john v rambo wrote...
I like Patrick Weekes
me too.
john v rambo wrote...
I like Patrick Weekes
Joush wrote...
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Patrick Weekes seems to be very bad at math, or ignorant of basic Mass Effect lore.
Roughly a dozen light years can be crossed in a day's travel but must stop to discharge the drive core and refuel. The Milky way is 1,000 light years thick and about 120,000 light years in diameter.
Let's take the Quarians for example. They are at Earth and want to go to Rannoch in the outer rim. Given relative positions on the map, that looks like somewhere between 100,000 and 80,000 light years. Let's say it is the low end.
That's 18 years of constant travel, and even if we are very generous about their ability to discharge drive cores and collect fuel on the way, that should add at least 20% down time to the journey. So 20 years, one way, for the Quarians to get home.
Travel between clusters in Mass Effect would take years. It's no longer a casual space travel story after the end of ME3.
Of course, I'd expect them to just ignore that and have FTL work at the speed of plot. ME has always been about ignoring lore. (Every space battle in the game, for example).
Joush wrote...
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Patrick Weekes seems to be very bad at math, or ignorant of basic Mass Effect lore.
Roughly a dozen light years can be crossed in a day's travel but must stop to discharge the drive core and refuel. The Milky way is 1,000 light years thick and about 120,000 light years in diameter.
Let's take the Quarians for example. They are at Earth and want to go to Rannoch in the outer rim. Given relative positions on the map, that looks like somewhere between 100,000 and 80,000 light years. Let's say it is the low end.
That's 18 years of constant travel, and even if we are very generous about their ability to discharge drive cores and collect fuel on the way, that should add at least 20% down time to the journey. So 20 years, one way, for the Quarians to get home.
Travel between clusters in Mass Effect would take years. It's no longer a casual space travel story after the end of ME3.
Of course, I'd expect them to just ignore that and have FTL work at the speed of plot. ME has always been about ignoring lore. (Every space battle in the game, for example).
The Charnel Expanse wrote...
As long as the part about having to resolve the conflict between organics and synthetics remains in place, it's doomed. It completely alters the theme of the series at the worst possible time.AllThatJazz wrote...
MadRabbit999 wrote...
The Charnel Expanse wrote...
My question is WHY you're so resistant to retconning him out.Michael Gamble wrote...
The Charnel Expanse wrote...
Honestly, after all the valid and incisive criticism leveled at the Catalyst and his presence in the ending, why insist on keeping him around? 90% of what's wrong with the ending can be solved simply by retconning him out of existence.Michael Gamble wrote...
Cmon - give us some time with the DLC, and let's try to avoid hatin' on Patrick or Jessica:P
Why not just answer this question directly?
Is your question about whether or not we are going to retcon the catalyst? The answer is no. We've already said we are not changing the endings, but again - there are many things that we *can* do without changing them.
He damages the ending in such a fundamental way that as long as he remains in place, the ending is irredeemable.
That is not what we all believe (And we are definetely NOT the minority), that is your opinion which you are entitled to.
Agreed. I'm not a fan of the catalyst, but irrdeemable? I don't think so, as long as the confusing bits are explained better
Joush wrote...
Yes, you can totally ignore the lore in the codex and the information available to have it work however you like if you write the story. That is bad writing, and claiming the problem is trivial within the lore suggest you don't know the setting very well or you aren't good at math.
JPN17 wrote...
A lot of crap explanations in there. It's like these guys just completely forget things they've already done. Like the keepers preventing the reapers from disabling the mass relays in 3 despite the fact that Saren and the geth had no problems disabling the relays in 1. Just doesn't make any sense at all. Hard to believe the writers of the game couldn't figure this stuff out when they had over 2 years to do it.
Varus Praetor wrote...
So, crap loads of content cut due to time constraints.....pretty much as I expected.
"-What was up with the Rachni story? Why did we get railroaded?
Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen."
This pretty much sums up for me why Bioware is now an inferior storyteller compared with CD Projekt, from my perspective. They are afraid to take risks with the story that impact the gameplay. And this is why your choices do not matter. If this were a CD Projekt game players that had killed the Rachni wouldn't have to face a Macgyvered abomination just so that everyone got to experience the same content. Guess what, I don't WANT to always experience the same content. I want my choices to matter in a meaningful way. Fail BW. Utter fail.
Incredible, we agree. That solutions has many advantages:tobito113 wrote...
jakal66 wrote...
So true,so sad but so true!killnoob wrote...
put more magical explosions, problem solved. You cannot imagine that how many retakers would shut-up if you allow them to pick an option that allows Shepard to live without killing the geths or EDI.
PEOPLE ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THE ENDING IS NOT,I REPEAT, IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE!!!!STOP BANGING YOUR HEADS AGAINST CONCRETE!!!! IT IS NOT GOING TO BE CHANGED!
The thnigs is, its SO easy for Bioware to retcon the Geth destruction by claming that the highest EMS Red ending destroys only the reapers, we know that sheps synthetics stay intact and he can survive if your EMS is high enough, so its easy to apply the same logic for the Geth+EDI's body
Astralify wrote...
Varus Praetor wrote...
So, crap loads of content cut due to time constraints.....pretty much as I expected.
"-What was up with the Rachni story? Why did we get railroaded?
Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen."
This pretty much sums up for me why Bioware is now an inferior storyteller compared with CD Projekt, from my perspective. They are afraid to take risks with the story that impact the gameplay. And this is why your choices do not matter. If this were a CD Projekt game players that had killed the Rachni wouldn't have to face a Macgyvered abomination just so that everyone got to experience the same content. Guess what, I don't WANT to always experience the same content. I want my choices to matter in a meaningful way. Fail BW. Utter fail.
I agree with you.
xsdob wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
A lot of crap explanations in there. It's like these guys just completely forget things they've already done. Like the keepers preventing the reapers from disabling the mass relays in 3 despite the fact that Saren and the geth had no problems disabling the relays in 1. Just doesn't make any sense at all. Hard to believe the writers of the game couldn't figure this stuff out when they had over 2 years to do it.
When did saren actually suceed in shuting off all the relays? From what I heard, only the relay in the serpent nebula was locked, all the other relays worked fine, or else why not just say "activate the relay network" instead of "Unlock the relays around the citadel". Seems odd that they would differenciate so much.
Of course you could also be right, but that's just specualtion and semantics on both our parts. However, I would rather trust the person who shares omnipotence over the mass effect universe to handle it than just assume he's wrong and to move on.
kimuji wrote...
Incredible, we agree. That solutions has many advantages:tobito113 wrote...
jakal66 wrote...
So true,so sad but so true!killnoob wrote...
put more magical explosions, problem solved. You cannot imagine that how many retakers would shut-up if you allow them to pick an option that allows Shepard to live without killing the geths or EDI.
PEOPLE ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THE ENDING IS NOT,I REPEAT, IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE!!!!STOP BANGING YOUR HEADS AGAINST CONCRETE!!!! IT IS NOT GOING TO BE CHANGED!
The thnigs is, its SO easy for Bioware to retcon the Geth destruction by claming that the highest EMS Red ending destroys only the reapers, we know that sheps synthetics stay intact and he can survive if your EMS is high enough, so its easy to apply the same logic for the Geth+EDI's body
- very little work needed from the ME3 team, and they can keep their Starchild without altering him.
- those who were thinking that a more ethical ending was missing should be satisfied.
- it leaves enough room for interpretation to either believe the Starchild was saying crap (yes that means that if you don't like the Starchild you can basically ignore what he says) or wasn't fully aware of (or hiding) what a perfectly functioning Crucible was capable of.
We must be realistic they'll never make a new end for the game, and this is the best acceptable compromise I can think of.
Modifié par tobito113, 08 avril 2012 - 10:19 .
JPN17 wrote...
xsdob wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
A lot of crap explanations in there. It's like these guys just completely forget things they've already done. Like the keepers preventing the reapers from disabling the mass relays in 3 despite the fact that Saren and the geth had no problems disabling the relays in 1. Just doesn't make any sense at all. Hard to believe the writers of the game couldn't figure this stuff out when they had over 2 years to do it.
When did saren actually suceed in shuting off all the relays? From what I heard, only the relay in the serpent nebula was locked, all the other relays worked fine, or else why not just say "activate the relay network" instead of "Unlock the relays around the citadel". Seems odd that they would differenciate so much.
Of course you could also be right, but that's just specualtion and semantics on both our parts. However, I would rather trust the person who shares omnipotence over the mass effect universe to handle it than just assume he's wrong and to move on.
You're right the only relay in game to be confirmed that was locked was the serpent nebula relay (don't know if it has a name). Still though the fact remains that they were able to disable it. I can't see any explanation for why the reapers couldn't have done the same with the Charon relay. Why would the keepers do nothing to stop Saren 3 years earlier, but all of the sudden prevent the reapers in ME3? Seems like a huge plot hole to me.
After ME2 I would have agreed with you, but after seeing what went on in ME3 (particularly in regard to the ending) and the fact that Deception was released with praise, I have no reason to trust that the writers of the game have any respect for the established lore of Mass Effect. And that's very sad.
xsdob wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
xsdob wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
A lot of crap explanations in there. It's like these guys just completely forget things they've already done. Like the keepers preventing the reapers from disabling the mass relays in 3 despite the fact that Saren and the geth had no problems disabling the relays in 1. Just doesn't make any sense at all. Hard to believe the writers of the game couldn't figure this stuff out when they had over 2 years to do it.
When did saren actually suceed in shuting off all the relays? From what I heard, only the relay in the serpent nebula was locked, all the other relays worked fine, or else why not just say "activate the relay network" instead of "Unlock the relays around the citadel". Seems odd that they would differenciate so much.
Of course you could also be right, but that's just specualtion and semantics on both our parts. However, I would rather trust the person who shares omnipotence over the mass effect universe to handle it than just assume he's wrong and to move on.
You're right the only relay in game to be confirmed that was locked was the serpent nebula relay (don't know if it has a name). Still though the fact remains that they were able to disable it. I can't see any explanation for why the reapers couldn't have done the same with the Charon relay. Why would the keepers do nothing to stop Saren 3 years earlier, but all of the sudden prevent the reapers in ME3? Seems like a huge plot hole to me.
After ME2 I would have agreed with you, but after seeing what went on in ME3 (particularly in regard to the ending) and the fact that Deception was released with praise, I have no reason to trust that the writers of the game have any respect for the established lore of Mass Effect. And that's very sad.
Who knows, for all we know the keepers have been secretly being worked on by the council to prevent them from doing what they did when saren attacked. Heck, there could even be a factor in that where if you helped chorban get the keeper data, that it made reprograming the keeprs to no longer allow the relays to shut down a lot simpler and allowed resources to be allocated elsewhere, netting a 30 war asset boost, otherwise you don't get the war asset boost but the keepers were still reprogramed.
Michael Gamble wrote...
Is your question about whether or not we are going to retcon the catalyst? The answer is no. We've already said we are not changing the endings, but again - there are many things that we *can* do without changing them.
xsdob wrote...
Astralify wrote...
Varus Praetor wrote...
So, crap loads of content cut due to time constraints.....pretty much as I expected.
"-What was up with the Rachni story? Why did we get railroaded?
Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen."
This pretty much sums up for me why Bioware is now an inferior storyteller compared with CD Projekt, from my perspective. They are afraid to take risks with the story that impact the gameplay. And this is why your choices do not matter. If this were a CD Projekt game players that had killed the Rachni wouldn't have to face a Macgyvered abomination just so that everyone got to experience the same content. Guess what, I don't WANT to always experience the same content. I want my choices to matter in a meaningful way. Fail BW. Utter fail.
I agree with you.
I really miss the days when games were judged by how much fun a person had and not how bold their decision making was.
JPN17 wrote...
xsdob wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
xsdob wrote...
JPN17 wrote...
A lot of crap explanations in there. It's like these guys just completely forget things they've already done. Like the keepers preventing the reapers from disabling the mass relays in 3 despite the fact that Saren and the geth had no problems disabling the relays in 1. Just doesn't make any sense at all. Hard to believe the writers of the game couldn't figure this stuff out when they had over 2 years to do it.
When did saren actually suceed in shuting off all the relays? From what I heard, only the relay in the serpent nebula was locked, all the other relays worked fine, or else why not just say "activate the relay network" instead of "Unlock the relays around the citadel". Seems odd that they would differenciate so much.
Of course you could also be right, but that's just specualtion and semantics on both our parts. However, I would rather trust the person who shares omnipotence over the mass effect universe to handle it than just assume he's wrong and to move on.
You're right the only relay in game to be confirmed that was locked was the serpent nebula relay (don't know if it has a name). Still though the fact remains that they were able to disable it. I can't see any explanation for why the reapers couldn't have done the same with the Charon relay. Why would the keepers do nothing to stop Saren 3 years earlier, but all of the sudden prevent the reapers in ME3? Seems like a huge plot hole to me.
After ME2 I would have agreed with you, but after seeing what went on in ME3 (particularly in regard to the ending) and the fact that Deception was released with praise, I have no reason to trust that the writers of the game have any respect for the established lore of Mass Effect. And that's very sad.
Who knows, for all we know the keepers have been secretly being worked on by the council to prevent them from doing what they did when saren attacked. Heck, there could even be a factor in that where if you helped chorban get the keeper data, that it made reprograming the keeprs to no longer allow the relays to shut down a lot simpler and allowed resources to be allocated elsewhere, netting a 30 war asset boost, otherwise you don't get the war asset boost but the keepers were still reprogramed.
And it took you what, 20 seconds to come up with that? Makes me wonder why the Bioware writers in 2 years couldn't come up with something. That's one of the things that bothers me the most is that most of the problems I have with the plot holes in ME3 could have been explained away with one dialogue line or one line of text. But apparently that was too difficult for Bioware. Hopefully the extended cut has a lot of answers that make sense. I'm not holding my breath though.
JPN17 wrote...
After ME2 I would have agreed with you, but after seeing what went on in ME3 (particularly in regard to the ending) and the fact that Deception was released with praise, I have no reason to trust that the writers of the game have any respect for the established lore of Mass Effect. And that's very sad.

Valorefane Dragonwinter wrote...
Weekes holding three folders of fan feedback, per Merizan.
Myrmedus wrote...
xsdob wrote...
Astralify wrote...
Varus Praetor wrote...
So, crap loads of content cut due to time constraints.....pretty much as I expected.
"-What was up with the Rachni story? Why did we get railroaded?
Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen."
This pretty much sums up for me why Bioware is now an inferior storyteller compared with CD Projekt, from my perspective. They are afraid to take risks with the story that impact the gameplay. And this is why your choices do not matter. If this were a CD Projekt game players that had killed the Rachni wouldn't have to face a Macgyvered abomination just so that everyone got to experience the same content. Guess what, I don't WANT to always experience the same content. I want my choices to matter in a meaningful way. Fail BW. Utter fail.
I agree with you.
I really miss the days when games were judged by how much fun a person had and not how bold their decision making was.
Have you ever considered that when purchasing games like ME those two things are one and the same?
Modifié par xsdob, 08 avril 2012 - 10:51 .