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Unofficial Interview with Patrick Weekes conducted by a fan at Pax - UPDATED


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#1176
M0keys

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kbct wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

By the way, Patrick, John, Reid myself - we were all ready to answer those kinds of questions in dialogue just like the original OP. It was the whole reason we came to PAX. In fact, a lot of people may have gotten a bit *too* much out of me ;)


If you were ready to answer those questions at PAX, then why not now while you're here... with your BSN homies?

I hope this is not the Three-Posts-And-Skedaddle routine.



Probably because it takes a sizable commitment, and things can get pretty ugly online sometimes B)

#1177
Versidious

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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

No, Gamble seems to have escaped guys. Party is over. :(


As ever, Gamble has come like a shadow in the night, dispelled when a light is shed upon him, as if he were never there at all....  Or, something.

Erm.

#1178
kimuji

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The Charnel Expanse wrote...

My question is WHY you're so resistant to retconning him out.
He damages the ending in such a fundamental way that as long as he remains in place, the ending is irredeemable.

At least tell me this - are there any plans to attempt to make his presence in the game more palatable, either by expanding on the dialogue options or changing his role?

Because removing the Catalyst would require a brand new ending, meaning a lot of new work form scratches we can't just ask this especially if they're releasing a free DLC.

But like Michael Gamble said there are many possible workarounds to make significant changes without removing the catalyst/starchild, like these ones I've aleady posted on another thread:

- An additionnal choice allowing the player to point out the flaws of the Starchild's logic, unlocking a more ethical and logical solution. And there is lot of room for negociation, remember we can choose to destroy the Reapers by shooting on the "things" at the end of the path on the right. That should make them think twice before rejecting any possible negociated solution.

 - Change the red ending (the better red one with a very high EMS) in a way that we can suspect that the Starchild was lying and presenting false motives in order to fool Shepard and deter him from destroying the Reapers. Tto do that you just need to keep the Geths alive, because if the Geths are not destroyed by the red beam then: 1/ that will be the evidence we need to suspect the Starchild to be lying or following a flawed logic. 2/ we'll have the ethical end choice the game is still lacking. With that ending you can condsier the Catalyst was lying, but you can also think he was telling the truth but not fully aware of the true effect of the crucible (remember the crucible isn't the Reapers' creation). Theorically that ending could satisfy both people who think that the catalyst is just saying b*******, and people who believe in his explanations.

And the last good news with these solutions is that they won't need that much work from the ME3 developpement team to be implemented in the DLC. They don't even have to modify what the Starchild said. In my opinion either of these fixes could work and provide a good compromise.


Modifié par kimuji, 08 avril 2012 - 07:49 .


#1179
Mr.BlazenGlazen

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Quick, someone do that one ritual dance which seems to attract devs to the forums!

#1180
Cyph3rX

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kbct wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

Luiginius wrote...

Weekes said those were his statements seen through the eyes of the person asking the questions.
I don't know what other confirmation you could ask for. In no way is it accurate, Weekes said that himself, but it's still the best PR piece concerning bioware.
Done by a fan, answers given by a man in the writing team, no pr people in sight.
Paints a pretty clear picture what is the other issue bioware is having besides the ending.


You know, most of us in game development would love to have all the time in the world to make our games, but that doesn't mean we put something out that we don't believe is quality.

As for some of this specifics of the questions...

Of course joker wouldn't abandon Shepard for no reason, and yes - let's not underestimate FTL here :) let's also not forget about quantum communication...or the incredible store of food rations that the Normandy has.

Cmon - give us some time with the DLC, and let's try to avoid hatin' on Patrick or Jessica:P


Why doesn't Bioware just do a Q & A on the forums, it would make a lot of people happy with no room for paraphrasing?

/hopefulplea


Exactly. Remove the PR filter and just talk.


I support this, wouldn't even care if it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I'm just tired of the PR filter. :(

#1181
Xion66

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Wild Michael Gamble has fled...

Modifié par Xion66, 08 avril 2012 - 07:48 .


#1182
Tedler

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Thanks for chiming in Mr. Gamble. Looking forward to the DLC even more so now.

#1183
Reorte

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tobito113 wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

They do not need promisses or discuss future content to calm a lot of people, facing questions like Patrick Weekes just to put a stop to some of the more negative speculations of the ending, may help promote the **** out of their EC

You might be correct, but their policy clearly indicates they prefer to avoid make content promises like this. Look what happened to DA2: Exalted March, they gave us many hints that it was coming and now they cancelled it...

That's an understandable position but right now I honestly feel that it would look far less bad to just keep fans in the loop, acknowledging that nothing is set in stone and may change. Of course when it does change it'll still get some anger, the question is simply which is the least bad route to take. Normally I wouldn't want spoilers before something is released but this damage control scenario is an exception.

#1184
Xyos

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It is great to talk directly to the guys who wrote ME person to person. It should happen more!

Just want to thank you guys for an amazing story up until the end :P Please please do your best to address what we want to the best of your ability.

#1185
Anduin The Grey

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apieros wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

As long as the part about having to resolve the conflict between organics and synthetics remains in place, it's doomed. It completely alters the theme of the series at the worst possible time.

To expand on what's wrong with the Catalyst:

The Catalyst is presented as the solution to an inevitable problem: synthetics will always rebel, and they will always wipe out all life in the galaxy. Thus, the entire ending of the game is an attempt to solve this inevitable conflict.

On its face, this is a bull**** contention. There is nothing in the real world which indicates this to be the case. It's like asserting an inevitable genocidal conflict between ice cream and caterpillars. This makes it hard to build a game around.

But, if you want to do so anyway (in direct contradiction of reason and common sense) you have to establish that, in your own fictional world, this assertion is actually true. You have to give examples of it, in the present and the past. You have to personalize it, in the form of characters and ongoing problems.

You have to give the player chances to solve it (or smaller instances of it) and show how their attempts are futile. Keep increasing the stakes of the conflict. From personal, to planetary, to galactic.

Thus, by the end of the game, players will accept it is a real conflict, and care about solving it, and be desperate for a solution. Enter the Catalyst.

That's how you establish a central theme.

Did they do this with the "inevitable conflict between synthetics and organics"? No, not even a little bit.

Did they do it with anything? Yeah, the Reapers. See the problem?

"Inevitable blah blah" is not only false on its face, the game itself never establishes the conflict as being of critical importance. The conflict between the Reapers and galactic civilization, on the other hand, is the central conflict of the game, and it is that central conflict the ending should have resolved.

That's the problem with the entire Starchild sequence.


I have no idea what you are going on about let alone why?

How about, it's bull****, everyone's dead and the starchild, you write a fanfic that instantly becomes a hit across the entire internet and soon Hollywood make a movie you live happy ever after.

Apologies, maybe it would be just easier to tell us what you want because you are arguing about a story someone else is telling, if they retcon it they retcon it, we've just had some great little tidbits of info from an official source.

So, it's bull****, in black and white by someone who disagrees with whatever you're trying to accomplish, that makes it fact and you can put it in any codex you want and your signature.

Help me out here? Please?

#1186
TheOptimist

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kimuji wrote...
Because removing the Catalyst would require a brand new ending, meaning a lot of new work form scratches we can't just ask this especially if they're releasing a free DLC.

But like Mike said there are many possible workarounds to make significant changes, like these I've aleady posted on another thread:

- An additionnal choice allowing the player to point out the flaws of the Starchild's logic, unlocking a more ethical and logical solution. And there is lot of room for negociation, remember we can choose to destroy the Reapers by shooting on the "things" at the end of the path on the right. That should make them think twice before rejecting any possible negociated solution.

 - Change the red ending (the better red one with a very high EMS) in a way that we can suspect that the Starchild was lying and presenting false motives in order to fool Shepard and dissade him from destroying the Reapers. And to do that you just need to keep the Geths alive, because if the Geths are not affected by the red beam then 1/ that will be the evidence we need to suspect the Starchild to be lying. 2/ we'll have the ethical end choice the game is still lacking. With that ending you can condsier the Catalyst was lying, but you can also think he was telling the truth but not fully aware of the true effect of the crucible (remember the crucible isn't the Reapers' creation). Theorically that ending could satisfy both people who think that the catalyst is just saying b*******, and people who believe in his explanations.

And the last good news with these solutions is that they won't need that much work from the ME3 developpement team to be implemented in the DLC. They don't even have to modify what the Starchild said. In my opinion either of these fixes could work and provide a good compromise.


Yep, this is also what I and a couple other folks have been arguing.  You can change a great deal of the negatives in the endings with clarifications, such as the Citadel, mass relays, Harbinger, and what exactly the heck Joker was doing.  If they do it right, they can even fix most of what's wrong with the Starkid by allowing Shepard to call him on his BS.  It won't be perfect, but it will be workable, and that's really all I want at this point.

#1187
anlk92

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apieros wrote...

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

As long as the part about having to resolve the conflict between organics and synthetics remains in place, it's doomed. It completely alters the theme of the series at the worst possible time.

To expand on what's wrong with the Catalyst:

The Catalyst is presented as the solution to an inevitable problem: synthetics will always rebel, and they will always wipe out all life in the galaxy. Thus, the entire ending of the game is an attempt to solve this inevitable conflict.

On its face, this is a bull**** contention. There is nothing in the real world which indicates this to be the case. It's like asserting an inevitable genocidal conflict between ice cream and caterpillars. This makes it hard to build a game around.

But, if you want to do so anyway (in direct contradiction of reason and common sense) you have to establish that, in your own fictional world, this assertion is actually true. You have to give examples of it, in the present and the past. You have to personalize it, in the form of characters and ongoing problems.

You have to give the player chances to solve it (or smaller instances of it) and show how their attempts are futile. Keep increasing the stakes of the conflict. From personal, to planetary, to galactic.

Thus, by the end of the game, players will accept it is a real conflict, and care about solving it, and be desperate for a solution. Enter the Catalyst.

That's how you establish a central theme.

Did they do this with the "inevitable conflict between synthetics and organics"? No, not even a little bit.

Did they do it with anything? Yeah, the Reapers. See the problem?

"Inevitable blah blah" is not only false on its face, the game itself never establishes the conflict as being of critical importance. The conflict between the Reapers and galactic civilization, on the other hand, is the central conflict of the game, and it is that central conflict the ending should have resolved.

That's the problem with the entire Starchild sequence.


This is a great way to put it. It's a shame they're not going to change this part.

Well I hope someone will at least explain why they wanted to introduce this conflict at the last minute.

#1188
Evil Minion

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QUESTION: Why don't the devs come on BSN and tell us everything we want to know?

ANSWER: Because they're saving it for the C-DLC and there's a good chance they haven't even written the story yet.

They've never completely spoiled a game before and they won't start now.

Chill out.

#1189
kimuji

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There's something that could help to speed up the process of building new relays: The Conduit. This is the relay made by the Protheans between Ilos and the Citadel. After discovering Ilos galactic civilizations would have been fools if they hadn't tried to study that relay the Prothean built in their underground research facility.

#1190
zephyr2025

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kbct wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

By the way, Patrick, John, Reid myself - we were all ready to answer those kinds of questions in dialogue just like the original OP. It was the whole reason we came to PAX. In fact, a lot of people may have gotten a bit *too* much out of me ;)


If you were ready to answer those questions at PAX, then why not now while you're here... with your BSN homies?

I hope this is not the Three-Posts-And-Skedaddle routine.



Seriously.. if they can do it in person why not just make a couple statements about it for the rest of us.

#1191
Madecologist

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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Quick, someone do that one ritual dance which seems to attract devs to the forums!

Alas I only know the dance that summons supply and delivery trucks.

#1192
Evil Minion

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Oh......

and there are a gazillion ways to "fix" Ghostdweeb without having to remove him completely.

Thankfully, most writers need to have an imagination in order to become writers, soooo.....

Yeah.

#1193
apieros

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Anduin The Grey wrote...

I have no idea what you are going on about let alone why?

Really? It was said right at the top.

The Charnel Expanse wrote...

As long as the part about having to resolve the conflict between organics and synthetics remains in place, it's doomed. It completely alters the theme of the series at the worst possible time.

That's pretty clear, I think. Then I said...

apieros wrote...

To expand on what's wrong with the Catalyst:

So... Charnel Expanse said the ending was nonsense, and I endeavored to explain why. How is that sequence confusing?

I have no idea what the rest of your post meant, so I can't answer anything else you asked. That's not an insult. It's just... what you said made no sense to me. Sorry.

Modifié par apieros, 08 avril 2012 - 07:58 .


#1194
Anduin The Grey

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kimuji wrote...

There's something that could help to speed up the process of building new relays: The Conduit. This is the relay made by the Protheans between Ilos and the Citadel. After discovering Ilos galactic civilizations would have been fools if they hadn't tried to study that relay the Prothean built in their underground research facility.


We know the council visit the Prothean site, because if asked to verify with Vigil the Council (Salarian if I recall) states that the VI on Ilos was no longer functioning, what's to stop them upping and moving it somewhere safe?

#1195
Vilegrim

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Michael Gamble wrote...

By the way, Patrick, John, Reid myself - we were all ready to answer those kinds of questions in dialogue just like the original OP. It was the whole reason we came to PAX. In fact, a lot of people may have gotten a bit *too* much out of me ;)

Either way, we met hundreds of folks - and we were so happy and pleased that everyone just wanted to talk and have some great convo.

All of us are feeling pax with a sense of...renewal, and we are ready to work our butts off in the months ahead.

Hope you all enjoy resurgence! <3


So we still have to agree with a genocidal madman?

#1196
Luiginius

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@TheOptimist
Aye, adding material to certain points can really have a big impact on the overall tone.
It isn't quite as powerful as editing but done right it might give the ending a very different feel.

#1197
The Charnel Expanse

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Evil Minion wrote...

Oh......

and there are a gazillion ways to "fix" Ghostdweeb without having to remove him completely.

How many realistic options do you see that don't require REWRITING him completely?

#1198
slyborg

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LOL at asking about EDI's cam toe! Artistic integrity my foot.

#1199
Evil Minion

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The Charnel Expanse wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Oh......

and there are a gazillion ways to "fix" Ghostdweeb without having to remove him completely.

How many realistic options do you see that don't require REWRITING him completely?


A lot.

#1200
M0keys

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Vilegrim wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

By the way, Patrick, John, Reid myself - we were all ready to answer those kinds of questions in dialogue just like the original OP. It was the whole reason we came to PAX. In fact, a lot of people may have gotten a bit *too* much out of me ;)

Either way, we met hundreds of folks - and we were so happy and pleased that everyone just wanted to talk and have some great convo.

All of us are feeling pax with a sense of...renewal, and we are ready to work our butts off in the months ahead.

Hope you all enjoy resurgence! <3


So we still have to agree with a genocidal madman?


No idea. Guess we'll when when it's released. Who knows what kind of options we're going to get?