers are each a nation independant from each other.
Harbinger is considered the oldest and largest of the fleet... of the ¨know reaper fleet¨.

maybe he didnt saw sheperd getting up. the reapers are absolutists, so maybe he tought ¨hes dead.. im done here¨ and left.

Catalyst:  "The Reapers are mine. I control them. They are my solution."
                "I control the Reapers. They are my solution."


The Catalyst is the Reaper King.

There you are letting continuity and lore get in the way of "artistic integrety" 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Heck, why would the Catalyst even tell Shepard to "Wake Up?"

[Mr. Gogeta34]

iakus wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

azereus2 wrote...

there is no ¨ reaper king ¨, the reapers are each a nation independant from each other.
Harbinger is considered the oldest and largest of the fleet... of the ¨know reaper fleet¨.

maybe he didnt saw sheperd getting up. the reapers are absolutists, so maybe he tought ¨hes dead.. im done here¨ and left.

Catalyst:  "The Reapers are mine. I control them. They are my solution."
                "I control the Reapers. They are my solution."


The Catalyst is the Reaper King.

There you are letting continuity and lore get in the way of "artistic integrety" 

But... but that is "artistic integrity"

[Provo_101]

rachellouise wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

So the controls were just lying on the Citadel anyway, huh?

Past civilizations had no way of knowing this, and could not possibly build a machine to cater to those options.

He said that the crucible changed him. As the walls and everything were shifting below, then it's likely these did /not/ exist before the crucible became part of it.

Maybe the Synthesis beam, except that invalidates everything Saren was working for in Mass Effect 1 if it was a "new solution". How can the Citadel now shoot

And that still doesn't answer how past civilizations KNEW what the Catalyst was, or what effects it would have. They couldn't POSSIBLY cater a machine specifically to the Catalyst, he says it himself! No one knows he exists! 

[anlk92]

rachellouise wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe Reapers (please don't do this ) and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

btw. If Catalyst was able to design tech that wipes all synthetics by  pressing one button why he made Reapers to kill all organics in the first place at every 50 000 years? Catalyst could have desing tech that wipes all organics with one button press or turns them to synthetics or husks? Why the hech Catalys choose that this super tech is only for Shepard to use?

I mean this game was fantastic with story and characters and voice actors but what comes to ending it just explode my head.

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

 

Then what are those handles and the tube doing in the Cİtadel? They didn't come with the Crucible.

Also why not make the Crucible yourself and throw a husk into the beam if the new options are better?

And if the new options are worse then why not let Shepard bleed to death and come back a few thousand years earlier for the next cycle?

[rachellouise]

Naturalus wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe Reapers (please don't do this ) and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

btw. If Catalyst was able to design tech that wipes all synthetics by  pressing one button why he made Reapers to kill all organics in the first place at every 50 000 years? Catalyst could have desing tech that wipes all organics with one button press or turns them to synthetics or husks? Why the hech Catalys choose that this super tech is only for Shepard to use?

I mean this game was fantastic with story and characters and voice actors but what comes to ending it just explode my head.

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

Yeah but why Catalyst wont kill Shepard after getting Crucible and go on rampage to destroy all organics with crusible? 

I mean Catalysts could have throw one husk into that synthesis beam to turn whole galaxy all life forms to husks in one sec instead of using Reapers to wage war against organics hundreds of year.

It would seem a husk has already lost what is required , "add your energy to the crucible's, everything you are will be absorbed, and then sent out"

then it looks like shepard becomes a husk before the end

[rachellouise]

Provo_101 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Provo_101 wrote...

rachellouise wrote...

Control,synthesis,destroy were new options, made available by the crucible

So the controls were just lying on the Citadel anyway, huh?

Past civilizations had no way of knowing this, and could not possibly build a machine to cater to those options.

He said that the crucible changed him. As the walls and everything were shifting below, then it's likely these did /not/ exist before the crucible became part of it.

Maybe the Synthesis beam, except that invalidates everything Saren was working for in Mass Effect 1 if it was a "new solution". How can the Citadel now shoot

And that still doesn't answer how past civilizations KNEW what the Catalyst was, or what effects it would have. They couldn't POSSIBLY cater a machine specifically to the Catalyst, he says it himself! No one knows he exists! 

That's what I don't get, the crucible is /made to fit/ the citadel, but know one knew the citadel was the catalyst. :/ Unless that information was lost throughout the cycles, or the crucible was started by the starchild himself :/

[Iakus]

anlk92 wrote...

Then what are those handles and the tube doing in the Cİtadel? They didn't come with the Crucible.

Also why not make the Crucible yourself and throw a husk into the beam if the new options are better?

And if the new options are worse then why not let Shepard bleed to death and come back a few thousand years earlier for the next cycle?

That last part really gets me.  If Shepard never regained consciousness, the cycle would have concluded and no decision would have to be made.  the Starchild did everything, from bringing Shepard to the place where no roganic had ever stepped foot, to explaining eveything to Shepard, to providing the chocies.  SHepard effectively did nothing.

Heck he could have at least gone downstairs and gotten TIM's corpse to throw into the Green Synthesis Space Magic beam...

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

Look, the Catalyst designed the Crucible and left it for organics to find.
It is literally it's "Plan B".

Where are you getting that the Catalyst designed the Crucible. According to Javik, it was created by organics and modified and improved upon during each cycle. The Protheans knew that the Citadel acted as a "catalyst", but I assume that just means that they needed the Mass Effect field concentrated in the Citadel to power the crucible effectively.  The citadel, as you know, is the largest and most powerful mass relay in the galaxy. I don't recall any conversation that suggested that the entity calling itself "the catalyst" (which could alternately be called "the citadel") ever designed the crucible. I'm sure it was aware of it's existence, I just don't recall anything suggesting it designed it.

[Tedler]

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

How, exactly, does Shepard's arrival at the conveniently placed Reaper control room that no one had ever noticed when flying past the Citadel prove the solution wont work? 

If the Reaper's can't be beaten conventionally, then the kid can just leave Shepard there to die, and continue the cycle. 

Please, inform us underlings, oh Avatar of analytical skill.

Here's the thing, the Reapers can be beaten conventionally. Destroy merely offers the easy way out, and comes with a "take you with us" caveat.

What proof is there that the entire Reaper army can be defeated conventionally?

[parrmi22]

I just found it hard to take anything at the end seriously when I was be scolded by some little kid.

[Provo_101]

rachellouise wrote...

That's what I don't get, the crucible is /made to fit/ the citadel, but know one knew the citadel was the catalyst. :/ Unless that information was lost throughout the cycles, or the crucible was started by the starchild himself :/

Exactly, if your agenda is to clear the galaxy of all synthetics, then why assist the creation of synthetic life by leaving advanced technology for organics to find, speeding up the process? Synthesis may be the new option presented by the Crucible, but Control and Destroy are still there. If you have an off switch that destroys all synthetics, completing your goal, why not use it? Sure, it may deactivate/destroy (whatever your opinion) the relays and the Citadel, but the Reapers can rebuild them, no? 

Oh, but the Reapers are ALSO destroyed by using that off-switch, so what's the point of them creating the Destroy/Control options on the Citadel in the first place?  

Modifié par Provo_101, 07 avril 2012 - 11:12 .

[Jeb231]

None. Hackett even mention they are working on the crucible because they have no alternative to defeat the reapers.

[Provo_101]

Jeb231 wrote...

None. Hackett even mention they are working on the crucible because they have no alternative to defeat the reapers.

If you were quoting me, I meant why did the Reapers bother creating the Destroy/Control options on the Citadel.

Didn't mean the Crucible.

[Naturalus]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Heck, why would the Catalyst even tell Shepard to "Wake Up?"

He needed Shepard wake up for his commit suicide solutions. Last part of Catalyst plan was that Shepard burns in every solution. That why. It is not clear why Shepard had to die in every solution that  Catalyst had chosen and agreed ready for Shepard.

It is not clear why Catalyst helped Shepard to destroy all Reapers as one solution but clearly he wanted to explode many things like all mass relays and burn Shepard.

Dont get me wrong I loved ME 3 but I dont think my Shepard would have gone down this way.

[noobcannon]

because he was so tiny he didn't see him.

[Reorte]

Tedler wrote...

What proof is there that the entire Reaper army can be defeated conventionally?

A few destroyers get taken down with relative ease. Some bigger Reapers are seen taking serious-looking damage in the battle, so yes, in theory they could be defeated conventionally if you've got a big enough fleet to destroy them before they destroy you. The implication is that you don't.

Personally I'd have preferred the whole Crucible business to just provide your forces with something to give them a bit of an edge over the Reapers rather than a magic anti-Reaper spray.

[Oldbones2]

Cause he's a jerk, and he knows that for some reason you will pick one of the choices. All of which contain favorable outcomes for him.

See TV TROPES Xanatos Gambit.

Basically, because he can't lose and he wants to mess with you.

[rachellouise]

well it was thought up by a guy who thinks the way to save organic life, is to basically destroy organic life, and reaper-fie them xd

[Reorte]

Naturalus wrote...

He needed Shepard wake up for his commit suicide solutions. Last part of Catalyst plan was that Shepard burns in every solution. That why. It is not clear why Shepard had to die in every solution that  Catalyst had chosen and agreed ready for Shepard.

Because Shepard had to die otherwise it would've been cheesy rainbows and butterflies. Got to be sad to be artistic and fulfilling.

Trying to put some sense into this (not wise!) all I can think of is that the Catalyst really didn't want Shepard to chose Destroy but the only way to stop him was to try to talk him into something else, possibly lying about the extent of collateral damage.

[poundoffleshaa]

I still don't see how a bunch of technical primitives (compared to the proto-empire / reapers who built the relays) could creates something as ridiculously advanced as the crucible without ever understanding what it did or how it worked. You would think to add to the device they would need to understand how it worked otherwise they would be just as likely to ruin the machine as advance it. The only thing I can assume is that the original plans where created by the proto-empire/ reapers alongside the citadel and mass relays, probably as a means of dispersing the solution.

[AtlasMickey]

The Catalyst is aware that Shepard has evolved a kind of emotional maturity that surpasses his and has never before been seen in the history of the galaxy. Javik tells us that previous cycles were dominated by ruthless empires who conquered and enslaved the other races. This is what informs the Catalyst's logic. Given the way these empires behaved it was only natural for them to ascend to an ancient race of killing machines who prioritize order over everything else.

So the Catalyst, further influenced by the Crucible, and the fact that Shepard has been building the kinds of alliances that kill Reapers and resist them so strongly, resisting indoctrination even, recognizes that it's time for something new.

[Reorte]

AtlasMickey wrote...

The Catalyst is aware that Shepard has evolved a kind of emotional maturity that surpasses his and has never before been seen in the history of the galaxy. Javik tells us that previous cycles were dominated by ruthless empires who conquered and enslaved the other races. This is what informs the Catalyst's logic. Given the way these empires behaved it was only natural for them to ascend to an ancient race of killing machines who prioritize order over everything else.

So the Catalyst, further influenced by the Crucible, and the fact that Shepard has been building the kinds of alliances that kill Reapers and resist them so strongly, resisting indoctrination even, recognizes that it's time for something new.

If it thought Shepard had a point then it could have the Reapers simply clear off.

[Heimdall]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Taking the plot at face value... why would the Catalyst, King of the Reapers... let Shepard just "win?"

He was almost dead to begin with... and we already know that the Catalyst controls the Reapers... so why wasn't a new Marauder Shields sent up while they were talking to blow Shepard away?

Why does the Catalyst roughly say "Hey Shepard, if you want to destroy us go ahead, I won't stop you... feel free to do whatever you want."?


Bioware... you have the floor.

Trolling, or didn't even try to pay attention to the ending