222 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

Starbrat already knew it was screwed, whether the current cycle continued or not organics had figured out, built, and deployed the Crucible -- and were sufficiently advanced to ensure that the extinction would not be complete and that knowledge of the Reapers wouldn't be completely wiped out before retreating to dark space.

The Normandy alone would be capable of performing such a feat, let alone a circumstance like salarians constructing an IES-equipped "ark" to ensure their species' survival into the next cycle, launched and pointed at the nearest-known garden world or helium-3 rich gas giant a few thousand light years away from a known mass relay. And you can't even pretend to tell me the salarians wouldn't pull a move like that. Hell I'd be surprised and a little let down if the salarians didn't already have secret colonies for super off-the-record R&D.

Pointing Shepard in the direction of the "win" button of Shepard's choice was the "terms of its surrender", so to speak.

And the Crucible could be destroyed before it could be used, since Shepard had failed. So it wasn't screwed. The assembled might of the non-reaper galaxy was here, and the Reapers could destroy them. Taking the rest of the worlds would take time, but the reapers have displayed great patience throughout the series.

an ark? could be intercepted by the reapers and boom failure. In fact the interferometric arrays attached to the crucible give a realtime map of the galaxy, including the positions of every reaper in the galaxy. Surely could be used by the reapers to see all the non-reaper vessels in the galaxy?

[liggy002]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe all current synthetics and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

He just had TIM try to kill Shepard a few moments ago.... after trying to make him "believe."

He controls the entire armada of Reapers and their agents... tried to have Shepard killed just moments before... and is now willing to let him decide what's what?  Just like that?

What happened to the whole "I am beyond your comprehension" peking order and superiority complex of the Reapers?

This is why the IT theory is so awesome and the doubters of it will never understand.

[wright1978]

No need to kill Shep, much more pleasurable to make Shep its dogsbody trotting off to pick one of its hand picked solutions.

[guacamayus]

The catalyst needed Shepard to activate the crucible, he even says so. Once the Crucible is attached its programming or whatever is altered.

And by the way, the Geth were very close to building a Dyson's Sphere, proving that the catalyst's logic wasn't completely wrong to begin with, they were one step away to surpass all organic races.

Modifié par guacamayus, 20 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[liggy002]

What I find funny is that he says the crucible changed him. So, with the low EMS ending, the Crucible changed the Reapers into a group of suicidal cyborgs?

[DJBare]

KingZayd wrote...

But that's rubbish. we only made it into his sanctum because he brought us up. Shepard had failed, conventional victory was impossible. the reapers could go on reaping for this cycle and several after.

Apart from the harby lasering Shepard scene, this is also another one that gets me, Shepard was bleeding out with no where to go, then glowboy decides to give Shepard a lift(literally), if I'd been glowboy I'd be looking down at Shepard saying "pfft, one of you reapers harvest this mess"

[nlag]

Provo_101 wrote...

Because art.

I v read the entire thread, i think your answer explains everything.

And i laughed alot tbh.

What i m bothered with the most is not the ending, but the way BW is defending it.

Modifié par nlag, 20 avril 2012 - 07:49 .

[liggy002]

The Reapers have a purpose for billions of years and then they hand the reins over to Shepard and just trust that he is going to carry out their plans (Blue and Red endings). Just like that, here you go Shepard. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. And don't give me that the Catalyst was reprogrammed by the Crucible garbage, that's even stupider.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[KingZayd]

liggy002 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

According himself, that a human had made it into that chamber proved that his "Solution" was no longer valid.

He gives you three choices:


*Red - Prove me wrong. Wipe all current synthetics and prove that organics can rule the galaxy without being doomed to eventual extinction.

*Blue - Prove me right. Control the Reapers as if you were me, sooner or later you will see my logic in your own eyes and cause mass genocide yourself.

*Green - Prove me even more right. Synthetics and Organics can not coexist. So make us all the same. Nevermind those who wouldn't consent on messing with their genes, or those thta would prefer to die rather than become half synthetic, we're not asking them anyway.

He just had TIM try to kill Shepard a few moments ago.... after trying to make him "believe."

He controls the entire armada of Reapers and their agents... tried to have Shepard killed just moments before... and is now willing to let him decide what's what?  Just like that?

What happened to the whole "I am beyond your comprehension" peking order and superiority complex of the Reapers?

This is why the IT theory is so awesome and the doubters of it will never understand.

Also if you look at posters advocating synthesis and control, they SOUND indoctrinated.

TIM just controlled you pretty well using indoctrination tech. why do people think Shepard's immune again? TIM was a noob compared to the reapers.  Also, if the Starchild does exist and does control the reapers, its very likely through indoctrination. That's how all the cool kids control people these days, and TIM seems to think he can control the reapers after studying what? INDOCTRINATION. Now if the Starchild can indoctrinate reapers, again why is Shepard supposedly immune to it?

[KingZayd]

DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But that's rubbish. we only made it into his sanctum because he brought us up. Shepard had failed, conventional victory was impossible. the reapers could go on reaping for this cycle and several after.

Apart from the harby lasering Shepard scene, this is also another one that gets me, Shepard was bleeding out with no where to go, then glowboy decides to give Shepard a lift(literally), if I'd been glowboy I'd be looking down at Shepard saying "pfft, one of you reapers harvest this mess"

At the very worst, it's just "phew.. that was close.. i guess i should post some guards next time, huh?"

[guacamayus]

KingZayd wrote...

DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But that's rubbish. we only made it into his sanctum because he brought us up. Shepard had failed, conventional victory was impossible. the reapers could go on reaping for this cycle and several after.

Apart from the harby lasering Shepard scene, this is also another one that gets me, Shepard was bleeding out with no where to go, then glowboy decides to give Shepard a lift(literally), if I'd been glowboy I'd be looking down at Shepard saying "pfft, one of you reapers harvest this mess"

At the very worst, it's just "phew.. that was close.. i guess i should post some guards next time, huh?"

this is speculation but maybe he wanted shepard to use the crucible, I mean the Catalyst seems pretty convinced that synthesis could fix all of their problems.

I actually remember some part of the leaked script and the catalyst says something like ;"the crucible has altered my perceptions I can't proceed", maybe he required interaction with an organic

Modifié par guacamayus, 20 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[KingZayd]

guacamayus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But that's rubbish. we only made it into his sanctum because he brought us up. Shepard had failed, conventional victory was impossible. the reapers could go on reaping for this cycle and several after.

Apart from the harby lasering Shepard scene, this is also another one that gets me, Shepard was bleeding out with no where to go, then glowboy decides to give Shepard a lift(literally), if I'd been glowboy I'd be looking down at Shepard saying "pfft, one of you reapers harvest this mess"

At the very worst, it's just "phew.. that was close.. i guess i should post some guards next time, huh?"

this is speculation but maybe he wanted shepard to use the crucible, I mean the Catalyst seems pretty convinced that synthesis could fix all of their problems.

Then why not only give us synthesis? why give us a choice?

[guacamayus]

Sorry I edited my post to clarify a little more but it was too late, I'll repost it here;

I actually remember some part of the leaked script and the catalyst says something like ;"the crucible has altered my perceptions I can't proceed", maybe he required interaction with an organic

Anyway the most likely scenario is that the crucible forces him to interact with organics to make a choice; "I can't proceed" makesit pretty clear. However this could also be wrong since the catalyst doesn't command the reapers to stop once the crucible is in place. This could be explained by saying that the Reapers had a "base programming" in which they choose and act but always under the catalyst's design, all of this without even knowing of its existence...

damn my brain hurts... xD

at least they succeded at one of their goals, there's room for too much speculation

Modifié par guacamayus, 20 avril 2012 - 08:19 .

[KingZayd]

guacamayus wrote...

Sorry I edited my post to clarify a little more but it was too late, I'll repost it here;

I actually remember some part of the leaked script and the catalyst says something like ;"the crucible has altered my perceptions I can't proceed", maybe he required interaction with an organic

Anyway the most likely scenario is that the crucible forces him to interact with organics to make a choice; "I can't proceed" makesit pretty clear. However this could also be wrong since the catalyst doesn't command the reapers to stop once the crucible is in place. This could be explained by saying that the Reapers had a "base programming" in which they choose and act but always under the catalyst's design, all of this without even knowing of its existence...

damn my brain hurts... xD

at least they succeded at one of their goals, there's room for too much speculation

It makes a bit more sense if you assume he really does prefer synthesis. The problem is as portrayed, he seems to control those walkways (they only activate after he finishes talking). The only explanation that allows the choice and makes sense to me is indoctrination. Why allow the choice? so that we actively reject destroy, in favour of other options.

Yeah, definitely speculation. Which is one thing that bothers me when people said we're reading too much into it. Reading into it is an important part of speculation.

[Omega Torsk]

Because he just realized that he had a soufflé in the oven...

[Hexxys]

Well, folks figured it was because of indoctrination. But Bioware actually came out and denied that, confirming that whoever wrote the endings is bad at their job. I never expected it to be indoctrination, but honestly... It's hard to accept that what happens is actually... What happens. Oy vey.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Because he just realized that he had a soufflé in the oven...

I think this is the most plausible explanation.

[Carmin_Steele]

Hey, another thing .... the Cruicible..? It couldn't dock without the arms open..? Why? It docks on the OUTSIDE of the ring, it's not blocked in anyway from reaching the place it connects to. In ME1 when the arms were closed, the ring at the end - where the Crucible docks - is still open. same thing in ME3.

The Citadel is made with the arms connected to the presidium ring; we obviously know this. However, when the arms close, it only prevents things from attacking the inside of the ward arms from outside, the Presidium ring and tower are still visible from the 'back'... So.. my question is why exactly does Shepard even have to open the arms?

[Elite Midget]

Because the ending is a worse fate than death.

[Carmin_Steele]

guacamayus wrote...

The catalyst needed Shepard to activate the crucible, he even says so. Once the Crucible is attached its programming or whatever is altered.

And by the way, the Geth were very close to building a Dyson's Sphere, proving that the catalyst's logic wasn't completely wrong to begin with, they were one step away to surpass all organic races.

Surpass, maybe, but all they wanted to do was live there in peace. Star-baby says that syntetics want to wipe out and destroy all organics, completely different than what the Geth wanted. With a star as their source, the geth would've stayed there, without the need of anyone else ever again, except to move to another star billions of years later when the one they were around burned out.

[MakeMineMako]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Taking the plot at face value... why would the Catalyst, King of the Reapers... let Shepard just "win?"

He was almost dead to begin with... and we already know that the Catalyst controls the Reapers... so why wasn't a new Marauder Shields sent up while they were talking to blow Shepard away?

Why does the Catalyst roughly say "Hey Shepard, if you want to destroy us go ahead, I won't stop you... feel free to do whatever you want."?


Bioware... you have the floor.

Because the little upstart ass monkey didn't have nowhere near Harbinger's level of pure awesome.

[Turbotanden]

"My solution won't work anymore. The fact that you are standing here proves it."
She is only standing there because YOU brought her up on a MAGICAL ELEVATOR.

[shodiswe]

pistolols wrote...

This thread is proof ending haters do not properly understand the ending. If you do not understand this question, you do not understand what happened at the end at all.

Catalyst: "The crucible changed me"

Anyway.. when i saw thread title i thought this would be about Arrival haha.

If the crucible changed the reaper king... then talk to it, make it stop this madness, no need for further sacrifices... Nm... I never get a chance to talk to it... Bioware didn't spend the time to write conversation options for this epic ending...

[humes spork]

KingZayd wrote...

And the Crucible could be destroyed before it could be used, since Shepard had failed. So it wasn't screwed. The assembled might of the non-reaper galaxy was here, and the Reapers could destroy them. Taking the rest of the worlds would take time, but the reapers have displayed great patience throughout the series.

an ark? could be intercepted by the reapers and boom failure. In fact the interferometric arrays attached to the crucible give a realtime map of the galaxy, including the positions of every reaper in the galaxy. Surely could be used by the reapers to see all the non-reaper vessels in the galaxy?

That's...not what I'm getting at. The cat was out of the bag. Organics successfully over the course of two cycles developed countermeasures to the cycle, including an anti-Reaper weapon. The harvest is no longer a guaranteed success, because the current cycle's races developed methods for successfully hiding from the Reapers (having acquired a Reaper IFF and developed IES tech) and disseminating information into the next cycle in the event the current races failed to avoid extinction.

And, in reference to the interferometric arrays, there's not enough information present to make a judgment. For what's present, you could infer reasonably such arrays track by IFF signal and since the organic races coopted a Reaper IFF that would be a weak solution. Especially for the fact that such an ark would likely broadcast no IFF, and in combination with internal emissions sinks (the extant countermeasure to any other known detection method) there's no reason to believe that would succeed.

The cycle was already over, one way or another, and rather than stick to the plan fruitlessly out of a sense of denial or stubbornness starbrat conceded. It did so while it still maintained some sense of control and could guide the organics to a mutually-beneficial, or at least survival-ensuring, conclusion. Consider it a demonstration of good faith, in a way.

The Crucible didn't reprogram or fundamentally alter the Catalyst's programming or reason. It was a new variable introduced that changed the calculus upon which it relied to conclude the cycle was the only means available to it.

Modifié par humes spork, 20 avril 2012 - 02:09 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

KingZayd wrote...

DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But that's rubbish. we only made it into his sanctum because he brought us up. Shepard had failed, conventional victory was impossible. the reapers could go on reaping for this cycle and several after.

Apart from the harby lasering Shepard scene, this is also another one that gets me, Shepard was bleeding out with no where to go, then glowboy decides to give Shepard a lift(literally), if I'd been glowboy I'd be looking down at Shepard saying "pfft, one of you reapers harvest this mess"

At the very worst, it's just "phew.. that was close.. i guess i should post some guards next time, huh?"

Or... just maybe... turn off the beam?