222 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...
For some reason he wants you to make a choice quickly. The only "sane" reason I could see is that he's enjoying seeing you agonizing over deciding fates of civilizations in limited time you have.
If he's insane, no need for reason. He just want's you to choose without dithering, it's so amuzing.

If the Reaper King wanted Shepard to make a choice, why did he have TIM try to kill him?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 13 avril 2012 - 12:50 .

[streamlock]

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

........
Uhm.........
So.........
That even happens when the citidel is closed. i.e. the crucible can not, and has not docked with the citidel yet.  It does not open until post the "Oh, look a control panel-how nice of it to appear" scene.  The harby blast takes place before that event.

So.....
Yeah.......That doesn't really work. 

No insult intended.  I tried 1000 different ways to justify the ending.  It's like that cartoon/old black and white of plugging a dam with your fingers, toes, what have you.  Everytime you plug a hole, your moving your finger to uncork another one. 

Edited for clearification.

Modifié par streamlock, 13 avril 2012 - 12:52 .

[leapingmonkeys]

For that matter why didn't they just turn off the beam they used to transport up to the Citadel? Or why didn't the Reapers use the Citadel to turn off the mass relays to isolate all the organics from each other and prevent the fleet from getting to Earth?

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...
For some reason he wants you to make a choice quickly. The only "sane" reason I could see is that he's enjoying seeing you agonizing over deciding fates of civilizations in limited time you have.
If he's insane, no need for reason. He just want's you to choose without dithering, it's so amuzing.

If the Reaper King wanted Shepard to make a choice, why did he have TIM try to kill him?

It's always interesting when there are little bets. Who will win? That's if he's insane.
If he's just sadistic, he'd probably enjoy humans shooting each other, especially when it against their whole moral fiber (Paragon making Renegade interrupts).

[Mr. Gogeta34]

[quote]Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...
If the Reaper King wanted Shepard to make a choice, why did he have TIM try to kill him?[/quote]
It's always interesting when there are little bets. Who will win? That's if he's insane.
If he's just sadistic, he'd probably enjoy humans shooting each other, especially when it against their whole moral fiber (Paragon making Renegade interrupts).
[/quote]

Why did the Reaper King (through TIM) want Shepard "to believe" before trying to kill him?

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

He probably didn't control TIM like puppet. He just pushed in right direction emotionally and let him do the rest.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

He probably didn't control TIM like puppet. He just pushed in right direction emotionally and let him do the rest.

They "already controlled him."   It could be through suggestion but his goals were the goals of the Reapers until he broke free (if he broke free).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 13 avril 2012 - 01:50 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

What I meant if TIM is controlled it doesn't mean much what he's blabbering.
If astroboy wants him to try to shoot shep (and make shep kill him in self-defence), he just sends command "try to kill shep", and TIM will try to rationalize why he suddenly wants to do it

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

What I meant if TIM is controlled it doesn't mean much what he's blabbering.
If astroboy wants him to try to shoot shep (and make shep kill him in self-defence), he just sends command "try to kill shep", and TIM will try to rationalize why he suddenly wants to do it

Grayson and Shepard didn't have that problem.  Reaper technology can take over absolutely.  It doesn't have to always make sense to the victim to do an act that the Reapers want.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 14 avril 2012 - 05:44 .

[TJX2045]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Taking the plot at face value... why would the Catalyst, King of the Reapers... let Shepard just "win?"

He was almost dead to begin with... and we already know that the Catalyst controls the Reapers... so why wasn't a new Marauder Shields sent up while they were talking to blow Shepard away?

Why does the Catalyst roughly say "Hey Shepard, if you want to destroy us go ahead, I won't stop you... feel free to do whatever you want."?


Bioware... you have the floor.

Since all we have is speculation, I'm gonna go with it was Harbinger in disguise trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

[cotheer]

...which leads to a yet another question: Why didn't Harbys' beam kill shepard?
I mean, it can take down ships and what not, but in this case it was just...fart.
Did he miss on purpose, or was just too tired and wanted to get home and watch another "Reaper shore" episode.

[Filanwizard]

Same reason bond villains do not just shoot bond in the head on initial capture. They are dumb.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TJX2045 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Taking the plot at face value... why would the Catalyst, King of the Reapers... let Shepard just "win?"

He was almost dead to begin with... and we already know that the Catalyst controls the Reapers... so why wasn't a new Marauder Shields sent up while they were talking to blow Shepard away?

Why does the Catalyst roughly say "Hey Shepard, if you want to destroy us go ahead, I won't stop you... feel free to do whatever you want."?


Bioware... you have the floor.

Since all we have is speculation, I'm gonna go with it was Harbinger in disguise trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

What if that's not what happened?  Is there another answer that makes sense?

[TJX2045]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Since all we have is speculation, I'm gonna go with it was Harbinger in disguise trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

What if that's not what happened?  Is there another answer that makes sense?

If that isn't really what happened, then...

Modifié par TJX2045, 14 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[Redban103]

Like the indoc theory its like were trying to give bioware more credit again, when really what we were delivered was a carelessly overlooked ending.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

That seems more and more likely as time goes on. Bioware may have simply dropped the ball...

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Anti-Retakers, any of you want to take a crack at answering this?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 20 avril 2012 - 02:47 .

[nrcrane]

He lets Shepard continue on, because the catalyst himself is a pawn. In the extended cut you will see Shepard start moving forward to pick one of the 3 original choices, but before he reaches his choice an elevator will appear and take him up to the next level where the Catalyst's master resides.

This new master has actually been alluded to in all 3 games as AI. Most people mistakenly think AI refers to "Artifical Intelligence" when in fact it refers to "Artistic Integrity." Artistic Integrity is the actual master of the Mass Effect universe, and it will tell you that it's reason for creating the catalyst is because 2+2 = Chicken.

Hope this made things clear.

[oneyedjohn]

I don't think that starchild is a true AI. or if he is an AI he was like EDI in most of ME2.

that is he he is bound by some long forgotten code to always fallow the cycle of destruction. and it worked until Shepard F'ed it up the process and is now getting "new" directions on how to shape the universe.

Shepard has become that little piece of code the wrecks the system. and to "cure" the new problem, starchild is using a handshake protocol to figure out the type of code "fix" it.

I think anyway, could just be bad writing.

[humes spork]

Starbrat already knew it was screwed, whether the current cycle continued or not organics had figured out, built, and deployed the Crucible -- and were sufficiently advanced to ensure that the extinction would not be complete and that knowledge of the Reapers wouldn't be completely wiped out before retreating to dark space.

The Normandy alone would be capable of performing such a feat, let alone a circumstance like salarians constructing an IES-equipped "ark" to ensure their species' survival into the next cycle, launched and pointed at the nearest-known garden world or helium-3 rich gas giant a few thousand light years away from a known mass relay. And you can't even pretend to tell me the salarians wouldn't pull a move like that. Hell I'd be surprised and a little let down if the salarians didn't already have secret colonies for super off-the-record R&D.

Pointing Shepard in the direction of the "win" button of Shepard's choice was the "terms of its surrender", so to speak.

Modifié par humes spork, 20 avril 2012 - 03:33 .

[Portia Cousland]

nrcrane wrote...

He lets Shepard continue on, because the catalyst himself is a pawn. In the extended cut you will see Shepard start moving forward to pick one of the 3 original choices, but before he reaches his choice an elevator will appear and take him up to the next level where the Catalyst's master resides.

This new master has actually been alluded to in all 3 games as AI. Most people mistakenly think AI refers to "Artifical Intelligence" when in fact it refers to "Artistic Integrity." Artistic Integrity is the actual master of the Mass Effect universe, and it will tell you that it's reason for creating the catalyst is because 2+2 = Chicken.

Hope this made things clear.

This made me smile. Clever 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

nrcrane wrote...

He lets Shepard continue on, because the catalyst himself is a pawn. In the extended cut you will see Shepard start moving forward to pick one of the 3 original choices, but before he reaches his choice an elevator will appear and take him up to the next level where the Catalyst's master resides.

This new master has actually been alluded to in all 3 games as AI. Most people mistakenly think AI refers to "Artifical Intelligence" when in fact it refers to "Artistic Integrity." Artistic Integrity is the actual master of the Mass Effect universe, and it will tell you that it's reason for creating the catalyst is because 2+2 = Chicken.

Hope this made things clear.

Well played.

[KingZayd]

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe Reapers (please don't do this ) and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

But that's rubbish. we only made it into his sanctum because he brought us up. Shepard had failed, conventional victory was impossible. the reapers could go on reaping for this cycle and several after.

[liggy002]

Because...... um..... well....... you see the thing about that is..........

[satunnainen]

Because it thought it did. Fortunately Shepard had that good old N7 armor as underwear under the usual armor, so Shepard could take a lot bigger blast of the red laser than other soldiers and still survive. Proof: you can still see the remnants of the badly burned N7 armor on Shepard when (s)he limps towards the Citadel and during the rest of the game.